"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by fexus » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:03 am

Zephyr wrote: ...
Beerus is find. He's just not important at first. He developed later on.

Not bound sure but don't get upset that people complain that the manga isn't doing as good of a job making an exciting story as the anime.

I think he always was. I mean fruit people before Goku never have any reason to take non fruit people as apprentice.

I remember that I already wrote down that Dende is a magic namekian or something like that. What I said there is just to clarify that I wouldn't care if Trunks got healing through being a Guardian as it's an open job.

I don't really understand you. Excitement, sadness, anger, happiness all of those are important. You need that in your work for it to be remembered. You need it in your work for it to be good. If your work is sterile and lifeless, what's the use of creating that said work. Your work need to get the attention of your reader. You can make the most well written piece of instruction manual that have ever been written but without taking the attention of your reader, what's is even the use of even making your work? Not saying that Super anime is the most exciting thing that have ever been made but it's leagues better than the manga. If you say that rewatching the anime is going to be a slog, the manga would be even more so. Those few minute that you say I can read through the manga, I can do something else in those few minutes as how boring the manga is. It isn't gripping, it is nothing. Even the cliff hanger doesn't excite me. Do you read something you find boring? Will you read it like that? For the anime, there are episodes that you can skip but you don't like for people to do that? There are summaries for every episode. Well, what I'm saying here is that the manga for all intents and purposes is just sterile and boring. I mean I can't blame it as it does start out as a side thing for the anime. So, there's that.

The first part is you seem to complain about the production. Which is fair as it's not as good. But Super high are better than any of the Z high. Other than that, I can agree with all of the other part that you're saying besides the opening and the grain. First opening is still good and the film grain things feels more like a nitpick. Manga made by one person, still doesn't look like Toriyama but at least he tried right? With all the trac... I mean references, Toyotaro is doing a mighty good job. But I'm going to say this, I do prefer better production. I would like if they use the anime story instead of Toyotaro CRAZY new ideas for the manga and I want the anime to look better but I'll settle for what I get right now.

What's with all this short, short, short and short. If you wanted it short, well that's you. I don't care. The ending we know but we don't know what happens in between. They also have the option to not follow the current ending, that would be fine too. But if you say that making a story this big in that small time gap is bad, I have to disagree. They are doing a good job here. The characters still manage to change and develop even if they don't change too much. The stories are interesting. And the time gap of 10 years isn't too small actually. I mean how long did it take for the Saiyan arc to finish? The Cell arc? Buu arc? The retelling is done I think for the sake of the schedule. They instantly started production when they see that the movies was doing well. They need Toriyama to create new stories. They need for people who don't watch the movie not to be left out. And no, people need to know what happen before. Dragon Ball before sure have those chapters where you can jump in but there's also part that you need to read the chapters before for you to understand. Same as Z. You can't jump in the middle of the Cell arc and expect to understand what happen before. That's stupid. People can only start with Z because there's a timeskip that conveniently make it jump to a new arc.

Well the last part of your post is obvious. I agree Z is good. But saying Super is bad is just wrong. The manga may look good but it isn't interesting. Just feel I need to tell that again. But this is my last part. The story, characters and events that happen are not freaking nitpicks. If the characters are bad, the story aren't interesting then it isn't a nitpick. It's a legitimate complaint. STOP saying that taking apart the manga because of the characters and the flow of the story is nitpicking because it isn't. I don't care what you support, you don't have to tell me. Well, that's it. But your definition of nitpicking is really weird though.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PeanutSaiyan » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:20 am

fexus wrote: Beerus is find. He's just not important at first. He developed later on.

Not bound sure but don't get upset that people complain that the manga isn't doing as good of a job making an exciting story as the anime.

I think he always was. I mean fruit people before Goku never have any reason to take non fruit people as apprentice.

I remember that I already wrote down that Dende is a magic namekian or something like that. What I said there is just to clarify that I wouldn't care if Trunks got healing through being a Guardian as it's an open job.

