"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Dragono]

And yet Toriyama decided the 10 person thing for a reason, it's expecting that like the anime showed, each character get something to do. Tien did the least in the anime but at least they showed him do something before going down.

It's not about who is the weakest, of course the humans will always be the weakest, it's their inclusion in the story that you expect them to do something or leave them out entirely.

I'm going to have to stop you right there. I'm only speculating but I personally believe Toriyama picked the scale of this arc because he didn't have to write himself but he thought it was a good idea because it freaking is.


Toyo is a fan and Toei is a buisness. So their interpretations are going to be different based off that view. Toyo will use the characters he wants to. I'm also a fan and I'm not going to lie I probably would have thrown those 2 out as quickly as possibly too. Not because I don't like them but because I like them the least and someone has to go to show that I'm not pandering because in all honesty thats what Toei did. Now, I loved it but even I had to admit that yeah, Krillin, Tien and Roshi should not be this awesome. Goten and Trunks should not be that awesome since thy have screwed up every real fight they have every been in.

I'm sorry if your fanheart is hurt but logically, this does make sense.

No it doesn't. These are totally different universes we have never ever seen before. They could have fighters of completely different skill levels. There's no previously established facts to contradict. Every universe could be full of jiren tier dudes or farmers with shotguns.

This was literally the absolute narratively perfect opportunity to bring back the human fighters and give them ANYTHING to do. And they did bring them back, gave a reason for including them... And then had them thrashed by a shitty Freeza clone, which served no purpose to establish a threat or anything...

You say you like them but I think you are just saying that to sound reasonable. Even if you liked them one tenth as much as say, Vegeta, well he's already had like 100 times as much panel time, so even then it'd be more cool and varied to switch it up and showcase them.

If your happy with the manga that's totally cool but you and that other guy need to stop telling other people how to feel about subjective shit.

“I'm going to have to stop you right there.”
You didn't “have to” you just wanted to.

Why can't people literally just be like “yeah I'm fine with the events of this chapter but I can see how fans of those two characters would be hugely betrayed.” it's always gotta be actually your feelings are wrong because I felt differently.

So then how come when the RoF happened in the humans fought against Freeza soldiers, People said it was disrespectful because they were fighting fodder? If the universes have warriors that can be beaten by the humans, it makes them look like fodder?

[prince212]

Did anyone else have any interesting scuffles or interactions ? Pride troopers ? Hit ? Vegeta ? Etc
Anyone know ?

I don’t know , I don’t think so just with the amount of frost and freeza chapter eliminations , just show a panel with multiple fighter reactions to universe 9 erase ( looks like ) .. also I saw one with frost very upset .. so Zenos erasing frost is posible
I think I’m gonna stop to watch this post until the chapter release , it’s becoming annoying the amount of fan criticism, I share most of my thoughts with Draconic user .
Fans want to guide the artist in these days ... lets just enjoy

[TobyS]

I'm going to have to stop you right there. I'm only speculating but I personally believe Toriyama picked the scale of this arc because he didn't have to write himself but he thought it was a good idea because it freaking is.


Toyo is a fan and Toei is a buisness. So their interpretations are going to be different based off that view. Toyo will use the characters he wants to. I'm also a fan and I'm not going to lie I probably would have thrown those 2 out as quickly as possibly too. Not because I don't like them but because I like them the least and someone has to go to show that I'm not pandering because in all honesty thats what Toei did. Now, I loved it but even I had to admit that yeah, Krillin, Tien and Roshi should not be this awesome. Goten and Trunks should not be that awesome since thy have screwed up every real fight they have every been in.

I'm sorry if your fanheart is hurt but logically, this does make sense.

No it doesn't. These are totally different universes we have never ever seen before. They could have fighters of completely different skill levels. There's no previously established facts to contradict. Every universe could be full of jiren tier dudes or farmers with shotguns.

This was literally the absolute narratively perfect opportunity to bring back the human fighters and give them ANYTHING to do. And they did bring them back, gave a reason for including them... And then had them thrashed by a shitty Freeza clone, which served no purpose to establish a threat or anything...

You say you like them but I think you are just saying that to sound reasonable. Even if you liked them one tenth as much as say, Vegeta, well he's already had like 100 times as much panel time, so even then it'd be more cool and varied to switch it up and showcase them.

If your happy with the manga that's totally cool but you and that other guy need to stop telling other people how to feel about subjective shit.

