"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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LowRyder2005
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LowRyder2005 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:29 pm

To be completely honest, I'm still skeptical. While I can obviously buy the general idea of Gohan's base strength being magnified thanks to one given "Ultimate" multiplier, Goku's strength at that particular point was most likely adjusted in regards to a very apparent retcon/ change of direction relative to the Goku's intended strength (I've gone at length on how "Ultimate Gohan < "many tens of times" < base Goku < base Gohan < SS3 Gotenks" simply can't work from nothing short that a mathematical point of view) .

It would also probably mean that the Ultimate form and Blue share a very similar multiplier, and that the form surpasses or is at least very near to Super Saiyan God power-wise.
On the other hand, obviously, if Gohan can't be much stronger than his Buu saga counterpart, his Ultimate form shouldn't be that much stronger than his Buu saga counterpart as well. I personally feel that Gohan now is just supposed to be moderately stronger (and I don't happen to share the sentiment that there's real intent to portray Gohan as equal-ish to SSB Goku like many others do).

I stress that I don't think there's much wrong with your outlook, per se, the problem has more to do with Super's writing contradicting itself. Do note that, to me, Goku's ("normal") base is just around three times stronger compared to one from the Buu arc, and Piccolo outmatching Gohan counts more as anti-feat for Gohan than as a compelling feat for Piccolo.

(By the way, I feel it might be more appropriate to move this in the power-related thread, feel free to quote me there if you want to continue the conversation)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zeru14 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:39 am

I just realized that Toyotaro, covered up a potential plot hole, Future Trunks giving up his kai apprenticeship, explains why Gohan doesn't have the Healing ability, as he gave up his position after Kid Buu's defeat.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:46 pm

Zeru14 wrote:I just realized that Toyotaro, covered up a potential plot hole, Future Trunks giving up his kai apprenticeship, explains why Gohan doesn't have the Healing ability, as he gave up his position after Kid Buu's defeat.
Gohan was never made into a Kai apprentice. He also had a different dance than Trunks. Old Kai's power came from a non kai remember?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:02 pm

Image

What's the title of the extra chapter?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Boo Machine » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:45 pm

Is there a page limit that Toyo must follow when he makes the chapters? I just wonder why this extra bit of story with Gohan was left out. I guess it could be for pacing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:52 pm

Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.

When Ssj2 Trunks attacked Fused Zamasu, he was beaten with his eyes only.

Here we have Base Goku struggling against someone weaker than 18, after surving Toppo's signature move.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:55 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.

When Ssj2 Trunks attacked Fused Zamasu, he was beaten with his eyes only.

Here we have Base Goku struggling against someone weaker than 18, after surving Toppo's signature move.
Remember different writer with different interpretation on characters, that why the manga is consistent when compared to the anime is because there one writer

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:56 pm

The gr wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.

When Ssj2 Trunks attacked Fused Zamasu, he was beaten with his eyes only.

Here we have Base Goku struggling against someone weaker than 18, after surving Toppo's signature move.
Remember different writer with different interpretation on characters, that why the manga is consistent when compared to the anime is because there one writer
That doesn't make it acceptable.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:00 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
The gr wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.

When Ssj2 Trunks attacked Fused Zamasu, he was beaten with his eyes only.

Here we have Base Goku struggling against someone weaker than 18, after surving Toppo's signature move.
Remember different writer with different interpretation on characters, that why the manga is consistent when compared to the anime is because there one writer
That doesn't make it acceptable.
Yeah is bad writing but I'm just doing a comparison between both medium

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rhuagh » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:12 am

I'm a big fan of the manga, but I don't know if Toyotaro will be able to make the first 2/3's of the Tournament enjoyable. The structure they went with, an 80-fighters-battle-royale on a tiny arena, is not working at all in the anime. Combined with horrible writing and subpar animation, it's a mess, no matter how much I wanted to like it. So few pros in comparison to cons.

