"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[alakazam^]

It's not wrong however. It's exactly as he described - from the participants in the ring, Goku firmed a huge Genkidama that everyone believed would defeat Jiren.

I know how it went.

What I said was that his criticism was wrong since he called everything "remarkably stupid" and none of what he described actually was. I'm not surprised since he didn't even watched it so how would he even know what he was talking about?

Anyway, Caflo probably is a Toyotarou idea since he seems to like fusion a lot so that fight might be in. I'd be inclined to think Agnlaasa is as well.

[Saiga]

You can't really call someone wrong for having an opinion. The scene is remarkably stupid, for the basic reasons TKA mentioned and a few he didn't - mainly, the scene is there because of the Super anime's habit of trying to recapture prior moments of glory, which are never as good as the first time around. The anime fight between Jiren and Goku is too similar to Goku vs Freeza to have its own stand out moments - it even copied the Kaio-ken reveal wholecloth from that fight and tried to make it a big deal.

[Exline]

It's not wrong however. It's exactly as he described - from the participants in the ring, Goku firmed a huge Genkidama that everyone believed would defeat Jiren.

I know how it went.

What I said was that his criticism was wrong since he called everything "remarkably stupid" and none of what he described actually was. I'm not surprised since he didn't even watched it so how would he even know what he was talking about?

Anyway, Caflo probably is a Toyotarou idea since he seems to like fusion a lot so that fight might be in. I'd be inclined to think Agnlaasa is as well.

Why do you come after any one who insults the anime in some way? This is the same shit you attacked me for a while back when I criticized it's repetitive dialogue.

[CriticalThinker]

Some appeals of the ToP outside of fan service:

-A hectic battle situation, the likes that nobody has ever seen before
-mysterious new fighters from different universes with strange abilities and formidable strength
-further development of the power of gods (seen through Goku, Vegeta, and Toppo)
-further expansion of the godly realm and beyond
-what has Universe 6 been up to?

So far, I think the manga has done a much better job handling each of those categories. Of course, having seen the anime, we already know the answers to these questions for the most part. I can understand not finding the same excitement in a second telling.

I agree with your first point that manga did do the hectic battle situation better than the anime but I don't agree with your other four points especially the second one. I can't recall a single instance were a new fighter in this version of the tournament has shown off any strange or unique ability while fighting. It's because of this that most of the new fighters feel even more generic and boring to me, which is why I've been so disinterested in a lot of the fights so far. Also as of right now in the tournament the only ones who have shown to have formidable strength is Jiren and Toppo, everyone else has been fodder.

[Bergamo]

Some appeals of the ToP outside of fan service:

-A hectic battle situation, the likes that nobody has ever seen before
-mysterious new fighters from different universes with strange abilities and formidable strength
-further development of the power of gods (seen through Goku, Vegeta, and Toppo)
-further expansion of the godly realm and beyond
-what has Universe 6 been up to?

So far, I think the manga has done a much better job handling each of those categories. Of course, having seen the anime, we already know the answers to these questions for the most part. I can understand not finding the same excitement in a second telling.

I agree with your first point that manga did do the hectic battle situation better than the anime but I don't agree with your other four points especially the second one. I can't recall a single instance were a new fighter in this version of the tournament has shown off any strange or unique ability while fighting. It's because of this that most of the new fighters feel even more generic and boring to me, which is why I've been so disinterested in a lot of the fights so far. Also as of right now in the tournament the only ones who have shown to have formidable strength is Jiren and Toppo, everyone else has been fodder.

The fighters with unique abilities were
1. Botamo
2. The invisible fighters
3. Ribrianne
4. Dyspo

[jeffbr92]

They ARE homages. The traced Captain America image doesn't change the fact that his previous homages were clearly not traced from the original image.

Still doesn't change the fact that Toyotaro homages are bad and overused.

[Exline]

Some appeals of the ToP outside of fan service:

-A hectic battle situation, the likes that nobody has ever seen before
-mysterious new fighters from different universes with strange abilities and formidable strength
-further development of the power of gods (seen through Goku, Vegeta, and Toppo)
-further expansion of the godly realm and beyond
-what has Universe 6 been up to?

So far, I think the manga has done a much better job handling each of those categories. Of course, having seen the anime, we already know the answers to these questions for the most part. I can understand not finding the same excitement in a second telling.

