"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:07 pm

I think it cannot be overstated that Toriyama was already a rich and famous, seasoned mangaka before he even started working on Dragonball. Comparatively, Toyotaro is still green.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:54 pm

I wouldn't cling too tightly to that image of who Jiren seemed to be in chapter 30. Expect him to reveal a very different face by the end.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:15 pm

TKA wrote:I think it cannot be overstated that Toriyama was already a rich and famous, seasoned mangaka before he even started working on Dragonball. Comparatively, Toyotaro is still green.
TKA wrote:As someone who has read Bleach (very minimalistic use of backgrounds) and One Piece (very cluttered panels), I cannot overstate how much backgrounds can break a panel.

The creator of Bleach once said he instructs his assistants not to draw in backgrounds in many panels because they detract from the characters by making a reader’s eyes dart around the panel instead of focusing on the character. In most cases, he’s absolutely right. Backgrounds exist to tell you where characters are, the scale and so on, but after a couple establishing panels, they really don’t need to be in every panel or even every page...
Huh, learn something everyday.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:36 pm

batistabus wrote:
Exline wrote:By the way what shortcuts are you talking about? Do you mean inksavers like SSJ hairstyle or breaking parts of the tournament arena so you don't have to keep drawing all the decoration?
A large part of Toriyama's brilliance comes in the simplicity of his stories, his character designs, and his layouts. I'd describe these qualities as elegance, but Toriyama gives us the impression that these things are at least partially born out of laziness. While it certainly takes a high degree of talent and good taste to make simple things so effective, they also have the effect of creating less work for Toriyama. He's constantly trimming the fat, so what you're left with is just the good stuff. Inksaving techniques are a good example of this; because he rarely shades, the contrast of black and white creates a boldness in his images. When actually does shade, it stands out more. Another examples is how the main characters wear very simple clothing. Compare Goku's dogi to the outfits of other manga protagonists. The lack of frills (per se) make drawing Goku quicker, but it also has the effect of being super recognizable and easy for children (or anyone) to draw.

Toriyama's perfect balance of artistic mastery and constantly seeking to create less work for himself is what makes Dragon Ball so unique. Toriyama takes this approach almost shamelessly at times, and I don't think Toyotaro is quite comfortable enough at the moment to fully embrace that.
Interesting.. I didn't see him as lazy until now. I revered Toriyama for these shortcuts within his manga as if he were a genius.

And I'm wondering if Toyotaro should even take that approach. It sounds as if Toriyama knew regardless of what he did, that the DB manga would still remain popular without a doubt. DB Super doesn't seem to be as flexible and the fan base doesn't seem to be too accepting anymore either. I think Toriyama deserves a slap on the wrist for it because of the demand for Dragon Ball during it's time was just incredibly huge. Toyotaro is not really in the same position. His chapters probably don't sell as much as Toriyama's (I assume) because the return of Dragon Ball took far too long and some of the hype around the series most likely died down. Probably because of the lack of content in terms of animation and manga chapters/spin-offs.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:58 pm

Exline wrote:Interesting.. I didn't see him as lazy until now. I revered Toriyama for these shortcuts within his manga as if he were a genius.

And I'm wondering if Toyotaro should even take that approach. It sounds as if Toriyama knew regardless of what he did, that the DB manga would still remain popular without a doubt. DB Super doesn't seem to be as flexible and the fan base doesn't seem to be too accepting anymore either. I think Toriyama deserves a slap on the wrist for it because of the demand for Dragon Ball during it's time was just incredibly huge. Toyotaro is not really in the same position. His chapters probably don't sell as much as Toriyama's (I assume) because the return of Dragon Ball took far too long and some of the hype around the series most likely died down. Probably because of the lack of content in terms of animation and manga chapters/spin-offs.
Don't get me wrong; the short cuts are still genius. Toriyama cares about putting out good work, but he's very transparent about his motivation levels in interviews and author comments. Even when he refined his style to be "rougher" in the Boo arc, his drawings were still oozing with charm.

