"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:56 am

supersaiyanZero wrote:
Noah wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:Are we talking about the anime here?
Nope as the anime is vastly superior in that aspect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3ua68IAUk
How does using a compilation of repeated frames prove your point exactly, especially since there are sequences in there that actually do having choreography in the repeated frames? All it necessarily proves is there are a lot of repeated frames in a Dragonball show.

Outstanding point.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyanZero » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:59 am

JazzMazz wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:
Noah wrote:
Nope as the anime is vastly superior in that aspect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X3ua68IAUk
How does using a compilation of repeated frames prove your point exactly, especially since there are sequences in there that actually do having choreography in the repeated frames? All it necessarily proves is there are a lot of repeated frames in a Dragonball show.

Outstanding point.
My point being that the majority of fights in Super are very one dimensional, boring, and involve almost zero chorepography. Notevery fight mind you, but too many to count. Nothing about repeated frames mind you.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:02 am

supersaiyanZero wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
How does using a compilation of repeated frames prove your point exactly, especially since there are sequences in there that actually do having choreography in the repeated frames? All it necessarily proves is there are a lot of repeated frames in a Dragonball show.

Outstanding point.
My point being that the majority of fights in Super are very one dimensional, boring, and involve almost zero chorepography. Notevery fight mind you, but too many to count.
But, how have you proven that point if your only using specific examples, and are also cutting out scenes within those fights that don't prove what your saying?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyanZero » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:10 am

JazzMazz wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: How does using a compilation of repeated frames prove your point exactly, especially since there are sequences in there that actually do having choreography in the repeated frames? All it necessarily proves is there are a lot of repeated frames in a Dragonball show.

Outstanding point.
My point being that the majority of fights in Super are very one dimensional, boring, and involve almost zero chorepography. Notevery fight mind you, but too many to count.
But, how have you proven that point if your only using specific examples, and are also cutting out scenes within those fights that don't prove what your saying?
You need to stop being a contrarian. I am not here to prove you wrong, I am simply showing why in my eyes the anime can't hold a candle to the choreography in Toyo's manga. I am not omitting anything specifically but rather it's a very convenient compilation of exactly what I dislike about Super, posted by someone who is unrelated to me who sees what I'm seeing. In my eyes these garbage fights happen way too often for me to ever get excited about an episode of Super. And the kicker? That compilation is like 1/10th of all the atatatatas in Super. The show simply got away with it one too many times and now its there go-to.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:20 am

God that ATATATATATATATATATATATATA is prolly the most annoying thing about Super

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by puar » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:26 am

Dbzfan94 wrote:God that ATATATATATATATATATATATATA is prolly the most annoying thing about Super
japanese dub exclusive. but that for another thread

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyanZero » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:34 am

puar wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:God that ATATATATATATATATATATATATA is prolly the most annoying thing about Super
japanese dub exclusive. but that for another thread
No, it's really less about the sound the characters make whether its atatatatas or grunting and more about the lack of choreography or just overall care put into the fights.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:54 am

supersaiyanZero wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:
My point being that the majority of fights in Super are very one dimensional, boring, and involve almost zero chorepography. Notevery fight mind you, but too many to count.
But, how have you proven that point if your only using specific examples, and are also cutting out scenes within those fights that don't prove what your saying?
You need to stop being a contrarian. I am not here to prove you wrong, I am simply showing why in my eyes the anime can't hold a candle to the choreography in Toyo's manga. I am not omitting anything specifically but rather it's a very convenient compilation of exactly what I dislike about Super, posted by someone who is unrelated to me who sees what I'm seeing. In my eyes these garbage fights happen way too often for me to ever get excited about an episode of Super. And the kicker? That compilation is like 1/10th of all the atatatatas in Super. The show simply got away with it one too many times and now its there go-to.
I don't see what is the problem with being a contrarian if I don't agree with the popular opinion and I have genuine reasons to back it up.

I'm not the largest fan of the choreography in Toyotaro's manga(up until this current arc and the late parts of the last arc), because the majority of it is shown from fairly dull and uncreative angles which fails to make the action on the page pop out a lot of the time. It doesn't matter how well choreographed or creative the action is, if its shown to the audience in a very cookie cutter kind of fashion.

I don't have a problem with the use of repeated frames, hell I don't even mind the fact that they're used in almost every fight. What I do have a problem with, is when they are poorly executed and fail to be the visually impressive they are supposed to be. In this regard, Super has many glaring examples, with episodes 105, 111, 115 and 119 all having their fair share of poorly executed repeated frames. However, for every truly awful example, there are competent and even interesting counter examples, episode 79, 80, 86, 103 and both halves of the special showcasing at least one of those two qualities.


As for a comparison between the two's use of choreography (which should probably be in the anime v manga thread), I think the anime definitely has a far higher number of more interestingly composited fights than its manga counter-part, which I find a lot of the fights to be fairly underwhelming in comparison. However, this is not to say that the anime, doesn't have its fair share of poorly composited, framed or executed fight scenes, it certainly does(and a lot of them, especially earlier on) but I also think it more than makes up for it with its genuinely well done stuff.

