"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:10 am

Zeno erasing the 8 universe was going to happen. Grand Priest flat out states this in the anime and in the manga. Hell, in the manga, the 8 universes were about to be erased without a thought if not for Goku visiting Zeno when he did. The justifications for erasing the 8 universes was that their mortal level wasn't good enough to justify their existence and Zeno for a while has thought there have simply been too many universes. 8 universes were going to get erased without a single thought. It just a matter of when and not if. And Goku reminding Zeno the Multiverse Tournament guaranteed at least one less universe would get erased.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:15 am

TheMikado wrote:Really need to end this false justification...
We know for a fact 20 years in the future the universes still exist thanks to the Future Trunks arc which means we know without intervention that this ToP or erasing did not and would not have occurred during that time period. How long or if at all are debatable but it would be reasonable to think it wouldn’t be for a very long time if at all.
This, exactly.
I think Zeno would've forgot it. At least in the anime.
The manga tries to give some leeway by showing Zeno was about to destroy those universes... how convenient :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:48 am

Lord Beerus wrote:Zeno erasing the 8 universe was going to happen. Grand Priest flat out states this in the anime and in the manga. Hell, in the manga, the 8 universes were about to be erased without a thought if not for Goku visiting Zeno when he did. The justifications for erasing the 8 universes was that their mortal level wasn't good enough to justify their existence and Zeno for a while has thought there have simply been too many universes. 8 universes were going to get erased without a single thought. It just a matter of when and not if. And Goku reminding Zeno the Multiverse Tournament guaranteed at least one less universe would get erased.
In the manga this only happened because there were two Zenos which only happened due to the events of Future Trunks where Goku calls Zeno.

The thing is we know without these events the erasure doesn’t happen in that time frame because Trunks future existing at all proved that definitively even within the context of Super itself.

Without Goku, the universes continue to exist at least 20 years into the future. The argument could be made that Trunks just happened to come back right before they were destroyed but you could equally argue they wouldn’t have been destroyed until a million years from now if ever.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:33 am

TheMikado wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Zeno erasing the 8 universe was going to happen. Grand Priest flat out states this in the anime and in the manga. Hell, in the manga, the 8 universes were about to be erased without a thought if not for Goku visiting Zeno when he did. The justifications for erasing the 8 universes was that their mortal level wasn't good enough to justify their existence and Zeno for a while has thought there have simply been too many universes. 8 universes were going to get erased without a single thought. It just a matter of when and not if. And Goku reminding Zeno the Multiverse Tournament guaranteed at least one less universe would get erased.
In the manga this only happened because there were two Zenos which only happened due to the events of Future Trunks where Goku calls Zeno.

The thing is we know without these events the erasure doesn’t happen in that time frame because Trunks future existing at all proved that definitively even within the context of Super itself.

Without Goku, the universes continue to exist at least 20 years into the future. The argument could be made that Trunks just happened to come back right before they were destroyed but you could equally argue they wouldn’t have been destroyed until a million years from now if ever.
it must be be noted that Zeno erased 6 universes in the past over getting upset about something. So when he has the conviction to erase a universe, or several at a time, he will do it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:01 am

picc wrote: However, I do recognize that if you choose to support/sympathize characters like that, as ridiculous as it is, its your choice. I think it says far less about the characters than it does about you. But kudos.
I was with you until this comment.

People can be sympathetic to even the worst monsters in history. We're all people, and most people can be empathetic to other people, even ones who aren't the nicest people. All it says about people who feel sympathy for anime U9 is that they can feel sympathy.

