"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:31 pm

DainIronfoot wrote:
dragonball0900 wrote:Wait. From what I heard, Krillin will be eliminated on the third page? Oh dear, and I was hoping for this chapter for Krillin to stay longer than Tien so that would keep those "Tien is stronger than Krillin" believers quiet. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. Once again when it comes to this chapter, Toyotaro and his manga dissapointed me.

The chapter hasn't come out yet. Even if so, lasting longer does not equate to Tien being stronger. Just like the anime, Tien lasted longer than Kuririn, however he never threw a single punch and pretty much was just there for the sake of being there. Besides, according to the recent Interviews, Toriyama had laid out an outline about who gets eliminated in order in the TOP. While Toyo may change things up slightly, we can expect the order of eliminations from u7 to be somewhat the same as we've seen.
A shame really. I wonder why did they choose that order of eliminations? Why did Toriyama decided to eliminate Krillin first? Why Roshi after Krillin and Tien? Why Android 18 after Piccolo? If it was an anime only thing, then I wouldn't mind. But now that it was said that Toriyama decided for both manga and anime to be the SAME order makes me wonder why did they decided to eliminate some U7 fighters before the others.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:34 pm

picc wrote:re: tien and krillin

Fodder got treated like fodder. No one is disappointed when the other universes weaklings are easily thrown out by 17 or 18. I understand we know tien and krillin and would enjoy seeing them fight people on their level before their elimination, but the way things happened is the way they probably would happen in a real tournament.

The fact we know and like their characters doesn't mean they arent fodder. Believing in them doesn't raise their power level either. What happened is what should have happened.
I mean this is the crux of this. These guys aren’t special little snowflakes because they hang out with the protagonists. It’s a royal rumble and what’s supposed to happen is happening. The weaker opponents are getting taken out left and right.

Toei did this weird setup where it’s more like a progressive staged tournament when if fact there should have been insanity and characters getting knocked out left and right against unevenly matched characters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ToshioWrites » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:45 pm

SIAP but can anyone confirm that frieza "stole" eliminations from gohan and/or piccolo?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ToshioWrites » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:48 pm

The fighters I hope toyo does good by is Toppo and Dyspo.

Toppo is the next GoD and beat mssb goku at the exhibition matches, hopefully he eliminates some people before his fight with vegeta
Dyspo atleast in the anime was giving issues to hit, goku, freeza and gohan and hopefull he can take atleast one person out clean

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:53 pm

Gonna wait for the full chapter before I declare that Krillin and Tien did nothing

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by picc » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:00 pm

TheMikado wrote: I mean this is the crux of this. These guys aren’t special little snowflakes because they hang out with the protagonists. It’s a royal rumble and what’s supposed to happen is happening. The weaker opponents are getting taken out left and right.

Toei did this weird setup where it’s more like a progressive staged tournament when if fact there should have been insanity and characters getting knocked out left and right against unevenly matched characters.
Essentially. I actually would have liked to see tien and krillin put in some work on weaker characters before they left. But if the writer is going for realism, I respect that too.

Even in the anime, people acted like Krillin letting his guard down was the reason he got knocked off. As if Frost wasn't going to fodderize him anyway.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Raphael_Z » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:04 pm

dragonball0900 wrote:
DainIronfoot wrote:
dragonball0900 wrote:Wait. From what I heard, Krillin will be eliminated on the third page? Oh dear, and I was hoping for this chapter for Krillin to stay longer than Tien so that would keep those "Tien is stronger than Krillin" believers quiet. Unfortunately, that isn't the case. Once again when it comes to this chapter, Toyotaro and his manga dissapointed me.

The chapter hasn't come out yet. Even if so, lasting longer does not equate to Tien being stronger. Just like the anime, Tien lasted longer than Kuririn, however he never threw a single punch and pretty much was just there for the sake of being there. Besides, according to the recent Interviews, Toriyama had laid out an outline about who gets eliminated in order in the TOP. While Toyo may change things up slightly, we can expect the order of eliminations from u7 to be somewhat the same as we've seen.
A shame really. I wonder why did they choose that order of eliminations? Why did Toriyama decided to eliminate Krillin first? Why Roshi after Krillin and Tien? Why Android 18 after Piccolo? If it was an anime only thing, then I wouldn't mind. But now that it was said that Toriyama decided for both manga and anime to be the SAME order makes me wonder why did they decided to eliminate some U7 fighters before the others.
1. Because this is the first time since the Piccolo Saga that Roshi will actually have the time to shine thanks to Mafuba (I don't count RoF since he was fodder much like Krilin and Tien). Tien and Krilin had their moments in Z, now it's Roshi's turn. (Also, if the Vegeta-Roshi interactions were Toriyama's idea this is THE first time in the history of DB that the two exchange words although I do wonder who they'll face now since Frost seems to be out. Maybe a Pride Trooper?).