“I'm going to have to stop you right there.”
You didn't “have to” you just wanted to.

Why can't people literally just be like “yeah I'm fine with the events of this chapter but I can see how fans of those two characters would be hugely betrayed.” it's always gotta be actually your feelings are wrong because I felt differently.

So then how come when the RoF happened in the humans fought against Freeza soldiers, People said it was disrespectful because they were fighting fodder? If the universes have warriors that can be beaten by the humans, it makes them look like fodder?

I didn't see anyone complain about them fighting fodder. I certainly didn't. They were mostly great full for any scraps they kicked down to us.

In toyos manga chapter they didn't even get owned by shisami or whatever.

Toyos done great till now with them.

You all aren't getting it. It doesn't matter that they weren't hyped especially. They were previously basically on the sidelines. Their inclusion, and specifically over more powerful and more recently used guys (like the saiyan kids) was inherently hyped. It was a totally fair assumption there would be a pay off. And if you can't see that you are blinder than Anne Frank.

[Miracles]

Why are you excited for characters to be wasted? I don't understand this way of thinking. Dragon Ball is meant for dragging stories on, but executed well enough to suffice for the longer story (Well back in DB and DBZ days by Toriyama and the Anime). Don't want to seem rude, but you seem like one of the fans who just enjoy flashy fight scenes rather than focusing on the big picture. I can't speak for everyone else, but I've enjoyed most of the Tournament of Power up to it's last few episodes. Giving Caulifla, Kale, Ribrianne etc. more screentime was such a delight and I'm glad we got it. Who wants to be introduced to a bunch of new characters representing their universe in such a grand tournament, only for them be to immediately disregarded..?

Rehashed characters like Tienshinhan and Kurrin are not new like Kale and Ribrianne. So their stay isn't warranted.
Naturally new characters won't get a quick exit like them for the sake of introduction and development in the story.
A Dragonball fan preferring flashy fights rather than the big picture? The fights are and always will be the big picture in Dragonball!

[prince212]

I meant dragono

-What context? Its just a bunch of fights, my friend. There is no plot here and that is fine.
-Let me simplify it, He gave them a toybox with a bunch of toys and a table, he told them play with them however you see fit but these ones need to be put away in a certain order and these 3 are untouchable.
-Toei used Krillin differently because they wanted to and Toyotara used Frost differently because he wanted to. Whats wrong with giving them freedom to do that?
-Do...do you not trust them?

-That is not what bad writing is. Thats your favorite character not doing more than what you want. Krillin and Tien were never hyped up in this more to do more than just fill up the 10 member slot and lets be real, if the number were lower and they were not here, you all would have complained that Toriyama didn't want to include

[jeffbr92]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That was pretty bad, such a disservice with Tenshinhan character.

Would people say the original manga rushed when compared to Z?

Yes, especially on the training portions (that are almost non existent)

I still thought the Zamasu arc was rushed.

Really? I though they dragged a lot.

[Raphael_Z]

I think everyone is forgetting that both Tien and Krilin are probably WAY BELOW Namek's First Form Frieza (Krilin peaked at the Namek Saga and hasn't been getting stronger ever since). Expecting them to spar with Frost (who is Namek's Final Form Frieza level AT LEAST) is insanity.

Is there really a difference between getting eliminated with 0 eliminations and getting eliminated after taking out fodders? The end result is the same in any case.

I think it's becoming clear that the reason why Toriyama made it a 10 person tournament is because he wanted to use the Androids and Roshi. Tien and Krillin were just fodder in Toriyama's great plan. And it makes total sense (yes, Roshi is way weaker than them but he has the Mafuba).

Also, if you really think about it, the only 5 important fighters from U7 are (in this order) Frieza, Goku, Vegeta, A17 and Gohan. Everyone else just took out fodder and got taken out like fodder.

[dragonball0900]

Wait. From what I heard, Krillin will be eliminated on the third page? Oh dear, and I was hoping for this chapter for Krillin to stay longer than Tien so that would keep those "Tien is stronger than Krillin" believers quiet. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. Once again when it comes to this chapter, Toyotaro and his manga dissapointed me.

[Zamasu55]

I think everyone is forgetting that both Tien and Krilin are probably WAY BELOW Namek's First Form Frieza (Krilin peaked at the Namek Saga and hasn't been getting stronger ever since). Expecting them to spar with Frost (who is Namek's Final Form Frieza level AT LEAST) is insanity.

