"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:06 pm

Yuji wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:53 am Assuming they intend on adapting the movies and the manga arcs, it would be a lot of episodes before any new content.

8-12 for Broly
12 for Moro
8-12 for Granolah
8-12 for Superhero
The movie retellings, if they actually happen, could be done in less episodes. I mean, Broly is basically just one big fight, and some Freeza, Bardock and Paragus, 10 episodes sounds like too much. They have enough material to buy as much time as they like with whatever arc they choose to focus on.
Moro seems to need more episodes than 12, though. As long as they don't trim down anything.
The Granny arc probably 10 episodes, it's pretty straightforward and several chapters seem to have tons of filler just to get to the cliffhanger in time.

In 40 episodes they probably can cover movies and manga arcs.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Yuji » Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:09 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:06 pm
Yuji wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:53 am Assuming they intend on adapting the movies and the manga arcs, it would be a lot of episodes before any new content.

8-12 for Broly
12 for Moro
8-12 for Granolah
8-12 for Superhero
The movie retellings, if they actually happen, could be done in less episodes. I mean, Broly is basically just one big fight, and some Freeza, Bardock and Paragus, 10 episodes sounds like too much. They have enough material to buy as much time as they like with whatever arc they choose to focus on.
Moro seems to need more episodes than 12, though. As long as they don't trim down anything.
The Granny arc probably 10 episodes, it's pretty straightforward and several chapters seem to have tons of filler just to get to the cliffhanger in time.

In 40 episodes they probably can cover movies and manga arcs.
They could be, but the Super retellings were 14 episodes each. If Broly and Superhero retellings last over 8 episodes I would want at least some of the cut original script content.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:37 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:06 pm
Yuji wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:53 am Assuming they intend on adapting the movies and the manga arcs, it would be a lot of episodes before any new content.

8-12 for Broly
12 for Moro
8-12 for Granolah
8-12 for Superhero
The movie retellings, if they actually happen, could be done in less episodes. I mean, Broly is basically just one big fight, and some Freeza, Bardock and Paragus, 10 episodes sounds like too much. They have enough material to buy as much time as they like with whatever arc they choose to focus on.
Moro seems to need more episodes than 12, though. As long as they don't trim down anything.
The Granny arc probably 10 episodes, it's pretty straightforward and several chapters seem to have tons of filler just to get to the cliffhanger in time.

In 40 episodes they probably can cover movies and manga arcs.
Yeah, there's no way the Moro arc will only get a quarter of the amount of episodes that the ToP arc got. (The ToP arc was covered in episodes 77-131. 55 episodes total. Casual reminder that Vegito vs Zamasu is the halfway point of the anime.) I can't see the retelling phase taking less than a year, personally.

I agree that a retelling of DBS Broly would be short, absolutely. Roughly 8 episodes should be enough to cover everything in pretty high detail.
Moving on, though, you could probably give the Moro arc 26 episodes without it feeling too stretched out. 2 episodes would probably already have passed by the time we'd get to that cliffhanger where Goku sensed out Moro's energy and Moro noticed it, and by the time "Grand Supreme Kai Buu" would be done fighting Moro, we'd probably be on episode 6 or 7. Then there's all the training stuff, and then all the Earth stuff with the Z Fighter segments and the bandits, and then Moro, Moro + 7-3, Moro + Merus, Moro + Earth, the ending... It's easily 20+ episodes' worth of content all in all in my opinion. If Broly got 8, then maybe Moro can get 22, for a total of 30 episodes between them.
For the Granolah arc, I think it'd be shorter than the Moro arc, since so many chapters have been spent on a pretty small number of fights, which is content Toei would probably burn through really quickly. We'll have to see how it ends, obviously, but up to where we are now with Goku vs Gas, I think roughly 12 episodes should be enough, and the full arc might be something like 15 episodes, depending on the ending.
I'm honestly not even gonna try to tackle DBSSH at this point, even hypothetically. We just don't know anywhere near enough about the movie and its plot. We don't even know if Toyotaro's next arc will be before or after the movie yet. Without any info, I guess we can just say 10 episodes as an incredibly rough estimate?

