"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Xeogran
I Live Here
Posts: 3056
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:04 am
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:37 am

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:10 am Dragon Quest Dai could be ending this year. 2uper takes Digimon’s time slot. Digimon and Dai’s production teams combine for 2uper. Shintani or Kubota could be the lead animation director. Maybe even Nagamine could come back? (pretty please??) The anime returns October this year and rides off of the (hopeful) success of the Super Hero film.

Please let it all come to fruition. I beg. :(
New Digimon just started so slim chances it'll be ending anytime soon. It's merely at beginning of the plot.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:00 am

Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:59 amAha ! This further solidify my theory of the manga position as a mere promotional material rather than the main work
This is supposed to be a new revelation? More people watch anime than read manga in general and that also applies to the current best selling manga series. The manga started as promotional until it was no longer ahead of the anime. I think the only way it could be considered promotional still is if its arcs will be adapted because it's not really promoting anything if it'll be ignored.

User avatar
Nanatsu88
Newbie
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:33 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Nanatsu88 » Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:47 pm

Good! It seems that the return of the series this year may be very possible!

Digimon has every chance of ending in late September. Almost all Digimon series do not exceed 48 episodes with the exception of Adventure 2020. Normally, this series does not exceed that amount by viewing the history.

Dragon Quest Dai will end yes or yes before October. Seeing all that they have adapted and what remains to be adapted, it is impossible for the series to exceed 100 episodes. In fact, at the rate that it is going, it is normal for it to stay at 90-95 at most. Therefore, if or if in October the animated adaptation will have finished.

To this we must add that World Trigger ends its third season in 1 or 2 weeks and this time they have not announced a fourth season for next year because they will have gotten too close to the manga and the publication rate of the work is very slow. Remember that the animation director of World Trigger seasons 2 and 3 is Yuya Takahashi.

To this we must add that One Piece Red opens the first week of August so the animation production will have finished at the latest at the end of July.

Also keep in mind that the Slam Dunk movie will be animated by external Toei animators so the staff will not be affected by this either.

Therefore we have that before October we will have available the DQ Dai Staff, World Trigger in general, Takashi in particular and part of the One Piece Staff can also participate because the movie will have finished.

To all this we must add that for the movie Super Hero does not repeat Shintani designing characters and neither is Sumitomo composing the soundtrack. It is very possible that they are working on the production of the new series.

The animator Sanda also continues to publish new Dragon Ball illustrations, which he did before participating in Broly and One Piece.

I think that with all this, the return of the anime in October is very possible and the animation quality of this can be very good.

Jinto
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:16 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Jinto » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:12 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:35 am
Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:59 amAha ! This further solidify my theory of the manga position as a mere promotional material rather than the main work

All DB media being naturally subordinate to and working for the sake of advancing the franchise at large =/= 'mere promotional material'. The manga, anime, and movies (and games, for that matter) are all proper storytelling works in their own right, and should be regarded as such.
Because being rushed in its execution to coincide with the new movie is totally a proper storytelling.
Having original story doesn't matter if they are ultimately considered filler in the grand scheme of things BUT all of my word stay as mere theory until we get detail about the event in the movie and if it will or won't reference the event in the manga.

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 898
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:17 pm

Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:12 pm
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:35 am
Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:59 amAha ! This further solidify my theory of the manga position as a mere promotional material rather than the main work
All DB media being naturally subordinate to and working for the sake of advancing the franchise at large =/= 'mere promotional material'. The manga, anime, and movies (and games, for that matter) are all proper storytelling works in their own right, and should be regarded as such.
Because being rushed in its execution to coincide with the new movie is totally a proper storytelling.
See, you bolded that part, but you should've paid more attention to this part instead, because it already spoke to your comment:
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:35 amAll DB media being naturally subordinate to and working for the sake of advancing the franchise at large =/= 'mere promotional material'.
The various DB media falling in line with and advancing the overall franchise goals (and Toriyama's work being top of the pecking order when it comes to his own series) is only to be expected; but that doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the integrity of these media unto themselves. The manga did indeed start out as a promo back in 2015, but it has existed as an integral piece of DB storytelling media for several years now, which is self-evident from it telling increasingly independent plotlines for the stories it shares with the anime, and it telling totally new stories of its own over the last 3 years. Trying to imply it's still merely what it was back in 2015 seems pretty disingenuous.
Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:12 pmHaving original story doesn't matter if they are ultimately considered filler in the grand scheme of things
For the sake of storytelling, having stories to tell is basically the only thing that matters, really. And that's what DB storytelling media aim to do, first and foremost, whether manga or movies - the creators don't care about your own personal construction of 'canon'. You may also not like the stories told (which is a different consideration again), but trying to handwave around half the content a particular medium has produced in order to push the line that it's not a 'proper' work in its own right, merely for the sake of justifying what appears to be nothing more than a preconception, is merely tendentious argumentation rather than an honest appraisal of that work.
Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:12 pmBUT all of my word stay as mere theory until we get detail about the event in the movie and if it will or won't reference the event in the manga.
I don't see what difference that makes either way, honestly. Why should the movie be referencing any manga events, even in principle? It's not like what occurred in the Moro arc, for instance, is likely to be relevant to the events of Super Hero, so the movie refraining from crowbarring in references to it would be neither here nor there. The movie's going to tell its own story. Which, again, is the important thing.

