"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:04 pm

Rebel Instinct wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Rebel Instinct wrote: You've moved the goalposts completely. This was never about "plotholes" or "building investment". You said that GT didn't do anything with Piccolo and that his death didn't matter. Both of those statements were incorrect. Everything else you pointed out has nothing to do with original points I addressed.

I didn't. You just took my 'Piccolo did nothing' literally. When I said nothing, I mean he was set up to do nothing but die. But I will admit that I wasn't clear on that. His death also didn't really matter since the entire thing with Super 17 never made much sense.
Well, as you said, your meaning wasn't clear. There was no way I would've been able to know that's what you meant when all you said was "Toei didn't even do anything with Piccolo in GT" and "He was so nothing that him being alive or dead didn't matter." Kind of hard to not take literally. Anything else about plotholes and the like where never a part of the discussion until you brought them up. Also, just because the Super 17 arc had issues, it doesn't mean Piccolo's efforts didn't matter. Without him, Goku wouldn't have escaped Hell and Super 17 would've run rampant. Writing quality aside, it was important to the story being told.
I don't considered using a character just so you can kill them off doing anything, but that's me. They didn't even do a good job at it since if you didn't watch Z, there was no real emotional pay off for it. The plot holes and oddities just made it worst.

But I will stop here since this is off-topic.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:07 pm

Michsi wrote:
HeroR wrote:
The problem with Toppo for me, there are already character like him in Dragon Ball. He's a mixed of the Great Saiyanman meet Captain Ginyu.
More Saiyaman than Captain Ginyu if you ask me (which they kinda address through Gohan) but it's a type of opponent we've never seen Goku pitted against. I feel like Super went out of it's way to highlight how much Goku isn't the hero sort and that he fight's for his own sake, so him facing someone who is that sort and who would hold Goku's recklessness against him, and then later abandon that sense of justice himself, would have been more thematically weighty than what we got with Jiren. We already got power vs. power with the Kefla fight, could've thrown in just a sprinkle of conflict in there at the end.

HeroR wrote:Look at Xenoverse 2 to see super hero Jiren.
In a cut scene? Not a gamer, don't usually know what's going on over other than that it spoils a lot of things.
That would have been interesting, but that is more a character interaction than the core personality.

Jiren has some very Toppo lines in Xenoverse 2. I suggest you Youtube it.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:31 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:
HeroR wrote:And Toryama was completely okay with it and Cali wouldn't have existed without Kale.
Source? We don't know wether Toriyama was "completely okay with it" with it or not. And Caulifla did exist without Kale.
If Toei didnt design Kale, Toriyama wouldnt have made Caulifla to go with her.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:45 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Luso Saiyan wrote:
HeroR wrote:And Toryama was completely okay with it and Cali wouldn't have existed without Kale.
Source? We don't know wether Toriyama was "completely okay with it" with it or not. And Caulifla did exist without Kale.
If Toei didnt design Kale, Toriyama wouldnt have made Caulifla to go with her.
Toriyama's original submission didn't include ANY Female saiyans. Toei came back with the Broly inspired one and then Toriyama made his own version of a female saiyan in the form of Caulifa.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by CriticalThinker » Fri Mar 09, 2018 12:59 pm

Huh so it seems like Toriyama only designed Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Ribrianne, and Caulifla. Unless I missed it was there any other interviews which mentioned him designing any other fighters? Cause that seems pretty low and I'm guessing most of the designs were created by toei, curious to see how many Toyotarou created. Also to me at least it doesn't seem like the main pride trooper trio were that well planned out. Also while many might not be happy with why Kale was created I'm glad we got her because we ended up getting Caulifla and these two ended up being the best of tournament for me. Although I do wonder what kind characters we would have gotten instead of Kale and Caulifla since they weren't a part of the original draft.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:00 pm

CriticalThinker wrote:Huh so it seems like Toriyama only designed Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Ribrianne, and Caulifla. Unless I missed it was there any other interviews which mentioned him designing any other fighters? Cause that seems pretty low and I'm guessing most of the designs were created by toei, curious to see how many Toyotarou created. Also to me at least it doesn't seem like the main pride trooper trio were that well planned out. Also while many might not be happy with why Kale was created I'm glad we got her because we ended up getting Caulifla and these two ended up being the best of tournament for me. Although I do wonder what kind characters we would have gotten instead of Kale and Caulifla since they weren't a part of the original draft.
The article actually said he made many more, but those are the ones that are named.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by CriticalThinker » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:08 pm