The argument you should be making and should stick to is that the manga makes it far EASIER to be able to sympathize with the characters because it didn't vilify them. It didn't make them underhanded, or scheming. It made them just regular guys trying to not die. That's more sympathetic than a bunch of sleazy villainous, treacherous people getting erased.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:37 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Zeno erasing the 8 universe was going to happen. Grand Priest flat out states this in the anime and in the manga. Hell, in the manga, the 8 universes were about to be erased without a thought if not for Goku visiting Zeno when he did. The justifications for erasing the 8 universes was that their mortal level wasn't good enough to justify their existence and Zeno for a while has thought there have simply been too many universes. 8 universes were going to get erased without a single thought. It just a matter of when and not if. And Goku reminding Zeno the Multiverse Tournament guaranteed at least one less universe would get erased.
In the manga this only happened because there were two Zenos which only happened due to the events of Future Trunks where Goku calls Zeno.

The thing is we know without these events the erasure doesn’t happen in that time frame because Trunks future existing at all proved that definitively even within the context of Super itself.

Without Goku, the universes continue to exist at least 20 years into the future. The argument could be made that Trunks just happened to come back right before they were destroyed but you could equally argue they wouldn’t have been destroyed until a million years from now if ever.
it must be be noted that Zeno erased 6 universes in the past over getting upset about something. So when he has the conviction to erase a universe, or several at a time, he will do it.
Of course, I agree with that which is why it's hard to believe he would actually get around to erasing the universes without Goku.
If he actually wanted to do it so badly he would have already done so in Trunks timeline. It just lends to the idea that erasing universes wasn't a priority until the events of the Future Trunks timeline.
Zeno didn't mention anything about wanting to erase universes when we first see him in the universe 6/7 tournament despite him already having any idea for a multi-universe tournament.

Every indication in Super is that the immediate catalyst for the erasure happening at this time is Zeno's involvement in the Future Trunks arc when Goku called him into it. Without these events the universes go on existing in Trunks timeline.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:45 am

TheMikado wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
In the manga this only happened because there were two Zenos which only happened due to the events of Future Trunks where Goku calls Zeno.

The thing is we know without these events the erasure doesn’t happen in that time frame because Trunks future existing at all proved that definitively even within the context of Super itself.

Without Goku, the universes continue to exist at least 20 years into the future. The argument could be made that Trunks just happened to come back right before they were destroyed but you could equally argue they wouldn’t have been destroyed until a million years from now if ever.
it must be be noted that Zeno erased 6 universes in the past over getting upset about something. So when he has the conviction to erase a universe, or several at a time, he will do it.
Of course, I agree with that which is why it's hard to believe he would actually get around to erasing the universes without Goku.
If he actually wanted to do it so badly he would have already done so in Trunks timeline. It just lends to the idea that erasing universes wasn't a priority until the events of the Future Trunks timeline.
Zeno didn't mention anything about wanting to erase universes when we first see him in the universe 6/7 tournament despite him already having any idea for a multi-universe tournament.

Every indication in Super is that the immediate catalyst for the erasure happening at this time is Zeno's involvement in the Future Trunks arc when Goku called him into it. Without these events the universes go on existing in Trunks timeline.
But the main point is that when Zeno want to erase a universe, he eventually does it. It's never a matter of if, but when. And why would Zeno mention wanting to erase 8 universe in front of two of the eight universes he would want to erase?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:01 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
TheMikado wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: it must be be noted that Zeno erased 6 universes in the past over getting upset about something. So when he has the conviction to erase a universe, or several at a time, he will do it.
Of course, I agree with that which is why it's hard to believe he would actually get around to erasing the universes without Goku.
If he actually wanted to do it so badly he would have already done so in Trunks timeline. It just lends to the idea that erasing universes wasn't a priority until the events of the Future Trunks timeline.
Zeno didn't mention anything about wanting to erase universes when we first see him in the universe 6/7 tournament despite him already having any idea for a multi-universe tournament.

