"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[JazzMazz]

As someone who has read Bleach (very minimalistic use of backgrounds) and One Piece (very cluttered panels), I cannot overstate how much backgrounds can break a panel.

The creator of Bleach once said he instructs his assistants not to draw in backgrounds in many panels because they detract from the characters by making a reader’s eyes dart around the panel instead of focusing on the character. In most cases, he’s absolutely right. Backgrounds exist to tell you where characters are, the scale and so on, but after a couple establishing panels, they really don’t need to be in every panel or even every page.

Accuse Bleach of whatever you want, but it’s pretty damn hard to deny that Tite Kubo is a fantastic artist. This Super manga, which is cluttered with text bubbles doesn’t also need backgrounds filling up most of the panels too.

Yeah, There doesn’t need to be backgrounds in every panel.

My problem with Toyotarō is his pages with so much dialogue. He breaks them into so many panels that are just facial shit to another facial shot. That doesn’t need to happen. Each speech bubble doesn’t need its own panel.

The dialogue is great don’t get me wrong, but the pages with just nothing but close ups on character’s faces is rather boring.

It’s why i suggested a panel where Goku and Hit discuss how to beat Jiren within 3 or so panels. One facial shot of Goku, one of Hit, then the next panel focuses on Jiren slowly walking towards them, displayed in a Very intimidating manner. A typical shot, but I’d find it more enjoyable than just going from face to face per sentence. I find that just as distracting as if it were to have multiple backgrounds.

Manga is a visual medium, so I think panelling that actually visually conveys idea's even in more mundane dialogue sequences is important in a manga, I would say even more so than the anime. I would say Toyo did a very competent job of this during his presentation of Black during the very early parts of the future Trunks arc, however, I feel like that's something this chapter kind of lacked in specifically. For Jiren's big introductory bad guy chapter, it really could have been handled better, at the very least in terms of panelling.

[Marlowe89]

I don’t understand either why people were invested in U6’s “Family” dynamic.

I can sort of see why people would have the impression of a "family" dynamic for Universe 6 since the Tournament of Power is actually the third time that some of them teamed up in the anime (even though that really only applies to Cabba, Magetta and Botamo). The problem is that Hit has no place in that dynamic, assuming it exists at all -- he has no personal investment in any of these characters, no reason to bet on their power, and absolutely no chance of any kind of camaraderie with Caulifla and Kale. Everyone on the team is little more than a nobody to him, so his interactions with them in the anime's version of the tournament feel particularly forced and out of place.

The manga simply expands on Hit's development in ways that are consistent with his character arc in the story, which is exactly how it should be done.

[TKA]

I feel like that's something this chapter kind of lacked in specifically. For Jiren's big introductory bad guy chapter, it really could have been handled better, at the very least in terms of panelling.

The manga isn't portraying Jiren as a bad guy though. He was presented as very heroic, almost cartoonishly heroic at that.

[Zen Yabuki]

I feel like that's something this chapter kind of lacked in specifically. For Jiren's big introductory bad guy chapter, it really could have been handled better, at the very least in terms of panelling.

The manga isn't portraying Jiren as a bad guy though. He was presented as very heroic, almost cartoonishly heroic at that.

Don't think he really means that literally. But more so as the "big bad", the main threat or force of opposition to U7.

[TKA]

Don't think he really means that literally. But more so as the "big bad", the main threat or force of opposition to U7.

Well yeah, I know what he means. But that's why Jiren in the manga works. He can't get some entrance akin to Black's, which was meant to be menacing. Instead, Jiren literally enters the manga by saving the day and the other Pride Troopers. This sets up the role he's playing for his team in the tournament, and his role in the story going forward.

[Exline]

As someone who has read Bleach (very minimalistic use of backgrounds) and One Piece (very cluttered panels), I cannot overstate how much backgrounds can break a panel.

The creator of Bleach once said he instructs his assistants not to draw in backgrounds in many panels because they detract from the characters by making a reader’s eyes dart around the panel instead of focusing on the character. In most cases, he’s absolutely right. Backgrounds exist to tell you where characters are, the scale and so on, but after a couple establishing panels, they really don’t need to be in every panel or even every page.

Accuse Bleach of whatever you want, but it’s pretty damn hard to deny that Tite Kubo is a fantastic artist. This Super manga, which is cluttered with text bubbles doesn’t also need backgrounds filling up most of the panels too.

Yeah, There doesn’t need to be backgrounds in every panel.

