"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
Chuquita
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15035
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:16 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Chuquita » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:04 pm

It'd be an awful coincidence if one of the remaining two Super DB's is New Namek.
My deviantart * My tumblr * My twitter
---
フレフレ みんあ! フレフレ 私!

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5341
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by FortuneSSJ » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:05 pm

Sodhi wrote: I am convinced that champa is not villian because how he just simply told to beerus that the prize is super dragon balls, while if he had bad intentions he could have easily kept finding the balls himself since beerus is depicted to be stronger than him. The only way I can see champa being a villain is if he intentionally wanted beerus to find the last ball for him so that he does not have to do nay work then bam he will steal it?
Its possible. Doesn't make sense Champa be gathering the Super Dragon Balls just to give them to Beerus.
Chuquita wrote:It'd be an awful coincidence if one of the remaining two Super DB's is New Namek.
Isn't only one remaining?!
Those coincidences can easily happen. :lol: I'm hoping the last one is the 4th-star DB.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
alakazam^
I Live Here
Posts: 2714
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:55 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by alakazam^ » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:46 am

The remaining Super Dragon Ball could be in Universe 6 and be the reason they go there. Which would mean they win the tournament :sick:

saunasolmu
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 177
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:16 am

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by saunasolmu » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:59 am

alakazam^ wrote:The remaining Super Dragon Ball could be in Universe 6 and be the reason they go there. Which would mean they win the tournament :sick:
And if the heroes for once actually win something, how is that a bad thing? They're supposed to win, they're the protagonists that we root for. Hasn't Dragon Ball used the trope of the hero losing for enough times already?

Maybe this time Goku & co. win because they're actually stronger :clap:

User avatar
sailorspazz
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: ZamaBlack love shack
Contact:

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by sailorspazz » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:14 am

The fact that the protagonists don't always win keeps fans on their toes. Lots of series, you just know that the protagonists will always overcome whatever impossible odds they're facing and achieve victory. Meanwhile, over in Dragon Ball, Gokuu has been in five tournaments, but only won once. Some might say that continuously going against expectations then becomes the expectation, but I'm still genuinely unsure about which team is going to win, since both outcomes seem plausible (mostly I'm just hoping the tournament is actually completed without interruptions; that would be the one result I might be annoyed at).
A veteran fan-girl past her prime
Host of Fujoshi Trash Talk at Anibros Creative podcast network
Twitter | Tumblr | Fanfics at fanfiction.net and ao3 | DeviantArt | YouTube

User avatar
CosmicSaiyan
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:01 pm

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by CosmicSaiyan » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:43 am

sailorspazz wrote:The fact that the protagonists don't always win keeps fans on their toes. Lots of series, you just know that the protagonists will always overcome whatever impossible odds they're facing and achieve victory. Meanwhile, over in Dragon Ball, Gokuu has been in five tournaments, but only won once. Some might say that continuously going against expectations then becomes the expectation, but I'm still genuinely unsure about which team is going to win, since both outcomes seem plausible (mostly I'm just hoping the tournament is actually completed without interruptions; that would be the one result I might be annoyed at).
I hope they fodderize the other team cause Goku and Vegeta alone should be at Universal+ level at this point especially after training for 3 years in ssjgod form.

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5341
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:04 pm

CosmicSaiyan wrote: I hope they fodderize the other team cause Goku and Vegeta alone should be at Universal+ level at this point especially after training for 3 years in ssjgod form.
That would be boring.
A tournament must be balanced to be interesting. There's no fun in seeing the other team get one shot. If those guys are the strongest of U6, they should give U7 team a run for their money.

Despite Goku's/Vegeta's level the plot may always come up with someone stronger. But I still think training 3 years in the Time Chamber is overkill, and would rathered Toriyama not go that route.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

buutenks
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1884
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:42 am

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by buutenks » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:24 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
CosmicSaiyan wrote: I hope they fodderize the other team cause Goku and Vegeta alone should be at Universal+ level at this point especially after training for 3 years in ssjgod form.
That would be boring.
A tournament must be balanced to be interesting. There's no fun in seeing the other team get one shot. If those guys are the strongest of U6, they should give U7 team a run for their money.

Despite Goku's/Vegeta's level the plot may always come up with someone stronger. But I still think training 3 years in the Time Chamber is overkill, and would rathered Toriyama not go that route.
I dont see why the u6 team should give u7 team a run for their money.Actually i dont even think that is possibly.

Since champa is the god of destruction of the u6 universe means he is the strongest being except for vados who doesnt really count.Since champa is a wee bit weaker than beerus and goku and vegeta are pretty close to beerus in power and that nipple guy also,i dont see how they could give them a run for their money.They could beat them after a hard fight sure but easily?nah i dont see it happening.

User avatar
GodVegetto91
I Live Here
Posts: 2098
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:56 pm

buutenks wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:
CosmicSaiyan wrote: I hope they fodderize the other team cause Goku and Vegeta alone should be at Universal+ level at this point especially after training for 3 years in ssjgod form.
That would be boring.
A tournament must be balanced to be interesting. There's no fun in seeing the other team get one shot. If those guys are the strongest of U6, they should give U7 team a run for their money.