HeroR wrote:
CriticalThinker wrote:Huh so it seems like Toriyama only designed Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Ribrianne, and Caulifla. Unless I missed it was there any other interviews which mentioned him designing any other fighters? Cause that seems pretty low and I'm guessing most of the designs were created by toei, curious to see how many Toyotarou created. Also to me at least it doesn't seem like the main pride trooper trio were that well planned out. Also while many might not be happy with why Kale was created I'm glad we got her because we ended up getting Caulifla and these two ended up being the best of tournament for me. Although I do wonder what kind characters we would have gotten instead of Kale and Caulifla since they weren't a part of the original draft.
The article actually said he made many more, but those are the ones that are named.
Ah okay I guess I somehow missed that part, definitely interested to find what other fighters he designed. Hopefully another interview comes out soon enough.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:15 pm

CriticalThinker wrote:
HeroR wrote:
CriticalThinker wrote:Huh so it seems like Toriyama only designed Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Ribrianne, and Caulifla. Unless I missed it was there any other interviews which mentioned him designing any other fighters? Cause that seems pretty low and I'm guessing most of the designs were created by toei, curious to see how many Toyotarou created. Also to me at least it doesn't seem like the main pride trooper trio were that well planned out. Also while many might not be happy with why Kale was created I'm glad we got her because we ended up getting Caulifla and these two ended up being the best of tournament for me. Although I do wonder what kind characters we would have gotten instead of Kale and Caulifla since they weren't a part of the original draft.
The article actually said he made many more, but those are the ones that are named.
Ah okay I guess I somehow missed that part, definitely interested to find what other fighters he designed. Hopefully another interview comes out soon enough.
Don't worry, so did most people apparently.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:23 pm

-New Toriyama interview-

I love these interviews, because it shows that not everything bad is Toei's fault. :lol: :lol:

So Toei wanted to make Jiren a interesting character, but Toriyama was like "No no no, he doesn't talk! But this time the antagonist has a backstory. Here take it!"

Toppo was always the only the Pride Trooper I cared about and I already wondered how better it would be if he was the main antagonist, I think it's explained now. His personality originally belonged to Jiren. :lol:

I'm surprised neither Caulifla and Kale were in Toriyama's original draft. That means the boring Cabba would be the only new Saiyan. Terrible!
I like the girls and as far as new characters go, Caulifla is easily my favourite character. Goku vs Caulifla/Kale/Kefla is also one of my favourite fights of the entire franchise.
I'm glad Toriyama is open to Toei suggestions.

The concept of magical girls coming out from Toei is surprising, because the idea of cute girls tranforming in uglier versions of themselves felt like something that Akira Toiryama would do.

Ultra Instinct not being something Toriyama has planned out is something I believe as much as he didn't planned out Goku to be Saiyan. I like his honesty, but as long as the story foreshadows stuff like this, I ignore this part.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by EXBadguy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:26 pm

Now that's a dickish move Toei. I don't mind Goku losing but I can't believe that transformation was all for naught. And it's at the end of the anime series? Nah man, fuck 'em!
Professor Freeza wrote: 1) Finally a top shonen series shows that even the main character can't overcome every obstacle.
Cell and Dr Gero say hello from the other side.
Last edited by EXBadguy on Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Akira Toriyama wrote:If anyone. ANYONE AT TOEI! Makes a movie about old and weak major villains returning, or making recolored versions of Super Saiyan, I'ma come to yo company and evict you from doing Dragon Ball ever again! Only I do those things, because people love me, and they despise you....derp!
Marco Polo wrote:Goku Black is a fan of DBZ who hates Super and has taken the form of a younger Goku (thinner shape, softer hair) to avenge the original series by destroying the new.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:29 pm

EXBadguy wrote:Now that's a dickish move Toei. I don't mind Goku losing but I can't believe that transformation was all for naught. Fuck 'em!
Professor Freeza wrote: 1) Finally a top shonen series shows that even the main character can't overcome every obstacle.
Cell and Dr Gero say hello from the other side.
I seriously doubt something as big as UI Goku losing its first match was Toei’s doing.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:35 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
HeroR wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
You're a Vegeta fanboy, so I'm curious why you are happy with Jiren beating Goku?