My problem with Toyotarō is his pages with so much dialogue. He breaks them into so many panels that are just facial shit to another facial shot. That doesn’t need to happen. Each speech bubble doesn’t need its own panel.

The dialogue is great don’t get me wrong, but the pages with just nothing but close ups on character’s faces is rather boring.

It’s why i suggested a panel where Goku and Hit discuss how to beat Jiren within 3 or so panels. One facial shot of Goku, one of Hit, then the next panel focuses on Jiren slowly walking towards them, displayed in a Very intimidating manner. A typical shot, but I’d find it more enjoyable than just going from face to face per sentence. I find that just as distracting as if it were to have multiple backgrounds.

Manga is a visual medium, so I think panelling that actually visually conveys idea's even in more mundane dialogue sequences is important in a manga, I would say even more so than the anime. I would say Toyo did a very competent job of this during his presentation of Black during the very early parts of the future Trunks arc, however, I feel like that's something this chapter kind of lacked in specifically. For Jiren's big introductory bad guy chapter, it really could have been handled better, at the very least in terms of panelling.

He most certainly did in the Black arc. Toyotaro does well with his style of interpreting dialogue exchanges sometimes. But lately I felt he hasn't. Ever since the ToP started in the manga, those same types of pages with dialogue exchanges have become less interesting.

In Chapter 32, here's an example of a page full of dialogue.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Now when I complain about Pages Full of Dialogue, I'm not exactly attacking just the dialogue, but the story boarding of these panels. They lack depth to them. It's Close-Up after Close-Up, with a couple Medium Close-Ups in between. They fail to make the page engaging, which I believe that these artists should strive for.

Toyotaro also could easily have shortened the amount of panels here. The more panels means the smaller the rest of the panels will become. Removing unneeded panels allows for much more room to expand the other panels. Smaller panels are not as appealing as the bigger panels; they provide us with larger and clearer facial expressions, as well as the artwork having more refined details and features.

I'm also not saying the problem is just the lack of backgrounds, because it isn't. It's mostly the structuring of these panels and the dialogue as well. I feel the Mangaka behind My Hero Academia does well with these scenes.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
He uses fewer panels with nearly the same amount of speech bubbles. He doesn't need to separate each sentence with a new panel. He can include multiple bubbles within one panel. Toyo may be worried that it may be harder to digest, but it really isn't if done well and if the dialogue itself is captivating enough to make us ignore whether or not there is anything in the background anyways.

Also he has the opportunity to make these characters much more expressive in terms of personality and emotion. The artist for MHA does well with informing us in this page how;
Kamui Woods is still upset over Mt. Lady for stealing his victory. And how Death Arms is a smoker, along with Mt. Lady not being a fan of it as she is shown trying to blow the smoke away with her hand.

And as long as if their is at least background art in some of the panels, than not all need much background. In the example I used for Toyotaro, he leaves 6/10 of his panels in that page with no background. It makes the page feel extremely empty. In the MHA example, the artist uses 6 panels and only 3/6 have no background at all.

Toyotaro could definitely do something similar to this page with the Dragon Ball Cast with their discussions. It doesn't have to be exactly like MHA's manner of conversations (where characters seem to express the most minor of annoyances), but at least be able to make scenes with dialogue engaging enough. He tends to use way too many panels for some reason. And more isn't always better.

[batistabus]

snip

I see where you're coming from, and I have always thought DBS might do better with fewer panels. Would you mind providing an example of how to pannel more effectively using Toriyama's DB?

[namekiansaiyan]

Don't think he really means that literally. But more so as the "big bad", the main threat or force of opposition to U7.

Well yeah, I know what he means. But that's why Jiren in the manga works. He can't get some entrance akin to Black's, which was meant to be menacing. Instead, Jiren literally enters the manga by saving the day and the other Pride Troopers. This sets up the role he's playing for his team in the tournament, and his role in the story going forward.

Jiren's role is too kick arse in the tournament and after is to just work with his Pride Troopers more.

We don't need to see Jiren when saving people or random stuff like that. It's pointless. We lnow what he does due ro Toppo already

Jiren's introduction in the anime is better than the manga to me as it made Goku shit himself and people could just feel his power and this demonstrated what he is like which is 'absolute strength' and someone that looks down on everyone.

[TKA]

Jiren's role is too kick arse in the tournament

No, it isn't. That has no narrative value. His role is to be an impenetrable wall Goku has to overcome. He makes his entrance in the manga by showing how overwhelmingly strong he is while saving his friends.

We don't need to see Jiren when saving people or random stuff like that.