2. Roshi and Frieza aside, the order of elimination seems to be power-level related (Krilin < Tien < Piccolo < 18 < Gohan < 17 < Vegeta < Goku). Yes, Piccolo surpassed both 17 and 18 when he gained his last relevant power up back in the Android Saga but if A17 is now Blue-Tier, it isn't impossible to think that 18 is at least a little bit stronger than Piccolo (at least her unlimited energy means she will never tire in a battle). I kind of doubt that Piccolo would have been able to defeat Super Ribrianne with the ease that 18 did.

Also, during an interview, Toriyama said he wrote EXACTLY the way in which Piccolo would be eliminated (trolled by the invisible enemy) so maybe it's some sort of narrative irony that one of the smartest strategic fighters with hyper senses fell for such a dumb trap.
Last edited by Raphael_Z on Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:11 pm

Raphael_Z wrote:
dragonball0900 wrote:
DainIronfoot wrote:

The chapter hasn't come out yet. Even if so, lasting longer does not equate to Tien being stronger. Just like the anime, Tien lasted longer than Kuririn, however he never threw a single punch and pretty much was just there for the sake of being there. Besides, according to the recent Interviews, Toriyama had laid out an outline about who gets eliminated in order in the TOP. While Toyo may change things up slightly, we can expect the order of eliminations from u7 to be somewhat the same as we've seen.
A shame really. I wonder why did they choose that order of eliminations? Why did Toriyama decided to eliminate Krillin first? Why Roshi after Krillin and Tien? Why Android 18 after Piccolo? If it was an anime only thing, then I wouldn't mind. But now that it was said that Toriyama decided for both manga and anime to be the SAME order makes me wonder why did they decided to eliminate some U7 fighters before the others.
1. Because this is the first time since the Piccolo Saga that Roshi will actually have the time to shine thanks to Mafuba (I don't count RoF since he was fodder much like Krilin and Tien). Tien and Krilin had their moments in Z, now it's Roshi's turn.

2. Roshi and Frieza aside, the order of elimination seems to be power-level related (Krilin < Tien < Piccolo < 18 < Gohan < 17 < Vegeta < Goku). Yes, Piccolo surpassed both 17 and 18 when he gained his last relevant power up back in the Android Saga but if A17 is now Blue-Tier, it isn't impossible to think that 18 is at least a little bit stronger than Piccolo (at least her unlimited energy means she will never tire in a battle). I kind of doubt that Piccolo would have been able to defeat Super Ribrianne with the ease that 18 did.

Also, during an interview, Toriyama said he wrote EXACTLY the way in which Piccolo would be eliminated (trolled by the invisible enemy) so maybe it's some sort of narrative irony that one of the smartest strategic fighters with hyper senses fell for such a dumb trap.
That's not really suggested though. His certainly stronger than Piccolo, who appears to be weaker than your average Super Saiyan, but nothing in the manga suggests his Blue tier.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Raphael_Z » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:17 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
Raphael_Z wrote:
dragonball0900 wrote: A shame really. I wonder why did they choose that order of eliminations? Why did Toriyama decided to eliminate Krillin first? Why Roshi after Krillin and Tien? Why Android 18 after Piccolo? If it was an anime only thing, then I wouldn't mind. But now that it was said that Toriyama decided for both manga and anime to be the SAME order makes me wonder why did they decided to eliminate some U7 fighters before the others.
1. Because this is the first time since the Piccolo Saga that Roshi will actually have the time to shine thanks to Mafuba (I don't count RoF since he was fodder much like Krilin and Tien). Tien and Krilin had their moments in Z, now it's Roshi's turn.

2. Roshi and Frieza aside, the order of elimination seems to be power-level related (Krilin < Tien < Piccolo < 18 < Gohan < 17 < Vegeta < Goku). Yes, Piccolo surpassed both 17 and 18 when he gained his last relevant power up back in the Android Saga but if A17 is now Blue-Tier, it isn't impossible to think that 18 is at least a little bit stronger than Piccolo (at least her unlimited energy means she will never tire in a battle). I kind of doubt that Piccolo would have been able to defeat Super Ribrianne with the ease that 18 did.