I agree with your first point that manga did do the hectic battle situation better than the anime but I don't agree with your other four points especially the second one. I can't recall a single instance were a new fighter in this version of the tournament has shown off any strange or unique ability while fighting. It's because of this that most of the new fighters feel even more generic and boring to me, which is why I've been so disinterested in a lot of the fights so far. Also as of right now in the tournament the only ones who have shown to have formidable strength is Jiren and Toppo, everyone else has been fodder.

The fighters with unique abilities were
1. Botamo
2. The invisible fighters
3. Ribrianne
4. Dyspo

Don't you understand how boring it is for only 4 characters of out 80 brand new characters are the only ones with new abilities? Half of the new characters have already been eliminated and nearly all of them have achieved little to nothing that is memorable at all barring Hit and Frost.

I commend the anime's creativity and will to make nearly each fighter engaging in some way. I've refrained a while from using harsh language in this forum, but this manga is really fucking disappointing me after how much I'd become so invested in it since the beginning of this arc. This all feels like a slap in the face after what we got with Beerus vs. Vegeta / Goku vs. Toppo / The GoD Zen Exhibition Match, all interesting fights within the manga. Toyotaro seems to be unable or downright refuses to make anything as engaging or impressive as those three fights. Each fight so far has either been a side swipe, a generic ki blast, or a simple punch and kick, which is honestly fucking boring compared to the massive power ceiling Dragon Ball has established. Where are my martial arts techniques? Where are my hidden and unique techniques? Where the hell is the tension and emotion in this arc..?

The reason why I'm acting like this is because I realized I become excited when I read the current leaks, only to be disappointed by the actual chapter, when for others its usually the other way around. I don't like this feeling and I don't want to feel this way, but at the end of day I feel like this is just another crappy Toei episode after another. At least the anime had great episodes back to back for a while. However, the manga so far hasn't done anything incredible at all throughout this tournament. I'm getting the impression Toyotaro doesn't even care about this arc and just wants to breeze through it, which is just immature as hell. He clearly did this with the GoD Saga and completely ignored the RoF Saga. He should be willing to expand on these sagas and make them greater compared to the movie's portrayal of them. This man clearly lacks patience. Funny because he has a mediocre sense of pacing, both in chapters and in storytelling.

I've been contempt with problems in other chapters, but this chapter made me upset with how poorly this arc is being handled.

[prince212]

The reason why I'm acting like this is because I realized I become excited when I read the current leaks, only to be disappointed by the actual chapter, when for others its usually the other way around. I don't like this feeling and I don't want to feel this way, but at the end of day I feel like this is just another crappy Toei episode after another. At least the anime had great episodes back to back for a while. However, the manga so far hasn't done anything incredible at all throughout this tournament. I'm getting the impression Toyotaro doesn't even care about this arc and just wants to breeze through it, which is just immature as hell.

Sorry for your feelings , take a break then , do like toyotaro, don’t care and breeze.
Clearly is not worthed, if you can’t I hope next one satisfies you , but a break is not bad in your case looks like , sometimes is good to read 3 chapters at the same time ... it’s just a cartoon men.

[CriticalThinker]

The fighters with unique abilities were
1. Botamo
2. The invisible fighters
3. Ribrianne
4. Dyspo

I didn't think of Botamo when I wrote my original comment as I was talking about the new fighters introduced this arc, apologies if I didn't make that clear. I'll give you the invisible fighter but I don't really agree with Ribrianne or Dyspo. Ribrianne ability wise is pretty generic in this version and Dyspo being really fast at least to me doesn't make him that unique.

[batistabus]

I commend the anime's creativity and will to make nearly each fighter engaging in some way.

This is exactly my problem. They have these characters doing more things on screen, but the content is not engaging. It just ends up padding the tournament to the point where it's a slog to get through. Not everybody needs to be special.

I agree with your first point that manga did do the hectic battle situation better than the anime but I don't agree with your other four points especially the second one. I can't recall a single instance were a new fighter in this version of the tournament has shown off any strange or unique ability while fighting. It's because of this that most of the new fighters feel even more generic and boring to me, which is why I've been so disinterested in a lot of the fights so far. Also as of right now in the tournament the only ones who have shown to have formidable strength is Jiren and Toppo, everyone else has been fodder.