"We don't need to see the main antagonist being a character"

Obviously I don't agree. His entrance into the manga:

1. Showed how integral he is to the Pride Troopers
2. Showed he cares for his friends/innocents
3. Showed how powerful he was.

Now, who does all of that also sound like? I won't let you guess; the answer is Goku. Jiren, in his role as a Pride Trooper, is similar to Goku's role as the hero of his team. Jiren is an unassailable wall who also works as a mirror to Goku.

It's pointless. We lnow what he does due ro Toppo already

You're arguing that we need "Tell, don't show," which is the opposite of conventional logic. Storytelling 101 is "Show, don't tell [but if you can't show, at least tell]". We saw Jiren being the hope of his universe with our own eyes and then we got to see him explain exactly why he's fighting. That gives him agency as a character while telling the viewer how he fits into the Pride Troopers and hints at what his role will be in the tournament.

Jiren's introduction in the anime is better than the manga to me as it made Goku shit himself and people could just feel his power and this demonstrated what he is like which is 'absolute strength' and someone that looks down on everyone.

"Jiren's introduction in the anime is better because he showed his power is maximum"

Broly did it better in a worse movie, bro.

[namekiansaiyan]

Jiren's role is too kick arse in the tournament

No, it isn't. That has no narrative value. His role is to be an impenetrable wall Goku has to overcome. He makes his entrance in the manga by showing how overwhelmingly strong he is while saving his friends.

We don't need to see Jiren when saving people or random stuff like that.

"We don't need to see the main antagonist being a character"

Obviously I don't agree. His entrance into the manga:

1. Showed how integral he is to the Pride Troopers
2. Showed he cares for his friends/innocents
3. Showed how powerful he was.

Now, who does all of that also sound like? I won't let you guess; the answer is Goku. Jiren, in his role as a Pride Trooper, is similar to Goku's role as the hero of his team. Jiren is an unassailable wall who also works as a mirror to Goku.

It's pointless. We lnow what he does due ro Toppo already

You're arguing that we need "Tell, don't show," which is the opposite of conventional logic. Storytelling 101 is "Show, don't tell [but if you can't show, at least tell]". We saw Jiren being the hope of his universe with our own eyes and then we got to see him explain exactly why he's fighting. That gives him agency as a character while telling the viewer how he fits into the Pride Troopers and hints at what his role will be in the tournament.

Jiren's introduction in the anime is better than the manga to me as it made Goku shit himself and people could just feel his power and this demonstrated what he is like which is 'absolute strength' and someone that looks down on everyone.

"Jiren's introduction in the anime is better because he showed his power is maximum"

Broly did it better in a worse movie, bro.

You seem to forget the part where he doesn't do teamwork or get along with others when talking about what you like.

After seeing Toppo we know what the Pride Troopers do and due to how strong Toppo compared to Goku we know Jiren is going to be a real challenge

Jiren didn't show his power in his introductuon but Goku could sense it and we got an idea of what kind of person Jire is by telling Goku to 'get lost' in the way he did. He looks done on everyone and is nit this typical hero. We didn't need anymore.

Jiren's character is him being a Pride Trooper and his backstory which is revealed later

You seem to like the manga more as you want Jiren to be an ultimate hero and be shown like it.

Also just because he is the most important member and strong doesn't mean he is like Goku.

[Marlowe89]

You seem to like the manga more as you want Jiren to be an ultimate hero and be shown like it.

Jiren is a hero. He's an important member of the Pride Troopers.

If the anime doesn't portray his personality or actions as heroic and even goes in an arguably villainous direction at times, what business does he have being on a team of superheroes at all? What compels him to join a role that is almost entirely antithetical to his character? Why is this confusing part of his backstory never once elaborated on in the anime?

The manga avoids these pitfalls by establishing his heroic traits right from the start while retaining that stoic, disciplined, tragic-background side of Jiren that we know came from Toriyama. He's far more comprehensible and layered as a result.

[Exline]

snip

I see where you're coming from, and I have always thought DBS might do better with fewer panels. Would you mind providing an example of how to pannel more effectively using Toriyama's DB?

[spoiler][/spoiler]
In this example, Toriyama uses 9 panels. The Toyotaro example in my last post was about 10 panels, not too far off. However I think Toriyama definitely does better with the large quantity of panels. The dialogue moves at a much faster pace. Toriyama informs the reader with more information, but fewer speech bubbles and sentences. It doesn't work most of the time, but if done right, it will. This page does a great job at establishing many things going on compared to this:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Toyotaro uses up most of his dialogue and panels in his example dwelling on the fact Goku lied and having Krillin explain why he is so upset. He didn't need to include remarks by Bulma and Vegeta in two separate panels either. He could have had Krillin explain it fewer sentences within less panels.

