"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:46 am

Doctor. wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:It people like you who need to stop spinning DBS as somesort of failed product.
I never said DBS was a failed product. Don't put words in my mouth.
Then what are you even arguing with me for then? I was originally arguing against that sentiment.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:49 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:It people like you who need to stop spinning DBS as somesort of failed product.
I never said DBS was a failed product. Don't put words in my mouth.
Then what are you even arguing with me for then? I was originally arguing against that sentiment.
Again, I'm arguing against the idea that sales are the be-all and end-all of any discussion.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:55 am

Doctor. wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
I never said DBS was a failed product. Don't put words in my mouth.
Then what are you even arguing with me for then? I was originally arguing against that sentiment.
Again, I'm arguing against the idea that sales are the be-all and end-all of any discussion.
The only reason sales were brought up was to show that people enjoyed the show enough to buy it. Nothing to do with the quality of the series. Which yes sales have nothing to do with.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:59 am

Kinokima wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Then what are you even arguing with me for then? I was originally arguing against that sentiment.
Again, I'm arguing against the idea that sales are the be-all and end-all of any discussion.
The only reason sales were brought up was to show that people enjoyed the show enough to buy it. Nothing to do with the quality of the series. Which yes sales have nothing to do with.
I think the retellings doing well is interesting. I mean, people can easily buy the movies for far cheaper, but they pony up for the Super retellings which has far inferior animation.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:59 am

Kinokima wrote:The only reason sales were brought up was to show that people enjoyed the show enough to buy it. Nothing to do with the quality of the series. Which yes sales have nothing to do with.
Sales were brought up in response to what someone said: "Because it’s Dragon Ball. No matter the quality people are going to tune in."

It's in response to the quality of the show. Sales were brought up as an argument that the show is good and stands on its own two feet and the brand is irrelevant. That's an incredibly tone-deaf argument when you take into account how huge Dragon Ball is and its target audience.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Neon Z » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:05 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:There is literally zero reason to believe that the franchise is done on TV for the years to come and we have every reason to believe that they already have plans in the works to bring Dragon Ball back to TV.
I don't think you people realize just how much money Dragon Ball is making right now because it has a TV show on the air, in this day and age this is not the kind of success you just throw away. It's making double what One Piece does, it's surpassed Gundam, anyone with even a tiny bit of business knowledge could tell you by looking at this that Bandai, Toei and Shueisha aren't going to let this go to waste.
But what if these sales are kept during the build up to the movie? If the movie can sustain the hype by itself, they easily could just focus on further movies, rather than attempting another tv show. We don't know how much of Dragonball's money goes back to Tv Fuji, and that's the issue with these theories about another show being planned secretly in spite of the official statements.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:06 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
I never said DBS was a failed product. Don't put words in my mouth.
Then what are you even arguing with me for then? I was originally arguing against that sentiment.
Again, I'm arguing against the idea that sales are the be-all and end-all of any discussion.
When it come to deciding when something is a failure or success it is.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:08 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote: Then what are you even arguing with me for then? I was originally arguing against that sentiment.
Again, I'm arguing against the idea that sales are the be-all and end-all of any discussion.
When it come to deciding when something is a failure or success it is.
Only when it comes to being a monetary success/failure, which was never nobody's point besides your own.

We all know it makes money. The question isn't if it makes money, it's why.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:09 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Kinokima wrote:The only reason sales were brought up was to show that people enjoyed the show enough to buy it. Nothing to do with the quality of the series. Which yes sales have nothing to do with.
Sales were brought up in response to what someone said: "Because it’s Dragon Ball. No matter the quality people are going to tune in."

It's in response to the quality of the show. Sales were brought up as an argument that the show is good and stands on its own two feet and the brand is irrelevant. That's an incredibly tone-deaf argument when you take into account how huge Dragon Ball is and its target audience.