Also, during an interview, Toriyama said he wrote EXACTLY the way in which Piccolo would be eliminated (trolled by the invisible enemy) so maybe it's some sort of narrative irony that one of the smartest strategic fighters with hyper senses fell for such a dumb trap.
That's not really suggested though. His certainly stronger than Piccolo, who appears to be weaker than your average Super Saiyan, but nothing in the manga suggests his Blue tier.
At least in the anime, 17 managed to:

-Hurt Jiren by catching him off-guard (something that Kaioken Blue Goku, Royal Blue Vegeta and Golden Frieza, who is Blue Level by now, all failed to do).
-Briefly spar with a "serious Jiren" who at this stage is actually using more power than the one he used with SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta and UI Omen Goku.
-Nullify Jiren's big energy ball by using his barrier and self-destructing.
-Held his own against Pride Trooper Toppo AND God of Destruction Toppo without being ringed out.

He is certainly above Ultimate Gohan in the anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TekTheNinja » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:23 pm

So the humans, sans Roshi, are still treated like utter shit? Damn. Seriously fuck Super and all its writing.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Slaythe » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:28 pm

Raphael_Z wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Raphael_Z wrote:
1. Because this is the first time since the Piccolo Saga that Roshi will actually have the time to shine thanks to Mafuba (I don't count RoF since he was fodder much like Krilin and Tien). Tien and Krilin had their moments in Z, now it's Roshi's turn.

2. Roshi and Frieza aside, the order of elimination seems to be power-level related (Krilin < Tien < Piccolo < 18 < Gohan < 17 < Vegeta < Goku). Yes, Piccolo surpassed both 17 and 18 when he gained his last relevant power up back in the Android Saga but if A17 is now Blue-Tier, it isn't impossible to think that 18 is at least a little bit stronger than Piccolo (at least her unlimited energy means she will never tire in a battle). I kind of doubt that Piccolo would have been able to defeat Super Ribrianne with the ease that 18 did.

Also, during an interview, Toriyama said he wrote EXACTLY the way in which Piccolo would be eliminated (trolled by the invisible enemy) so maybe it's some sort of narrative irony that one of the smartest strategic fighters with hyper senses fell for such a dumb trap.
That's not really suggested though. His certainly stronger than Piccolo, who appears to be weaker than your average Super Saiyan, but nothing in the manga suggests his Blue tier.
At least in the anime, 17 managed to:

-Hurt Jiren by catching him off-guard (something that Kaioken Blue Goku, Royal Blue Vegeta and Golden Frieza, who is Blue Level by now, all failed to do).
-Briefly spar with a "serious Jiren" who at this stage is actually using more power than the one he used with SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta and UI Omen Goku.
-Nullify Jiren's big energy ball by using his barrier and self-destructing.
-Held his own against Pride Trooper Toppo AND God of Destruction Toppo without being ringed out.

He is certainly above Ultimate Gohan in the anime.
Maybe that's how it was conveyed (because 17 needed to shine after being absent for so long) but it seems pretty clear that Trunks Gohan and 17 are in the same ball park in terms of power. I assume Gohan is a bit stronger but 17's techniques, biology and strategies put him on par if not slightly above.

The point the show tries to make is that the non god ki users have kind of maxed out their potential (that includes Freeza) while Goku and Vegeta went beyond those "mortal" limits.

17's feats were all due to his tactics and powers. Remember even Sorbet damaged Blue Goku.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:28 pm

picc wrote:
TheMikado wrote: I mean this is the crux of this. These guys aren’t special little snowflakes because they hang out with the protagonists. It’s a royal rumble and what’s supposed to happen is happening. The weaker opponents are getting taken out left and right.

Toei did this weird setup where it’s more like a progressive staged tournament when if fact there should have been insanity and characters getting knocked out left and right against unevenly matched characters.
Essentially. I actually would have liked to see tien and krillin put in some work on weaker characters before they left. But if the writer is going for realism, I respect that too.

Even in the anime, people acted like Krillin letting his guard down was the reason he got knocked off. As if Frost wasn't going to fodderize him anyway.
But I think that’s part of the problem, there was this perception that krillin may have somehow been able to defend himself if Frost “fought fair”.

I keep bringing up the Roshi scenario because the guy used the mafuba technique a bunch of times and by all accounts should have been half dead if not fully dead without a senzu bean in sight and doesn’t get immediately backhanded out of the ring like an insect against Frost.
I mean we are talking near peak Frost against exhausted Roshi...

Anyway the point I’m making is that the anime gave this huge training arcs, krillins fight against ultimate gohan or SSB Goku was just a hint towards “raw power isn’t everything” and there’s always a chance a weaker character could prevail or perform above expectations.