The dialogue could have been rearranged and displayed like this:
[spoiler]Panel 1
[Goku]: Oh! Kuririn! You're here!
[Krillin]: Goku..
[Krillin]: You lied to me..
Panel 2
[Goku]: What?
Panel 3
[Krillin]: You said you would give us 10 Million Zeni for winning!
[Goku]: Well that was... You Know..
Panel 4
[Bulma]: Kuririn and #18 say they won't participate anymore!
[Goku]: I-I can pay you!
[Goku]: I got ton's of cash from Hercule
[Vegeta]: Doesn't Chi-Chi have control over that money?
[Goku]: You're right..
[Krillin]: That's not what I mean!!
Panel 5
[Krillin]: To bribe me with money.. You're the worst, Goku!!
[Goku]: I'm sorry..
[Krillin]: You know what gets me off the most? You kept it a secret that our universe is gonna get destroyed if we lose..
[Goku]:..[/spoiler]
We've reduced this to five panels. If Toyotaro wanted, he could wrap up some of the following page into this one as well, concluding the whole argument between Goku and Krillin in fewer panels. Or he could story board these scenes better so they could tell more without tons of dialogue. Maybe Panel 4 in my example where multiple characters are talking at once could show us more of Bulma's house. Maybe Beerus is messing around with something in the background. It's an opportunity to add more to a scene without having to make a new panel for it.

Stretching the dialogue between several panels is a unnecessary practice on his part. Maybe he enjoys it, but I feel it just takes too much of his time for something incredibly minor. It's as if he thinks giving us more panels will make us enjoy the manga more. I don't think that really works unless those panels are actually engaging. Especially when it's the same few camera angles each panel. He tends to use varying versions of the Close-Up shot. Seeing the same face 5 or so times within one page already makes me sick of those characters.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
This may be a better example since in the Toyotaro Example, the characters don't really move from one place, they remain in the same setting. However, in this example, they do the same thing whilst explaining what and who the Ginyu Force are. 14 speech bubbles used within 7 panels on this page. The Toyotaro example uses 17 speech bubbles within 10 panels, and in my revision of his page, we used 5 panels with 16 speech bubbles.

In this example we learn many things:
-The cast realizes an incredible power is coming their way..
-Goku is arriving soon..
-There's more than one incredible power arriving as well
-Vegeta realizes it's the Ginyu Force.
-There are 5 members of the Ginyu Force as he counts.
-Vegeta begins to act frantic and must be scared of them.
-Vegeta believes their only chance of winning is making him immortal.

In Toyotaro's example we learn:
-Krillin discovers Goku lied to him.
-Krillin and 18 don't want to participate anymore.
-Goku's money is managed by Chi-Chi.
-Krillin is extremely upset because of all the secrets Goku was holding.

We've learned more from fewer panels and 3 less speech bubbles in Toriyama's example than in Toyotaro's. Toyotaro should learn to make his story boards explain more and not rely solely on the character's dialogue just for their explanation and rather their mannerisms. We see Krillin with his sad expression around 3 times. There's no need to see it more than twice at the least.

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

And for these two pages, Toriyama begins the first page with multiple panels, Close-Ups of Goku getting ready to enter Namek. The panels don't focus on his face only, but transition from him brushing his teeth, to washing his face, to finally putting on clothes . The second page is Goku fully clothed in a Full-Shot Panel, with 3 panels to follow afterwards. It makes the previous panel easier to digest compared to this example from Toyotaro:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It's just two pages of clustered panels. 9 panels on the first, 11 on the second. 20 panels to interpret on two pages. That number is way too large. I use to review what comic book illustrators are paid for. I remember reading they get paid by the page, not by the panel, so I don't know what he has to gain by drawing more panels. Their rather boring as well here because it's generic expression to the next generic expression and so on.

Toyotaro should improve his story boarding to make nearly every panel engaging for us to view. He also shouldn't have to make separate panels just for us to follow his sentences. He should either improve his lettering or hire a better letterer (people who write the dialogue and onomatopoeia such as Boom, Smash, etc.) to arrange the dialogue in a way that anyone can follow it without the panel feeling too disorganized because of it. Due to his poor sense of scaling, he may use them as an excuse to avoid drawing backgrounds. Doing this won't help him with that at all. Like I said, more isn't always better. Especially when it comes to panelling.