Every indication in Super is that the immediate catalyst for the erasure happening at this time is Zeno's involvement in the Future Trunks arc when Goku called him into it. Without these events the universes go on existing in Trunks timeline.
But the main point is that when Zeno want to erase a universe, he eventually does it. It's never a matter of if, but when. And why would Zeno mention wanting to erase 8 universe in front of two of the eight universes he would want to erase?
In the context of the story and the protagonists, Zen'o could want to erase them millions or billions of years later. Saying that it still matters would be like us worrying about our ancestors being destroyed in billion years. In the context of our protagonists a billion years in the future might as well be "never". Besides if we are looking at what could possibly happen in the future, who is to say Zeno won't decide to erase them all a year from now or 10 years from now. Goku didn't save anything because the threat never goes away. But he does accelerate something that could have taken any length of time to occur and why would Zeno worry about mentioning he wants to erase people? What are they going to do about it? They can't stop him and they can't run away and acts like a child so I doubt he would care if they knew.

In the end we know:
Future Trunks timeline proves that universe erasure and ToP didn't happen yet
The topic of universe erasure is only brought up in the story following the two zeno and future Trunks arc.
While Zeno may have wanted to do it for a while, he hasn't done it yet and without Goku and Future Trunks, doesn't do it in the next 20 years.
We have no idea when he would have actually done it or if it would have mattered to anyone at all at the point he did do it.
When ever Zeno would have done it, Goku accelerated it and caused it to occur immediately.
Even if they stop him from erasing universes this time, Zeno has erased universes before and nothing is stopping him from erasing universes after this.

We can't say Goku saved anyone because universe erasure wasn't an immediate threat as shown by Trunks Future.
Even if we want to claim it was an immediate threat, the threat of erasing universes is never gone so at best Goku gave universes a chance in a round or erasing that he himself accelerated and in the next round erasing there may not even be a ToP.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Akyon » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:01 am

picc wrote:
Akyon wrote:
picc wrote:I'm more flabbergasted that the extra time spent with U9 in the anime made people MORE upset about their erasure. :wtf: There were almost no redeeming qualities whatsoever about them -- even their universe was a literal garbage dump.

And their fighters were either cocky assholes or cowards who actually jumped from the arena themselves.

They used freaking poison against U7. AND their GoD and kaioshin tried to assassinate Goku pre tournament!

Fuck those guys. I felt nothing at all when got zeno'd, but the only emotion their anime erasure should have elicited is joy.
It's really not that difficult to see why? Good ol' Bergamo is the answer, and he's the reason you even get a smidgen of care for Universe 9 here.

During the exhibition match a lot of people sided with Bergamo. Goku was morally ambigious at best, whilst Bergamo just wanted his brothers, his universe and the other univeses to be left alive. Unlike Goku's "I wanna fight strong opponents and I don't care about the consequences that causes" schtick, this is a far more human and relatable attitude to have.

Honestly I can't blame Sidra and Rou for trying to assassinate Goku pre tournament. Like at all.
It was his fault Zeno was reminded of this tournament to erase everyone, Beerus tried to warn him and he ignored him, and when the Zenos agreed not to erase anyone if Bergamo won against Goku, Goku couldn't even hold back a tiny bit for the continued survival of potentially billions and billions of people.
Goku's practically a bonafide villain during the exhibition match. It's why Toppo wanted to kick his ass so badly, it's why all the GoDs and Kais held a grudge against Universe 7, and it's the reason the fanbase here on Kanzenshuu seemed to turn on the protagonist during that period.
During the Exhibition match, the characters were under the impression that Goku inspired a tournament whose sole purpose was to erase universes.

An incorrect opinion that people on these boards ironically still share, despite it being clearly stated they would have all been erased if not for Goku.

Nothing redeeming about U9 at all.
Goku didn't mean to inspire it(as granted he didn't know everyone would get erased at the time), but that's still the end result. Him vs. Hit was witnessed by Zeno, Zeno had forgotten about the ToP entirely until Goku reminded him, so yes...he actually really did inspire whether it was his intention or not.

Accident aside, he becomes painfully aware before the Zen match of the stakes. So one would assume he'd try his best to NOT get everyone killed especially as he looks genuinely shocked after. This is a nice moment for Goku where he realises his recklessness has concequences...until the Zen Match starts.