I think Toyotaro's green nature is certainly excusable. Like TKA said, of course he is going to fall short of Toriyama. The most important thing for me is that his stories are interesting, exciting, funny, sensible, and still have that Toriyama flair. They certainly do as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:41 am

Simere wrote:I wouldn't cling too tightly to that image of who Jiren seemed to be in chapter 30. Expect him to reveal a very different face by the end.
There's certainly no need to cling to that; I don't doubt that we could potentially see a darker side to Jiren as the arc approaches its climax. The manga is clear about demonstrating that his character reflects his role as a hero at least on the surface, though, which was really my point.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by EGonzo » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:54 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
Simere wrote:I wouldn't cling too tightly to that image of who Jiren seemed to be in chapter 30. Expect him to reveal a very different face by the end.
There's certainly no need to cling to that; I don't doubt that we could potentially see a darker side to Jiren as the arc approaches its climax. The manga is clear about demonstrating that his character reflects his role as a hero at least on the surface, though, which was really my point.
You know, I actually never saw Jiren as a hero in the manga. He did say they had to save the people but he didn't look like he actually wanted to; to me he looks like he's going through the motions and nothing else. Which is actually good, him acting like a hero but not actually being one.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by majinwarman » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:05 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
Simere wrote:I wouldn't cling too tightly to that image of who Jiren seemed to be in chapter 30. Expect him to reveal a very different face by the end.
There's certainly no need to cling to that; I don't doubt that we could potentially see a darker side to Jiren as the arc approaches its climax. The manga is clear about demonstrating that his character reflects his role as a hero at least on the surface, though, which was really my point.
Which is I think is a good thing because it shows the different levels that Jiren has.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:08 pm

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

That's actually something I really like about the manga and for the next chapter I hope to see more character development for both Kale and Caulifla.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:26 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

That's actually something I really like about the manga and for the next chapter I hope to see more character development for both Kale and Caulifla.
I'm going to have to disagree with that last statement. Universe 6 should sit out a chapter. I'm experiencing a bit of overexposure to their characters.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:16 am

Exline wrote:
batistabus wrote:
Exline wrote:By the way what shortcuts are you talking about? Do you mean inksavers like SSJ hairstyle or breaking parts of the tournament arena so you don't have to keep drawing all the decoration?
A large part of Toriyama's brilliance comes in the simplicity of his stories, his character designs, and his layouts. I'd describe these qualities as elegance, but Toriyama gives us the impression that these things are at least partially born out of laziness. While it certainly takes a high degree of talent and good taste to make simple things so effective, they also have the effect of creating less work for Toriyama. He's constantly trimming the fat, so what you're left with is just the good stuff. Inksaving techniques are a good example of this; because he rarely shades, the contrast of black and white creates a boldness in his images. When actually does shade, it stands out more. Another examples is how the main characters wear very simple clothing. Compare Goku's dogi to the outfits of other manga protagonists. The lack of frills (per se) make drawing Goku quicker, but it also has the effect of being super recognizable and easy for children (or anyone) to draw.

Toriyama's perfect balance of artistic mastery and constantly seeking to create less work for himself is what makes Dragon Ball so unique. Toriyama takes this approach almost shamelessly at times, and I don't think Toyotaro is quite comfortable enough at the moment to fully embrace that.
Interesting.. I didn't see him as lazy until now. I revered Toriyama for these shortcuts within his manga as if he were a genius.

And I'm wondering if Toyotaro should even take that approach. It sounds as if Toriyama knew regardless of what he did, that the DB manga would still remain popular without a doubt. DB Super doesn't seem to be as flexible and the fan base doesn't seem to be too accepting anymore either. I think Toriyama deserves a slap on the wrist for it because of the demand for Dragon Ball during it's time was just incredibly huge. Toyotaro is not really in the same position. His chapters probably don't sell as much as Toriyama's (I assume) because the return of Dragon Ball took far too long and some of the hype around the series most likely died down. Probably because of the lack of content in terms of animation and manga chapters/spin-offs.
Honestly, I think his volumes don't sell as much because it's a V-Jump series. Most people see those as simple side stories or non important add ons.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:49 am

jeffbr92 wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

That's actually something I really like about the manga and for the next chapter I hope to see more character development for both Kale and Caulifla.
Despite the issues the manga may have, At least it takes its lore seariously and doesn't treat the fans like idiots who don't know any better.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:45 am

Dialogues in 135 are so bad. Also things are going so fast, maybe too fast?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:08 am

PsionicWarrior wrote:Dialogues in 135 are so bad. Also things are going so fast, maybe too fast?
Can you elaborate on why you thought it was bad?

