"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Skar]

I just hope Toriyama does write a fitting ending on how he sees things, to end his involvement. I think they will keep on using his name when he's no longer actively involved, in one way or another. (Although this is no must for me.) DB will not die. The franchise will go on to make new stories, although after Toriyamas quitting there could be a period of silence. No matter who writes new content, i'll be prepared to read or watch it with an open mindset.

I'm just wondering you're getting this impression the series is going to continue for long without Toriyama. Are you saying the director was lying when he said it depends on Toriyama or that Toei will change their mind?

The multiple continuities you mentioned have all been short spinoffs like GT, the original movies, or video game stories that branched off from the original manga. Super has seperate continuities but they are two different adaptions of Toriyama's outlines. I'm not seeing anything that hints at DB becoming a neverending franchise. Several long running series have had spinoffs and alternate continuities but most of them still end.

Toei could've had a full-length Heroes anime, a spinoff about the Xeno/Time Patrollers universe, some other sequel, etc if they wanted instead of Digimon or one of the other anime they're currently working on. What's keeping them from doing that must either be Toriyama or they don't feel it'll be successful enough.

[GodVegetto91]

And if our theory is correct, this is exactly the reason why it takes so long for the Anime to return... Because the Manga will need to be quite ahead of it first. Hence they’re waiting for Toyotaro’s story to progress even further so they can start adapting it?

Luckily, they still have the Broly movie to adapt first, (And kill time!). And trust me, they WILL adapt it into an Anime Arc. It makes no sense for it otherwise.

Just bare in mind this isn't backed up up by any official source, it's mere speculation.
If that's really 100 % the reason and it's already decided, i just wonder why they stay so secretive about it.

That’s why i said: “If our theory is correct.”

[Mister_Popo]

I just hope Toriyama does write a fitting ending on how he sees things, to end his involvement. I think they will keep on using his name when he's no longer actively involved, in one way or another. (Although this is no must for me.) DB will not die. The franchise will go on to make new stories, although after Toriyamas quitting there could be a period of silence. No matter who writes new content, i'll be prepared to read or watch it with an open mindset.

I'm just wondering you're getting this impression the series is going to continue for long without Toriyama. Are you saying the director was lying when he said it depends on Toriyama or that Toei will change their mind?

The multiple continuities you mentioned have all been short spinoffs like GT, the original movies, or video game stories that branched off from the original manga. Super has seperate continuities but they are two different adaptions of Toriyama's outlines. I'm not seeing anything that hints at DB becoming a neverending franchise. Several long running series have had spinoffs and alternate continuities but most of them still end.

Toei could've had a full-length Heroes anime, a spinoff about the Xeno/Time Patrollers universe, some other sequel, etc if they wanted instead of Digimon or one of the other anime they're currently working on. What's keeping them from doing that must either be Toriyama or they don't feel it'll be successful enough.

I don't think the director is lying. It is in their intrest and intend to keep the creator on board as long as possible.
They simply don't want to take the risk yet to go on without him. He still has intresting stories to tell. And: they very well know his commercial value.

Bare in mind the situation back in the days with GT was different. It was another time and context. GTs failure had to do with a number of factors. Toriyama not being very actively involved and even publicly calling it a sidestory could be one of the reasons. But there was a massive saturation-effect as well going on after 500+ non-stop episodes of DB.
I do have the impression they tend to spread their releases more than in the 80s and 90s. This somehow slows down saturation and may be a wise thing to do on the long run (altough you never know for sure when a revival-effect can suddenly starts to decrease, and they are taking somewhat of a gamble with waiting so long to bring new anime).
Bare in mind the fanbase now is a lot larget than back in the day due to internet being involved and having an huge importance in creating hype. DB is bigger than ever, even when it gets a hit. You can't just copycat Toriyamas limited involvement in GT and paste it into todays context of popularity (25 years later) to conclude the effect will be exactly the same.

There is a difference however between creating something and holding the intellectual license over something. Shueisha will still hold the rights for DB after Toriyama is gone. If they eventually want to continue, together with the other stakeholders, they will continue. And why wouldn't they? Even after Toriyama quits, i don't believe suddenly nobody is going to watch a new DB-movie or -series anymore. Because the fanbase is huger than ever and after a number of years 'without anything' a new(er) generation of fans will be yet again be hungry for and appreciate new content. That's the same reason we got a revival in the first place.

