"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Hellspawn28
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:19 am

Episode 1 made it clear that six months has past since Buu. So Videl having a baby would be a major plot hole unless they have Videl have a miscarriage in another episode (I doubt that they will).
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by GeeRod » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:35 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:Episode 1 made it clear that six months has past since Buu. So Videl having a baby would be a major plot hole unless they have Videl have a miscarriage in another episode (I doubt that they will).
The subs I watched it said that some time has passed, it didn't specifically said how much it was. And the 6 months was for the Dragon Balls being used because of Boo...
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Mewzard » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:25 am

This is why I wanted official subs, so we could have some certainty (and ensured quality for that matter). We'll have to wait until one of Kanzenshuu's delightful translators (or someone else who is fluent in Japanese) to clarify that particular line of dialogue.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Araki » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:15 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:Episode 1 made it clear that six months has past since Buu.
Again, that's not what it said. GeeRod is right, the narration says they made the wish six months after Buu, and after that, "some time passed".
It never specified where exactly the timeline stands now. But of course, people will spread misconceptions based on dubious subs or misleading promotional info. The manga adaptation didn't help, either...
Ushabtis wrote:Lol i don't remember that, but in all honesty I don't really want a baby character running around in super.
If Pan arrives, i think she'll most likely stay like baby Trunks was, barely relevant in the background.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Mnich » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:32 am

About dragon balls' reactivation. Don't you think Bulma could just ask Dende to reactivate them faster, because of her birthday? He's Kami, I guess he could that without trouble.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:39 am

Mnich wrote:About dragon balls' reactivation. Don't you think Bulma could just ask Dende to reactivate them faster, because of her birthday? He's Kami, I guess he could that without trouble.
He should very much be able to, but this is probably going to be set in the era Pan was born anyways. It seems like an obvious set-up to it, what with Gohan and Videl pointing out how they are married(I'd love to be proven wrong).

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Marco Polo » Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:39 am

I think it's 6 months + some time. Could easily just be the same date as BoG.

However I also think that they're purposely keeping it vague to avoid inconsistencies and difficulties in the writing. We know for a fact that they're keeping Gohan's studies a mystery (via the "Difficult Book" gag) so I wouldn't put it past them.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:08 pm

Episode 1 had people going up to Mr. Satan taking pictures and asking for interviews. It does sound like a few months have past since Buu in Super.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Weedity » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:21 pm

Okay correct me if I am wrong here, but everyone is complaining about this six month thing. So, if the Boo saga happened during the World Tournament that would take place during May, as usual. Bulma was born on August 18th. So, if this took place JUST six months after Boo, we would have missed her Birthday. This has to be at least a year later....

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Captain Space » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:20 pm

Weedity wrote:Okay correct me if I am wrong here, but everyone is complaining about this six month thing. So, if the Boo saga happened during the World Tournament that would take place during May, as usual. Bulma was born on August 18th. So, if this took place JUST six months after Boo, we would have missed her Birthday. This has to be at least a year later....
Or the writers forgot/weren't really considering those dates.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Noah » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:58 pm

Captain Space wrote:
Weedity wrote:Okay correct me if I am wrong here, but everyone is complaining about this six month thing. So, if the Boo saga happened during the World Tournament that would take place during May, as usual. Bulma was born on August 18th. So, if this took place JUST six months after Boo, we would have missed her Birthday. This has to be at least a year later....
Or the writers forgot/weren't really considering those dates.