That means Vegeta's promise meant nothing

It means Vegeta passing on his trust to Goku meant nothing

It means Vegeta's speeches meant nothing

Goku losing to Jiren also DEvalues Vegeta as a character and his motivations/developments during the later part of the arc. Think about that

You arent looking at the bigger picture

You may hate Goku for what ever reason, but this rushed ending not only devalues Goku, but it devalues an entire hyped up new form, and it devalues Vegeta's motivations and character developments.

I don't see how people who claim to be on the ball in regards to criticism, are suddenly ok with this ending

Not to mention that Jiren while struggling against Omen was somehow able to beat MUI Goku just because "he got serious this time"...thats an asspull...yet people complained about Vegeta and Goku? No it was Jiren who ended up being the real mary sue
Well, no one actually saw the ending. Just some brief summery which doesn't tell us everything, especially context.

We don't even know how Jiren won. Maybe Jiren do beat UI into paste after powering up. Maybe Goku's UI runs out at the last second like Vegetto Blue. Maybe Goku slips on a rock and plummets out of the ring or he trips on Freeza's prone body. Maybe that trunk from the 22nd tournament crossover and runs Goku off the stage. I mean, we really don't know.
Spoilers explicitly state Jiren hits Goku point blank with a blast.

So regardless, Jiren does regain the upperhand against MUI Goku, which doesn't seem right.

Regardless of that, It doesnt matter how Jiren wins. Goku is still losing.

Goku is still going to lose despite Goku achieving a hyped up new form that the gods were in awe of.

Despite Goku constantly surpassing his limits, Jiren will one up him by simply "getting serious"

Who knew that all it took, all along, was to just get serious

All it takes to gain the upperhand and then defeat MUI is to just "get serious"

Regardless of "how" it happens (that's really semantics) Goku is still going to lose, which leaves a very sour taste in the mouth of many

As others have mentioned, Goku hasn't had 1 big win yet In Super. Goku was due - and this would've been the perfect opportunity to redeem Goku and end Super on the highest note possible

Instead we get this non sense. Jiren beating Goku is actually the most predictable ending because Goku has lost time and time again in Super. Everyone expected Jiren to win.

Frieza getting the win or being the last one against Jiren is even more predictable because everyone knew Frieza was being saved for this

Goku winning is what would have actually been the unpredictable out come

To all the people who were hoping Goku would finally just get his 1 win in Super, it doesnt matter how Goku ends up losing, the fact is, Goku is going to lose and it's an insanely disappointing predictable ending that entirely shits the bed

Goku always losing has become this shitty trope that gets spammed to death

Super always failed to end an arc in a satisfying way : (

First the terrible ending of the future trunks arc, and now this god awful ending of the tournament of power arc....and the tournament of power one hurts because I was loving everything about it from episodes 110 to 129.

I'm simply no longer hyped for 130 and 131. Theres a small chance I still even watch. And I personally wont care if I dont ever watch 130 and 131 now. I simply move on and don't invest my time into things I am no longer interested in. No anger. Just indifference and ignore. They really shit the bed with MUI Goku, and MUI Goku vs Jiren...and I'm not going to reward Toriyama/Toei for completely ruining it
You're acting like a Goku fanboy. Goku had more than 19 fights in this arc, 3 power ups, overcame the Hakaishins and you still not satisfied? It does not matter if Goku did not beat other DBS enemies, that does not make any difference considering all the excessive prominence that TOEI gave him. In DBZ, he had nothing close to that.

You should complain about the participation of Kuririn, Piccolo and Tenshinhan, not about Goku's only because he will lose.

Winning or losing at the end does not matter taking into account all this highlight that Goku received in this saga.
jeffbr92 wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:- Goku was only defeated by Beerus, not humiliated. Vegeta was literally trampled and psychologically humiliated by Beerus, saying that the prince of the Saiyans was nothing.
- It does not matter if Goku lost the tournament, he gained a new UP in power, overcame Vegeta and overcame the Time Skip of Hitto twice
- Vegeta was not humiliated in this case, but he was still trapped and made all his training useless. Goku lost to Black, but only after beating Black and Zamasu together with a rage boost. After that, he managed to counter an attack of Merged Zamasu alone, something that Vegeta and Trunks put together for some reason did not
- "Was it still useful to clear the field?" These enemies could be defeated by any other U7 member. And I'm talking about the tournament before the final battle. Before that, Vegeta did nothing
- It does not matter if the UI can not be easily accessed by Goku, it's still a power he has and that makes him much stronger than Vegeta