I don't really understand you. Excitement, sadness, anger, happiness all of those are important. You need that in your work for it to be remembered. You need it in your work for it to be good. If your work is sterile and lifeless, what's the use of creating that said work. Your work need to get the attention of your reader. You can make the most well written piece of instruction manual that have ever been written but without taking the attention of your reader, what's is even the use of even making your work? Not saying that Super anime is the most exciting thing that have ever been made but it's leagues better than the manga. If you say that rewatching the anime is going to be a slog, the manga would be even more so. Those few minute that you say I can read through the manga, I can do something else in those few minutes as how boring the manga is. It isn't gripping, it is nothing. Even the cliff hanger doesn't excite me. Do you read something you find boring? Will you read it like that? For the anime, there are episodes that you can skip but you don't like for people to do that? There are summaries for every episode. Well, what I'm saying here is that the manga for all intents and purposes is just sterile and boring. I mean I can't blame it as it does start out as a side thing for the anime. So, there's that.

The first part is you seem to complain about the production. Which is fair as it's not as good. But Super high are better than any of the Z high. Other than that, I can agree with all of the other part that you're saying besides the opening and the grain. First opening is still good and the film grain things feels more like a nitpick. Manga made by one person, still doesn't look like Toriyama but at least he tried right? With all the trac... I mean references, Toyotaro is doing a mighty good job. But I'm going to say this, I do prefer better production. I would like if they use the anime story instead of Toyotaro CRAZY new ideas for the manga and I want the anime to look better but I'll settle for what I get right now.

What's with all this short, short, short and short. If you wanted it short, well that's you. I don't care. The ending we know but we don't know what happens in between. They also have the option to not follow the current ending, that would be fine too. But if you say that making a story this big in that small time gap is bad, I have to disagree. They are doing a good job here. The characters still manage to change and develop even if they don't change too much. The stories are interesting. And the time gap of 10 years isn't too small actually. I mean how long did it take for the Saiyan arc to finish? The Cell arc? Buu arc? The retelling is done I think for the sake of the schedule. They instantly started production when they see that the movies was doing well. They need Toriyama to create new stories. They need for people who don't watch the movie not to be left out. And no, people need to know what happen before. Dragon Ball before sure have those chapters where you can jump in but there's also part that you need to read the chapters before for you to understand. Same as Z. You can't jump in the middle of the Cell arc and expect to understand what happen before. That's stupid. People can only start with Z because there's a timeskip that conveniently make it jump to a new arc.

Well the last part of your post is obvious. I agree Z is good. But saying Super is bad is just wrong. The manga may look good but it isn't interesting. Just feel I need to tell that again. But this is my last part. The story, characters and events that happen are not freaking nitpicks. If the characters are bad, the story aren't interesting then it isn't a nitpick. It's a legitimate complaint. STOP saying that taking apart the manga because of the characters and the flow of the story is nitpicking because it isn't. I don't care what you support, you don't have to tell me. Well, that's it. But your definition of nitpicking is really weird though.
All I hear is "wahh it didn't happen like it did in the anime!!" Zephyr hit the nail on the head when he explained how incredibly draining it is to slog through mountains of shit just for a good 2 minute cut here and there. Super's "highs" don't come close to Z at all. It looks pretty, but in terms of choreography, placement, and overall impact on the story it still doesn't even come close. As far as storytelling goes, Super is definitely near bottom of the barrel. It's so disgustingly bad that nobody I grew up with who watched Z can stand it and before you say "nostalgia" we have watched quite a few series revivals and enjoyed many of them . At least Z knew what it was and didn't try to pander to a crowd who thinks Goku pissing himself is a worthwhile gag. The characters themselves have regressed backwards to the point where they are caricatures! (At least Frieza is getting some time to shine, hopefully it's indicative of the future)

Toyo's manga isn't perfect, but there's a reason why a lot of people prefer it over the anime. It's much more grounded, organic, and at least feels like a what-if continuation of Z whereas Super feels like some sort of Bizarro dimension. (It still feels fan fiction-esque because the entirety of Super: god ki, god transformations, useless characters like Frost - it ALL screams fanfic) It's also no surprise that the people who share that sentiment happen to be older.

