"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:40 am

Rhuagh wrote:The scene of Goku being pinned down by Black and Zamasu was cool, until you realize that Goku could just have gone SSJBlue Kaioken x10 and killed Black. Then it's just embarrassing. This Kaioken bs is the worst addition Toei has done to Super, the FT Arc just doesn't work with it. The manga doesn't have this problem.
Goku can't go kaioken in the manga, that technique dosen't work with blue in that continuity until stated otherwise..

But the kaioken is an odd addition nonetheless, x2 would be fine but x10 and still being weaker than berrus is too much
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rhuagh » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:43 am

Ki Breaker wrote:
Rhuagh wrote:The scene of Goku being pinned down by Black and Zamasu was cool, until you realize that Goku could just have gone SSJBlue Kaioken x10 and killed Black. Then it's just embarrassing. This Kaioken bs is the worst addition Toei has done to Super, the FT Arc just doesn't work with it. The manga doesn't have this problem.
Goku can't go kaioken in the manga, that technique dosen't work with blue in that continuity until stated otherwise..

But the kaioken is an odd addition nonetheless, x2 would be fine but x10 and still being weaker than berrus is too much
"The manga doesn't have this problem."

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:44 am

Rhuagh wrote:The scene of Goku being pinned down by Black and Zamasu was cool, until you realize that Goku could just have gone SSJBlue Kaioken x10 and killed Black. Then it's just embarrassing. This Kaioken bs is the worst addition Toei has done to Super, the FT Arc just doesn't work with it. The manga doesn't have this problem.
When Goku used Kaioken against Merged Zamasu it put him out of commission immediately, and that was only x2. He can't risk just being unable to fight in the middle of a battle to the death, he'd get slaughtered.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:48 am

Rhuagh wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:
Rhuagh wrote:The scene of Goku being pinned down by Black and Zamasu was cool, until you realize that Goku could just have gone SSJBlue Kaioken x10 and killed Black. Then it's just embarrassing. This Kaioken bs is the worst addition Toei has done to Super, the FT Arc just doesn't work with it. The manga doesn't have this problem.
Goku can't go kaioken in the manga, that technique dosen't work with blue in that continuity until stated otherwise..

But the kaioken is an odd addition nonetheless, x2 would be fine but x10 and still being weaker than berrus is too much
"The manga doesn't have this problem."
"The scene of Goku being pinned down by Black and Zamasu was cool, until you realize that Goku could just have gone SSJBlue Kaioken x10 and killed Black"

The way your sentence was structured led to believe you were talking about manga not going kaioken..
It's fine, we are on the same boat here..

For your real answer, nothing more to contribute than what TheUltimateNinja did..
Kaioken isn't a technique he can use anytime with blue
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Pannaliciour » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:15 am

I dont know this chapter was a waist. How are they ever going to keep up with the anime. There atleast 3 chapters before they make it to the new arc.

The good thing was that Black said dont worrie I wont destroy the planet put only the humans makes sense.

Yeah the time travell thing. Yeah it is a mess but atleast it makes sense.

Another thing:When things get explain in anime (like the vegetto split up) its all bullshit but when this happens in the manga its all yeah manga is way better than anime in things that Toriyama didnt explain back then . Weird fan base.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj_duelist » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:19 am

Oh wow, the manga is kicking the anime's ass right now. No SS Rage asspull, extra plot with the Kai to make them more useful, less filler going back and fourth through time, more explanations of time travel as well (paralleled world, have to be 1 day, makes perfect sense and always suspected this). And the Gowasu Black confrontation is excellent. Black just killed the Elephant GoD as well technically from current timeline!

And Black explaining he doesn't want to destroy planets, just mortals, explains why he hasn't destroyed Earth yet and wants to keep nature intact and animals.