[Skar]

Bare in mind the fanbase now is a lot larget than back in the day due to internet being involved and having an huge importance in creating hype. DB is bigger than ever, even when it gets a hit. You can't just copycat Toriyamas limited involvement in GT and paste it into todays context of popularity (25 years later) to conclude the effect will be exactly the same.

The same argument could be made for every recent revival. They have a bigger audience now but that doesn't guarantee everything they churn out will be successful. There are several examples of revivals/reboots flopping or initially performing well before revenue started to decline the longer they went on. Do you know of any revivals that continued to be as successful for as long as you believe DB's revival will last?

[IntangibleFancy]

If they really are waiting for Toyotaro to get far enough then will they put the show in filler hell like Boruto or go seasonal?

I think once the Moro arc's anime version ends, they'll just wait for the next arc to conclude before continuing the anime.

That's like an extra year and a half at the absolute least.

I haven't read much of Toyotaro's manga. Is the quality of his work really worth the one month pace and potentially putting the anime in an indefinite hiatus?

[Matches Malone]

I haven't read much of Toyotaro's manga. Is the quality of his work really worth the one month pace and potentially putting the anime in an indefinite hiatus?

The amount of pages he puts out is very similar to how many pages Toriyama put out each week (45 / 52) so we're getting nearly as much as Toriyama gave us back in the day. In terms of the quality, it has 2 things going for it, it's an original story (no bringing back x villain) and he's taking his time with it instead of rushing things. By waiting, the anime's production won't suffer any of the setbacks that Super 1.0 had such as bad scheduling and inconsistent writing and pacing. Does it suck that by the time it returns there will have been a 3+ year gap between it and Super 1.0 ? Yes, but I think the quality will make up for it, especially if the crew that made Broly is involved.

I'm just wondering you're getting this impression the series is going to continue for long without Toriyama. Are you saying the director was lying when he said it depends on Toriyama or that Toei will change their mind?

I think what he meant was that things will depend on Toriyama as long as he's involved with the franchise. This revival started without him (BOG wasn't originally written by him) but due to how bad the reception was for Evolution and how he was treated by Fox, he decided to get involved without being asked, so they were already planning things without him. The franchise is simply too big to stop for one person, regardless of how important he may be for the franchise. The purpose of the Dragon Ball room is to allow the franchise to continue beyond Toriyama.

[Skar]

I think what he meant was that things will depend on Toriyama as long as he's involved with the franchise. This revival started without him (BOG wasn't originally written by him) but due to how bad the reception was for Evolution and how he was treated by Fox, he decided to get involved without being asked, so they were already planning things without him. The franchise is simply too big to stop for one person, regardless of how important he may be for the franchise. The purpose of the Dragon Ball room is to allow the franchise to continue beyond Toriyama.

I doublechecked the interview and it was actually Akio Iyoku, editor-in-chief and head of the Dragon Room, that said "I also had another thought, which was that Dragon Ball is the work of Toriyama-sensei, so we need to continue having him involved up ahead. No matter how much we say, “We want to make a movie,” if Toriyama-sensei says “No,” it ends there… Well, hypothetically speaking; that’s not to say that Toriyama-sensei doesn’t want to do it. (laughs)"

I might understanding this wrong but it seems the Dragon Room was created to assist Toriyama in working on DB and not continue without him. When Toriyama refused to work on a new anime in 2008, Toei didn't proceed on their own. I think what happened with BoG is that Toei already had the initial draft written for the movie before approaching Toriyama hoping he might have an easier time approving and being involved. If Toriyama refused to help with BoG, I highly doubt it would've been as successful or lead to a sequel and might've been a standalone revival movie.

[Matches Malone]

I might understanding this wrong but it seems the Dragon Room was created to assist Toriyama in working on DB and not continue without him. When Toriyama refused to work on a new anime in 2008, Toei didn't proceed on their own. I think what happened with BoG is that Toei already had the initial draft written for the movie before approaching Toriyama hoping he might have an easier time approving and being involved. If Toriyama refused to help with BoG, I highly doubt it would've been as successful or lead to a sequel and might've been a standalone revival movie.