In the manga you aren’t really getting that. Storywise that’s just my preference we saw krillin and Tien basically do absolutely nothing but be fodder in the cell saga onwards and they acknowledge it. Yes they had moments where they stalled the inevitable but at no point did you think they had a chance against Cell or Buu. But if the issue is that they didn’t take out any weaker opponents I can understand but this just goes back to what people said before the tournament even started.

The most powerful characters in the ring could just power up and blow away all the fodder in the first few minutes and that’s basically what’s happening which I was never opposed to. My only issue has been the tournament style structure in what’s supposed to be a royal rumble and how some match ups are played up for drama. Honestly my favorite scene for the ToP manga has been walking Jiren smack people left and right like insignificant flies as he’s on his way to somewhere. That’s what I was expecting from a royal rumble.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:29 pm

Raphael_Z wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Raphael_Z wrote:
1. Because this is the first time since the Piccolo Saga that Roshi will actually have the time to shine thanks to Mafuba (I don't count RoF since he was fodder much like Krilin and Tien). Tien and Krilin had their moments in Z, now it's Roshi's turn.

2. Roshi and Frieza aside, the order of elimination seems to be power-level related (Krilin < Tien < Piccolo < 18 < Gohan < 17 < Vegeta < Goku). Yes, Piccolo surpassed both 17 and 18 when he gained his last relevant power up back in the Android Saga but if A17 is now Blue-Tier, it isn't impossible to think that 18 is at least a little bit stronger than Piccolo (at least her unlimited energy means she will never tire in a battle). I kind of doubt that Piccolo would have been able to defeat Super Ribrianne with the ease that 18 did.

Also, during an interview, Toriyama said he wrote EXACTLY the way in which Piccolo would be eliminated (trolled by the invisible enemy) so maybe it's some sort of narrative irony that one of the smartest strategic fighters with hyper senses fell for such a dumb trap.
That's not really suggested though. His certainly stronger than Piccolo, who appears to be weaker than your average Super Saiyan, but nothing in the manga suggests his Blue tier.
At least in the anime, 17 managed to:

-Hurt Jiren by catching him off-guard (something that Kaioken Blue Goku, Royal Blue Vegeta and Golden Frieza, who is Blue Level by now, all failed to do).
-Briefly spar with a "serious Jiren" who at this stage is actually using more power than the one he used with SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta and UI Omen Goku.
-Nullify Jiren's big energy ball by using his barrier and self-destructing.
-Held his own against Pride Trooper Toppo AND God of Destruction Toppo without being ringed out.

He is certainly above Ultimate Gohan in the anime.
Maybe in the anime, but nothing really suggests that in the manga, where the best he seems to be capable of is going toe to toe with Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ToshioWrites » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:38 pm

The point the show tries to make is that the non god ki users have kind of maxed out their potential (that includes Freeza) while Goku and Vegeta went beyond those "mortal" limits.

I don't know about the maxed out potential thing. Frieza got a lot stronger while stuck in hell and Gohan became far stronger than his buu arc self without putting in as much time as Goku and Vegeta.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dragonball0900 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:46 pm

Raphael_Z wrote: 1. Because this is the first time since the Piccolo Saga that Roshi will actually have the time to shine thanks to Mafuba (I don't count RoF since he was fodder much like Krilin and Tien). Tien and Krilin had their moments in Z, now it's Roshi's turn. (Also, if the Vegeta-Roshi interactions were Toriyama's idea this is THE first time in the history of DB that the two exchange words although I do wonder who they'll face now since Frost seems to be out. Maybe a Pride Trooper?).

2. Roshi and Frieza aside, the order of elimination seems to be power-level related (Krilin < Tien < Piccolo < 18 < Gohan < 17 < Vegeta < Goku). Yes, Piccolo surpassed both 17 and 18 when he gained his last relevant power up back in the Android Saga but if A17 is now Blue-Tier, it isn't impossible to think that 18 is at least a little bit stronger than Piccolo (at least her unlimited energy means she will never tire in a battle). I kind of doubt that Piccolo would have been able to defeat Super Ribrianne with the ease that 18 did.

Also, during an interview, Toriyama said he wrote EXACTLY the way in which Piccolo would be eliminated (trolled by the invisible enemy) so maybe it's some sort of narrative irony that one of the smartest strategic fighters with hyper senses fell for such a dumb trap.
I get that the Mafuba is a dangerous technique and all, but there have been times where Roshi used his buff transformation to defeat others, incluiding Tien in that anime episode. If they wanted to make Roshi shine more than the other two, then there would have been other ways to do so instead of making Tien and Krillin look like fools and fodder in comparison to him, because that's exactly what Roshi should be, fodder. However, this doesn't compare to what I will be talking about next:

Piccolo being below Android 18 is completely dumb and exaggerated. 18 didn't make ANYTHING throughout the series that makes her that overpowered. Roshi and 17 at least had the excuse of "training" (although I still don't like that myself). 18 on the other hand, did not show any significant gains at all throughout the course of the series. She was way weaker than SSJ Goten and Trunks in the Buu arc (to the point that their power shocked her immensely), who were both weaker than Piccolo. In the BOG arc, against Beerus, Piccolo seems to be more of the leader between him, 18 and Tien. In the U6 arc, Piccolo was the one chosen for the U6 tournament instead of 18.