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5812
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:31 pm

Let's hope whenever DBS anime comes back it can at least match up Dragon Quest Dai quality. They would need to be very stupid to make the same mistake twice, but you never know. :roll:
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

Jinto
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:16 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Jinto » Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:23 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 2:17 pm
Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:12 pm
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:35 am
All DB media being naturally subordinate to and working for the sake of advancing the franchise at large =/= 'mere promotional material'. The manga, anime, and movies (and games, for that matter) are all proper storytelling works in their own right, and should be regarded as such.
Because being rushed in its execution to coincide with the new movie is totally a proper storytelling.
See, you bolded that part, but you should've paid more attention to this part instead, because it already spoke to your comment:
Magnificent Ponta wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:35 amAll DB media being naturally subordinate to and working for the sake of advancing the franchise at large =/= 'mere promotional material'.
The various DB media falling in line with and advancing the overall franchise goals (and Toriyama's work being top of the pecking order when it comes to his own series) is only to be expected; but that doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the integrity of these media unto themselves. The manga did indeed start out as a promo back in 2015, but it has existed as an integral piece of DB storytelling media for several years now, which is self-evident from it telling increasingly independent plotlines for the stories it shares with the anime, and it telling totally new stories of its own over the last 3 years. Trying to imply it's still merely what it was back in 2015 seems pretty disingenuous.
Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:12 pmHaving original story doesn't matter if they are ultimately considered filler in the grand scheme of things
For the sake of storytelling, having stories to tell is basically the only thing that matters, really. And that's what DB storytelling media aim to do, first and foremost, whether manga or movies - the creators don't care about your own personal construction of 'canon'. You may also not like the stories told (which is a different consideration again), but trying to handwave around half the content a particular medium has produced in order to push the line that it's not a 'proper' work in its own right, merely for the sake of justifying what appears to be nothing more than a preconception, is merely tendentious argumentation rather than an honest appraisal of that work.
Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:12 pmBUT all of my word stay as mere theory until we get detail about the event in the movie and if it will or won't reference the event in the manga.
I don't see what difference that makes either way, honestly. Why should the movie be referencing any manga events, even in principle? It's not like what occurred in the Moro arc, for instance, is likely to be relevant to the events of Super Hero, so the movie refraining from crowbarring in references to it would be neither here nor there. The movie's going to tell its own story. Which, again, is the important thing.
It seems i misunderstood your point, here I am talking about the hierarchy of work in the DB franchise and you tell me the subject in and on itself is unimportant. Maybe...
But it matters when people consider what I think to be a rushed promotional manga as the main dish, it matters for what people generally think of the franchise as a whole and what they will remember of it. It's about knowing where DB stand as a piece of art nowadays.
Do we judge an actor's acting by their stuntmen ?

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5718
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:24 pm

Xeogran wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:37 am
New Digimon just started so slim chances it'll be ending anytime soon. It's merely at beginning of the plot.
Of the 8 completed Digimon shows only three of them ran longer than a year and one of those three only went a few weeks over a year. There’s a very good chance Digimon Ghost Game ends in September alongside Dragon Quest.
Last edited by ArchedThunder on Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Magnificent Ponta
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 898
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:25 pm
Location: Not on Tumblr, I guess

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Mon Jan 03, 2022 4:24 pm

Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:23 pmIt seems i misunderstood your point, here I am talking about the hierarchy of work in the DB franchise and you tell me the subject in and on itself is unimportant. Maybe...
I guess I'd be saying something more like, when it comes to some 'hierarchy of work' in DB, once you get past the extremely general assertion that 'Toriyama's involvement is the most important thing in Dragon Ball', such a thing is unlikely to have any existence at all, outside the confines of your own mind.