Actually that poster originally replied to a post that had nothing to do with quality. It was that person who first brought up quality not Baggie in his sales argument

The original argument had nothing to do with quality it was just whether DB Super was a failure or not. Sales were absolutely not used as an argument whether the show was good or not just whether people enjoyed it enough to buy it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:10 pm

Neon Z wrote:
ArchedThunder wrote:There is literally zero reason to believe that the franchise is done on TV for the years to come and we have every reason to believe that they already have plans in the works to bring Dragon Ball back to TV.
I don't think you people realize just how much money Dragon Ball is making right now because it has a TV show on the air, in this day and age this is not the kind of success you just throw away. It's making double what One Piece does, it's surpassed Gundam, anyone with even a tiny bit of business knowledge could tell you by looking at this that Bandai, Toei and Shueisha aren't going to let this go to waste.
But what if these sales are kept during the build up to the movie? If the movie can sustain the hype by itself, they easily could just focus on further movies, rather than attempting another tv show. We don't know how much of Dragonball's money goes back to Tv Fuji, and that's the issue with these theories about another show being planned secretly in spite of the official statements.
Going by history, movie hype isn't maintained for a long period of time, which is why TV series even exists. Movies are, for the lack of better words, burst hype. You get excited when the movie is announced, things cool down. Then a trailer happens, everyone gets hype, and then it cools down again. The movie comes out, big hype, and then it goes down with a little dump for DVD release.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:11 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Kinokima wrote:The only reason sales were brought up was to show that people enjoyed the show enough to buy it. Nothing to do with the quality of the series. Which yes sales have nothing to do with.
Sales were brought up in response to what someone said: "Because it’s Dragon Ball. No matter the quality people are going to tune in."

It's in response to the quality of the show.
The response to that comment was showing examples of Dragon Ball stuff that still sold poorly despite being Dragon Ball, when by your logic those products should still be selling well because they're Dragon Ball, meaning that the notion is bullshit. Quality was not the subject of discussion in said response aside from YOU bringing it in.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


Obligitory Fan Fic Plug: Dragon Ball - Another Road
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Torturephile » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:14 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
Torturephile wrote:
Liquir wrote:DBS 129 Promo - Extended - Extra Scenes
https://twitter.com/DB__ZGTKAISUPER/sta ... 6205255680
That alone looks better than the last few episodes we've had.
I'm the only who finds kinda dull that Goku compares Jiren to Z villains? Come on, he could compare him with Beerus, Freeza and/or Zamasu.
No, you're not the only one. It makes no sense to me outside of Freeza since he came back for revenge and got stronger.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:22 pm

Kinokima wrote:Actually that poster originally replied to a post that had nothing to do with quality. It was that person who first brought up quality not Baggie in his sales argument

The original argument had nothing to do with quality it was just whether DB Super was a failure or not. Sales were absolutely not used as an argument whether the show was good or not just whether people enjoyed it enough to buy it.
Kanassa wrote:The response to that comment was showing examples of Dragon Ball stuff that still sold poorly despite being Dragon Ball, when by your logic those products should still be selling well because they're Dragon Ball, meaning that the notion is bullshit. Quality was not the subject of discussion in said response aside from YOU bringing it in.
I'm getting real tired of repeating myself. Go do yourselves a favor and read the discussion again.
Guesswhoo wrote:I'm sad about DBS ending but seeing the current state of the DB fanbase, I think it is for the best, and to this day I still think that DBS failing in the eyes of many is mainly related to the audience and fanbase. I think that every decision made by DBS was followed by a large wave of undeserved criticism (on Youtube or other platform) and the writer didn't know what to do to make fan happy anymore: [...]

With that set of mind, we cannot see the true purpose of the show or what the show want to be and instead focusing on what we want the show to be next. That is one of the reason why so many sequel or remake fail. I don't tell them to like the show because it has a purpose, I want them to consider what the show wanted to be and respecting that before throwing their preference instead of the usual anime critics for beginner package AKA " bad writing, no deep meaning, no edgy, no badass, not MADHOUSE/ Bones, no dark story, no social symbolism, no deep life lesson like LifU is WhAt yu wAnt it tU Be...".
This is the original post. What is the user talking about? The writing. How the writing is perceived by the fanbase. The fanbase always thinks the writing is bad, so the show, in his eyes, is failing because of it. It's about the quality of the show, or how the show is unfairly criticized.