I don't mind the abilities that were given to the fighters in the anime, but I do mind how much that focus dragged out the tournament. If you're referencing how the Trio de Dangers don't have the same abilities in the anime, I'll point to the emphasis on their synergy. So far, nobody else in the tournament, especially not from Universe 7, has shown to be capable of such seamless teamwork. It's not a flashy gimmick, but it shouldn't be discounted. Other than that, we have the invisible fighters, the stretchy arm girls of Universe 2, Ribrianne's beauty-based power, and Hit's Time-Lag so far. Don't forget that so far we've only had 4 chapters of the Tournament of Power; only 15 minutes have passed in-universe, and 37 out of 80 fighters still remain in the ring in this version.

What I said was that his criticism was wrong since he called everything "remarkably stupid" and none of what he described actually was. I'm not surprised since he didn't even watched it so how would he even know what he was talking about?

Anyway, Caflo probably is a Toyotarou idea since he seems to like fusion a lot so that fight might be in. I'd be inclined to think Agnlaasa is as well.

I don't think TKA deserves criticism for dropping the anime once he realized he didn't enjoy it. He decided it wasn't for him, but also didn't decide to go into the anime thread week-after-week to criticize the thing. Several users here could learn from that. The fact that he was able to guess how things played out for that scene only further supports the trend that he's pointing out.

I think that Kafla and Agnlaasa were Toei's ideas. So far, Toyotaro is only credited with creating some Gods of Destruction, while Toei has taken credit for designing the majority of fighters from other universes. Why do you think Toyotaro has an affinity for fusion? Is it because he included Vegetto in the manga? He stated that he did so as to not disappoint fans, presumably because Vegetto had already appeared in the anime.

[Miracles]

They ARE homages. The traced Captain America image doesn't change the fact that his previous homages were clearly not traced from the original image.

Still doesn't change the fact that Toyotaro homages are bad and overused.

And TOEI's aren't?

I chewed glass when all they could do for Vegeta's big moments was give him Cell and Majin Buu callbacks...Lame.

[prince212]

. Why do you think Toyotaro has an affinity for fusion? Is it because he included Vegetto in the manga? He stated that he did so as to not disappoint fans, presumably because Vegetto had already appeared in the anime.

That has sense ... for some reason I interpreted that toyo came with the idea of veggeto in the whole cake ( meaning the anime ) , but .. he drew that way after the anime aired so ... yes .
Here’s the statement :

Zamasu1 actually wasn’t all that strong of a character in the original draft I received from Toriyama-sensei. Though immortal, his strength was such that two Super Saiyan Blues were more than enough to take him on. It’s precisely because of this that in the original draft things unfolded so that his “immortality” and “Potara time limit” became key, and Goku and Vegeta took turns fighting him. Goku and Vegeta didn’t fuse in the original draft. Their personalities made any fusion after the Majin Boo arc impossible. However, I wanted to meet the readers’ expectations… And so, I made a scenario where “even if they shouldn’t really fuse, now they have absolutely no choice but to fuse”.

[Bergamo]

I agree with your first point that manga did do the hectic battle situation better than the anime but I don't agree with your other four points especially the second one. I can't recall a single instance were a new fighter in this version of the tournament has shown off any strange or unique ability while fighting. It's because of this that most of the new fighters feel even more generic and boring to me, which is why I've been so disinterested in a lot of the fights so far. Also as of right now in the tournament the only ones who have shown to have formidable strength is Jiren and Toppo, everyone else has been fodder.

The fighters with unique abilities were
1. Botamo
2. The invisible fighters
3. Ribrianne
4. Dyspo

Don't you understand how boring it is for only 4 characters of out 80 brand new characters are the only ones with new abilities? Half of the new characters have already been eliminated and nearly all of them have achieved little to nothing that is memorable at all barring Hit and Frost.

I commend the anime's creativity and will to make nearly each fighter engaging in some way. I've refrained a while from using harsh language in this forum, but this manga is really fucking disappointing me after how much I'd become so invested in it since the beginning of this arc. This all feels like a slap in the face after what we got with Beerus vs. Vegeta / Goku vs. Toppo / The GoD Zen Exhibition Match, all interesting fights within the manga. Toyotaro seems to be unable or downright refuses to make anything as engaging or impressive as those three fights. Each fight so far has either been a side swipe, a generic ki blast, or a simple punch and kick, which is honestly fucking boring compared to the massive power ceiling Dragon Ball has established. Where are my martial arts techniques? Where are my hidden and unique techniques? Where the hell is the tension and emotion in this arc..?

