"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:01 pm

fexus wrote:So, Toyotaro ruined Zamasu and Black character. What a boring way to go out.
This is ridiculous! We didn't even see much of them yet, how did he ruin anything?
"It didn't happen exactly like the anime, so it's ruined!!! REEEE"

Really? This fanbase sometimes man

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:05 pm

ryou766 wrote:I have no issues with this chapter and I seem to be one of the very few who likes how Black allowed Trunks to live just so he can continue to fight him again. Remember guys, he DID mention how it would be boring if no one were around to oppose him (guess this doesn't apply to Future Beerus since Black knows he'd be overwhelmed) but those are the result of the Saiyan cells from Goku's body.

Also, I love how close Toyotaro's Goku is to Toriyama's. Thank god Toyotaro didn't make it so he didn't forget the senzu beans in the bathroom like in the anime..

Black having a troubled face does bother me.. But it can also be interrupted as a confused expression similar to how he looked when he entered the past in the anime.
It's called being a Bond villain and one of the reasons why I liked Black was because he didn't do crap like this. He may fool around, but in the end he will kill you if you stay in his way, no questions ask. And if he was so concern with becoming bored, he would have fought the Gods of Destruction directly instead of cheesing it and taking out the Supreme Kais. He also should be happy to see Goku and Vegeta instead of, 'huh?'.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ryou766 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:14 pm

HeroR wrote:It's called being a Bond villain and one of the reasons why I liked Black was because he didn't do crap like this. He may fool around, but in the end he will kill you if you stay in his way, no questions ask. And if he was so concern with becoming bored, he would have fought the Gods of Destruction directly instead of cheesing it and taking out the Supreme Kais. He also should be happy to see Goku and Vegeta instead of, 'huh?'.
While I do understand where this is coming from, I prefer this over Black simply just losing sight of Trunks EVERY single time throughout the years he's been fighting with him. Whether it be from Trunks' quick speed, or the excessive use of tear gas. There HAD to be a point where Trunks was beaten up severely that there was no chance to escape. Personally, I've always liked the, "you can run, for now. But just now that you're only living BECAUSE of me. I could've killed you if I wanted to." Even though it always comes to bite them on the ass in the future.
Last edited by ryou766 on Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:14 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Listening to all of these timeline debates really makes me wish Trunks just up and fucked off permanently from this franchise. We really didn't need him to convoluted this premise.
Me too, what a disgusting piece of character he had become in this arc and all the dicussion about timelines in the franchise in general went even more complicated because of him.
micah007 wrote:I hope Whis being neutral doesn't mean we won't see a serious battle with him. If that is going to be the case at least let Beerus cut loose at some point.
I hope this too, it's a shame to never see a opponent/villain that could give trouble to Beerus/Whis yet. I want to see both fight 100%
emperior wrote:I honestly hope Toei comes out and tells clearly how things work there, so people will stop blaming it on them and consider Toriyama like a God. He is still incredibly good at writing good DB stories but obviously he can't satisfy each of the fans he has, considering his franchise has a huge fanbase. It also looks like he has no editor (maybe Toei is acting like AT's editor?) and the guy is forgetful. DBS is probably never going to be as good as DBZ but is still very good and no episode 66 can change that.
Yeah, because basically things are like this:
Toriyama idea = Amazing and well done
Toei idea = Lame and stupid

When both actually can be bad, it doesn't really matter much if Toriyama or Toei were behind all the illogical/bad stuff presented in the franchise, both can be blamed for it. People tends to deify everything the original author do
Last edited by Noah on Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:24 pm

ryou766 wrote:
HeroR wrote:It's called being a Bond villain and one of the reasons why I liked Black was because he didn't do crap like this. He may fool around, but in the end he will kill you if you stay in his way, no questions ask. And if he was so concern with becoming bored, he would have fought the Gods of Destruction directly instead of cheesing it and taking out the Supreme Kais. He also should be happy to see Goku and Vegeta instead of, 'huh?'.
While I do understand where this is coming from, I prefer this over Black simply just losing sight of Trunks EVERY single time throughout the years he's been fighting with him. Whether it be from Trunks' quick speed, or the excessive use of tear gas. There HAD to be a point where Trunks was beaten up severely that there was no chance to escape. Personally, I've always liked the, "you can run, for now. But just now that you're only living BECAUSE of me. I could've killed you if I wanted to." Even though it always comes to bite them on the ass in the future.
That trope would be fine…if almost every villain in the series didn't do it outside of King Piccolo, Super, Kid Buu. I mean, they did this with the future androids who kept Trunks alive for years to used as their personal punching bag. Did we really need Black doing the same thing? Trunks being able to survive a year with Black actively trying to kill him made sense since Black had trouble sense ki and Trunks is used to ducking and weaving after living with the androids.