And I don't feel like they would care about it, unfortunately
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:06 pm

I already mentioned this somewhere in the Super section, that her birthday was only revealed in a relatively early issue of Jump containing Dragon Balls run. The fact that it hasn't been printed anywhere else since may very well mean that they aren't aware of it and won't take it into consideration when writing. Not that the current Toriyama would care anyway. Plus people don't always hold parties on the same day as their birth. I've been to a few that were months before or after because it worked out better for the venue or for guests they wanted.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by goku the krump dancer » Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:44 pm

Seeing as though we're most likely getting an entire episode dedicated to the Pilaf shenanigans, I hope its funnier this time around.. Though I will say after watching BoG in english most of the gang's segment was a lot funnier… maybe its the language barrier that prevents his jokes to fully come across.. or maybe its just that I haven't watched The Original DB in Japanese yet aside from Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle so I don't really have a grasp of Pilaf's persona in that language. Cuz I don't have this problem with anyone else.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:47 am

goku the krump dancer wrote:Seeing as though we're most likely getting an entire episode dedicated to the Pilaf shenanigans, I hope its funnier this time around.. Though I will say after watching BoG in english most of the gang's segment was a lot funnier… maybe its the language barrier that prevents his jokes to fully come across.. or maybe its just that I haven't watched The Original DB in Japanese yet aside from Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle so I don't really have a grasp of Pilaf's persona in that language. Cuz I don't have this problem with anyone else.
Don't know if everybody else, or the majority of you, feel the same, but back in the early 2000s and throughout that decade I was an intense critic of America's version of DBZ, especially due to the change in the music, change in the dialogue, mixing of episodes and reducing their number, childish exchanges of speech, etc., etc. I mean, it was like watching an entirely different show, except for the original animation itself. I still hold that view, although not so strongly, especially after FUNImation decided to partially keep the original BGM, and I believe that it's just absolutely necessary to keep the original Japanese music in DB and DBZ, including that of the opening and closing themes, to be able to achieve and comprehend Dragonball's entire fantastic atmosphere.

As in almost everything, the original is the best. From over a decade ago I refrained from watching DB or DBZ in any other language than in Japanese, and I had access to a number of dubs, especially that of my own country (Portugal), and as a result of years and years of watching the original Japanese episodes over and over on an almost daily basis while keeping an eye on the subtitles, by now I pretty much don't need any subtitles to understand what's being said, most likely like most of you. As a consequence of that, I've also came to learn quite a large chunk of Japanese without even realizing it.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Captain Space » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:52 am

MaGyunia wrote: by now I pretty much don't need any subtitles to understand what's being said, most likely like most of you.
I think you severely overestimate most of us XD
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:11 pm

Has anyone thought about/made a comparison between Beerus as an antagonist and the past villains from DB and DBZ in terms of the seriousness of the environment surrounding them?

Obviously, taking the movies (Brolly, #13, Turles, Slug, Cooler, Janenba, etc.) and other non-canon villains out of the picture, we're reduced to the main villains of all of DB's later arcs and the entirety of DBZ's arcs: Piccolo Daimao (Piccolo Daimao arc), Piccolo (Piccolo Jr. arc), Vegeta (Saiya-jin arc), Freeza (Freeza arc), #17 and #18 (Jinzouningen arc), Cell (Cell arc) and Majin Buu (Majin Buu arc). One of the things, perhaps the most important one, which made Dragonball so fantastic was not only the character development and background, the interactions between characters, the values of friendship/goodness/protection presented in the series or even the insane and mind-boggling fighting, but the entire atmosphere of hopelessness, despair, seriousness and violence. After so many years of creative inactivity by Toriyama, between 1996 (last episodes of DBZ) and 2013 (BoG), and taking into account the entire new audience DBZ is intended to conquer just like it did the ones in their 30's back in the 80's and 90's, and after having come up with pretty much every potential idea or concept for villains, events, fights, stages and characters, Toriyama decided to go down the road of presenting us with an entirely new concept for an antagonist (and that's the most appropriate term to describe Beerus, as he certainly cannot be deemed "evil" or a "villain").

Sure enough, if we hadn't seen BoG or if it never existed, and we were now being introduced to Beerus/Whis for the very first time in these first episodes of DBSuper, the first three episodes provided us with scenes which could be deemed chilling or in the very least mysterious, indicating an upcoming extremely powerful antagonist was on his way to meet Goku and the others and cause trouble.