I think some of the bigger problems with the structure and pacing of the fights will inevitably also plague the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by micah007 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:45 am

I'm wondering what the fight choreography will be like in the manga for the TOP. Some of the named characters in the anime have demonstrated interesting abilities so far, will he include those or keep it simple to make portraying the battle royal easier.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Ki Breaker » Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:07 am

micah007 wrote:I'm wondering what the fight choreography will be like in the manga for the TOP. Some of the named characters in the anime have demonstrated interesting abilities so far, will he include those or keep it simple to make portraying the battle royal easier.
Fight choreography is one thing almost everyone agrees the manga is good at..
Expect some good showing, the track record supports it..
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:41 am

Will Viz get their thumbs out their asses and translate the bonus content?

I know we aren't supposed to share scanlations but missing just these couple of pages is stupid and frustrating.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by micah007 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:14 am

Ki Breaker wrote:
micah007 wrote:I'm wondering what the fight choreography will be like in the manga for the TOP. Some of the named characters in the anime have demonstrated interesting abilities so far, will he include those or keep it simple to make portraying the battle royal easier.
Fight choreography is one thing almost everyone agrees the manga is good at..
Expect some good showing, the track record supports it..
Yeah. I ask because this could be one of the most visually stunning battles to take place in the manga, I hope he goes all out.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:40 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.

When Ssj2 Trunks attacked Fused Zamasu, he was beaten with his eyes only.

Here we have Base Goku struggling against someone weaker than 18, after surving Toppo's signature move.
Sorry, but I think you forgot about the mess of SSJ2 Vegeta being stronger than SSJ Black which its Base was stronger than the powered SSJ2 F. Trunks who was probably on pair with SSJ3 Goku.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:55 pm

Noah wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.

When Ssj2 Trunks attacked Fused Zamasu, he was beaten with his eyes only.

Here we have Base Goku struggling against someone weaker than 18, after surving Toppo's signature move.
Sorry, but I think you forgot about the mess of SSJ2 Vegeta being stronger than SSJ Black which its Base was stronger than the powered SSJ2 F. Trunks who was probably on pair with SSJ3 Goku.
And you forgot that SSJ2 Vegeta has been stronger than SSJ3 Goku since the BoG Arc.
I don't understand why people keep repeating this. It's blatant that this intentional from Toyotarõ.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:00 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.
Power levels don't mean much if you're making a less interesting version. Because of that bulshit FT Trunks is nothing more than a supporting character on his own arc in the manga.

The audience wants to be entertained and the biggest part of it isn't watching Super with calculators next to them to make sure the numbers are right. Like it or not, power levels don't make sense since Freeza arc and they were introduced in Saiyan arc only to proof how wrong they can be.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:06 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.
Power levels don't mean much if you're making a less interesting version. Because of that bulshit FT Trunks is nothing more than a supporting character on his own arc in the manga.

The audience wants to be entertained and the biggest part of it isn't watching Super with calculators next to them to make sure the numbers are right. Like it or not, power levels don't make sense since Freeza arc and they were introduced in Saiyan arc only to proof how wrong they can be.
Completely incorrect, as I have stated before Toriyama was very careful about maintaining a consistent power pyramid regardless of what you may claim. Frieza was and still to this day is the strongest natural being in the universe. Vegeta was second in this ozaru form and then Freeza's henchmen ranked under him. The audience aren't idiots and don't want to be treated like idiots. Actually I take that back as I can only speak for myself.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:06 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.
Power levels don't mean much if you're making a less interesting version. Because of that bulshit FT Trunks is nothing more than a supporting character on his own arc in the manga.

The audience wants to be entertained and the biggest part of it isn't watching Super with calculators next to them to make sure the numbers are right. Like it or not, power levels don't make sense since Freeza arc and they were introduced in Saiyan arc only to proof how wrong they can be.
Sigh is not the number we care about viewtopic.php?f=25&t=39340&p=1351794#p1351794

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:15 pm

Noah wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote:Say all you want about the manga, but at least power levels make sense there.

When Ssj2 Trunks attacked Fused Zamasu, he was beaten with his eyes only.

Here we have Base Goku struggling against someone weaker than 18, after surving Toppo's signature move.
Sorry, but I think you forgot about the mess of SSJ2 Vegeta being stronger than SSJ Black which its Base was stronger than the powered SSJ2 F. Trunks who was probably on pair with SSJ3 Goku.
It doesn't have to be a mistake. Perhaps Vegeta's Ssj2 is stronger than Ssj3 Goku, who knows.

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