Bergamo manages to sweet talk Zeno around and Zeno even agrees to not destroy anyone should Bergamo defeat Goku, with the blue wolf managing to stand up to SSB...but then Goku for no reason whatsoever decides to use Kaioken and dooms everyone rather than just making the fight look good to try and trick Zeno into him not holding back. He forgets what is happening in the middle of that fight alongside his original desire to NOT get everyone killed because...plot has to happen I guess?

Fuck Universe 9? Fuck Goku.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzk1999 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:30 am

I just want to say that Akyon, I hope you remember that it wa specifically said that if goku held back, The universes would be destroyed right there and then. I honestly think Zeno was just purposely messing with universe 9 at that point.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:42 am

Akyon wrote:Accident aside, he becomes painfully aware before the Zen match of the stakes. So one would assume he'd try his best to NOT get everyone killed especially as he looks genuinely shocked after. This is a nice moment for Goku where he realises his recklessness has concequences...until the Zen Match starts.
Goku does make the suggestion of going to Zeno to convince him to get rid of stipulation to erasing the universes taking part in the Tournament Of Power, but Whis shoots down that suggestion because it could possibly anger Zeno and lead to Goku getting erased on the spot for even making such a query in the first place when Zeno is very much adamant about erasing 7 universes.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:39 pm

I just re-read the last two Chapters, and something has been botheting me. The arena looks REALLY tiny. Toyotaro should really fix how big it is in comparaison to the fighters.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:48 pm

Akyon wrote:
picc wrote:
Akyon wrote:
It's really not that difficult to see why? Good ol' Bergamo is the answer, and he's the reason you even get a smidgen of care for Universe 9 here.

During the exhibition match a lot of people sided with Bergamo. Goku was morally ambigious at best, whilst Bergamo just wanted his brothers, his universe and the other univeses to be left alive. Unlike Goku's "I wanna fight strong opponents and I don't care about the consequences that causes" schtick, this is a far more human and relatable attitude to have.

Honestly I can't blame Sidra and Rou for trying to assassinate Goku pre tournament. Like at all.
It was his fault Zeno was reminded of this tournament to erase everyone, Beerus tried to warn him and he ignored him, and when the Zenos agreed not to erase anyone if Bergamo won against Goku, Goku couldn't even hold back a tiny bit for the continued survival of potentially billions and billions of people.
Goku's practically a bonafide villain during the exhibition match. It's why Toppo wanted to kick his ass so badly, it's why all the GoDs and Kais held a grudge against Universe 7, and it's the reason the fanbase here on Kanzenshuu seemed to turn on the protagonist during that period.
During the Exhibition match, the characters were under the impression that Goku inspired a tournament whose sole purpose was to erase universes.

An incorrect opinion that people on these boards ironically still share, despite it being clearly stated they would have all been erased if not for Goku.

Nothing redeeming about U9 at all.
Goku didn't mean to inspire it(as granted he didn't know everyone would get erased at the time), but that's still the end result. Him vs. Hit was witnessed by Zeno, Zeno had forgotten about the ToP entirely until Goku reminded him, so yes...he actually really did inspire whether it was his intention or not.

Accident aside, he becomes painfully aware before the Zen match of the stakes. So one would assume he'd try his best to NOT get everyone killed especially as he looks genuinely shocked after. This is a nice moment for Goku where he realises his recklessness has concequences...until the Zen Match starts.

Bergamo manages to sweet talk Zeno around and Zeno even agrees to not destroy anyone should Bergamo defeat Goku, with the blue wolf managing to stand up to SSB...but then Goku for no reason whatsoever decides to use Kaioken and dooms everyone rather than just making the fight look good to try and trick Zeno into him not holding back. He forgets what is happening in the middle of that fight alongside his original desire to NOT get everyone killed because...plot has to happen I guess?