I will say that Toyotaro at the very least is more ambitious with his choreography, however, I just think his only found his feet fairly recently in properly executing it on the page.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zeru14 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:02 am

Hawk9211 wrote:
ToshioWrites wrote:I wonder how Toyotaro will handle Hit vs Jiren. The manga version of Hit was far inferior to SSB Goku /Vegeta in power and his time skip not only didn’t improve to 0.5 seconds but it also can only be used a limited amount of times when he’s at full power + it doesn’t work at all on stronger foes. I’m very curious to see how Hit traps Jiren if he does at all
I think hit will get a big boost.
Zeru14 wrote:I wonder what new techniques and/or forms, Toyotaro might introduce for Team 7. Future Trunks had the Taiyoken and Healing, Vegeta the SSG form and Gamma Burst Flash, Goku the Hakai move and Android 17 displayed an Supernova-like energy ball attack. He also introduced the Mastered SSB concept for Goku and Vegeta. Here's some of the things I would like to see for some characters.

Android 18, the Kamehameha, she's been married to Krillin for years, so her knowing it wouldn't be impossible.
Piccolo, the Kaioken, if it was to be introduced into the manga, Piccolo is the likeliest candidate to have learned it off screen, maybe after his performance in the U6 tournament was a wake up call, also bring back the Light Grenade, and have him use the Masenko.
Tien, the Dodon Ray seriously when was the last time he used this, the Taiyoken lets have the inventor of the technique use it for crying out loud, the Four-Arms form another technique Toriyama didn't bother with after Dragonball, also have him use Ki attacks while in his Four-Arms form cause we've never seen him do that.
Android 17, the Hell Flash, after watching Android 16 perform it against Imperfect Cell, 17 figured out how to mimic it.
(Ultimate)Gohan, the Special Beam Cannon, he was trained by Piccolo so him knowing it isn't impossible, also bring back Masenko.
Krillin, the Spirit Ball as a tribute to Yamcha and the Tri-Beam.
Master Roshi(MAX), the Wolf Fang Fist as another tribute to Yamcha.
I would prefer new techniques and abilities instead of shuffling and variations.
I too believe that Hit will be stronger than his last appearance, it will probably be mentioned that he's been training since the U6 tournament, it will also be revealed that Cabba was also training and already knows SSJ2 before the ToP starts.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:05 am

Zeru14 wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote:
ToshioWrites wrote:I wonder how Toyotaro will handle Hit vs Jiren. The manga version of Hit was far inferior to SSB Goku /Vegeta in power and his time skip not only didn’t improve to 0.5 seconds but it also can only be used a limited amount of times when he’s at full power + it doesn’t work at all on stronger foes. I’m very curious to see how Hit traps Jiren if he does at all
I think hit will get a big boost.
Zeru14 wrote:I wonder what new techniques and/or forms, Toyotaro might introduce for Team 7. Future Trunks had the Taiyoken and Healing, Vegeta the SSG form and Gamma Burst Flash, Goku the Hakai move and Android 17 displayed an Supernova-like energy ball attack. He also introduced the Mastered SSB concept for Goku and Vegeta. Here's some of the things I would like to see for some characters.

Android 18, the Kamehameha, she's been married to Krillin for years, so her knowing it wouldn't be impossible.
Piccolo, the Kaioken, if it was to be introduced into the manga, Piccolo is the likeliest candidate to have learned it off screen, maybe after his performance in the U6 tournament was a wake up call, also bring back the Light Grenade, and have him use the Masenko.
Tien, the Dodon Ray seriously when was the last time he used this, the Taiyoken lets have the inventor of the technique use it for crying out loud, the Four-Arms form another technique Toriyama didn't bother with after Dragonball, also have him use Ki attacks while in his Four-Arms form cause we've never seen him do that.
Android 17, the Hell Flash, after watching Android 16 perform it against Imperfect Cell, 17 figured out how to mimic it.
(Ultimate)Gohan, the Special Beam Cannon, he was trained by Piccolo so him knowing it isn't impossible, also bring back Masenko.
Krillin, the Spirit Ball as a tribute to Yamcha and the Tri-Beam.
Master Roshi(MAX), the Wolf Fang Fist as another tribute to Yamcha.
I would prefer new techniques and abilities instead of shuffling and variations.
I too believe that Hit will be stronger than his last appearance, it will probably be mentioned that he's been training since the U6 tournament, it will also be revealed that Cabba was also training and already knows SSJ2 before the ToP starts.
I can certainly see them giving Hit a power boost before the TOP(after all, they have to make his defeat at Jiren's hands look good), but why do you think Cabba will get Super Sayain 2 before the TOP?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zeru14 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:37 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Zeru14 wrote:
Hawk9211 wrote: I think hit will get a big boost.