[TKA]

You seem to forget the part where he doesn't do teamwork or get along with others when talking about what you like.

Really? Where was this stated in the manga? As far as I'm aware, in the manga Jiren is just a Pride Trooper concerned with protecting all life in his universe.

After seeing Toppo we know what the Pride Troopers do and due to how strong Toppo compared to Goku we know Jiren is going to be a real challenge

Cool.

But what does that say about Jiren's character? It says nothing. The way he's introduced here is literally saving all the Pride Troopers, and then he proceeds to decline the invitation to fight because he doesn't want to damn other universe's to destruction, even if doing so will cost him his life. Boom, right there I know more about Jiren's character than I would otherwise.

He looks done on everyone and is nit this typical hero. We didn't need anymore.

No, that sets him up as an adversary, which I find a lot more boring. Here he's very much introduced as a hero, so in the tournament it will be "hero vs Goku" (which we've never seen before), rather than "adversary vs Goku" (which we've seen many times).

You seem to like the manga more as you want Jiren to be an ultimate hero and be shown like it.

I like the manga more because it's competent. I don't particularly want anything out of the story other than it keeping high fidelity to Toriyama's original manga, while telling a consistent and logical story. That's all I care about. I'm here for the ride; not to dictate how Toyotaro should write his story.

Also just because he is the most important member and strong doesn't mean he is like Goku.

In literature, friend, a dark mirror is someone who is in a similar role as the protagonist, but with some slight differences. Jiren is Goku's dark mirror by being the center of his team, being the most powerful, caring about his friends, etc. but with the key difference being Jiren is essentially omnipotent and selfless (willing to die before he'd fight anyone) while Goku is essentially just a man and selfish (he's in this to get stronger and face stronger opponents). I expect as the manga goes on there will be more stark differences revealed between the two stemming from this fact.

[ekrolo2]

You seem to like the manga more as you want Jiren to be an ultimate hero and be shown like it.

Jiren is a hero. He's an important member of the Pride Troopers.

If the anime doesn't portray his personality or actions as heroic and even goes in an arguably villainous direction at times, what business does he have being on a team of superheroes at all? What compels him to join a role that is almost entirely antithetical to his character? Why is this confusing part of his backstory never once elaborated on in the anime?

The manga avoids these pitfalls by establishing his heroic traits right from the start while retaining that stoic, disciplined, tragic-background side of Jiren that we know came from Toriyama. He's far more comprehensible and layered as a result.

You know, I hadn't thought of that but you're right: why IS anime Jiren part of the Pride Troopers?

[Exline]

You seem to like the manga more as you want Jiren to be an ultimate hero and be shown like it.

Jiren is a hero. He's an important member of the Pride Troopers.

If the anime doesn't portray his personality or actions as heroic and even goes in an arguably villainous direction at times, what business does he have being on a team of superheroes at all? What compels him to join a role that is almost entirely antithetical to his character? Why is this confusing part of his backstory never once elaborated on in the anime?

The manga avoids these pitfalls by establishing his heroic traits right from the start while retaining that stoic, disciplined, tragic-background side of Jiren that we know came from Toriyama. He's far more comprehensible and layered as a result.

You know, I hadn't thought of that but you're right: why IS anime Jiren part of the Pride Troopers?

I was going to respond to him, but Marlowe and TKA did a great job in doing so that I don't feel the need to anymore.

Hopefully he didn't get that from my post about unneccesary panels/choreography/storyboards.. haha

[batistabus]

snip

Nice work. Thanks for taking the time to type that whole thing up.

Toriyama has complimented Toyotaro on his storyboarding, composition, and "energetic artwork". I think his artwork is certainly energetic, but the overuse of paneling is likely a result of Toyotaro trying to hard to put as much into each chapter as possible. He has something to prove. Hopefully he gets to a point where he's comfortable enough in his role as a manga artist where he'll start taking Toriyama-esque "short cuts".

[namekiansaiyan]

Jiren doesn't need to be shown to be heroic if he is in the Pride Troopers. That is what they do so he must do it all time.

He is the strongest and I find it much more impressive that his first show of power is in the tournament and not just another random enemy from Universe 11. I seriously don't see the fascination with Jiren in that introduction scene.

In the Jiren vs Hit fight you see Jiren doesn't really like Hit's 'Assissins Pride' as he mocks it. Even though that line could be interpreted as Jiren just looking down on eeveryone anyway. This showed some 'hero' values. This line should have been in the manga.