Is there really a difference between getting eliminated with 0 eliminations and getting eliminated after taking out fodders? The end result is the same in any case.

I think it's becoming clear that the reason why Toriyama made it a 10 person tournament is because he wanted to use the Androids and Roshi. Tien and Krillin were just fodder in Toriyama's great plan. And it makes total sense (yes, Roshi is way weaker than them but he has the Mafuba).

Also, if you really think about it, the only 5 important fighters from U7 are (in this order) Frieza, Goku, Vegeta, A17 and Gohan. Everyone else just took out fodder and got taken out like fodder.

This.
And Frost is at the very least Super Perfect Cell tier.

[Marlowe89]

I think everyone is forgetting that both Tien and Krilin are probably WAY BELOW Namek's First Form Frieza (Krilin peaked at the Namek Saga and hasn't been getting stronger ever since). Expecting them to spar with Frost (who is Namek's Final Form Frieza level AT LEAST) is insanity.

I think it's more that people were just expecting them to fight someone closer to their level before getting eliminated, since that way they'd have some time in the limelight at least. I really can't imagine being a fan of Krillin or Tien and not being somewhat let down by this chapter.

[Xeogran]

Goku took Krillin because he's good at running, yet it seems not even this was true.

Disappointing how both Toei and Toyo gave them no love, despite the ToP poster showing them in a cool light. False hype..

[CJStriker_CBR]

People are complaining about Tien and Kurrin's quick exodus? Can't moan when you consider an opponent out of their league folded their tents.
Those fodder matches they had in the anime were boring and a waste of time. Glad the TOP is a rapid battle royale like it should be.

Why are you excited for characters to be wasted? I don't understand this way of thinking. Dragon Ball is meant for dragging stories on, but executed well enough to suffice for the longer story (Well back in DB and DBZ days by Toriyama and the Anime). Don't want to seem rude, but you seem like one of the fans who just enjoy flashy fight scenes rather than focusing on the big picture. I can't speak for everyone else, but I've enjoyed most of the Tournament of Power up to it's last few episodes. Giving Caulifla, Kale, Ribrianne etc. more screentime was such a delight and I'm glad we got it. Who wants to be introduced to a bunch of new characters representing their universe in such a grand tournament, only for them be to immediately disregarded..?

You Speak for more then you think you realize Exline cause I am the exact same way in viewing the ToP arc, so well said!

For me it was the intro of New Characters, their Universes and their Unique Personas that where the main driving force behind me watching this arc. While I could enjoy to degrees other aspects and orignial characters, they could only go so far in keeping my interest as did Ribrianne, Rozie, Kakunsa, Kale, Caulifla, Cabba, Toppo, Vikal, Jimeze and others new characters I hoped got as much shine as they could to make them interesting. I still have wonderments of how far focused writing could have taken other characters like the Trio-De-Dangers, Sorrel the Bunny Girl and Hop the Cat Lady, just a-little more time given to them would have made for even more interesting and fun character development.

Indeed you can't have a ToP and hover 70 non-developed characters otherwise their is not purpose in the battles or substance no matter how flashy they are. My hope is if or when Dragon Ball Comes back these and other characters will come back for further use and development.

In the end sometimes with some fans it is the New Characters that are a driving force for them more then the original cast.

[Lord Frieza]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Ima Chokeabitch. I love this page.

[CJStriker_CBR]

So from the interview it seems like it was toei's idea to make Ribrianne and co into a magical girl parody since Toriyama only designed Ribrianne and not Brianne which was toei. So I'm going to take a guess and say that Ribrianne probably won't be as love obsessed in the manga as she was in the anime. Not that it ever bothered me but I know many didn't like her because of that.

I can't say what will happen in the Manga yet and honestly Manga stories always are written faster then their anime counterparts. The Animes always are able to add in more detail and variety IMO or least in my experience then with the Manga, Manga is good but they tend to keep the story focused and shorter.

However I would not say it was Toriyama intent Not to Make Ribrianne a Magical Girl, just cause he just came-up with her transformed design only is hardly a conclusion that Ribrianne was not meant to have more beyond that 1 look. We have to remember these are team effects and with that Toei and other writers would have likely helped to fill in more backstory and designs for Ribrianne human state which is Brianne is more likely then anything else. We REALLY have to remember that Toei is the House the Build the Magical Girl Franchises more then any other studio with the Likes of Precure and Sailor Moon.