Sitting through Super is a chore. I'm sure many older fans feel betrayed that they were left in the dust for cartoon that looks and feels like a cereal commercial. If you enjoy it, fine. But if you're going to argue that it's a good piece of storytelling you are 100% wrong. Nobody would ever hold it up in a classroom and say "here, this is a fine example of how to write and produce an anime". Nobody. (Z didn't have as much depth as other works but it didn't need to because it knew exactly what it was and was produced accordingly.) Their marketing strategy is a different story...And that's what really scares me moving forward with this franchise.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Basako » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:53 am

fexus wrote: I don't really understand you. Excitement, sadness, anger, happiness all of those are important. You need that in your work for it to be remembered. You need it in your work for it to be good. If your work is sterile and lifeless, what's the use of creating that said work. Your work need to get the attention of your reader. You can make the most well written piece of instruction manual that have ever been written but without taking the attention of your reader, what's is even the use of even making your work? Not saying that Super anime is the most exciting thing that have ever been made but it's leagues better than the manga. If you say that rewatching the anime is going to be a slog, the manga would be even more so. Those few minute that you say I can read through the manga, I can do something else in those few minutes as how boring the manga is. It isn't gripping, it is nothing. Even the cliff hanger doesn't excite me. Do you read something you find boring? Will you read it like that? For the anime, there are episodes that you can skip but you don't like for people to do that? There are summaries for every episode. Well, what I'm saying here is that the manga for all intents and purposes is just sterile and boring. I mean I can't blame it as it does start out as a side thing for the anime. So, there's that.
Man, I don't share your perception at all, the manga is not boring. It had the right amount of mistery at the begining of the arc, remember how Black was introduced, although being behind the anime spoils it a bit, and has had an increasing amount of tension through the whole arc, until we got to this moment where they are surrounded by multiple merged Zamasus, if one wasn't enough.

The manga is composed by still images, however, the dynamism can be felt in most of the fights. I remember the first fight between Vegeta and Black, as an example, but really in all of them. If only we could have those choreographies animated.

There's also a nice variety of techniques for the villain, more than the anime brought us. I wish Black had used his ki scythe in a creative way, but all he did was show of. Haven't rewatched the arc, I may miss something, but I don't remember any special thing used by Black or merged Zamasu in the anime.

Some unexpected revels like the Hakai or the healing make it more exciting too. Some people would have prefered if the Hakai could only be used by the gods of destruction, but that was just an assumption or an expectation. Looks like with a high enough power level, the mastered blue for Goku any less, non gods can use it too. But look at Goku, it totally drains him with one uncompleted use. It wasn't a cheap use at all.

The manga has also the right amount of fun and jokes, like the cart race, Kibito being the suspect or Beerus drinking a barrel of beer and spiting it to Shin accidentally. That I recall now, I could go on.

We have also dramatic moments, Black killing Gowasu was just amazing, telling him it was the third time he did this, that it wasn't a big deal for him. We didn't have future Bulma dying, but she was very present in last month's chapter with Trunks's speech. Because this is another thing, dialogs are very good too and they are in-character.
Last edited by Basako on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:10 am

TKA wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:Super (especially the anime) has really never explained everything in regards to new techniques / Rage Trunks. Why would this be any different?
I don't care about what the Super anime does, so everything you mentioned there is irrelevant. The manga maintains internal consistency. That's what matters, and what I'm talking about.
No need for the rude tone. We'll see how things play out.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:11 am

Basako wrote:
There's also a nice variety of techniques for the villain, more than the anime brought us. I wish Black had used his ki scythe in a creative way, but all he did was show of. Haven't rewatched the arc, I may miss something, but I don't remember any special thing used by Black or merged Zamasu in the anime.
In the anime they had a bunch of one off moves that were mainly used in the episodes they were introduced them. Which is fine because that's what Dragonball does for most moves. Does them once and you don't seem them again except for movies and Games.

Anyway Black also had a combo blast with Zamasu where they shot two orbs and it combined into a giant explosion. They also had this really cool sword and shield thing going for a while where Zamasu would tank hits while Black did the attacking. Black did that sword thing where he logged a bunch of needles into Goku and had them Explode. The clone thing was dumb but it was a new technique.