I would prefer new techniques and abilities instead of shuffling and variations.
I too believe that Hit will be stronger than his last appearance, it will probably be mentioned that he's been training since the U6 tournament, it will also be revealed that Cabba was also training and already knows SSJ2 before the ToP starts.
I can certainly see them giving Hit a power boost before the TOP(after all, they have to make his defeat at Jiren's hands look good), but why do you think Cabba will get Super Sayain 2 before the TOP?
Cause it serves no purpose narratively for him to get during the tournament(as the anime proved), so I can see Toyotaro already having him know it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:50 am

supersaiyanZero wrote:I am simply showing why in my eyes the anime can't hold a candle to the choreography in Toyo's manga.
Don't make us laugh, mate:

[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]


Also the manga will never come close to this
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Green » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:12 am

Toyo (and Toriyama agreed) even said himself that fights are his weakpoint so I don't think there's much room for discussion here. I liked Merged Zamasu vs Goku & Vegetto, but we're far from Shida, Takahashi and Tate's fights here. Animation plays its role too.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:45 am

I kind of wish Toyotaro would take the time to do some research on the various schools of martial arts both in Japan and China. DB's characters are supposed to be masterful practitioners yet they quite often come across as sensationalised action film brawlers with a surface level facade of stylistic combat. I'm very far from having an in-depth knowledge of martial arts myself but people have pointed out the amount of recycling of particular stances that have gone on. At least Toei has tried to expand upon the depth of the combat variety a little with things like Hit's Phoenix Eye Fist and Basil's Savate based style. They're still untapped concepts but you can at least say that the foundation is there.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hawk9211 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:07 pm

Lionel wrote:I kind of wish Toyotaro would take the time to do some research on the various schools of martial arts both in Japan and China. DB's characters are supposed to be masterful practitioners yet they quite often come across as sensationalised action film brawlers with a surface level facade of stylistic combat. I'm very far from having an in-depth knowledge of martial arts myself but people have pointed out the amount of recycling of particular stances that have gone on. At least Toei has tried to expand upon the depth of the combat variety a little with things like Hit's Phoenix Eye Fist and Basil's Savate based style. They're still untapped concepts but you can at least say that the foundation is there.
Merged zamasu and present zamasu had a defensive style in manga and even in anime,although it was discarded for ki blades.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:10 pm

Noah wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:I am simply showing why in my eyes the anime can't hold a candle to the choreography in Toyo's manga.
Don't make us laugh, mate
Bro. He said "in my eyes". It's his opinion. Making fun of it isn't going to change his opinion.

I agree with his opinion. The manga is more interesting to look at than Toei's mostly poorly-animated flashy messes.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Professor Freeza » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:14 pm

TKA wrote:
Noah wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:I am simply showing why in my eyes the anime can't hold a candle to the choreography in Toyo's manga.
Don't make us laugh, mate
Bro. He said "in my eyes". It's his opinion. Making fun of it isn't going to change his opinion.

I agree with his opinion. The manga is more interesting to look at than Toei's mostly poorly-animated flashy messes.

Manga Zamasu uses Katchin blocks to HURT Universe busters SSB Goku and Vegeta.

Thats just one. But that alone makes the manga useless

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The gr » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:18 pm

Noah wrote:
supersaiyanZero wrote:I am simply showing why in my eyes the anime can't hold a candle to the choreography in Toyo's manga.
Don't make us laugh, mate:

[spoiler]Image
Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]


Also the manga will never come close to this
No offense but the only thing your doing in this thread is just bashing the manga,yes the manga re used pose but your ignoring the good battles,you don't see people doing that for the anime,the anime had a rough year and bank animation but i can deny the anime had a good ammount of battles same goes for the manga it had a fair share of amazing battles that some people are not noticing it,just read chapter 8,9,10,15,24,25 and 29.
Professor Freeza wrote:

Manga Zamasu uses Katchin blocks to HURT Universe busters SSB Goku and Vegeta.

Thats just one. But that alone makes the manga useless
This just reeks of whinning,yes we get it MZ used bricks,no need to mention it in every thread
Last edited by The gr on Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:26 pm

Professor Freeza wrote:
TKA wrote:
Noah wrote:
Don't make us laugh, mate
Bro. He said "in my eyes". It's his opinion. Making fun of it isn't going to change his opinion.

I agree with his opinion. The manga is more interesting to look at than Toei's mostly poorly-animated flashy messes.

Manga Zamasu uses Katchin blocks to HURT Universe busters SSB Goku and Vegeta.

Thats just one. But that alone makes the manga useless
I notice you are always talking bad about manga dbs , be happy my friend , don’t suffer
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Professor Freeza » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:35 pm

prince212 wrote:
Professor Freeza wrote:
TKA wrote:
Bro. He said "in my eyes". It's his opinion. Making fun of it isn't going to change his opinion.

I agree with his opinion. The manga is more interesting to look at than Toei's mostly poorly-animated flashy messes.

Manga Zamasu uses Katchin blocks to HURT Universe busters SSB Goku and Vegeta.

Thats just one. But that alone makes the manga useless
I notice you are always talking bad about manga dbs , be happy my friend , don’t suffer
The gr wrote:
Professor Freeza wrote:

Manga Zamasu uses Katchin blocks to HURT Universe busters SSB Goku and Vegeta.

Thats just one. But that alone makes the manga useless
This just reeks of whinning,yes we get it MZ used bricks,no need to mention it in every thread


That bolded portion needs to be removed, because even suggesting that is laughable.

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