I thought the dialogue in this chapter was the most enjoyable part of it. From Dyspo getting mad at Goku for holding back, for Hit conversing with Goku about how he's changed him, and with the final bit with Jiren finally acknowledging Goku. Do you prefer the typical "IMPOSSIBLE (BAKANA!!), I am the strongest" that the anime overuses in each fight?

I believe dialogue is one of Toyotaro's strong suits as a writer. He's able to make these characters more interesting and different in terms of personality as opposed to the anime making every single enemy in the tournament some cocky warriors.
Bergamo wrote:
jeffbr92 wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

That's actually something I really like about the manga and for the next chapter I hope to see more character development for both Kale and Caulifla.
I'm going to have to disagree with that last statement. Universe 6 should sit out a chapter. I'm experiencing a bit of overexposure to their characters.
Agreed. I wanted more U11 action this chapter and we actually got it! Hopefully we see more of the pride troopers next chapter. I still feel the next has to be a continuation of Goku and Jiren's fight. It would be weird to transition to a whole separate fight after trying to make Jiren look as formidable as he did in his fight against Hit.

Toyotaro needs to make use of some of the other universes besides for just fodder.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:10 pm

I guess I'm on this dude's ignore list then

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:55 pm

OLKv3 wrote:I guess I'm on this dude's ignore list then
Your last post is probably something we can all agree on, so maybe it just didn't warrant a meaningful response?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:44 pm

sintzu wrote:Despite the issues the manga may have, At least it takes its lore seariously and doesn't treat the fans like idiots who don't know any better.
Yeah, the Super anime caused many confusions. When Vegeta was charging up his FF against Jiren, they said his power was increasing due to his pride being incited? :lol: :eh: :thumbdown:
When throughout DB it is a known fact that when one concentrates their Ki for a final attack, it increases power level.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:53 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:I guess I'm on this dude's ignore list then
Your last post is probably something we can all agree on, so maybe it just didn't warrant a meaningful response?
What!? No you're not. I didn't even know that was a thing.. (if it is).

I didn't respond because at the time that I read it, I didn't think I needed to make a post saying "Oh so it's the V-Jumps then? Interesting..". I would've responded if I disagreed with it, but I didn't. I do this with several other users and I thought they were doing the same with me. I would respond if this were a Discord Chat, where I won't be penalized for unnecessary posts like that.

I didn't respond to batistabus' last post he mentioned me in, but that didn't mean I was ignoring him. I got everything I needed to know from his post. All I would have left to say is "Thanks for the info" and that would be it. I didn't have anymore questions I wanted to ask cause he explained it pretty well, like you did.

Hope no one else feels that way about me not replying. ;o
Miracles wrote:
sintzu wrote:Despite the issues the manga may have, At least it takes its lore seariously and doesn't treat the fans like idiots who don't know any better.
Yeah, the Super anime caused many confusions. When Vegeta was charging up his FF against Jiren, they said his power was increasing due to his pride being incited? :lol: :eh: :thumbdown:
When throughout DB it is a known fact that when one concentrates their Ki for a final attack, it increases power level.
This is the part of DB I don't quite understand. How do rage boosts work? How does anger itself increase your power level? I always thought Anger was an emotion that would block your Ki.]

Do rage boosts unlock a hidden power within the user or something?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:09 pm

Exline wrote:This is the part of DB I don't quite understand. How do rage boosts work? How does anger itself increase your power level? I always thought Anger was an emotion that would block your Ki.]

Do rage boosts unlock a hidden power within the user or something?
As far as I've always understood it (according to the original manga, unless I'm missing something), rage boosts are a trait of Saiyans that are even more intense in half-Saiyan hybrids (or at the very least, Gohan).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:34 pm

batistabus wrote:
Exline wrote:This is the part of DB I don't quite understand. How do rage boosts work? How does anger itself increase your power level? I always thought Anger was an emotion that would block your Ki.]

Do rage boosts unlock a hidden power within the user or something?
As far as I've always understood it (according to the original manga, unless I'm missing something), rage boosts are a trait of Saiyans that are even more intense in half-Saiyan hybrids (or at the very least, Gohan).
In the original manga, only Gohan (and Goku the one time when he unlocked Super Saiyan) benefited from rage boosts, and it was explained as his hidden power that he couldn't properly control unless triggered by instinct. Nobody else gained anything from them. They'd get mad, but still promptly lose and gain no noticeable change
The anime and later DBS took that and gave it to everyone as the usual high adrenaline trope in most fiction

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