So from all that we'd get 8+22+15+10 = 55 episodes, not counting any slice-of-life content between the arcs which could totally be made. And that still leaves out that next manga arc that we don't know about yet. However, the majority of it would be content that's never been animated before, so I think it'd be more or less fine to let the anime spend 1-1.5 years on retellings before going into "new territory".
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by KentMan » Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:23 pm

What is it with fans and retellings?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by kemuri07 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:20 am

PrinceVegetto wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:47 pm

I really think it was an odd move to have the series go on hiatus at its height of popularity in 2018...
It wouldn't surprise me that a big reason why Super is on hiatus is because of the development cycle of the anime. With the exception of One Piece, the days where you can pump out 300+ episodes within a weekly basis is long dead. And there are plenty of evidence that it clearly took a toll on the Super anime adaptation. Yeah, everyone remember's Goku turning UI or the finale...but man we tend to forget how trash that show looked, especially in comparison to its contemporaries.

The smart play is to take influence from Jujutsu Kaisen or Kimetsu no Yaiba and release smaller seasons that are lean and jam packed with Sakuga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:46 am

How can people speculate how many eps. the manga arcs will have when we don't even know how Toei will adapt them (if they do)? Super anime was never an adaptation of the manga, but of Toriyama's bullet point notes. For all we know, they could extend both arcs by adding new events and fights. Like how they added a third trip to the future in the FT arc instead of just two. Or how they gave more spotlight to characters like Anilaza and made entire fights for them. Viceversa, they could cut down some of the content of those arcs (although very unlikely, since an anime series always expands on what a manga did).

If Super anime was an adaptation of the manga from the start then it would be easy to speculate how they would adapt things, but Super anime was never this.

I also would not be surprised at all if the Super anime simply replaced the Moro and Granolah arcs with new arcs Toei made. The base plot points introduced after Broly movie, like Ultra Ego, could remain. But the arcs storywise/thematically would be something else entirely. So for example Vegeta would not get Ultra Ego in an arc like the Granolah arc, but in an arc in Universe 6's Planet Sadala. Like it or not, this was a plot point set up in the anime (and not in the manga), of Vegeta wanting to visit the U6's Saiyans, so Toei could 100% go this route. I am open to anything and I wouldn't exclude any outcome.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:37 am

SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:46 am

I also would not be surprised at all if the Super anime simply replaced the Moro and Granolah arcs with new arcs Toei made. The base plot points introduced after Broly movie, like Ultra Ego, could remain. But the arcs storywise/thematically would be something else entirely. So for example Vegeta would not get Ultra Ego in an arc like the Granolah arc, but in an arc in Universe 6's Planet Sadala. Like it or not, this was a plot point set up in the anime (and not in the manga), of Vegeta wanting to visit the U6's Saiyans, so Toei could 100% go this route. I am open to anything and I wouldn't exclude any outcome.
I would be super surprised if Toei don't use the manga as a reference this time. It would for sure be the cheaper option for them. And Toei is a cheap, greedy company

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:57 am

sangofe wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:37 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:46 am

I also would not be surprised at all if the Super anime simply replaced the Moro and Granolah arcs with new arcs Toei made. The base plot points introduced after Broly movie, like Ultra Ego, could remain. But the arcs storywise/thematically would be something else entirely. So for example Vegeta would not get Ultra Ego in an arc like the Granolah arc, but in an arc in Universe 6's Planet Sadala. Like it or not, this was a plot point set up in the anime (and not in the manga), of Vegeta wanting to visit the U6's Saiyans, so Toei could 100% go this route. I am open to anything and I wouldn't exclude any outcome.
I would be super surprised if Toei don't use the manga as a reference this time. It would for sure be the cheaper option for them. And Toei is a cheap, greedy company
Maybe so, but I expect them to come up with original arcs too. Maybe in-between the Moro and Granolah arc.