And again, if Black was so worried about being bored, he should have fought the Gods of Destruction instead of cheesing it or attack the present where all the Z-Fighters are still alive instead of finding a timeline without them, according to Beerus. The manga makes Black look like a cowardly school bully who picks on those weaker than him, but then acts like a punk when faced with someone equal or stronger.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:27 pm

Sherlock and Batman are somewhere sitting in a corner crying in jealousy at the level of deductive skills among the main cast. How they managed to piece together that Zamasu switched bodies with Goku using the Super Dragon Balls and thus Goku Black was born was ridiculous. I really don't like how the cast so quickly figured out how Zamasu entire plan with so little details. It's really kinda asspull-ish how everyone figured it out so quickly. All the mystique and mystery about the Future Trunks arc in the manga pretty much died in this chapter. The one month format is seriously damaging the narrative for the manga.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Basako » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:31 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Sherlock and Batman are somewhere sitting in a corner crying in jealousy at the level of deductive skills among the main cast. How they managed to piece together that Zamasu switched bodies with Goku using the Super Dragon Balls and thus Goku Black was born was ridiculous. I really don't like how the cast so quickly figured out how Zamasu entire plan with so little details. It's really kinda asspull-ish how everyone figured it out so quickly. All the mystique and mystery about the Future Trunks in the manga pretty much died in this chapter. The one month format is seriously damaging the narrative for the manga.
What about Zuno telling Kibito that Zamasu was asking about the dragon balls and if it's possible to swich bodies with a mortal with them? Well, you don't have to be Sherlock to deduce that Zamasu is Black with that information.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:32 pm

HeroR wrote:
ryou766 wrote:
HeroR wrote:It's called being a Bond villain and one of the reasons why I liked Black was because he didn't do crap like this. He may fool around, but in the end he will kill you if you stay in his way, no questions ask. And if he was so concern with becoming bored, he would have fought the Gods of Destruction directly instead of cheesing it and taking out the Supreme Kais. He also should be happy to see Goku and Vegeta instead of, 'huh?'.
While I do understand where this is coming from, I prefer this over Black simply just losing sight of Trunks EVERY single time throughout the years he's been fighting with him. Whether it be from Trunks' quick speed, or the excessive use of tear gas. There HAD to be a point where Trunks was beaten up severely that there was no chance to escape. Personally, I've always liked the, "you can run, for now. But just now that you're only living BECAUSE of me. I could've killed you if I wanted to." Even though it always comes to bite them on the ass in the future.
That trope would be fine…if almost every villain in the series didn't do it outside of King Piccolo, Super, Kid Buu. I mean, they did this with the future androids who kept Trunks alive for years to used as their personal punching bag. Did we really need Black doing the same thing? Trunks being able to survive a year with Black actively trying to kill him made sense since Black had trouble sense ki and Trunks is used to ducking and weaving after living with the androids.

And again, if Black was so worried about being bored, he should have fought the Gods of Destruction instead of cheesing it or attack the present where all the Z-Fighters are still alive instead of finding a timeline without them, according to Beerus. The manga makes Black look like a cowardly school bully who picks on those weaker than him, but then acts like a punk when faced with someone equal or stronger.
Black did the exact same thing in the anime. He found FT world, then killed all the kaios so the gods of destruction couldn't wreck his shit. He also tried to prevent Goku and Vegeta from coming to the future by destroying their time machine in the past, and was equally shocked when they still returned to the future, saying "I thought I destroyed that time machine"

You're creating problems and complaints about things that flat out don't exist. The only differences between the manga and anime this chapter is no resistance at the moment, and everyone finding out Black's identity before going to the future.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:38 pm

OLKv3 wrote: Black did the exact same thing in the anime. He found FT world, then killed all the kaios so the gods of destruction couldn't wreck his shit. He also tried to prevent Goku and Vegeta from coming to the future by destroying their time machine in the past, and was equally shocked when they still returned to the future, saying "I thought I destroyed that time machine"

You're creating problems and complaints about things that flat out don't exist. The only differences between the manga and anime this chapter is no resistance at the moment, and everyone finding out Black's identity before going to the future.
There's a big difference. In the anime, Black never once complained about being bored or keeping Trunks alive for his amusement. Future Zamasu actually had to tell Black to take his time killing Goku to get the max out of him because Black just wanted to kill him.

Black loves to fight, but he didn't let that get in the way of his pragmatist outside of not wishing for immortality nor did he complain about a lack of challenge.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:40 pm

Wait is there only going to be one more chapter left of this saga?