- Goku used all his transformations on Beerus, just to realize all his resources were useless against a GoD, almost destroying him with one blow and he was defeated twice by him in the same arc.
- It matters as Goku main objective is not surpass Vegeta, he fought a strong guy like Hit as able put a good fight, but ended losing due Hit not being able to use his hidden techniques, he was not satisfied about it.
- Useless you say, but you don’t realize if Vegeta didn’t have trained, he would have been killed by Black and then Goku would be left alone to fight the two, powering-up later or not, he still could take revenge on Black and Goku didn’t. As I said before overpowering Merged Zamasu didn’t acomplished much then they having to rely on fusion and fail one more time.
- We don’t know that, even the likes of Tien and Krillin had fall by weaker enemies, Vegeta was just doing his job as in the end we knew that were just a handful of fighters at his level or possibly stronger.
- Goku has to go through some process before activating UI, we don’t know if he will end being able to use it as a normal thing, yet. And yes, Goku is much more stronger than Vegeta, don’t see the issue with that as he’s the protagonist. It doesn’t mean that Vegeta couldn’t unlock UI in the future though.


-Once again, Goku was only easily defeated. Vegeta was humiliated, because in addition to losing easily, Beerus insulted him in various ways and stepped on his head
- No matter if Goku's goal was not to overtake Vegeta, it happened.
- Goku counter attack Merged Zamasu did not help at all? He destroyed his halo and deformed his body, which is somewhat absurd considering that Vegeta and Trunks did nothing
- If we are going to use here the argument '' but Goku is the protagonist '', then this discussion does not make sense and it only reinforces that Goku fans want him to win everything just because he is the protagonist
- I'm not talking about Toppo with his ''Hakaishin transformation'', in the exhibition tournament he had not shown it and Goku was in advantage at the beginning of the fight
- No matter if they were sparring, they were still fights that received whole episodes dedicated to them (with the exception of Goku Vs Slim Boo) and they had great prominence
- I'm not talking about winning or losing, but about having a really important fight
- SSB KK x20 is a new power up, it's something he could not do before but now in the tournament he does
- The fight with Aniraza was team work, but Goku was still present and was very active, unlike Vegeta and Gohan who did almost nothing
- ''Almost'' is a lot, because we're talking about almost eliminating Jiren
- Yes, he overcame the Hakaishins and mastered a technique that even the Gods can not

Do you think Goku having more than 19 fights in this saga (the other sagas in DBZ have had nothing close to that), 3 power ups and much prominence is something '' standard '' for a protagonist? If you see Naruto for example, it is something much more balanced (perhaps taking out the ninja war, and that even so other characters have stood out)

- Me neither, I just don’t think Goku KKx10 + Blue (It wasn’t x20 that time) would be enough to defeat Toppo who was just surprised by his level of power, but we know there’s plenty more to come from him.
- I don’t see nothing much impressive from these fights, some served to him look cool others were just a waste of time.
- I’m talking about winning and losing, we started this whole subject because you could not stand the fact people wanting Goku to win a major battle for the first time after a long while.
- Whatever you say, KKx20 + SSJB just served to be trashed on this arc, specially by Jiren.
- You can argue about characters use, just fine. I just don't agree that Vegeta and Gohan did nothing as the only thing Goku did before the final battle was defeating Kefla. You can say he was responsible for erasing some universes due defeating its last fighters, but it was not all his work alone.
- Again, not talking about “almost” feats, but actual feats and the outcome of his fight against Jiren is yet to come.
- Highly implied so, but still no confirmation of that.
- I still don’t see the issue, it’s not about fights and screentime, but winning and Goku last major win as against Majin Boo with the help of others. He got all these power-ups and prominence you said, but still acomplished nothing, we’re waiting to see this build to pay off. It doesn't matter much if they give 5 transformations to Goku in the same arc if he still loses at end as it makes him look incompetent.
- No matter if you did not see anything impressive in the fight, they did exist and some lasted an entire episode
- This discussion started because Goku fans are not satisfied until he gets all the glory, obfuscating all the other characters
- No one here is talking about the utility of the SSB KK x20, it does not change the fact that it was a new power up
-I did not say Vegeta and Gohan did nothing, but compared to Goku, it's almost nothing. And it's not just because Goku is the protagonist, in DBZ he did not need so much screen time to shine.
- '' Almost '' is still a feat considering that he gave work to Jiren

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:41 pm

You know I read the interview a few hours ago and I really didn't know how the article my thoughts on it in a robust and concise manner. And now I do...