Merged Zamasu had the Halo that shot exploding needles, The Giant bird thing that shot lightning, and if you want to count it, the giant Sun like ball of energy he spammed after a while.

In the Manga I only really remember him throwing Blocks. Not that I'm trying to bash the manga for it, but it's the only thing that comes to mind.

Edit: Oh and the portal thing. Which I thought was cool.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Basako » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:15 am

Boo Machine wrote: In the anime they had a bunch of one off moves that were mainly used in the episodes they were introduced them. Which is fine because that's what Dragonball does for most moves. Does them once and you don't seem them again except for movies and Games.

Anyway Black also had a combo blast with Zamasu where they shot two orbs and it combined into a giant explosion. They also had this really cool sword and shield thing going for a while where Zamasu would tank hits while Black did the attacking. Black did that sword thing where he logged a bunch of needles into Goku and had them Explode. The clone thing was dumb but it was a new technique.

Merged Zamasu had the Halo that shot exploding needles, The Giant bird thing that shot lightning, and if you want to count it, the giant Sun like ball of energy he spammed after a while.

In the Manga I only really remember him throwing Blocks. Not that I'm trying to bash the manga for it, but it's the only thing that comes to mind.

Edit: Oh and the portal thing. Which I thought was cool.
That techniques only appear once in the anime or manga is half true, half false. Sometimes it is the case, but so many other times is not, Kamehameha, Kiezan, Makankosappo, Masenko, Tayoken...

Combos are nice, I'm still waiting for them to happen more often. But, at least in the manga, Zamasu is weak, it would feel rare if they went with that. Hey, Vegeta and Trunks had one in the anime, I praised that when it happened.

Ki needles, that is something, I didn't remember it and it goes in tone with the ki sword, so good for it. The clones in the anime were nonsense. It's not that they were a technique Black used like Tenshinhan or Piccolo, they just appeared from other dimension or whatever that gratuitous thing in the sky was and they dissapeared when they were hit, what was the meaning of that? The Scythe had a potential and again in tone, but was not used. The bird thing, that was rare, not sure if it can be count in the group of techniques. The lightings you say it made, that had potential too, not sure if they were used fine.

Merged Zamasu in the manga has used, apart from the usual blasts and destructive spheres, the Katchin blocks, the telekinesis and the portals. I think Toyotaro has juiced each one of this techniques very creatively, making them visually very cool.

Black has what looks like the Kamehameha, the ki sword and a protection shield. He doesn't launch ki needles, but very similarly does launch a big bunch of small ki balls against Vegeta twice. He traps Trunks in something that looks like Roshi's Bankoku thing and stamps him against the floor and the buildings. He has also the same destructive sphere merged Zamasu has.

Zamasu has the ki sword and the telekinesis, as far as we know. Presumably the Katchin thing comes from him and he probably can make generic spheres and blasts too, but, as under leveled as he is, it was made more emphasis in his immortality and regeneration skills.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:33 am

Basako wrote: Ki needles, that is something, I didn't remember it and it goes in tone with the ki sword, so good for it. The clones in the anime were nonsense. It's not that they were a technique Black used like Tenshinhan or Piccolo, they just appeared from other dimension or whatever that gratuitous thing in the sky was and they dissapeared when they were hit, what was the meaning of that? The Scythe had a potential and again in tone, but was not used. The bird thing, that was rare, not sure if it can be count in the group of techniques. The lightings you say it made, that had potential too, not sure if they were used fine.
I would count the clones. They may have been random nonsense, but he could clearly control them, and they stopped coming the moment he left, so it is something he was doing. The lightning totally counts as a move. He even gave it a name. "Lightning of Absolution!"
Basako wrote:Merged Zamasu in the manga has used, apart from the usual blasts and destructive spheres, the Katchin blocks, the telekinesis and the portals. I think Toyotaro has juiced each one of this techniques very creatively, making them visually very cool.
Ah, yes, Telekinesis. I don't know how that one slipped my mind because he even uses it in the latest chapter. I think his moves in the manga were used well with the exception of the Katchin Blocks. He just kind threw them at the others with little thought. I even kind of laughed when Vegetto was about to finish him and his counter was going to be to throw another block.
Basako wrote:Black has what looks like the Kamehameha, the ki sword and a protection shield. He doesn't launch ki needles, but very similarly does launch a big bunch of small ki balls against Vegeta twice. He traps Trunks in something that looks like Roshi's Bankoku thing and stamps him against the floor and the buildings. He has also the same destructive sphere merged Zamasu has.
Oh ,well if we count the Kemehameha then Black uses that in the anime as well.
I had forgotten about the Bankoku thing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:24 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:No need for the rude tone. We'll see how things play out.
No rudeness was intended, so I apologize if you got that from my post. I was just answering you in a direct manner because your post sort of baffled me and caught me offguard. "Why is he telling me things about Super's anime in this thread?"