Fuck Universe 9? Fuck Goku.
"Compassionate" zeno makes it even more weird. Even if Goku had thrown the tournament to Bergamo wouldn't Goku be the only one erased for not going all out? What was Zeno's threat exactly again? I dont remember the exact wording but it seems like of Goku cared about anyone or wanted to fix his mistake he would let Bergamo win and let zeno destroy him for not going all it, saving all the universes and his own family at the cost of his life.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:18 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Zeno erasing the 8 universe was going to happen. Grand Priest flat out states this in the anime and in the manga. Hell, in the manga, the 8 universes were about to be erased without a thought if not for Goku visiting Zeno when he did. The justifications for erasing the 8 universes was that their mortal level wasn't good enough to justify their existence and Zeno for a while has thought there have simply been too many universes. 8 universes were going to get erased without a single thought. It just a matter of when and not if. And Goku reminding Zeno the Multiverse Tournament guaranteed at least one less universe would get erased.
Again, this was only happening because GOKU brought a 2nd Zeno to the past to begin with. We see this in the manga. The only reason they were going to erase universes is because too many universes made their 2 player games too complicated.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:42 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote:I just re-read the last two Chapters, and something has been botheting me. The arena looks REALLY tiny. Toyotaro should really fix how big it is in comparaison to the fighters.
Yeah the perspective is off. To me it always looks like everyone is near the edge.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Akyon » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:52 pm

Dbzk1999 wrote:I just want to say that Akyon, I hope you remember that it wa specifically said that if goku held back, The universes would be destroyed right there and then. I honestly think Zeno was just purposely messing with universe 9 at that point.
I mean it's possible that Zeno was messing with Bergamo, but (at least in the anime) he doesn't exactly come off as someone who can understand complex thought processes such as playing a prank. Heck, he doesn't understand much mortal emotions other than boredom, fun, excitement and annoyance. They/he is very child like after all.

I really do think Zeno is far far more straight forward than that; Goku says to Zeno that Zamasu is the one causing all the issues in Trunks timeline and it'd be good if Zeno got rid of him...well Zamasu's essence at that point IS the universe, so Zeno does the literal thing and destroys the entire universe. I just can't see him not doing something he promises he'll do.

I suppose it's possible Zeno would destroy the universes if Goku held back but there's not really any way to tell if Goku was holding back or not.
Lord Beerus wrote:
Akyon wrote:Accident aside, he becomes painfully aware before the Zen match of the stakes. So one would assume he'd try his best to NOT get everyone killed especially as he looks genuinely shocked after. This is a nice moment for Goku where he realises his recklessness has concequences...until the Zen Match starts.
Goku does make the suggestion of going to Zeno to convince him to get rid of stipulation to erasing the universes taking part in the Tournament Of Power, but Whis shoots down that suggestion because it could possibly anger Zeno and lead to Goku getting erased on the spot for even making such a query in the first place when Zeno is very much adamant about erasing 7 universes.
He certainly does Lord Beerus, but that just makes it all the odder when Bergamo does the exact thing Goku suggests and puts his life on the line and Goku's motivation suddenly changes. Bergamo took the risk and Goku would lose nothing from that loss providing he made it look convincing. Obviously in the manga this is done far far differently and doesn't paint Goku in anywhere near as a negative light because he simply doesn't have this option available.

Incidentally, this conversation was originally about why people got so attached to the Trio and universe 9 and I think this may be the true reason; Bergamo there just risked his existance to save all the universes by doing the exact thing Whis told Goku not to try and do and without even having that close friendship that Goku had with Zeno.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:51 pm