In the anime Belmond said he was attracted to Jiren's solitude so from that Belmond must have introduced Jiren to the Pride Troopers as he probably thought it would be a good fit.

[TKA]

Hopefully he didn't get that from my post about unneccesary panels/choreography/storyboards.. haha

Your post is more useful than any of mine.

Jiren doesn't need to be shown to be heroic if he is in the Pride Troopers. That is what they do so he must do it all time.

Goku is a saiyan, yet doesn't destroy planets. Piccolo is a Namekian, yet isn't a peace-loving near-pacifist.

Jiren being a member of a group means absolutely nothing. Why are you so insistent that he needs to not be shown doing any of the things he's supposed to be doing? Why do you prefer to be told these things? How is being told them better than being shown them in an introductory chapter?

He is the strongest and I find it much more impressive that his first show of power is in the tournament

Who cares about power levels and who's penis numbers is bigger? Jiren showed up and stormed through a monster that cornered all of the Pride Troopers. The Pride Troopers got caught because they were talking among each other instead of getting the job done, and members like Dyspo couldn't beat the monster. Then Jiren came in and beat it in short order. What does that tell us? He's strong and he's serious.

Do you realize that every time I reply to you I tell you even more about what we learned about Jiren's character in just that introduction? There's a lot to gain from it, while all you've been telling me about Jiren in the anime is that his power is maximum.

Even though that line could be interpreted as Jiren just looking down on eeveryone anyway. This showed some 'hero' values

No. No it shouldn't have. It was made explicitly clear in the manga that Jiren doesn't tolerate evil, but also he doesn't waste time on foolishness. Talking down to Hit is out of character for Manga Jiren.

That's just a mindless "cool" moment. Those actively detract from the product as a whole and only serve to make a moment.

In the anime Belmond said he was attracted to Jiren's solitude so from that Belmond must have introduced Jiren to the Pride Troopers as he probably thought it would be a good fit.

No idea what you're talking about there, but if we're talking about Vermoud, he's not a character in the anime. In the anime he exists just to exposit. In the manga, he's a character and not just a living representation of Google.

[Exline]

snip

Nice work. Thanks for taking the time to type that whole thing up.

Toriyama has complimented Toyotaro on his storyboarding, composition, and "energetic artwork". I think his artwork is certainly energetic, but the overuse of paneling is likely a result of Toyotaro trying to hard to put as much into each chapter as possible. He has something to prove. Hopefully he gets to a point where he's comfortable enough in his role as a manga artist where he'll start taking Toriyama-esque "short cuts".

Thanks! It's honestly such a chore gathering those photos and uploading them. I don't think I'll do posts like that anymore.

And yeah before I was getting this vibe he was playing it too safe. BUT BOY AFTER WHAT HE DID TO KRILLIN AND TIEN, I started thinking that Toyotaro is definitely going in the right direction in terms of storytelling. Eliminating them to further Frost's trust in Frieza was such a brilliant idea on his part. And I understand why he might be feeling that way. He is set out to be Toriyama's successor, and that is honestly tough shoes to fill. Dragon Ball is a series that can't put out mediocre content. It's hard to constantly come up with more unique ideas. So many high expectations for a series with such a large fandom.

By the way what shortcuts are you talking about? Do you mean inksavers like SSJ hairstyle or breaking parts of the tournament arena so you don't have to keep drawing all the decoration?

[batistabus]

By the way what shortcuts are you talking about? Do you mean inksavers like SSJ hairstyle or breaking parts of the tournament arena so you don't have to keep drawing all the decoration?

A large part of Toriyama's brilliance comes in the simplicity of his stories, his character designs, and his layouts. I'd describe these qualities as elegance, but Toriyama gives us the impression that these things are at least partially born out of laziness. While it certainly takes a high degree of talent and good taste to make simple things so effective, they also have the effect of creating less work for Toriyama. He's constantly trimming the fat, so what you're left with is just the good stuff. Inksaving techniques are a good example of this; because he rarely shades, the contrast of black and white creates a boldness in his images. When actually does shade, it stands out more. Another examples is how the main characters wear very simple clothing. Compare Goku's dogi to the outfits of other manga protagonists. The lack of frills (per se) make drawing Goku quicker, but it also has the effect of being super recognizable and easy for children (or anyone) to draw.

Toriyama's perfect balance of artistic mastery and constantly seeking to create less work for himself is what makes Dragon Ball so unique. Toriyama takes this approach almost shamelessly at times, and I don't think Toyotaro is quite comfortable enough at the moment to fully embrace that.