He even acknowledges in a later post that Dragon Ball does, in fact, sell (news of the fucking century):
Guesswhoo wrote: DB will unfortunately stay as the iconic merchandise selling franchise with failed attempt at getting a revitalization of the market and respect for the franchise, It will die of fatigue and not the respectful death it deserves as an important part in opening up the field for the Shonen exploitation (because without exploitation potential, there is no support).
To make it even clearer that this was about fanbase opinion of the quality/writing of the show from the start. Baggie_Saiyan brought in sales as a justification as to why the show isn't failing, and Dbzfan94 replies with:
Dbzfan94 wrote:Because it’s Dragon Ball. No matter the quality people are going to tune in.
Which is what led to this discussion in the first place. Moving the goalposts and saying it was never about the quality of the show is being disingenuous. Saying I'm the one who brought quality into the discussion is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this website. I don't particularly care if I get warned for this because I'm absolutely tired of people here putting words in my mouth.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by ArchedThunder » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:23 pm

Neon Z wrote: But what if these sales are kept during the build up to the movie? If the movie can sustain the hype by itself, they easily could just focus on further movies, rather than attempting another tv show. We don't know how much of Dragonball's money goes back to Tv Fuji, and that's the issue with these theories about another show being planned secretly in spite of the official statements.
They won't keep up, movies result in short bursts of cash flow, a TV show is a weekly advertisement.
And your last comment makes no sense, no official statement has said they aren't planning a new show, all they said nothing is set in stone yet. They aren't going to just announce that another series is planned when the current one isn't even done yet and they are about to start the hype train for the new movie.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by OverHeaven » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:26 pm

Torturephile wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:
Torturephile wrote: That alone looks better than the last few episodes we've had.
I'm the only who finds kinda dull that Goku compares Jiren to Z villains? Come on, he could compare him with Beerus, Freeza and/or Zamasu.
No, you're not the only one. It makes no sense to me outside of Freeza since he came back for revenge and got stronger.
He only mentioned them because they are the most iconic and popular villains, of the main 4 Z arcs. He even included "Saiyan Saga" Vegeta lol
Feels more like a fanservice line for nostalgia reasons. It's weird for Goku to say it, but when you think about how it was written by someone from Toei staff it becomes pretty obvious.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:42 pm

They didn’t reveal much of Goku’s new form. What a terrible preview.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Neon Z » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:42 pm

ArchedThunder wrote:
Neon Z wrote: But what if these sales are kept during the build up to the movie? If the movie can sustain the hype by itself, they easily could just focus on further movies, rather than attempting another tv show. We don't know how much of Dragonball's money goes back to Tv Fuji, and that's the issue with these theories about another show being planned secretly in spite of the official statements.
They won't keep up, movies result in short bursts of cash flow, a TV show is a weekly advertisement.
And your last comment makes no sense, no official statement has said they aren't planning a new show, all they said nothing is set in stone yet.
They aren't going to just announce that another series is planned when the current one isn't even done yet and they are about to start the hype train for the new movie.
Both when asked about a sequel or Super returning they've said that it's still undecided. And I'm not sure they'd gain anything from hiding that. Series like Gundam and Kamen Rider carry on with multiple announced projects all at once.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:49 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Kinokima wrote:Actually that poster originally replied to a post that had nothing to do with quality. It was that person who first brought up quality not Baggie in his sales argument

The original argument had nothing to do with quality it was just whether DB Super was a failure or not. Sales were absolutely not used as an argument whether the show was good or not just whether people enjoyed it enough to buy it.
Kanassa wrote:The response to that comment was showing examples of Dragon Ball stuff that still sold poorly despite being Dragon Ball, when by your logic those products should still be selling well because they're Dragon Ball, meaning that the notion is bullshit. Quality was not the subject of discussion in said response aside from YOU bringing it in.
I'm getting real tired of repeating myself. Go do yourselves a favor and read the discussion again.
Guesswhoo wrote:I'm sad about DBS ending but seeing the current state of the DB fanbase, I think it is for the best, and to this day I still think that DBS failing in the eyes of many is mainly related to the audience and fanbase. I think that every decision made by DBS was followed by a large wave of undeserved criticism (on Youtube or other platform) and the writer didn't know what to do to make fan happy anymore: [...]