Really enjoying this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:04 am

Boo Machine wrote: And to be fair "Rage boost" is never stated to be an exclusive form or technique that only Gohan could use. It just so happens that gohan abused it the most and nothing says no one else can gain from anger. It wouldn't be the most creative thing in the world, granted.
Vegeta and Goku have both done it too. Gohan's was just a bigger deal since he was always teased at having huge hidden power. Trunks is a human/saiyan hybrid too so really there's no reason it shouldn't work for him.

It's been a while since I've read/watched the Cell saga, but doesn't Bulma's explanation of the time machine in this chapter create a plot hole regarding Cell and when he arrived in the present?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:36 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Boo Machine wrote: And to be fair "Rage boost" is never stated to be an exclusive form or technique that only Gohan could use. It just so happens that gohan abused it the most and nothing says no one else can gain from anger. It wouldn't be the most creative thing in the world, granted.
Vegeta and Goku have both done it too. Gohan's was just a bigger deal since he was always teased at having huge hidden power. Trunks is a human/saiyan hybrid too so really there's no reason it shouldn't work for him.

It's been a while since I've read/watched the Cell saga, but doesn't Bulma's explanation of the time machine in this chapter create a plot hole regarding Cell and when he arrived in the present?
No, Cell's time travel still fits perfectly actually.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:40 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:It's been a while since I've read/watched the Cell saga, but doesn't Bulma's explanation of the time machine in this chapter create a plot hole regarding Cell and when he arrived in the present?
No, actually the whole deal with Cell works perfectly fine with the "same time passes in all timelines" thing. I'm on mobile so I can't direct you to it, but go check out Speedster's thread about it, he has it in his sig.
In any case he said he would be completed 24 years from the time he faced Piccolo and since he came from age 788, that means the actual age, the Cell arc takes place in is 764 and not 767, as it is officially.
As I have already stated a couple of times the Trunks special is where we were introduced to the 8 months charge time(it's never stated to be universal, though) and it made the mistake of saying Trunks should go back 17 years and not 20, like originally.
There is where this 17 year business comes from.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Pantheon » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:57 am

I finally made an account after lurking here since the start of super so i have a whole load of things I want to talk about now that I can.

The first thing I want to do is rant about the Manga version of the Future Trunks arc.
There is quite a few things bothering me that i have not seen a lot of people bring up such as:

Future trunks just happens to time travel to the exact day that Zamasu turns evil. In the anime Zamasu turning evil is speed up because trunks causes events to go in motion leading to him doing things earlier.
In the manga it was just apparently the 17 year anniversary of Zamasu becoming evil, it just feels so random and contrived. Toyotaro always trys to go some logical route that just ends up being less logical and raising more questions.

It also really takes away from the story the fact that Zamasu and Goku never meet it feels so random and less personal it feels like it's just filling a plot point.

Another thing is no matter how many times I read the chapter i still can't figure out how they came to the conclusion Black was Zamasu its like Black just sat down with Trunks explained his whole backstory in detail and Trunks just parroted it to Whis who just took a random guess and as they were guessing information just so happened to fall into their hands that connects the dots. It feels so contrived and just trying to move the plot along without putting any effort in.

In the manga we are led to believe that the u7 Supreme Kai has been in contact with other universe this entire time. Throughout Z we were led to believe Shin was incompetent because he had no one to teach him. If he was in contact with other universe couldn't he go ask for help, either being taught by another kai or replacing those who died to Majin Buu.

One more thing i wonder its not necessarily a problem but it has implications. In the manga Shin has his own time ring. I feel that if he always had it it would have had a use in Z. he could have used it to find out where Majin Buu was or numerous other times during the Buu saga.

Another thing i don't like but understand because of the shortness of the material is that none of the character feel like characters. They are all the exposition dumps to spout out stuff that move along the plot. Black suffered the most from this to the point of being basically a non-character.

That's enough for now :P but i still have a lot of stuff I want to get of my chest.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Draconic » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:03 am

People in real life get "rage boosts". Gohan was a big deal because he could only release his hidden power (as in power already there which rivaled the likes of trained warriors like Goku, Piccolo, Raditz) trough strong emotions. Hell, not every boost he gets is done necessary by anger. He got them trough fear too, like when Piccolo throws him at a mountain. The concept of rage boost seems to be so ingrained in the collective mind that the implications of it get lost.