I don't remember the exact wording, but Toriyama said something along the lines of "I'm happy DB can continue beyond me" when talking about the DB room. In terms of 2008, I agree they could've went ahead, which is what they decided to finally do in 2013 but got lucky when he got involved, but according to him, he wasn't even asked to. Regardless, BOG was still written as a one time movie and the sequel didn't get the green light until after the box office numbers were in, as they weren't really sure about the franchise's modern day potential, even with Toriyama involved.

[Skar]

I don't remember the exact wording, but Toriyama said something along the lines of "I'm happy DB can continue beyond me" when talking about the DB room. In terms of 2008, I agree they could've went ahead, which is what they decided to finally do in 2013 but got lucky when he got involved, but according to him, he wasn't even asked to. Regardless, BOG was still written as a one time movie and the sequel didn't get the green light until after the box office numbers were in, as they weren't really sure about the franchise's modern day potential, even with Toriyama involved.

From what I understood, Toei approached Toriyama asking him to approve of the story and he decided to rework it and make it more light-hearted. I don't deny that Toriyama would allow Toei to continue on their own. Even with Toriyama's involvement, I believe the series as every other recent revival that went on for too long. The initial excitement of a classic series being brought back eventually wears off and sales start to decline. When people assume they could continue to have the same success for years to come, I'm curious what they're basing this on. Are there examples of other revivals lasting as long as fans believe DB will?

[Matches Malone]

When people assume they could continue to have the same success for years to come, I'm curious what they're basing this on. Are there examples of other revivals lasting as long as fans believe DB will?

I think it has more to do with their love for the franchise more than it being based on some other example. I think as long as they keep things original and not over saturate the market, they'll be able to take this pretty far. The revival is entering its 8th year and only has 131 episodes and 3 movies, compared to the original run which by its 11th year had 508 episodes, 17 movies, and 3 TV specials.

[Mister_Popo]

Bare in mind the fanbase now is a lot larget than back in the day due to internet being involved and having an huge importance in creating hype. DB is bigger than ever, even when it gets a hit. You can't just copycat Toriyamas limited involvement in GT and paste it into todays context of popularity (25 years later) to conclude the effect will be exactly the same.

The same argument could be made for every recent revival. They have a bigger audience now but that doesn't guarantee everything they churn out will be successful. There are several examples of revivals/reboots flopping or initially performing well before revenue started to decline the longer they went on. Do you know of any revivals that continued to be as successful for as long as you believe DB's revival will last?

I have no crystal ball to look into. Nobody knows where the franchise will stand 10 to 15 years from now.
For the time being, DB is more popular than ever without actually having an anime, apart from Heroes.
That says something.
The revival could potentially go on for a while. Is Toriyama going to sit out the complete ride? That's the question.
The man is already 64 years old.

If Toriyama quits within 3-4 years as an active writer, i don't see a reason why the Dragon Ball Room (it's there for a reason, to ensure the franchises future) wouldn't go on without him or at least try it. And why we should think in advance it couldn't have success or the content would suck. They might take a while to find the right balance without him. Nozawa and Toriyama are iconic, without a doubt, and not easily replacable, but DB is fictional world, everyone can enter and make his footprint.

There is a difference however between what i'd like and what i think that could happen. For me personally this is not a necessity, the main story can end for me if Toriyama quits. I would be open for other stories in another time period of the DB Universe, for instance something that's set during the early days of the Saiyan race would be intresting for a change ... I would love to see the real story of Yamoshi and the battle against the evil Saiyans fe, why not written by someone who has a fresh, renewing look on things? But i am not going to drama queen if suddenly a new movie comes out with the classic characters that's not written by Toriyama and condemn it solely because of that fact. I am first going to watch it and only judgde after i've seen it.

[emperior]

The end of Goku’s story must be written by Toriyama.
That’s all I ask.

Then the Dragon Ball Room and Toyotaro can do whatever spin-off they want, and I will even watch/read it, but I hope they won’t pass those stories off as canonical if they try to continue Goku’s story.

They could explore different time periods (ex. Saiyan’s past), do TV specials like the DBZ ones or condensing arcs from the manga into 2 hours TV specials like they did for One Piece. Or they could do some spin-off movie.