Someone needs to have the balls to tell Toriyama, "No. This sounds stupid." Or, "We need more than that to work with."

It's amazing to think if it weren't for Toei's suggestion for Kale, we would have never gotten a female SSJ, and the wait for that would have continued.

And it seems Toriyama was more focused on what Universe 7 did in the tournament more than anything else, so it's really a miracle the other universes got as much screentime as they in the anime before and and during the Tournament Of Power.

I'm also very intrigued by the ending of Super with the possibility of it setting up more stories in the future

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:44 pm

Here was everyone blaming toei for not giving jiren a personality... near the end of Super we find out that toei WANTED to give jiren a personality... and it was toriyama who told them that he is quiet... AND HE MADE THE BACK STORY.

Just let that sink in, toeis vision of jiren was going to make him a good character.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:45 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:You know I read the interview a few hours ago and I really didn't know how the article my thoughts on it in a robust and concise manner. And now I do...

Someone needs to have the balls to tell Toriyama, "No. This sounds stupid." Or, "We need more than that to work with."

It's amazing to think if it weren't for Toei's suggestion for Kale, we would have never gotten a female SSJ, and the wait for that would have continued.

And it seems Toriyama was more focused on what Universe 7 did in the tournament more than anything else, so it's really a miracle the other universes got as much screentime as they in the anime before and and during the Tournament Of Power.

I'm also very intrigued by the ending of Super with the possibility of it setting up more stories in the future
There really isn't anything here that says 'this is stupid' outside people still griping about Kale and that was Toei. Maybe you can say Toriyama should be more involved, but nothing he did or didn't do comes off as dumb.

And here's the thing, someone could have told Toriyama that something sounded bad he said 'fuck off'. It isn't like that would make it into an interview.
Kenneth La Torre wrote:Here was everyone blaming toei for not giving jiren a personality... near the end of Super we find out that toei WANTED to give jiren a personality... and it was toriyama who told them that he is quiet... AND HE MADE THE BACK STORY.

Just let that sink in, toeis vision of jiren was going to make him a good character.

I would say different, not necessarily good. Like I personally like asshole Jiren and while I liked Toppo his character type is a dime a dozen in Dragon Ball. He's basically Saiyaman.

And seriously the 'Jiren has no personalty' is old. Just say you don't like his personality.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:58 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: And it seems Toriyama was more focused on what Universe 7 did in the tournament more than anything else, so it's really a miracle the other universes got as much screentime as they in the anime before and and during the Tournament Of Power.
In before Universe 7 team being the main responsible for eliminate all the Universes so far was in Toriyama's outline. :lol:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by RedHeat » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm

I hope if there's one thing the fandom takes away from this interview is that just because Toriyama is involved doesn't mean that's a good thing.
Feels over Reals.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote: In before Universe 7 team being the main responsible for eliminate all the Universes so far was in Toriyama's outline. :lol:
Meaning AT ruined this arc while Toei/Toyo are suffering because of this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:05 pm

RedHeat wrote:I hope if there's one thing the fandom takes away from this interview is that just because Toriyama is involved doesn't mean that's a good thing.
But what if I liked what has happened for the most part? Should I turn in my fandom card?
The gr wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote: In before Universe 7 team being the main responsible for eliminate all the Universes so far was in Toriyama's outline. :lol:
Meaning AT ruined this arc while Toei/Toyo are suffering because of this.

To be real, most fans really don't care that U7 took out most of the other universes. I have hardly seen anyone claiming they wanted to see an episode or even half an episode of U2 and U10 duking it out. It was all about their favorite getting shine otherwise people wouldn't have exploded into salt every time a U7 member bit the dust. I think only Roshi and 18 fans were happy overall in this arc.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super" Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:10 pm

Personally speaking, Toriyama putting his foot down with regards to Jiren I think worked out, at least for me.

The contrast between Toppo and Jiren was a treat for me.

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