So for example at the end of the Moro arc, instead of going straight to the Granolah arc, they can place an original arc (in Planet Sadala?) there. It is stated that several months passed between the Moro arc and Granolah arc so they can fit some original story arcs in that time span:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:14 am

What's this fixation of having every little story happen before EoZ? don't we have enough already?

We are finally going past this rift after SH, there are new arcs coming, so why would anybody want these stories, or other stories for that matter, to happen between arcs and not after the end of the original manga? They have milked that decade dry, just let it rest.

Besides, Sadala would be much more interesting (if at all) with more saiyans like Goten, Trunks, Pan tagging along.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:40 am

Koitsukai wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:14 am What's this fixation of having every little story happen before EoZ? don't we have enough already?
Not really, No, because there are still stories that can be told in that time frame.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:00 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:40 am
Koitsukai wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:14 am What's this fixation of having every little story happen before EoZ? don't we have enough already?
Not really, No, because there are still stories that can be told in that time frame.
9 major events happening in less than 4 years time is plain ridiculous as is.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by kemuri07 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:14 pm

sangofe wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 8:37 am
SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:46 am

I also would not be surprised at all if the Super anime simply replaced the Moro and Granolah arcs with new arcs Toei made. The base plot points introduced after Broly movie, like Ultra Ego, could remain. But the arcs storywise/thematically would be something else entirely. So for example Vegeta would not get Ultra Ego in an arc like the Granolah arc, but in an arc in Universe 6's Planet Sadala. Like it or not, this was a plot point set up in the anime (and not in the manga), of Vegeta wanting to visit the U6's Saiyans, so Toei could 100% go this route. I am open to anything and I wouldn't exclude any outcome.
I would be super surprised if Toei don't use the manga as a reference this time. It would for sure be the cheaper option for them. And Toei is a cheap, greedy company
It's not really about being cheep or greedy..it makes sense. Why would you split your audience by having two separate versions of a story, when it makes more sense to use the manga as the foundation?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Krillin1994 » Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:53 pm

mute_proxy wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:00 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:40 am
Koitsukai wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:14 am What's this fixation of having every little story happen before EoZ? don't we have enough already?
Not really, No, because there are still stories that can be told in that time frame.
9 major events happening in less than 4 years time is plain ridiculous as is.
Covid, George Floyd murder sparking BLM movement around the world, US senate takeover, Ukranian Crisis. 4 major events there in two years.........

But in terms of Dragonball it would feel far more refreshing to move beyond EoZ.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Feb 25, 2022 7:51 pm

Krillin1994 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:53 pm
mute_proxy wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:00 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 10:40 am

Not really, No, because there are still stories that can be told in that time frame.
9 major events happening in less than 4 years time is plain ridiculous as is.
Covid, George Floyd murder sparking BLM movement around the world, US senate takeover, Ukranian Crisis. 4 major events there in two years.........

But in terms of Dragonball it would feel far more refreshing to move beyond EoZ.
The attempted genocide of trans people (especially children as of late) in the US is also a big event.

Anyway, I don't know why we're paying attention to what we learned about the ten year gap from the original comic. Of course things will be ignored to make a new story twenty years later.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by PrinceVegetto » Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:27 pm

Do you think Toriyama always had a plan on how to tie in Beerus, Whis, and all the new characters introduced in Super into EoZ? Or do you think he just makes stuff up as he goes and doesn't think about it thoroughly?

I honestly don't see how everything that's happened in Super can lead to Goku being excited to fight Uub in EoZ given he has fought beings a million times stronger than Majin Buu.

I think they'll either retcon EoZ or pull a deus ex machina and have something super terrible happen that causes the Zenos to step in and alter history to prevent Goku from ever meeting Beerus. The latter is unlikely since that would make all of Super a waste of time but I guess anything's possible...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Mar 09, 2022 8:03 am

PrinceVegetto wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:27 pm Do you think Toriyama always had a plan on how to tie in Beerus, Whis, and all the new characters introduced in Super into EoZ? Or do you think he just makes stuff up as he goes and doesn't think about it thoroughly?