The manga is supposed to be pulling a head of the anime soon which I'd guess would be the January chapter and certainly no later than the February chapter.

If there is only one more chapter then they'd have to leave out a lot of stuff from the anime. They made three separate trips intonthe future in the anime, probably only going to be the one in the manga so no mafuba.

What if Future Zamasu and him showing up to fight alongside Black isn't a thing in the manga? It'd mean no Merged Zamasu or Vegito either. Trunks probably won't get a new form in the manga etc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by phattangent » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:42 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Sherlock and Batman are somewhere sitting in a corner crying in jealousy at the level of deductive skills among the main cast. How they managed to piece together that Zamasu switched bodies with Goku using the Super Dragon Balls and thus Goku Black was born was ridiculous. I really don't like how the cast so quickly figured out how Zamasu entire plan with so little details. It's really kinda asspull-ish how everyone figured it out so quickly. All the mystique and mystery about the Future Trunks in the manga pretty much died in this chapter. The one month format is seriously damaging the narrative for the manga.
They pulled a Velma from Scooby-Doo.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:46 pm

Basako wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Sherlock and Batman are somewhere sitting in a corner crying in jealousy at the level of deductive skills among the main cast. How they managed to piece together that Zamasu switched bodies with Goku using the Super Dragon Balls and thus Goku Black was born was ridiculous. I really don't like how the cast so quickly figured out how Zamasu entire plan with so little details. It's really kinda asspull-ish how everyone figured it out so quickly. All the mystique and mystery about the Future Trunks in the manga pretty much died in this chapter. The one month format is seriously damaging the narrative for the manga.
What about Zuno telling Kibito that Zamasu was asking about the dragon balls and if it's possible to swich bodies with a mortal with them? Well, you don't have to be Sherlock to deduce that Zamasu is Black with that information.
Zuno never specifically said it was Zamasu. He just told Kibito it was a rogue Kaioshin in Universe 10. And there are several Kaioshin in every universe. How did they so quickly come to the conclusion it was Zamasu?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ryou766 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:48 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Basako wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Sherlock and Batman are somewhere sitting in a corner crying in jealousy at the level of deductive skills among the main cast. How they managed to piece together that Zamasu switched bodies with Goku using the Super Dragon Balls and thus Goku Black was born was ridiculous. I really don't like how the cast so quickly figured out how Zamasu entire plan with so little details. It's really kinda asspull-ish how everyone figured it out so quickly. All the mystique and mystery about the Future Trunks in the manga pretty much died in this chapter. The one month format is seriously damaging the narrative for the manga.
What about Zuno telling Kibito that Zamasu was asking about the dragon balls and if it's possible to swich bodies with a mortal with them? Well, you don't have to be Sherlock to deduce that Zamasu is Black with that information.
Zuno never specifically said it was Zamasu. He just told Kibito it was a rogue Kaioshin in Universe 10. And there are several Kaioshin in every universe. How did they so quickly come to the conclusion it was Zamasu?
He did say it was Zamasu.
Kibito: “It seems that Zamasu from Universe 10 came to ask about the Super Dragon Balls…”
4
Beerus: “Zamasu? Who’s he?”
5
Kaioshin: “A Kaio from Universe 10. He’s supposed to be serving as apprentice to the Kaioshin there.”
6

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kishido » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:51 pm

So what now about the Kiss scene? Is if even more implied that Goku never kissed Chi Chi.

If yes... Holy shit he is a certified G. Makign 2 kids and still haveing a women cooking all the time for him without never actually kissing her.

But this explains Chi Chi's bad mood and why in no hell her children should end like him.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by wertham » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:55 pm

How I think Toyotaro can handle the following chapters:

Vegeta fights Black, he transforms in Super Saiyan Rosé. Beerus kills Zamasu in the present and believes the job is done. Zamasu then appears to Goku and Vegeta in the future, not only alive, but being inmortal. He explains all the time paradox, and they fight. Zamasu is unstoppable and Goku, Vegeta & Trunks get beaten. They return to the present. Gathering of characters, with A-18, Krilin and Piccolo (maybe with Gohan and Videl? Then we can have all Trunks interactions from the anime at once). Piccolo talks about the Mafuba. Goku or Trunks go to learn the Mafuba from Roshi, Vegeta and Trunks / Goku train. They go back to the future with Bulma. Goku or Trunks do the Mafuba but is not effective because Roshi forgot about the amulet thing (or maybe is Goku's fault: this time he's not so stupid because he doesn't forgot two different things in two time travels, but only once). Then the same developments of chapter 66 but better handled with Trunks clearly absorbing all life's energy in a moment of truly desperation. Aaand whatever the ending of tonight's episode is.

