It wasn't working. Zamasu didn't know, but he'd have just regenerated from the HakaiTheMikado wrote:I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't have limits, but we also saw in the manga that the hakai actually was working and MZamasu had to take a hostage to stop it. As far as its limits no one said there isn't a way to counter it. The thing is we have no idea what the limits are and we certainly don't know if those limits have anything to do with strength. Zeno for example doesn't seem very powerful at all and as for why Gods would be afraid of the power you would still need to catch them off guard and hold them still. Theoretically the UI move without thinking principle could possibly let them anticipate and dodge the hakai attack.BlueVegerot wrote:IN the manga beerus admitted that he had no way to destroy an immortal like M Zamasu so the hakai would not have worked regardless. Also if the hakai had no limits why would beerus be scared of zeno or the Grand Priest or why would GoDs be scared of a mortal achieving UI?
"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Wouldn't that be a proof that Goku didn't mastered this technique yet?OLKv3 wrote:It wasn't working. Zamasu didn't know, but he'd have just regenerated from the Hakai
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I'm really curious to see the next chapter myself. The contrasts might yield some clues to the general direction of the arc.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Well my point is it was working in the sense that it was vaporizing his body and affecting him even though yes he would likely just keep regenerating, with the only reason he survived being the immortality.OLKv3 wrote:It wasn't working. Zamasu didn't know, but he'd have just regenerated from the HakaiTheMikado wrote:I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't have limits, but we also saw in the manga that the hakai actually was working and MZamasu had to take a hostage to stop it. As far as its limits no one said there isn't a way to counter it. The thing is we have no idea what the limits are and we certainly don't know if those limits have anything to do with strength. Zeno for example doesn't seem very powerful at all and as for why Gods would be afraid of the power you would still need to catch them off guard and hold them still. Theoretically the UI move without thinking principle could possibly let them anticipate and dodge the hakai attack.BlueVegerot wrote:IN the manga beerus admitted that he had no way to destroy an immortal like M Zamasu so the hakai would not have worked regardless. Also if the hakai had no limits why would beerus be scared of zeno or the Grand Priest or why would GoDs be scared of a mortal achieving UI?
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I think we already got a clue in the manga direction of this,it will focus more on the gods and the move without thinking will be expanded a bit moreBlueBasilisk wrote:I'm really curious to see the next chapter myself. The contrasts might yield some clues to the general direction of the arc.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
I am curious to see if they introduce kaioken in the mange. We finally got SSG in the anime, maybe the manga adds something it didn't have as well
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
The manga has been consistent with the power-scaling of the movies so far, so I hope that they'll place Kaio-ken x2-20 above Beerus in raw power, but come up with an excuse to make Beerus overally stronger, like Kaio-ken is temporary while Beerus can use Ultra Instict, so he can dodge its attacks until Goku hits his limit in using it, and then crush SSB Goku with his superior power. This could be a very good example of "power isn't everything".BlueVegerot wrote:I am curious to see if they introduce kaioken in the mange. We finally got SSG in the anime, maybe the manga adds something it didn't have as well
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
What are you talking about? In the movies Goku could do some damage to Beerus. In the manga he had no chance at all.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The manga has been consistent with the power-scaling of the movies so farBlueVegerot wrote:I am curious to see if they introduce kaioken in the mange. We finally got SSG in the anime, maybe the manga adds something it didn't have as well
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Manga does not run with movie powerscaling ie SSG is 70% of Beerus. Chapter 27, Beerus easily one shot Completed SSB Vegeta so even with kaioken Goku isn't gonna come close imo. If i had to guess though kaioken won't be in the manga since the CSSB form already is super hard on the body so stacking kaioken on top of it would be unsustainable
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
No, considering Beerus flat out says that he himself can't destroy an immortal being, and Beerus can casually use Hakai. It's one of the most matter of fact statements in DBSNoah wrote:Wouldn't that be a proof that Goku didn't mastered this technique yet?OLKv3 wrote:It wasn't working. Zamasu didn't know, but he'd have just regenerated from the Hakai
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It's also implied in the anime with Whis saying he was going to seal Future Zamasu in the new timeline as opposed to having Future Beerus deal with him like Goku Black.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Wasnt it working because Zamasu took May (or Mai) as a hostage? So Goku stopped his HakaiOLKv3 wrote:It wasn't working. Zamasu didn't know, but he'd have just regenerated from the HakaiTheMikado wrote:I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't have limits, but we also saw in the manga that the hakai actually was working and MZamasu had to take a hostage to stop it. As far as its limits no one said there isn't a way to counter it. The thing is we have no idea what the limits are and we certainly don't know if those limits have anything to do with strength. Zeno for example doesn't seem very powerful at all and as for why Gods would be afraid of the power you would still need to catch them off guard and hold them still. Theoretically the UI move without thinking principle could possibly let them anticipate and dodge the hakai attack.BlueVegerot wrote:IN the manga beerus admitted that he had no way to destroy an immortal like M Zamasu so the hakai would not have worked regardless. Also if the hakai had no limits why would beerus be scared of zeno or the Grand Priest or why would GoDs be scared of a mortal achieving UI?