And 18 never trained unlike 17, as well as a data book (I don't remember which one, could be an interview or something like that) said that in comparison to 17, 18's power was suppressed, meaning that she has less chances to get insane increases like 17. 18 overpowering Piccolo (and 17 getting close to blue level) in the TOP is just a pathetic excuse to make the androids look cool (just like Roshi in comparison to Tien and Krillin), when in reality, Piccolo should be stronger than 18 by a whole lot. Unfortunately there are also proof that shows that 18 increased her power, such as her defeating opponents that made the base saiyans have trouble (Tupper, Jimeze, Ribrianne), when the base saiyans like Goku should already be above Frieza and the androids (at least from the Cell arc) at this point after lots of training they had. Though we also have one of the writers of Super that compared Piccolo to Frost, Gohan and 17, never mentioned 18 there, so that's something. I also don't think Piccolo wouldn't defeat Ribrianne as easy as 18 did. It is possible when looking at it, there's not really any proof to show that he wouldn't do.

That's why I didn't like 18 being eliminated after Piccolo, it either confuses people to think 18's stronger than him, or it would mean that she is indeed stronger than Piccolo, as well as Roshi being stronger than Tien and Krillin, and that Super has done it again with these crazy and incosistent power ups.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The_Destroyer » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:00 am

I blame Roshi for the poor treatment of Krillin and Tien in the ToP on both mediums. It’s clear that they made the later two look bad just so Roshi can look better. Fuck Roshi, shouldn’t be in this tournament and shouldn’t have been in RoF. The 3rd human spot in the human trio rightfully belongs to Yamcha, Roshi can fuck off.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:16 am

JazzMazz wrote:Kuririn and Tien didn't recieve any build-up for them doing well, Kuririn is stated to be out of touch, and Tien wasn't even recruited on panel. I don't see how people could expect big things from them.

Eliminating two warriors from the get go is a good idea though. It leaves universe 7 with some kind of numbers disadvantage and actually makes the field feel somewhat competitive in comparison to the anime, where universe 7 literally annihilated everyone easily.

Also, hopefully Roshi's out next chapter, espicially considering how closely eliminated they were in conjunction to the anime.

Having early eliminations actually helps create a sense of tension, espicially if they're behind other universes in terms of numbers, or merely neck and neck with them.

In other words, there eliminations do serve a point in progressing and benefitting the story.

Can't pass full judgment yet, but I'm looking forward to it based on the outline.
But the manga fixes everything!

While I agree with most of your points, Toyo could have given them something. They didn't even need to knock out someone, just have them do a rescue of a teammate or something. The way he wrote them here U7 might as well brought Jaco and Monaka.

In the anime, U7 lost someone as early as 98 while U6 kept their full team until 103. In fact, almost everyone had a full team outside of U10 by the time Krillin went out.
Last edited by HeroR on Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Freeza9000 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:20 am

After seeing the recent spoilers, I do wonder with a finger up my chin what the "Toyotaro-san will redeem everything!" people have to say now. But since I'm just a fellow subservient apologist for the anime of Super, I guess I can't exactly win here either.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Raphael_Z » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:23 am

The_Destroyer wrote:I blame Roshi for the poor treatment of Krillin and Tien in the ToP on both mediums. It’s clear that they made the later two look bad just so Roshi can look better. Fuck Roshi, shouldn’t be in this tournament and shouldn’t have been in RoF. The 3rd human spot in the human trio rightfully belongs to Yamcha, Roshi can fuck off.
Out of the 3 Earthlings, as shown in the anime at least, Roshi is the only one with the techniques to actually spar with (and potentially defeat) Frost. Even if Krillin wasn't caught off guard in the anime, nothing in Krillin's arsenal could have been a match against Frost, who again, is AT LEAST Namek's Final Form Frieza (and possibly even Perfect Cell Level or more) in terms of power.

And no, even if Krilin had used Solar Flare to blind him, Frost would have been able to sense his ki (or just hear him). And even if Krilin managed to land a hit, it would have been 0 effective against Frost, who again, is REALLY powerful.

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