"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Sodhi » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:23 pm

If Goku Black really is Zamasu then its weird how he is still learning how to sense ki.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Sandubadear » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:25 pm

Sodhi wrote:If Goku Black really is Zamasu then its weird how he is still learning how to sense ki.
Nice catch, I hadn't thought of that before.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:35 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Miracles wrote:We got some supplemented info that we didn't get in the anime. Goku Black is indeed somehow related to the warriors of earth. Due to him being able to sense ki and with the explanation of the parallel worlds. Could that mean Black is actually Goku? Did anything happen to Goku within any of the timelines in Dragonball?
The parallel worlds info is more important for Trunks, in re-explaining why his world/timeline/dimension/whatever exists and is different from what we know in the main timeline.

You might also be taking the ki sensing thing a little too literally. Black learned to sense ki, like when Vegeta picked up that "Earthling ability" during Saiyan to Namek Arcs. It doesn't really mean Black is related to the warriors of Earth any more than Vegeta was at the time, he simply learned to do what they were capable of during his time on the planet.
Agreed but it tells me one other thing....Black can't be a God of any sort really. Gods can also sense Ki quite easily.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:43 pm

The manga's explanation of how time travel works and why it's dangerous is A LOT more consistent with what we know than what the anime explained.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:01 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:Agreed but it tells me one other thing....Black can't be a God of any sort really. Gods can also sense Ki quite easily.
I'm not saying you're wrong, honestly I probably agree with you, but they could easily work around that if they wanted to. Even as simple as to say the process to make him look like Goku, possess his body, or whatever is going on required him to relearn it. It's just something we'll have to wait and watch unfold.
Doctor. wrote:The manga's explanation of how time travel works and why it's dangerous is A LOT more consistent with what we know than what the anime explained.
The anime's explanation isn't wrong or anything, as there is a butterfly effect with the process. They just didn't paint the whole picture. Toyotaro and the anime often have little tidbits in different orders, so hopefully there's some point later on in the anime that gives us reason to delve back into it, rather than the vague explanation they have going on for now.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:45 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:Agreed but it tells me one other thing....Black can't be a God of any sort really. Gods can also sense Ki quite easily.
I'm not saying you're wrong, honestly I probably agree with you, but they could easily work around that if they wanted to. Even as simple as to say the process to make him look like Goku, possess his body, or whatever is going on required him to relearn it. It's just something we'll have to wait and watch unfold.
Doctor. wrote:The manga's explanation of how time travel works and why it's dangerous is A LOT more consistent with what we know than what the anime explained.
The anime's explanation isn't wrong or anything, as there is a butterfly effect with the process. They just didn't paint the whole picture. Toyotaro and the anime often have little tidbits in different orders, so hopefully there's some point later on in the anime that gives us reason to delve back into it, rather than the vague explanation they have going on for now.
Hmm you're right about that. I'd think it to be lazy writing though because sensing Ki never seemed to have any sort of prerequisite other than focusing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:39 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
Miracles wrote:We got some supplemented info that we didn't get in the anime. Goku Black is indeed somehow related to the warriors of earth. Due to him being able to sense ki and with the explanation of the parallel worlds. Could that mean Black is actually Goku? Did anything happen to Goku within any of the timelines in Dragonball?
The parallel worlds info is more important for Trunks, in re-explaining why his world/timeline/dimension/whatever exists and is different from what we know in the main timeline.

You might also be taking the ki sensing thing a little too literally. Black learned to sense ki, like when Vegeta picked up that "Earthling ability" during Saiyan to Namek Arcs. It doesn't really mean Black is related to the warriors of Earth any more than Vegeta was at the time, he simply learned to do what they were capable of during his time on the planet.
I was just posing foods for thought. Trunks last line got me... "Than he's..." after stating ki sense is exclusive to earthlings. I'm asking "Who is he Trunks?" Or "what has he done?" Seems like a few doors are open on that statement. I know it's unlikely especially when Black even stated to Trunks that he is from a "much higher place than you...." and..."I have seen the truth of this world."

However the revelation of the parallel universes might be able to plug in to Black. Zamasu hinted in being Black by Beerus and whis but Goku seems to state otherwise based on ki. Could Zamasu possibly messed up the timeline by taking the ring of time and merging with Goku? Somehow the portarra is going to fit into all of this. I will say this that Toriyama is doing a good job at keeping the mysteries of Black vague.
Last edited by Miracles on Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Meshack » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:18 am

I personally believe that Black is NOT Zamasu because that wouldn't be good writing if it was. I'm pretty sure there's someone else behind this Goku Black mystery, maybe Zamasu is part of it but I don't think it's him.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeztin » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:49 am

Meshack wrote:I personally believe that Black is NOT Zamasu because that wouldn't be good writing if it was. I'm pretty sure there's someone else behind this Goku Black mystery, maybe Zamasu is part of it but I don't think it's him.
Plot twist! It's our Surpreme Kai! :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Regarder » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:52 am