Magical Girls also always have 2 state, their human form and their transformed/powered-up looks, so Ribrianne being a Magical Girl you would need bother designs no matter what.

So their is high-certain chance that Ribrianne was always meant to be a Magical Girl, just Toriyama's job was to come up with the transformed states 1st it seems. The Manga is just shorter to so they get more to the point so they skip the transformations.

With that I certainly hope even if it is just 1 Panel or 1 moment that Toriyama does include Ribrianne's oath and ideals of LOVE being her set of Power cause that is who Ribrianne is and their is MUCH Pride in that with Fans of her's like me cause unlike other fans, Me and others I have meet Liked her LOVE Themed Powers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqVz0OkyKok


Again this is not done based on Parodying Magical Girls either alone, but it is Homaging them for those that know them well. I have spent the Last few weeks RE-Watching much Precure online and it should have been clear to me when watching Ribrianne but sometimes I need to remind myself as well, Precures have the Same Style of Love Attacks, a good amount of Supporting the Ideals of Love and Themes of Love in the story. THAT is who Many Magical Girls Are, not all but allot come from some for of Ideals of the Emotional Spectrum of Love and Caring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dcf6X3h13o


Really it will never be everyone's cup of tea style of Power, but if it bothered some then it is just that way, but for others Like Me we Loved it and want to see Ribrianne Keep up those ideals in the Manga cause it is Classic Homaging of Magical Girls and what they represent!

Sorry for the late reply mate, probably is still to early to say but that's just what I assumed. I guess what I was trying to say was that to me it seems like all Toriyama did was design her and toei saw that design and thought up the idea of having them be a magical girl parody or homage as you said. But probably would have been better for me to wait for the next chapter before I assumed this stuff. I still think Ribrianne will have her love for love it'll just be toned down in the manga like Toppo and his love of justice.

Sorry for the late Reply as well CriticalThinker my friend, kept wanting to but kept slipping away from me. Indeed it was on interesting theory you had so thanks for sharing it and I just wanted to say by my theory why they might have thought the other way. Honestly I hope nothing in my post sounded to harsh and if it did I am sorry for that, never meant it to be my friend, just an idea of what it could be Toriyama might be getting at with creating Ribrianne and it being a team effort.

I heard recently that Ribrianne was maybe one of Toriyama's 1st designs for the ToP, so if that is the case too it be interesting if or when Toriyama does an interview why he choose to create Ribrianne, what his take on Magical Girls is and why it was a Co-Creation with Toei with creating her human form Brianne, which I love it was a co-creation it should be, but be interesting to hear the story behind Toriyama's creation of her.

Any New History or explaining in the Creation of how Ribrianne/Brianne came to be is always News I want to hear!

[CriticalThinker]

I think I'm just more disappointed with Tien since he got pretty bad treatment in the anime and I was hoping he'd do a bit better here. I mean before this arc started I thought there'd be now way that the manga could do Tien worse than the anime and yet it did. All I wanted was for the guy to get a proper fight cause the "fight" he got in the anime wasn't all that great and here it seems he doesn't even put up a fight. While I don't think the anime handled Tien or Krillin the best at the very least they got to do something in the tournament before getting knocked out. Which makes me believe that Roshi and Piccolo probably won't do that much better here either, but I do hope I'm wrong. Also a stupid question but does anyone know when this chapter comes out?

[picc]

re: tien and krillin

Fodder got treated like fodder. No one is disappointed when the other universes weaklings are easily thrown out by 17 or 18. I understand we know tien and krillin and would enjoy seeing them fight people on their level before their elimination, but the way things happened is the way they probably would happen in a real tournament.

The fact we know and like their characters doesn't mean they arent fodder. Believing in them doesn't raise their power level either. What happened is what should have happened.

[Lord Beerus]

Disappointing how both Toei and Toyo gave them no love, despite the ToP poster showing them in a cool light. False hype..

Krillin and Tien got something in the anime. In the manga, they got outright jobbed out before they could do anything.

[DainIronfoot]

Wait. From what I heard, Krillin will be eliminated on the third page? Oh dear, and I was hoping for this chapter for Krillin to stay longer than Tien so that would keep those "Tien is stronger than Krillin" believers quiet. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. Once again when it comes to this chapter, Toyotaro and his manga dissapointed me.