Akyon wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Akyon wrote:Accident aside, he becomes painfully aware before the Zen match of the stakes. So one would assume he'd try his best to NOT get everyone killed especially as he looks genuinely shocked after. This is a nice moment for Goku where he realises his recklessness has concequences...until the Zen Match starts.
Goku does make the suggestion of going to Zeno to convince him to get rid of stipulation to erasing the universes taking part in the Tournament Of Power, but Whis shoots down that suggestion because it could possibly anger Zeno and lead to Goku getting erased on the spot for even making such a query in the first place when Zeno is very much adamant about erasing 7 universes.
He certainly does Lord Beerus, but that just makes it all the odder when Bergamo does the exact thing Goku suggests and puts his life on the line and Goku's motivation suddenly changes. Bergamo took the risk and Goku would lose nothing from that loss providing he made it look convincing. Obviously in the manga this is done far far differently and doesn't paint Goku in anywhere near as a negative light because he simply doesn't have this option available.

Incidentally, this conversation was originally about why people got so attached to the Trio and universe 9 and I think this may be the true reason; Bergamo there just risked his existance to save all the universes by doing the exact thing Whis told Goku not to try and do and without even having that close friendship that Goku had with Zeno.
The stipulation Bergamo made to Zeno was only entertained if Goku fought Bergamo with all his strength, and if Goku were to hold back, Zeno would wipe all the universes. It was no-win situation. If Goku started sandbagging, everyone would die. So Goku had no choice but to go full throttle.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Olympian » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:48 pm

TKA wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:Krillin and Tien were treated better in the anime, that's a fact
No, their fandoms were treated better.

The manga treats their characters better by involving them in something actually interesting, rather than diluting their presence and impact with filler fights against fodder warriors.
SUrely something interesting can still be done for the characters while using them for the big plot? Kuririn and Roshi`s mini character arcs were certainly well done and the way both got out had something to do with their arcs. That`s the sort of meaningful concent fanbases expect from returning favorites.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by picc » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:48 pm

kemuri07 wrote:No I really didn't.

So wait, should U9 have been utterly grateful towards to Goku? Shit, are you now going to tell me that Goku instigated the tournament because he wanted to save everyone?

A shit sandwich is still a shit sandwich, no matter how you try and sugarcoat it.

It also doesn't help at all that Goku was kinda an ass about it.
They should be grateful at best. At worst, they should be ambivalent. What they absolutely should not be, is angry.

Which is whats so weird about the antagonism toward Goku in this thread/on this board, in respect to the tournament. At the very worst, Goku is an unwitting potential benefactor of every universe involved. He doesn't need to be revered as a hero, but he sure as fuck didn't make everyone's chances WORSE.

The argument about the future proving the tournament wasn't a factor gives far, far too much credit to the creators as well. Just like the silly power level discussions using A-B-C logic that Toei has been proven to not give a damn about, the universes existing in the future is neither here nor there as far as they are concerned.

They are simply creating stories, and from watching Super we should all be well aware they are not meticulously weaving these stories together in an attempt to be consistent and precise. As far as the current production is concerned, the universes are getting erased.
Last edited by picc on Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by picc » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:55 pm

TKA wrote:
picc wrote: However, I do recognize that if you choose to support/sympathize characters like that, as ridiculous as it is, its your choice. I think it says far less about the characters than it does about you. But kudos.
I was with you until this comment.

People can be sympathetic to even the worst monsters in history. We're all people, and most people can be empathetic to other people, even ones who aren't the nicest people. All it says about people who feel sympathy for anime U9 is that they can feel sympathy.

The argument you should be making and should stick to is that the manga makes it far EASIER to be able to sympathize with the characters because it didn't vilify them. It didn't make them underhanded, or scheming. It made them just regular guys trying to not die. That's more sympathetic than a bunch of sleazy villainous, treacherous people getting erased.
Fair enough. And agreed.

My original point wasn't even about U9 being sympathetic or not. It was that complaining that the manga depiction of their erasure wasn't emotional enough is unfair, based on that animated productions can manipulate emotions far better than drawn productions can.

The dramatically sad music and long reaction shots of the anime can't be duplicated in pencil, so I find that criticism extremely unfair regardless of how one feels about Universe 9.
Planet Namek Bred

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