I honestly don't see how everything that's happened in Super can lead to Goku being excited to fight Uub in EoZ given he has fought beings a million times stronger than Majin Buu.

I think they'll either retcon EoZ or pull a deus ex machina and have something super terrible happen that causes the Zenos to step in and alter history to prevent Goku from ever meeting Beerus. The latter is unlikely since that would make all of Super a waste of time but I guess anything's possible...
I dunno, it kinda seems like, although not as fully planned out, Toriyama (or Toyotaro and Toei) had this kind of idea of subtly developing Goku into the kind of character who would be the teacher for once and not the student.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:29 pm

PrinceVegetto wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:27 pm Do you think Toriyama always had a plan on how to tie in Beerus, Whis, and all the new characters introduced in Super into EoZ? Or do you think he just makes stuff up as he goes and doesn't think about it thoroughly?

I honestly don't see how everything that's happened in Super can lead to Goku being excited to fight Uub in EoZ given he has fought beings a million times stronger than Majin Buu.

I think they'll either retcon EoZ or pull a deus ex machina and have something super terrible happen that causes the Zenos to step in and alter history to prevent Goku from ever meeting Beerus. The latter is unlikely since that would make all of Super a waste of time but I guess anything's possible...
It's not about fighting Oob right there. Is about fighting him once he's gotten as strong as he can get that excites Goku.

Just look how strong Freeza got after training. Pure Boo is over 100 times stronger than Namek Freeza without any training. Oob's potential is enormous.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kakarotto92 » Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:35 am

You'll have new content in the manga after the Granolah arc.

As for the anime, the Moro and Granolah arc adaptations are also "new content". I really hope the Moro arc gets as much episodes as the Universe Survival training arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:08 pm

I think it would be a waste to speed run hypothetical manga arcs adaptations. TOEI isn't exactly great with filler-esque episodes (although there are some good slice of life stuff in the anime), but there's a lot they could add to these arcs. I would love to see more of Vegeta's training with Pybara, Yardrat, Goku's interactions with Merus in the RosaT, Moro with his goons across the universe, and even Z Fighters' training. Having a complete arc to adapt means that they could really dive deeper in certain aspects, even if it's not that essential for the plot (the arc is fine without these things but it would be good to see them).

But I don't think there's a need for movie retellings unless we got exclusive / never seen before plot points. Broly's 3 hour script may have good things do adapt. Otherwise it's just a worse adaptation with worse animation and it means more work for the animators (when they could be working with new things)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:13 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 12:08 pm I think it would be a waste to speed run hypothetical manga arcs adaptations. TOEI isn't exactly great with filler-esque episodes (although there are some good slice of life stuff in the anime), but there's a lot they could add to these arcs. I would love to see more of Vegeta's training with Pybara, Yardrat, Goku's interactions with Merus in the RosaT, Moro with his goons across the universe, and even Z Fighters' training. Having a complete arc to adapt means that they could really dive deeper in certain aspects, even if it's not that essential for the plot (the arc is fine without these things but it would be good to see them).

But I don't think there's a need for movie retellings unless we got exclusive / never seen before plot points. Broly's 3 hour script may have good things do adapt. Otherwise it's just a worse adaptation with worse animation and it means more work for the animators (when they could be working with new things)
Toei's selected freelance writers and their series directors made good cartoon series-original episodes for Dragon Ball Super. Furthermore, we know that the studio is capable of creating original cartoon series of their own as evidence by PreCure or even just the tone and feel of the 2018 GeGeGe no Kitarou adaption or Tiger Mask W. The idea that the production staff of the next Dragon Ball animated series should not include their own ideas in the series that they themselves are slaving away to create is preposterous.
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