However, even so, even if you were by now anticipating major trouble on Earth for Goku and the others against Beerus, you certainly didn't see Vegeta, Freeza, Cell or Majin Buu/Super Buu/Kid Buu in this light. Piccolo Daimao was the embodiment of evil with psychopathic and sadistic tendencies. Freeza was presented as a galactic overlord with a (confirmed) reputation of enslaving, torturing and killing entire races of beings, conquering planets, committing genocides, murdering people just because they're standing there, and was pretty much the very definition of evil + egocentrism + narcissism. He was a sadistic maniac who went as far as to kill Vegeta, Dende and even violently murdering Goku's best friend, Krillin, right in front of his eyes, by merely and literally blowing him up. Vegeta was slightly paranoid, ruthless and evil, a killing machine, arrogantly proud, a smaller version of Freeza (having been molded/influenced by the latter), and he murdered his long-time companion just because of failing to execute someone. Cell was presented to us as a huge monster who absorbed the living shit out of millions of people through his tail, had absolutely no regard to the value of life in general and eventually became convinced of his own perfection and power, going as far as to state that "it was actually an honor to become a fraction his power" when considering his victims. Majin Buu, in his fat version, was presented as a child-like chubby magical beast who in a matter of minutes proceeded to partially blind Dabura, the King of the Demon Realm, and knocking him out with a brutal kick, then he beat Kaioshin to a pulp and blew Gohan away with a massive shockwave, and ultimately survived intact to Vegeta's life-ending suicidal explosion which was meant to vaporize him, rendering the move totally pointless. After that he went on to kill and eat millions of people. In his Super Buu variation, he annihilated the ENTIRE population of Earth after counting each and every one of the humans, with a single martial arts move, after having been suggested to do so by Piccolo. Kid Buu was a sociopath whose only purpose was to cause huge volumes of destruction by annihilating entire planets and solar systems with his massive, huge power, for no reason other than because it was just fun for him.

After these descriptions, can you really picture Piccolo Daimao, Vegeta, Freeza, Cell or Kid Buu talking politely, having a laid-back attitude, providing the viewers with a few briefly comic lines and appearing naked while taking an innocent shower, like Beerus?

This has nothing to do at all with power itself. Piccolo Daimao is tens of times less powerful by virtually anyone in the Saiya-jin arc, Vegeta is tens of times less powerful than Freeza during the Freeza arc, Freeza was easily defeated by Mirai no Trunks, who couldn't handle #17 and #18, who in turn were no match for second-stage Cell, let alone his perfect form; Perfect Cell, on the other hand, was no match for Super Saiya-jin 2 Gohan, who in turn was weaker than Super Saiya-jin 2 Vegeta when he fought Majin Buu. Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku was stronger than the fat version of Majin Buu and the first version of Super Buu. Ultimate Gohan is about as strong as SSJ3 Goku, who nonetheless was weaker than the two strongest versions of Super Buu, who was nowhere near Vegitto, who was about twice as strong as Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku/Ultimate Gohan.

If we hadn't even seen BoG or heard a single thing about it, we would probably by now be mysteriously anticipating an extremely powerful YET AMUSING antagonist to the good guys back on Earth. In the process of revitalization of Dragonball, with Kai, the 2008 special, BoG and Fukkatsu no F, and now with DBSuper, the entire atmosphere lacks the seriousness/darkness/violence which was present throughout the last two arcs of DB and the entirety of DBZ. Whether that's a good thing or not, it's subject to debate. I personally am a Dragonball maniac because of a number of factors, but the degree or amount of violence, desperate circumstances, drastic transformations and mind-blowing fights was what made the show so unrealistically fantastic. If you add an extremely well-developed storyline, a solid and intricate plot and more-than-interesting character backgrounds and interactions to it, you end up with what DBZ was.