Meshack wrote:I personally believe that Black is NOT Zamasu because that wouldn't be good writing if it was. I'm pretty sure there's someone else behind this Goku Black mystery, maybe Zamasu is part of it but I don't think it's him.
It would be bad writing if it was a totally random person, so they'd have to establish that it could be some specific person who's not Zamasu, however subtly, first.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:40 am

Well, we now have GDM10 trailer, and we all know Dragon Ball Heroes leaks stuff once in a while... In there, Goku Black is fighting Goku and Zamasu is near watching them with a curious smile. Hinting that, at least, Zamasu have some conection to Goku Black.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SansrivaaL » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:51 am

Grimlock wrote:Well, we now have GDM10 trailer, and we all know Dragon Ball Heroes leaks stuff once in a while... In there, Goku Black is fighting Goku and Zamasu is near watching them with a curious smile. Hinting that, at least, Zamasu have some conection to Goku Black.
Zamasu watching them is like he's thinking, "Humanities hope VS Humanities despair, Humanities saviour vs Humantiies worst enemy, How does it feel fighting your own image with opposite ideals, Son Goku?"

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:57 am

The DB Super Heroes trailer definitely makes me feel like Black is a creation of Zamasu rather than straight up Zamasu himself in Goku's body.

But I have a little question in regards to Viz' translation of the manga.
What did they call the poisoned soup Beerus did not deem good enough to spare those aliens' planet in chapter 1?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:37 am

dbgtFO wrote:But I have a little question in regards to Viz' translation of the manga.
What did they call the poisoned soup Beerus did not deem good enough to spare those aliens' planet in chapter 1?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:02 pm

Somthing bugs me about the way F!Trunks talks about Bulma's death, he refers to the event as 'They' got to her, as in to imply that there is more then one person.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kaioken12 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:12 pm

Personally I was not content with a certain page of the latest chapter... when Bulma started asking Whis whether his time rewind would have created a parallel universe, I found this question to be very interesting.
Especially since Whis stated in the anime, how altering the past could affect the future. (But if it would create alternative universes anyways, then what would be the problem of doing so?)

But then the next panels completely evaded any answer to this question and instead, Whis talked about the "cooldown time" on this technique... this was a bit disappointing to me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Chelentano » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:20 pm

kaioken12 wrote:Personally I was not content with a certain page of the latest chapter... when Bulma started asking Whis whether his time rewind would have created a parallel universe, I found this question to be very interesting.
Especially since Whis stated in the anime, how altering the past could affect the future. (But if it would create alternative universes anyways, then what would be the problem of doing so?)

But then the next panels completely evaded any answer to this question and instead, Whis talked about the "cooldown time" on this technique... this was a bit disappointing to me.
Yeah, that's my only issue with this chapter too.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Snow_Lilies » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:30 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote: The anime's explanation isn't wrong or anything, as there is a butterfly effect with the process. They just didn't paint the whole picture. Toyotaro and the anime often have little tidbits in different orders, so hopefully there's some point later on in the anime that gives us reason to delve back into it, rather than the vague explanation they have going on for now.
I'm a bit confused as to what specific information people are looking for? When you step back from the DragonBall universe for a bit, forget that our heroes are the protagonists, and look at the big picture, Trunks and Cell's trips to the past eventually had such large cascade effects such as killing 99.99% of Earthlings for a time, having the Earth blow up (twice), and creating the circumstances for two mortal warriors to ascend to powers that approach Beerus, the God of Destruction. I think the events of the main timeline and its contrast to Trunks's timeline are enough evidence of the effects of time travel itself. Is there some other explanation we really need to make the picture clearer in this regard? If anything Whis seemed to mostly be illustrating in broad hypothetical terms what we the audience already would've understood just from comparing the outcome of all the known timeline branches.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kaioken12 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:52 pm

You know, this is precisely what I fail to understand. In timeline A stuff happened. Cool. Great.
Then somebody goes back in time, changes something and we get timeline A'. So then there is a big butterfly effect. Let's say, Earth is blown up. But this is exclusive to A'.
If you would travel back in time from A' and prevent Earth from being blown up and then let other stuff happen, you end up in A''. And so on...

But in any case, in A things stay exactly the same. Same stuff as before happened. All the same.
In A' different things have happened that might possibly lead to a significantly different future, but in no way does this concern or change anything for A or A''. Etc. etc...


So unless they would provide us with a tidbit of information, like "If too many parallel universes exist, everything will blow up.", I fail to see the significance of any statement regarding meddling with time.

EDIT: Same would go for the time rings. Unless they do *not* create parallel timelines/universes, I do not see at this point, how anyone would even care, if a Kaioshin could travel to the past and by chance would decide to change anything there.
It would just create a copy universe, leaving the original one effectively untouched.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:10 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:But I have a little question in regards to Viz' translation of the manga.
What did they call the poisoned soup Beerus did not deem good enough to spare those aliens' planet in chapter 1?
Soup D’Saian Gahd
Thank you. That sounds about right :D

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