When it comes to Super specifically, even saying 'Toriyama's involvement is prime' and trying to leave it there would be problematic, because he's had direct and key involvement in a collaborative effort in all the main storytelling media, including the manga-only stuff. For instance, Toyotarou went so far as to tell us that the main plot draft for the Granolah arc is apparently Toriyama's, in addition to his continuing editorial control over the artwork. His involvement is all over it, even though the final piece is properly Toyotarou's - so, what then? Are you saying that Toriyama's work in this medium is just 'promo work', from which some idealised version of 'proper DB' is 'really' distinct? Why would this kind of involvement make for a less 'main' piece of work than his rough plot drafts from which the anime and manga both directly worked in the earlier arcs of Super (at least one of which presumably is the 'main' work, by your reckoning)? And what would such a claim be based on, beyond your own presupposition about how things 'should' be? By what criteria do you make this differentiation?

You're attempting to make assumptions about DB that dichotomise between 'main work' and 'promotional material', and this seems very curious, particularly when it seems to me that these two things aren't even a natural dichotomy - even when the manga certainly was a promo work, it was still telling the main story in a basically faithful fashion (necessarily so, in fact, else it wouldn't have been 'promoting' anything), but there are other DB storytelling media that certainly don't tell the main story or anything like it (Movies, Games, etc.) but can't in any really meaningful sense be described as merely 'promotional' works: they're simply integral media doing their own thing with DB. I guess it's unclear to me why the Super Manga wouldn't be that, even if the forthcoming movie took the (unlikely, because weirdly specific) effort that would be required to expunge the manga-only arcs from main DB continuity beyond any doubt.
Jinto wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:23 pmBut it matters when people consider what I think to be a rushed promotional manga as the main dish, it matters for what people generally think of the franchise as a whole and what they will remember of it. It's about knowing where DB stand as a piece of art nowadays.
Do we judge an actor's acting by their stuntmen ?
I'm not sure who the 'actor' is supposed to be, going by this analogy (DB the franchise, DB the main story, or Toriyama the key creator?), but whichever interpretation is meant here, this assumption doesn't seem to recognise that DB, even in its purely storytelling aspect, is a collaborative multimedia effort, and almost always has been. That's the state of the 'art'. That's how it's remembered. I don't see why that should be any less the case now.

User avatar
emperior
I Live Here
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Dragon World
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:19 am

I wouldn’t waste too much time looking into staffing and such. It’s impossible to know since when the production of the new anime began, but it is safe to assume that it is indeed under production as that would explain many things, such as:

- The new movie being full CGI, with only Kubota as the main animator employed
- Shintani and Sumitomo not being present despite the former having been handpicked by Toriyama and the latter being employed for every soundtrack of modern DB animation
- Granolah’s arc ending soon, most likely so that Toyotaro can also start to work on the new story alongside the anime, as this method proved successful with Super’s anime back in 2015 so they may want to replicate it

I already touched on what my opinion is for the future back in December viewtopic.php?f=25&t=46277&p=1727679#p1727679 and I think I was right. The news which has come out ever since surely seems to confirm my hypotheses.

Basically, I believe that the next anime will be set after the End of Z, and that they have prepared a lot during these years to make this transition. Moro arc was a very first hint, due to Uub’s role. Moreover, Toriyama had already written ‘SUPER HERO’ before Broly’s release, which means that Toyotaro fully knew how he could move in his stories set post-Broly, and that he was allowed to show how Goku mastered Ultra Instinct because, most likely, the plan was for the new show to start with Goku already having mastered Ultra Instinct “off-screen”.

So my theory is that the new anime will not adapt the manga’s stories, as those were basically intended to be filling the gaps.

If I am right and the new show is indeed set post-EoZ, I wonder if they will come up with a new name for the serie. The movie’s naming seems to mock the Super subtitle so maybe it really was done on purpose. What could they name the new show? DRAGON BALL - just that. No subtitle, nothing. Just plain, simple Dragon Ball.

That’s how I would do it. And I would also let Toyotaro’s manga to pick from chapter 520 of the original manga but I doubt that will ever be allowed, even though it would make sense to legitimise the new stories even more.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”

What I consider canonical

User avatar
SupremeKai25
I Live Here
Posts: 4047
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:40 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 11:37 am

I might skip the anime's first episodes if they recap the Broly arc, not interested in watching an inferior version of the same story. Beyond that I'd be very hyped if the anime finally came back after 4 years, that might finally resurrect this fandom that has been dying since the anime ended.