But most likely in the event that Toriyama completely retires from Dragon Ball I could see him entrusting Toyotaro (helped by the DB room) to be the lead writer of new side-stories about Goku and company, set after Chapter 519.
The manga itself told the viewers to imagine and create their own vision of what happens after Uub, didn’t it? They could market Toyotaro’s manga as “here’s how the Dragon Ball Super’s manga co-writer Toyotaro envisions what happens after Goku leaves with Uub” or whatever. Heck, Toriyama could even help by supervising and giving some design as he did at first for GT.

[JulieYBM]

I only want 'an ending' for Gokuu. Like, I don't mind more Dragon Ball, I just want to make sure that Toriyama gets to write a sort of final death for Gokuu. Maybe Beers' natural death is nearing so he begins destroying planets permanently and aims to destroy Earth to force Gokuu and Vegeta to evolve quicker. Then, with Beers finally dead, the two fight to decide who is strongest once and for all. This story can come now or it can come in ten or twenty years, I just want to see it.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

I think fans are putting a little too much on Toriyama. He already wrote an ending for Goku and the guy was burnt out on the series 20 years ago. Asking him to come up with yet another ending to story is asking for a lot.

[Matches Malone]

I think fans are putting a little too much on Toriyama. He already wrote an ending for Goku and the guy was burnt out on the series 20 years ago. Asking him to come up with yet another ending to story is asking for a lot.

I don't think Toriyama plans on moving beyond the manga's ending, so by ending we mean leading things directly into his original ending.

They could market Toyotaro’s manga as “here’s how the Dragon Ball Super’s manga co-writer Toyotaro envisions what happens after Goku leaves with Uub” or whatever.

They could also ignore what's currently going on and start over with a 3rd continuation, like how they ignored GT. I know that's less likely due to Toriyama being involved with this and it being more successful, but when you look at how many transformations they've already introduced and how high the power ceiling has gotten, they're kind of writing themselves into a corner.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

I think fans are putting a little too much on Toriyama. He already wrote an ending for Goku and the guy was burnt out on the series 20 years ago. Asking him to come up with yet another ending to story is asking for a lot.

I don't think Toriyama plans on moving beyond the manga's ending, so by ending we mean leading things directly into his original ending.

Ah ok. That I can get behind. Sorry for being slow.

They could also ignore what's currently going on and start over with a 3rd continuation, like how they ignored GT. I know that's less likely due to Toriyama being involved with this and it being more successful, but when you look at how many transformations they've already introduced and how high the power ceiling has gotten, they're kind of writing themselves into a corner.

I wonder how successful a full on reboot would be. They're always incredibly tricky, and outside of Western comics I can't think of too many successful examples, but I also can't think of a property where the fandom is more prone to "what if" type thinking. It's so prevalent, even the games got in it featuring mini "what if" side story missions. Then there's how popular so much DB fan made media is...

[Matches Malone]

I wonder how successful a full on reboot would be.

I don't think they'd reboot the original manga as that's the original DB product that started it all, and it's fully written and drawn by Toriyama. I do think however that there's a chance, a small chance, that they may ignore Super and move on with a 3rd continuation like how they've been ignoring GT.

[sangofe]

I wonder how successful a full on reboot would be.

I don't think they'd reboot the original manga as that's the original DB product that started it all, and it's fully written and drawn by Toriyama. I do think however that there's a chance, a small chance, that they may ignore Super and move on with a 3rd continuation like how they've been ignoring GT.

For sure they'll continue Super with the manga being labeled "Super".

[sangofe]

I only want 'an ending' for Gokuu. Like, I don't mind more Dragon Ball, I just want to make sure that Toriyama gets to write a sort of final death for Gokuu. Maybe Beers' natural death is nearing so he begins destroying planets permanently and aims to destroy Earth to force Gokuu and Vegeta to evolve quicker. Then, with Beers finally dead, the two fight to decide who is strongest once and for all. This story can come now or it can come in ten or twenty years, I just want to see it.

A fanmanga did something like this. And we've had an end for Goku in DBGT.

[Matches Malone]

For sure they'll continue Super with the manga being labeled "Super".

Super's story will continue for sure, I just don't think there's much room for it to continue for much longer due to how fast they jumped the shark on certain things, such as UI. The power levels and threats we're getting now aren't fit for a long term plan.