Again, i apologize if you feel slighted.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:35 am

Someone remind me how was Zamasu performing against shin?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:07 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:Someone remind me how was Zamasu performing against shin?
What do you mean?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:09 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Someone remind me how was Zamasu performing against shin?
What do you mean?
Unless I am confusing something, Zamasu was training with shin before all the mess right?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:16 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Someone remind me how was Zamasu performing against shin?
What do you mean?
Unless I am confusing something, Zamasu was training with shin before all the mess right?
He was sparring with Kibito in a Battle of Gods!...' attendants.
Of course he won that battle.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:20 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:Someone remind me how was Zamasu performing against shin?
You mean when Present Zamasu fought Kibito? He won without much effort. Shin later mentions how Zamasu is stronger than all of the Kaioshins from all the Universes.
Later it's mentioned Future Trunks should be able to handle Future Zamasu. Meaning he's weaker than SSJ3 level.

Fair to say, Zamasu ranges from low SSJ2 tier to hight SSJ2 Tier.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:56 pm

Oh yea!
It was against kiboto, I remembered shins face and kinda meshed those two together
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:08 pm

LightBing wrote:
Ki Breaker wrote:Someone remind me how was Zamasu performing against shin?
You mean when Present Zamasu fought Kibito? He won without much effort. Shin later mentions how Zamasu is stronger than all of the Kaioshins from all the Universes.
Later it's mentioned Future Trunks should be able to handle Future Zamasu. Meaning he's weaker than SSJ3 level.

Fair to say, Zamasu ranges from low SSJ2 tier to hight SSJ2 Tier.
Goku powered down to SSJ to handle Zamasu.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:30 pm

Doctor. wrote:Goku powered down to SSJ to handle Zamasu.
Goku powered down when Zamasu had a pole stuck in his stomach and when his immortality wasn't revealed yet. Goku was giving the usual second opportunity to a defeated villain. Not powering down to handle him.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Theophrastus » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:14 pm

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/20 ... 18/.117811

Volume 3 sold an additional 29,002 copies, bringing its total so far to 199,640.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:39 pm

LightBing wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Goku powered down to SSJ to handle Zamasu.
Goku powered down when Zamasu had a pole stuck in his stomach and when his immortality wasn't revealed yet. Goku was giving the usual second opportunity to a defeated villain. Not powering down to handle him.
Even if that weren't the case, I think it's plausible to believe SS now is a bit more advanced than pre-BoG.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:51 pm

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:
LightBing wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Goku powered down to SSJ to handle Zamasu.
Goku powered down when Zamasu had a pole stuck in his stomach and when his immortality wasn't revealed yet. Goku was giving the usual second opportunity to a defeated villain. Not powering down to handle him.
Even if that weren't the case, I think it's plausible to believe SS now is a bit more advanced than pre-BoG.
I agree, although that has no bearing in the conversation. The point is that SSJ Goku would have lost to Zamasu, Doctor is mistaken in what I assume he was trying to say/add.
Goku says SSJ God is enough for Zamasu and we have the previous mention that Future Trunks would be able to handle him. There's no ambiguity.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:27 am

So the Merged Zamasu clones are obviously the equivalent of the Cloud Merged Zamasu from the anime right?

So in the next chapter the clones will give them some trouble before they call in Zeno who will wipe out the universe.

Maybe the next chapter will be the last one then...again.

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