Despite Goku's/Vegeta's level the plot may always come up with someone stronger. But I still think training 3 years in the Time Chamber is overkill, and would rathered Toriyama not go that route.
I dont see why the u6 team should give u7 team a run for their money.Actually i dont even think that is possibly.

Since champa is the god of destruction of the u6 universe means he is the strongest being except for vados who doesnt really count.Since champa is a wee bit weaker than beerus and goku and vegeta are pretty close to beerus in power and that nipple guy also,i dont see how they could give them a run for their money.They could beat them after a hard fight sure but easily?nah i dont see it happening.
This.
100% this!
I don't see HOW they could possibly win from us.. Goku and Vegeta have trained for 3 years in the new rosat and should at least be pretty close to Beerus level at this point. (perhaps even stronger!) and than there's Monaka who's definitely above even Golden Freeza. Sorry to say. but Universe 6 loses by default guys.
(unless ofcourse Akira Toriyama decides to create a plot point for them to win) but if they're not gonna cheat or in any way refrain from fighting normally i don't see how universe 6 team wins.
Champa SHOULD logically be the strongest of his universe(besides Vados ofcourse) because he's the God of Destruction. and all his team members should thus (logically) be weaker than him. now we know through many implications/hints. that Champa is AT MOST Beerus level. (he was implied to be weaker)
So go figure.
“The fool looks to God outside him. The wise understands that God is within him.”

User avatar
alakazam^
I Live Here
Posts: 2714
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:55 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by alakazam^ » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:20 pm

saunasolmu wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:The remaining Super Dragon Ball could be in Universe 6 and be the reason they go there. Which would mean they win the tournament :sick:
And if the heroes for once actually win something, how is that a bad thing? They're supposed to win, they're the protagonists that we root for. Hasn't Dragon Ball used the trope of the hero losing for enough times already?

Maybe this time Goku & co. win because they're actually stronger :clap:
It's not really a bad thing, depends on where Toriyama wants to go with the story. I think it'd boring if they win, since that's what people naturally expect, even if we know Dragon Ball doesn't work like the majority of other series. They always win against villains, understandably so, so we could have some losses on non-death fights :D

Team Champa's levels are a good point but I think it's not that hard to believe some of them are stronger than Goku and Vegeta. They are still below Beers' level and Monaka, as far as we know, isn't there yet as well so there's nothing stopping the Universe 6 ones being the same. Maybe their strongest is equal to Monaka? Like sailorspazz said, every outcome is plausible.

User avatar
Daisetsu
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:08 pm

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Daisetsu » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:21 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
The only thing you know about the U6 characters is their designs and MAYBE their names. You don't know how strong they are or if they have any certain techniques that could win them a match or two. You literally cannot say whether they will lose by default or not. To say they will, with what little information we know, is just (for lack of a better word) dumb.

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13023
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by dbzfan7 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:39 pm

To be honest neither outcome is surprising anymore. People may expect U7 to win, but Goku being subverted to lose has happened so much, it's not gonna be surprising if he does. What would be surprising is if Goku and Vegeta both lost early on. No one would expect that. It's expected they go the distance and perhaps lose at the end.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5341
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:53 pm

buutenks wrote: I dont see why the u6 team should give u7 team a run for their money.Actually i dont even think that is possibly.

Since champa is the god of destruction of the u6 universe means he is the strongest being except for vados who doesnt really count.Since champa is a wee bit weaker than beerus and goku and vegeta are pretty close to beerus in power and that nipple guy also,i dont see how they could give them a run for their money.They could beat them after a hard fight sure but easily?nah i dont see it happening.
That doesn't mean anything. After their 3 years overkill training Goku/Vegeta may already be stronger than Beerus, who doesn't do nothing except sleep and eat.
Some members of U6 team could have been training too, and even have something like the Time Chamber in their Universe.

Besides their appearance, we don't know nothing about them. Not even their names are officially confirmed yet.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
Tsufuru
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 497
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Tsufuru » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:07 pm

This.
100% this!
I don't see HOW they could possibly win from us.. Goku and Vegeta have trained for 3 years in the new rosat and should at least be pretty close to Beerus level at this point. (perhaps even stronger!) and than there's Monaka who's definitely above even Golden Freeza. Sorry to say. but Universe 6 loses by default guys.
(unless ofcourse Akira Toriyama decides to create a plot point for them to win) but if they're not gonna cheat or in any way refrain from fighting normally i don't see how universe 6 team wins.
Champa SHOULD logically be the strongest of his universe(besides Vados ofcourse) because he's the God of Destruction. and all his team members should thus (logically) be weaker than him. now we know through many implications/hints. that Champa is AT MOST Beerus level. (he was implied to be weaker)
So go figure.
you just said goku and vegeta might be close or even stronger than beerus who is a god of destrcution but you say the other team cant be close to champa why?