With that set of mind, we cannot see the true purpose of the show or what the show want to be and instead focusing on what we want the show to be next. That is one of the reason why so many sequel or remake fail. I don't tell them to like the show because it has a purpose, I want them to consider what the show wanted to be and respecting that before throwing their preference instead of the usual anime critics for beginner package AKA " bad writing, no deep meaning, no edgy, no badass, not MADHOUSE/ Bones, no dark story, no social symbolism, no deep life lesson like LifU is WhAt yu wAnt it tU Be...".
This is the original post. What is the user talking about? The writing. How the writing is perceived by the fanbase. The fanbase always thinks the writing is bad, so the show, in his eyes, is failing because of it. It's about the quality of the show, or how the show is unfairly criticized.

He even acknowledges in a later post that Dragon Ball does, in fact, sell (news of the fucking century):
Guesswhoo wrote: DB will unfortunately stay as the iconic merchandise selling franchise with failed attempt at getting a revitalization of the market and respect for the franchise, It will die of fatigue and not the respectful death it deserves as an important part in opening up the field for the Shonen exploitation (because without exploitation potential, there is no support).
To make it even clearer that this was about fanbase opinion of the quality/writing of the show from the start. Baggie_Saiyan brought in sales as a justification as to why the show isn't failing, and Dbzfan94 replies with:
Dbzfan94 wrote:Because it’s Dragon Ball. No matter the quality people are going to tune in.
Which is what led to this discussion in the first place. Moving the goalposts and saying it was never about the quality of the show is being disingenuous. Saying I'm the one who brought quality into the discussion is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this website. I don't particularly care if I get warned for this because I'm absolutely tired of people here putting words in my mouth.

No one is putting words in anyone’s mouth it is you who is misunderstanding people’s argument and trying to say people are arguing quality.

Except your quotes are a perfect example. People are saying the show is a failure because of subjective arguments based on quality such as the writing.


The other argument is that the show is not a failure because look a lot of people are actually buying it because they enjoy it. They are not just simply tuning in just because it’s DB. The argument that it is only a success because it is DB is not true. It’s a success because people enjoy it. They are not just watching it but actually spending money on it. And there are examples of DB things not selling as well.


We are not saying because a lot of people are buying the show that makes it a masterpiece just that means it’s not in anyways a failure.


Although granted the series doesn’t sell nearly as well in Japan but it’s way more expensive and that’s typical for series as long as Super.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Diccolo-420 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:50 pm

If sales are an indicator of quality, then Call of Duty is the best video game of all time.

Using sales to indicate that something is good is one of the biggest ad populum fallacies out there. People continue to watch because of it's name recognition. If this were any other anime I'm sure it wouldn't be getting as high of praise from fans, it's like Fallout 4 in how people were defending it because it's fallout when in reality it was a mediocre game that got inflated by fanboys.

At this point the only two good arcs in this show were U6 and Goku Black and even those had glaring flaws, the TOP regardless of whether you're taking issue of Goku getting the main focus once again has become incredibly rushed towards the end despite dragging on and on (the explanations of how its happening makes no sense, nobody cares about Jiren, all the hype put into other parts of the tournament meant nothing in the end), and if the show ends like this I can guarantee its legacy will be tarnished no matter the high points it had, and it sucks because people will indeed still buy it up just like how they keep buying CoD.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:57 pm

Diccolo-420 wrote:If sales are an indicator of quality, then Call of Duty is the best video game of all time.

Using sales to indicate that something is good is one of the biggest ad populum fallacies out there. People continue to watch because of it's name recognition. If this were any other anime I'm sure it wouldn't be getting as high of praise from fans, it's like Fallout 4 in how people were defending it because it's fallout when in reality it was a mediocre game that got inflated by fanboys.

At this point the only two good arcs in this show were U6 and Goku Black and even those had glaring flaws, the TOP regardless of whether you're taking issue of Goku getting the main focus once again has become incredibly rushed towards the end despite dragging on and on (the explanations of how its happening makes no sense, nobody cares about Jiren, all the hype put into other parts of the tournament meant nothing in the end), and if the show ends like this I can guarantee its legacy will be tarnished no matter the high points it had, and it sucks because people will indeed still buy it up just like how they keep buying CoD.
Except no one is arguing quality equal sells and Call of Duty isn't even the best example since those games are highly rated with the lowest game getting in the 80s. And for the for the record, Z's legacy wasn't ruined by what many considered a rushed and lackluster ending, so this argument really doesn't have much of a basic.

The rest is your opinion especially the 'no one cares about Jiren'. Given how many people are hyped for Jiren in Xenoverse 2, someone cares for him.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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