BTW, Arale would be an awesome friend for Zeno :lol:

And of course, "Goku never kissed" gag is stupid and unnecessary, it doesn't matter if it was Toriyama or Toei's idea. Moving on :?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by micah007 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:56 pm

I'm still curious as to how he's going to pull ahead in the manga. I'd give him two more chapters to wrap this up, at an accelerated pace but even then before one of those chapters the anime will be starting the next big arc. The monthly pacing really doesn't help here, he would need to be bi-monthly and still keep the same page count if he wants to get ahead and stay ahead of the anime, since he said information from him will be going back to the anime once he's ahead.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:00 pm

ryou766 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Basako wrote:
What about Zuno telling Kibito that Zamasu was asking about the dragon balls and if it's possible to swich bodies with a mortal with them? Well, you don't have to be Sherlock to deduce that Zamasu is Black with that information.
Zuno never specifically said it was Zamasu. He just told Kibito it was a rogue Kaioshin in Universe 10. And there are several Kaioshin in every universe. How did they so quickly come to the conclusion it was Zamasu?
He did say it was Zamasu.
Kibito: “It seems that Zamasu from Universe 10 came to ask about the Super Dragon Balls…”
4
Beerus: “Zamasu? Who’s he?”
5
Kaioshin: “A Kaio from Universe 10. He’s supposed to be serving as apprentice to the Kaioshin there.”
6
Ah, how'd I miss that? I stand corrected.

It's still major bullshit how they all immediately jump to the conclusion that Zamasu used the Super Dragon Balls to switch bodies with Goku. And why would Zamasu even specifically choose Goku? Because he saw some clips on him on Godtube and the he knows other Gods? Fuck that flimsy ass motive.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:09 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
ryou766 wrote: He did say it was Zamasu.
Kibito: “It seems that Zamasu from Universe 10 came to ask about the Super Dragon Balls…”
4
Beerus: “Zamasu? Who’s he?”
5
Kaioshin: “A Kaio from Universe 10. He’s supposed to be serving as apprentice to the Kaioshin there.”
6
Ah, how'd I miss that? I stand corrected.

It's still major bullshit how they all immediately jump to the conclusion that Zamasu used the Super Dragon Balls to switch bodies with Goku. And why would even specifically choose Goku? Because he saw some clips on him on Godtube and the he knows other Gods? Fuck that flimsy ass motive.
How indeed. Herms has the entire Manga script on the last page, where Kibito also told them, that Zamasu asked Zuno, if the Super DBs could be used to switch bodies between a god and a mortal.
That's how they figure out Zamasu switched bodies with Goku.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:11 pm

phattangent wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
phattangent wrote:Doesn't that already make sense though, even if we don't know the reasons?
No because if in every loop Beerus knows that Zamasu would kill Gozawa, kill Kaioshin, kill Beerus, and be come Black, why would Beerus in any version of the loop EVER allow all that to happen. That's a pretty significant consequence to just deciding Zamasu to live so people would obviously want to know what was different that one time to allow Black to be created in the first place.
I see. That makes sense.
Draconic wrote:Beerus kills Zamasu because Trunks comes back in time because Black is attacking his timeline. The events of Black's creation already transpired, for a Black to exist in the first place, so Beerus serves to split the timeline like in the anime. Black's origin is no longer a paradox, but his mere existence is one, caused by the Time Ring.
That makes even more sense.

I'm liking the manga's interpretation of this more and more.
Yep that's what the big debate is about.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Basako » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:13 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:It's still major bullshit how they all immediately jump to the conclusion that Zamasu used the Super Dragon Balls to switch bodies with Goku. And why would even specifically choose Goku? Because he saw some clips on him on Godtube and the he knows other Gods? Fuck that flimsy ass motive.
No, it's not. It is shown how they deduce that step by step. First, Zamasu was asking for the dragon balls too, they know that. Then, Trunks says Goku is dead in his timeline, it wasn't even necessary, but he does. Finally, they notice Zamasu can use the rings if Zamasu is wearing the earrings of the same colour Gowasu has, and a flashback of Trunks fighting with Black and his earring is shown, so they get that Zamasu is travelling through time and timelines. They just put all the pieces of the puzzle together, it's totally fine.

And we have still some revelations left for the characters that went to fight, like finding the other Zamasu there or when Goku knows that Chichi and Goten were killed. There is good stuff for the next chapters, not to talk about the fights.
Last edited by Basako on Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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