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
No,beerus says that his techniques do not work on immortals.But zamasu did not know that so he took Mai as hostage in fear of being erased.Pannaliciour wrote:Wasnt it working because Zamasu took May (or Mai) as a hostage? So Goku stopped his HakaiOLKv3 wrote:It wasn't working. Zamasu didn't know, but he'd have just regenerated from the HakaiTheMikado wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't have limits, but we also saw in the manga that the hakai actually was working and MZamasu had to take a hostage to stop it. As far as its limits no one said there isn't a way to counter it. The thing is we have no idea what the limits are and we certainly don't know if those limits have anything to do with strength. Zeno for example doesn't seem very powerful at all and as for why Gods would be afraid of the power you would still need to catch them off guard and hold them still. Theoretically the UI move without thinking principle could possibly let them anticipate and dodge the hakai attack.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Wasn’t this in the same conversation where Beerus matter of factly told them about time travel and was completely BS ing it?OLKv3 wrote:No, considering Beerus flat out says that he himself can't destroy an immortal being, and Beerus can casually use Hakai. It's one of the most matter of fact statements in DBSNoah wrote:Wouldn't that be a proof that Goku didn't mastered this technique yet?OLKv3 wrote:It wasn't working. Zamasu didn't know, but he'd have just regenerated from the Hakai
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
i think toyotoro is saving kaioken for the tournament of power. i think it will be gokus trump card (instead of spirit bomb) against jiren. in the manga, mastered super saiyan blue already puts a huge a strain on the body. combining this with kaioken x 20 will be basically suicide. this will force goku to break his limits.BlueVegerot wrote:I am curious to see if they introduce kaioken in the mange. We finally got SSG in the anime, maybe the manga adds something it didn't have as well
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
The fight was longer in the movies, and Beerus wasn't using 70% of his power in the whole fight, he started lower. In the manga, Beerus was just going less easy than he did in the movie. In both fights, Goku never did any real damage to Beerus.Namz wrote:What are you talking about? In the movies Goku could do some damage to Beerus. In the manga he had no chance at all.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Tien and Yamcha fighting matches from GameInformer coverage.
Dragon Ball was always a kid series and fans should stop being in denial.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Wrong thread, mateNeo-Makaiōshin wrote:Tien and Yamcha fighting matches from GameInformer coverage.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
No it wasn't. Beerus bluffing about time travel and getting it wrong was anime only, that convo was never in the manga. In the manga, Beerus knew how time travel worked, and only went to kill Present Zamasu to stop him from causing trouble in his timeline.TheMikado wrote:Wasn’t this in the same conversation where Beerus matter of factly told them about time travel and was completely BS ing it?OLKv3 wrote:No, considering Beerus flat out says that he himself can't destroy an immortal being, and Beerus can casually use Hakai. It's one of the most matter of fact statements in DBSNoah wrote:
Wouldn't that be a proof that Goku didn't mastered this technique yet?
The convo about Hakai happens in the final chapter of the arc, where Goku asks Beerus if he's going to kill Zamasu, and Beerus replies that he's unable to destroy immortals.
Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread
Yep. Both the anime and manga state that Beerus himself won't be able to destroy an immortal Zamasu.
Well duh! It would defeat the purpose of being immortal.
Well duh! It would defeat the purpose of being immortal.