I'm not asking you if you think DBSuper will live up to that. I'm saying that, in my view, it's not supposed to live up to it, that's not the point anymore. We won't be getting murders, blood and guts, violence and hopelessly dramatic circumstances like we did before. Those of us who were present in the 80's and 90's and followed each step of DB and DBZ as it happened about 20 years ago can't (and shouldn't) be expecting that. We need to view DBSuper and all it contains and has to offer us as Dragonball just the same, but with an entire different perspective to it, so that we can first view it, then accept it and then add it to the rest of Dragonball history, which is pretty much just untouchable. This is the only way not to be disappointed with ANY aspect of DBSuper, as a hardcore DBZ fan. Hopefully most, or indeed all of us will be capable of that.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by Captain Space » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:19 pm

To be fair, BoG and RF contained transformations, desperate situations, near-death experiences, and so far eight and a half planets have been destroyed in Super. I'm not arguing that this isn't overall more light-hearted than, say, the Freeza arc or whatever, it certainly is that, but you might be overstating it somewhat--it's a mix of silly and serious and always has been. Even the most serious arcs were not without their comedic moments.
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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by MaGyunia » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:32 pm

Captain Space wrote:To be fair, BoG and RF contained transformations, desperate situations, near-death experiences, and so far eight and a half planets have been destroyed in Super. I'm not arguing that this isn't overall more light-hearted than, say, the Freeza arc or whatever, it certainly is that, but you might be overstating it somewhat--it's a mix of silly and serious and always has been. Even the most serious arcs were not without their comedic moments.
Sure thing, even Freeza, the pinnacle of evil and desperate seriousness, had his moment(s) of comic relief (when he witnessed the Ginyu Tokusentai performing and when his tail was bit by Goku), but can you really compare, for example, the entire setting in which Raditz shows up and gets drilled a hole through his chest alongside his brother by a piercing technique, spouting blood after that, or Nappa taking Tenshinhan's arm off with a brutal attack, or Freeza literally blowing up Krillin or murdering defenseless Namek-sei-jins (including Dende), or Cell, as a monster, absorbing/killing MILLIONS of people through his tail and then proceeding to vaporize a number of islands full of people in search for #18, to ANY of the events shown until now in DBSuper, or in the 2008 special, Episode of Bardock, BoG or Fukkatsu no F? The closest I can think of when I rewind to any of these movies/specials was when Beerus lost his temper and proceeded to beat the shit out of everyone and then was about to destroy the Earth, or when Bardock loses it and becomes Super Saiya-jin, or (especially) when Freeza finally decides to destroy the Earth and actually kill Vegeta and pretty much everyone on Earth.

Sure, there's seriousness and silliness just like there always was (thankfully) throughout DB (especially) and DBZ to a much lesser degree, but what I'm trying to say is that the entire atmosphere surrounding DBSuper, not to mention BoG or the 2008 special, was much smoother and, in a certain way, "inoffensive" when compared to what we witnessed throughout the later stages of DB and the entirety of DBZ.

Anyway, they're doing an extremely good job at presenting Beerus (which they had already done so in BoG, lol) as a combination of extreme, insane power and laid-backness and laughability. It's really the first time we've seen anyone like this. He's not a villain, he's not evil, he's not good, he's not insane, he's not killing people just for the fun of it, he won't join sides with the "good guys" either. He's just Beerus, Hakaishin Beerus. You can really tell Toriyama took his (well-deserved) time after years of creative inactivity towards Dragonball to put some real thought into creating this character. Everybody who loves Beerus, which includes me, doesn't say so just because he's the newest thing/antagonist. He really has an attractive combination of extreme power and fun to his character. There's nothing NOT to be liked about him.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by LightBing » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:29 pm

I think BoG arc will be extended with Champa insertion, maybe to display Vegeta turning SSG and set the ground for the Universe 6 plot. FnF can be placed far into the future.

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Re: Official Announcement Thread & Discussion

Post by sintzu » Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:36 pm

LightBing wrote:I think BoG arc will be extended with Champa insertion, maybe to display Vegeta turning SSG and set the ground for the Universe 6 plot. FnF can be placed far into the future.
I know this probably won't happen but I'd like them to save Ssgssj for the u6 arc and have Vegeta use Ssjg against Freeza.
Last edited by sintzu on Tue Jul 21, 2015 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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