The chapter hasn't come out yet. Even if so, lasting longer does not equate to Tien being stronger. Just like the anime, Tien lasted longer than Kuririn, however he never threw a single punch and pretty much was just there for the sake of being there. Besides, according to the recent Interviews, Toriyama had laid out an outline about who gets eliminated in order in the TOP. While Toyo may change things up slightly, we can expect the order of eliminations from u7 to be somewhat the same as we've seen.

[CriticalThinker]

I can't say what will happen in the Manga yet and honestly Manga stories always are written faster then their anime counterparts. The Animes always are able to add in more detail and variety IMO or least in my experience then with the Manga, Manga is good but they tend to keep the story focused and shorter.

However I would not say it was Toriyama intent Not to Make Ribrianne a Magical Girl, just cause he just came-up with her transformed design only is hardly a conclusion that Ribrianne was not meant to have more beyond that 1 look. We have to remember these are team effects and with that Toei and other writers would have likely helped to fill in more backstory and designs for Ribrianne human state which is Brianne is more likely then anything else. We REALLY have to remember that Toei is the House the Build the Magical Girl Franchises more then any other studio with the Likes of Precure and Sailor Moon.

Magical Girls also always have 2 state, their human form and their transformed/powered-up looks, so Ribrianne being a Magical Girl you would need bother designs no matter what.

So their is high-certain chance that Ribrianne was always meant to be a Magical Girl, just Toriyama's job was to come up with the transformed states 1st it seems. The Manga is just shorter to so they get more to the point so they skip the transformations.

With that I certainly hope even if it is just 1 Panel or 1 moment that Toriyama does include Ribrianne's oath and ideals of LOVE being her set of Power cause that is who Ribrianne is and their is MUCH Pride in that with Fans of her's like me cause unlike other fans, Me and others I have meet Liked her LOVE Themed Powers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqVz0OkyKok


Again this is not done based on Parodying Magical Girls either alone, but it is Homaging them for those that know them well. I have spent the Last few weeks RE-Watching much Precure online and it should have been clear to me when watching Ribrianne but sometimes I need to remind myself as well, Precures have the Same Style of Love Attacks, a good amount of Supporting the Ideals of Love and Themes of Love in the story. THAT is who Many Magical Girls Are, not all but allot come from some for of Ideals of the Emotional Spectrum of Love and Caring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dcf6X3h13o


Really it will never be everyone's cup of tea style of Power, but if it bothered some then it is just that way, but for others Like Me we Loved it and want to see Ribrianne Keep up those ideals in the Manga cause it is Classic Homaging of Magical Girls and what they represent!

Sorry for the late reply mate, probably is still to early to say but that's just what I assumed. I guess what I was trying to say was that to me it seems like all Toriyama did was design her and toei saw that design and thought up the idea of having them be a magical girl parody or homage as you said. But probably would have been better for me to wait for the next chapter before I assumed this stuff. I still think Ribrianne will have her love for love it'll just be toned down in the manga like Toppo and his love of justice.

Sorry for the late Reply as well CriticalThinker my friend, kept wanting to but kept slipping away from me. Indeed it was on interesting theory you had so thanks for sharing it and I just wanted to say by my theory why they might have thought the other way. Honestly I hope nothing in my post sounded to harsh and if it did I am sorry for that, never meant it to be my friend, just an idea of what it could be Toriyama might be getting at with creating Ribrianne and it being a team effort.

I heard recently that Ribrianne was maybe one of Toriyama's 1st designs for the ToP, so if that is the case too it be interesting if or when Toriyama does an interview why he choose to create Ribrianne, what his take on Magical Girls is and why it was a Co-Creation with Toei with creating her human form Brianne, which I love it was a co-creation it should be, but be interesting to hear the story behind Toriyama's creation of her.

Any New History or explaining in the Creation of how Ribrianne/Brianne came to be is always News I want to hear!

Don't worry about it mate I have a bad tendency to either not reply to comments or replying to them late so it's all good. Also nothing in your post came off as harsh so need to apologize. Was neat to hear that she was one of the few characters designed by Toriyama, hope we get some more interviews soon about this arc.

[LightBing]

I'm disappointed that Kuririn and Tenshinhan apparently did so little here since I like the characters, specially Kuririn. I understand, in part, the people who feel cheated on due to their inclusion in this big rumble however the manga didn't build them up to do anything and this is a story from Mr. Toriyama, you should know what you sign up for.

Honestly asking for fan-service usually damages the product. Now that I think about it more, it makes sense for Mr.Toriyama to include cannon fodder. Every Universe has them ours should too, it improves the feeling of a rumble.