User avatar
SansrivaaL
I Live Here
Posts: 3757
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:29 pm
Location: Earth

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by SansrivaaL » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:36 pm

I actually think Goku and Vegeta surpassed Monaka and is a lot more closer to Beerus level now. 3years of training is seriously overkill for saiyans, the more they train the stronger they get.

User avatar
Doctor.
Banned
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:02 am
Location: Portugal

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Doctor. » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:46 pm

I don't get why it's so hard to believe that U6 is on the same level as U7.

Do we know anything about U6's participants? No. Universe 6 has the same training methods as universe 7. If Goku, Vegeta and Monaka managed to get so strong, then there's nothing stopping universe 6's members to get just as strong, if not more, as well.

Is there a rule that the God of Destruction is the strongest in his universe? Again, no. Their assistants are stronger, and even if you want to discount them, Goku and Vegeta at some point will surpass Champa and maybe Beerus, making them stronger than two Gods of Destruction. Even if they don't, their hypothetical fusions would. Champa can be the God of Destruction of universe 6 but be weaker than everyone he gathered. I'm not saying this is likely, but it's possible, and there's absolutely nothing stopping this from being true.

And finally, how boring would it be if everyone in universe 6 is simply at Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2 level because of some unspoken rule that they CAN'T be as strong as Goku and Vegeta? Pretty fucking boring.

I'm sorry, but it'd be terrible, absolutely awful writing, if Goku and Vegeta (and Monaka) are unparalleled the entire tournament.

User avatar
Wezenheim
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1009
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:41 pm

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Wezenheim » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:22 pm

There's also the fact that Freeza became stronger than a SSJ Blue in a matter of months. If we are to believe stuff like that can happen, we have to assume that anyone Champa gathers could get to that level as well with the RoSaT thing in Vados' staff (I am of course simply assuming she has one, or they have something similiar in U6) based purely on how much potential they have. I really hope Heat/Hit is strong, I like his design, even if it is fairly simple. I have a feeling that Frost won't be a "bad" guy, but I could be wrong.

Birusu16
OMG CRAZY REG
Posts: 909
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:59 pm

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Birusu16 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:55 pm

Some serious overestimation of Goku and Vegeta going on here while underestimating the U6 characters. Goku and Vegeta training in the RoSaT for 3 years isn't some guarantee 2x or 3x power boost like people are making it out to be. Vegeta and Trunks went in twice. The first time they received a huge boost. The second time their power hardly increased at all.

It's highly unlikely that they'll be as strong or stronger than Beerus and I'd say it's quite likely they'll be weaker than Monaka.

User avatar
TheDevilsCorpse
Moderator
Posts: 11377
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:34 am
Contact:

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:17 pm

Birusu16 wrote:Some serious overestimation of Goku and Vegeta going on here while underestimating the U6 characters. Goku and Vegeta training in the RoSaT for 3 years isn't some guarantee 2x or 3x power boost like people are making it out to be. Vegeta and Trunks went in twice. The first time they received a huge boost. The second time their power hardly increased at all.
I don't personally care what their power gains are, but this comparison isn't fair. Trunks and Vegeta may have went in together the first time, but they trained alone. The second time, they went in separately and started to suffer diminishing returns form basically doing the same training a second time, but with a slightly different goal.

Goku and Vegeta's training in the Super manga is much more akin to Goku and Gohan's training in the RoSaT. Their sparring allowed for pretty massive gains at the time. Goku did mention that going in a second time wouldn't be worth it, but every time they surpass their limits with a new transformation, they have a whole new pool of potential to play with. Regardless of what the results of their training are, having reached SSGSS and utilizing a sparring partner changes the game significantly from the Trunks & Vegeta example.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)

User avatar
Araki
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1453
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:54 am

Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Araki » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:24 pm

Doctor. wrote:I don't get why it's so hard to believe that U6 is on the same level as U7.

Do we know anything about U6's participants? No. Universe 6 has the same training methods as universe 7. If Goku, Vegeta and Monaka managed to get so strong, then there's nothing stopping universe 6's members to get just as strong, if not more, as well.

Is there a rule that the God of Destruction is the strongest in his universe? Again, no. Their assistants are stronger, and even if you want to discount them, Goku and Vegeta at some point will surpass Champa and maybe Beerus, making them stronger than two Gods of Destruction. Even if they don't, their hypothetical fusions would. Champa can be the God of Destruction of universe 6 but be weaker than everyone he gathered. I'm not saying this is likely, but it's possible, and there's absolutely nothing stopping this from being true.

And finally, how boring would it be if everyone in universe 6 is simply at Super Saiyan or Super Saiyan 2 level because of some unspoken rule that they CAN'T be as strong as Goku and Vegeta? Pretty fucking boring.

I'm sorry, but it'd be terrible, absolutely awful writing, if Goku and Vegeta (and Monaka) are unparalleled the entire tournament.
Yeah, there's a really big difference between Freeza and the U6 fighters: while Freeza was an old character whose power level was well known, we never really met these guys before - hell, their entire universe before. So there would be nothing absurd if some of these guys are revealed to be on par or stronger than Goku or Vegeta, they're coming from an entirely new and unknown realm, with its own history, facts and events.

Post Reply