Not to say I have anything against calling them that, since it is a well encompasing term, but it's not as simple as "you get angry you get a power up". Hell, before this arc the concept of "turning anger into power" was never adressed. I guess gaining Super Saiyan like that fits the bill, but again, it's just one of the requirements, not the sheer source of power.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:10 am

dbgtFO wrote:
BlueBasilisk wrote:It's been a while since I've read/watched the Cell saga, but doesn't Bulma's explanation of the time machine in this chapter create a plot hole regarding Cell and when he arrived in the present?
No, actually the whole deal with Cell works perfectly fine with the "same time passes in all timelines" thing. I'm on mobile so I can't direct you to it, but go check out Speedster's thread about it, he has it in his sig.
In any case he said he would be completed 24 years from the time he faced Piccolo and since he came from age 788, that means the actual age, the Cell arc takes place in is 764 and not 767, as it is officially.
As I have already stated a couple of times the Trunks special is where we were introduced to the 8 months charge time(it's never stated to be universal, though) and it made the mistake of saying Trunks should go back 17 years and not 20, like originally.
There is where this 17 year business comes from.
Wait a minute, this makes no sense. Wouldn't we end up in Age 767 regardless just by counting the number of years since the start of Z?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Totamo » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:19 am

Boo Machine wrote:
Totamo wrote:
HeroR wrote:
And as I said, it is only the most vocal people, just like most of Super.



No, it's because Manga Black is extremely lame.
Its not the nost vocal if every db tuber is calling trunks a gary stu. there was even a topic with 13 pages just complaining about his character on this forum.
I think a Youtuber would fit into the category of "Most Vocal".

That's the thing about the vocal people. They are the only ones you hear.

A gary stu is far more than just 2 out of nowhere powers. If Trunks had single handedly beat everyone with no sweat, while Goku and vegeta were in awe about how they wish they were as cool as trunks while he gets promoted to the position of Omni King and then rode a motorcycle into the sky to claim his throne , then the "gary stu" thing would have some traction.
Totamo wrote: That seen was cool, don't get me wrong but it made no sense and threw powerscale put of whack.

Golu doesn't get rage boosts, thats gohan. Everytime he has gone into a battle full on rage, he got the shit kicked out of him.
How did it throw the Power scale out of whack? It didn't amount to anything. He put up a better fight for a bit, then got his ass kicked again. It was barely a boost to begin with.

And to be fair "Rage boost" is never stated to be an exclusive form or technique that only Gohan could use. It just so happens that gohan abused it the most and nothing says no one else can gain from anger. It wouldn't be the most creative thing in the world, granted.
Goku has been angry before, with tao pipi and tambourine, he almost died! Vegeta got angry at perfect cell, he almost died

Anger is used to trigger transformations but never boost power like this.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:25 am

Totamo wrote: Goku has been angry before, with tao pipi and tambourine, he almost died! Vegeta got angry at perfect cell, he almost died

Anger is used to trigger transformations but never boost power like this.
That's because with Tao Pai Pai and Perfect Cell the gap was absolutely huge, and with Tambourine Goku was hungry and thus unable to bring out his full power. Once he ate Yajirobe's fish he wrecked Tambourine easily.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Basako » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:57 am

I liked this chapter, I think it was very good.

I commented about the time machine issue before. I will say I don't think it's a retcon. Other times the machine was reset to change the amount of years from the departing timeline, Trunks in his second travel and also Cell that didn't travel the same amount of years either. Bulma is talking about this specific moment, now it can't be reset, we are not given a reason, even more, the link between the two timelines is fading, this will be the last time. I guess they will be able to use it one more time to come back, Bulma will travel with them like in the anime for sure. But the other extra travel to bring Zeno? I think things may be different, which I hope.