User avatar
Mr Baggins
Regular
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:23 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Mr Baggins » Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:10 pm

Assuming they'll make more of an effort to make this new (supposed) anime actually... I don't know, good this time, I can already see myself calling it "2uper" to differentiate it from the 2015-2018 run -- regardless of whether it follows the manga or just does its own thing. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Review scores for the DBS manga (and movies):

User avatar
Hellspawn28
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 15191
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:26 pm

I bet if Super does return, the new episode will be a recap of Broly via flashbacks and they will start off with the Moro saga.
She/Her
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:38 pm

I hope they can reuse the animation from Broli and then expand upon it using those unanimated storyboards. Give me a ten episode Broli arc!
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Super Saiyan Swagger
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:17 am
Location: Australia

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:54 pm

They could pull a Demon Slayer and just edit the Broly film into 8-10 episodes. If they do decide to do that, I hope that they add a lot more to it by adapting Toriyama's complete screenplay. It is weird how both BoG and 'F' got extended cuts but Broly didn't, so maybe this could be their way of doing it?

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:56 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:54 pm They could pull a Demon Slayer and just edit the Broly film into 8-10 episodes. If they do decide to do that, I hope that they add a lot more to it by adapting Toriyama's complete screenplay. It is weird how both BoG and 'F' got extended cuts but Broly didn't, so maybe this could be their way of doing it?
Boruto did the same thing!

My hope is that they replace the CG with new hand drawn fights, too!
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5718
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:30 am

A single episode to bridge season 1 and Broly, an 8 or so episode Broly arc and then Moro would be my ideal situation.
JulieYBM wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:38 pm I hope they can reuse the animation from Broli and then expand upon it using those unanimated storyboards. Give me a ten episode Broli arc!
Did they ever confirm that the hour of cut content ever got as far as storyboards? I assumed it never made it past being part of the script.

User avatar
Super Saiyan Swagger
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:17 am
Location: Australia

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:01 am

ArchedThunder wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:30 am A single episode to bridge season 1 and Broly, an 8 or so episode Broly arc and then Moro would be my ideal situation.
JulieYBM wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:38 pm I hope they can reuse the animation from Broli and then expand upon it using those unanimated storyboards. Give me a ten episode Broli arc!
Did they ever confirm that the hour of cut content ever got as far as storyboards? I assumed it never made it past being part of the script.
Nagamine said in an interview that they made a storyboard for the entire script.
Tatsuya Nagamine wrote:With the exception of action scenes, we’re adapting his screenplay pretty much as-is. However, though we want to be as faithful to it as possible, unfortunately the allotted run time is short. When we first made storyboards for the entire screenplay, a movie that was supposed to only be 90 minutes turned out to be double that length. Enough for two whole movies (laughs). Trying to forcefully condense that much content together would make it feel like a clip show, which would be boring, so I consulted with the producers and everyone else involved to whittle down the scenes and make it the proper length. We’re adamant about delivering as much of Toriyama’s script to viewers as possible, so we were able to extend the run time a little bit.
Here's the full interview: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/

User avatar
ArchedThunder
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5718
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:03 am

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:13 am

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:01 am Nagamine said in an interview that they made a storyboard for the entire script.
Tatsuya Nagamine wrote:With the exception of action scenes, we’re adapting his screenplay pretty much as-is. However, though we want to be as faithful to it as possible, unfortunately the allotted run time is short. When we first made storyboards for the entire screenplay, a movie that was supposed to only be 90 minutes turned out to be double that length. Enough for two whole movies (laughs). Trying to forcefully condense that much content together would make it feel like a clip show, which would be boring, so I consulted with the producers and everyone else involved to whittle down the scenes and make it the proper length. We’re adamant about delivering as much of Toriyama’s script to viewers as possible, so we were able to extend the run time a little bit.
Here's the full interview: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/
Guess I forgot. Either way I’d love to see the cut stuff animated.

User avatar
emperior
I Live Here
Posts: 4322
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Dragon World
Contact:

Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Wed Jan 05, 2022 4:08 am

JulieYBM wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:56 pm
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:54 pm They could pull a Demon Slayer and just edit the Broly film into 8-10 episodes. If they do decide to do that, I hope that they add a lot more to it by adapting Toriyama's complete screenplay. It is weird how both BoG and 'F' got extended cuts but Broly didn't, so maybe this could be their way of doing it?
Boruto did the same thing!

My hope is that they replace the CG with new hand drawn fights, too!
Could they even do such a thing?

I would love for it to happen, especially if we could get the scenes which did not make it to the movie, as well as potentially some new scene here and there.

They would also “buy” some time to produce newer episodes, as they wait for the staff to free up from other projects.

I am not counting on it happening though. If they were to retell Broly, then they would most likely also have to do Moro and Granolah, and then animate SUPER HERO in 2D and I just can’t see it happening. I think it’s more likely that they will want to get out the new show with a fresh new story right from the beginning.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”

What I consider canonical

Post Reply