The two saiyans retreat but Trunks and Mai stay in the future. The cat, not sure if it's Scratch or a different one, escapes with them, natural survivor. In one hand, Vegeta goes to the RoSaT, he seems confident when he gets out, without breaking Dende's temple, thank god. I think we may have again some power sacaling problems like the previous two chapters, but, for now, we don't know. On the other, Goku goes to learn the Mafuba with his old master. All the explanation that Roshi tells about the techique are great, but the anime was funnier this time, with Goku training with the turtle. The seal, I think Goku is going to forget it like in the anime. One more important thing, Piccolo is not there, I don't think Bulma will have the Youtube tutorial video of the Mafuba, so I think Trunks is not going to be the one performing it, which is a relief for me. Goku spent a day learning it, he should be the one using it, although it will be for nothing.

In the other timeline, we have the fight. The power difference is inmense and the power scale makes total sense this time. I'm glad the manga didn't go with the SSRage transformation, it didn't make any sense to me. Does it mean I wouldn't have liked if Trunks had had a way to fight Black more evenly? No, just not at any price, like in the anime. I would have liked a boost to SS3, considering his SS2 was already that high. Even better, they could have done the SSG ritual for him before going. In any case, I didn't like the transformation that Toei made up. For that, I prefer he stays as he is.

This time the Kaioshins come to the rescue, which is great, in the end, all this mess is about them, they should be involved. Gowasu feels guilty and makes the stupid move of trying to help his apprentice. Which brings us a great moment, when Black stabs him and explains how he did it the other two times. Black is great in the manga, those eyelines and his madness. It's Goku's face but totally mad and evil! Now the quetion is, is Gowasu dead? We'll see, I think Goku and Vegeta will make it in time to cure his injury.

By the way, Mai getting the sword, looks like it will have a role, probably like in the anime. But can't be the same, the enemies confirmed that they have killed the last survivors on this chapter. It's good to know, because the way a Genkidama happened without anybody making the move was bad as Hell.

I think we'll need other two chapters to end this arc. Fusions, please! I prefer Vegetto, but it would be nice to have a canon Gogeta too, so I don't care.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LuckyCat » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:50 pm

See, this is what I don't like about this arc. The whole thing could be solved by just going to a previous time in the future like Goku said, but the problem is that would be a "different" future. If the manga ends the same way as the anime however, Trunks is going to be stuck in a different future anyway, so it all feels like a huge waste.

But this chapter does confirm one thing; the time machine works more like sliding into parallel universes than actual time travel.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:02 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: In any case he said he would be completed 24 years from the time he faced Piccolo and since he came from age 788, that means the actual age, the Cell arc takes place in is 764 and not 767, as it is officially.
Wait a minute, this makes no sense. Wouldn't we end up in Age 767 regardless just by counting the number of years since the start of Z?
You will have to show me what you mean.
In any case Trunks realizing Cell came from Age 788 is the only time a specific year is mentioned and where all the dates logically derive from by counting backwards using the limited and at times contradictory information.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:05 pm

LuckyCat wrote:See, this is what I don't like about this arc. The whole thing could be solved by just going to a previous time in the future like Goku said, but the problem is that would be a "different" future. If the manga ends the same way as the anime however, Trunks is going to be stuck in a different future anyway, so it all feels like a huge waste.

But this chapter does confirm one thing; the time machine works more like sliding into parallel universes than actual time travel.
This was already confirmed in the Cell arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:07 pm

"The hell with Rose, that fucking prick!"
Gotta love 'translations'

Overall, a rather borning chapter. But at least it wasn't bad
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RehBeh » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:11 pm

Kanassa wrote:"The hell with Rose, that fucking prick!"
Gotta love 'translations'

Overall, a rather borning chapter. But at least it wasn't bad
Borning? :lol:
GT wasn't that bad
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ekrolo2 wrote: He is, its just that no one holds him in high esteem, even in-universe.
He must feel awful. Being a God and no one respects him. Just sad.
And Zamasu thought he had it bad. Fuckin' edgy Kaios thinking about "Justice" and shit just because they got strong by chance.

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