The reason why I'm acting like this is because I realized I become excited when I read the current leaks, only to be disappointed by the actual chapter, when for others its usually the other way around. I don't like this feeling and I don't want to feel this way, but at the end of day I feel like this is just another crappy Toei episode after another. At least the anime had great episodes back to back for a while. However, the manga so far hasn't done anything incredible at all throughout this tournament. I'm getting the impression Toyotaro doesn't even care about this arc and just wants to breeze through it, which is just immature as hell. He clearly did this with the GoD Saga and completely ignored the RoF Saga. He should be willing to expand on these sagas and make them greater compared to the movie's portrayal of them. This man clearly lacks patience. Funny because he has a mediocre sense of pacing, both in chapters and in storytelling.

I've been contempt with problems in other chapters, but this chapter made me upset with how poorly this arc is being handled.

I can't agree with the sentiment that there were no interesting fights in the manga TOP. Gohan vs the Trio De Dangers has excellent choreography, and the entirety of Chapter 35 felt really tense. I thought that Ribrianne vs 18 worked really well as a gag fight and was a nice way to include Krillin without having him fight. Toyotaro can't give a fight to every character, because then the tournament would never end. Goku and Hit vs Jiren took up an entire chapter, and there was only one elimination that chapter. It's a bit more complicated than Toyo not putting in any fights because he's bored of the arc.

[Exline]

I commend the anime's creativity and will to make nearly each fighter engaging in some way.

This is exactly my problem. They have these characters doing more things on screen, but the content is not engaging. It just ends up padding the tournament to the point where it's a slog to get through. Not everybody needs to be special.

Since we've been getting mediocre content from Toei, I can appreciate the entertainment behind this "padding." Most of the time it works, but sometimes it doesn't. Pacing appears to be an issue in both mediums, one being too slow and the other being too fast. At least I can decide which kept me entertained and invested and which is not.

And man I've said this numerous times.. I'm not trying to imply every character introduced needs their own spotlight episode. I'm trying to explain how Toei utilized the new characters made for this arc in a more entertaining way compared to Toyotaro. They took advantage and made all these unique techniques for these characters. Caway with her ability to manifest weapons, Shantza and Darkori with their illusions, Ribrianne and her gigantification, the Trio De Dangers and their Triangle Beam?

They've done things with these characters that make us invested in them and I think that's Toei's strength in their interpretation of this arc. It left us wanting to know more about their universes, which we in fact got thanks to them. Toyotaro hasn't really delve much into a little bit of world building for the other Universes. He hasn't given me a reason to care about U4 getting like 6 eliminations in the current chapter. It's because I barely got to see enough of Gamisaras and Damon compared to the anime which gave us a much more entertaining episode by exploiting the abilities of the U4 Fighters. (Basically Episode 119 > Chapter 36). As awkward as the episode felt, I've realized it did pretty great in demonstrating the abilities of each fighter.

Toyotaro seems to be not as great in character utilization in this tournament. He did really well with the Zen Exhibition Match, but not so much with the actual Tournament, which is what confuses me. I had high expectations for him to do better with this arc and he ended up shattering most of them, much like Toei did; but to a lesser extent.

[CriticalThinker]

I don't mind the abilities that were given to the fighters in the anime, but I do mind how much that focus dragged out the tournament. If you're referencing how the Trio de Dangers don't have the same abilities in the anime, I'll point to the emphasis on their synergy. So far, nobody else in the tournament, especially not from Universe 7, has shown to be capable of such seamless teamwork. It's not a flashy gimmick, but it shouldn't be discounted. Other than that, we have the invisible fighters, the stretchy arm girls of Universe 2, Ribrianne's beauty-based power, and Hit's Time-Lag so far. Don't forget that so far we've only had 4 chapters of the Tournament of Power; only 15 minutes have passed in-universe, and 37 out of 80 fighters still remain in the ring in this version.

I certainly didn't want the manga to do what the anime did even though the focus in retrospect doesn't bother me that much, it's just I wish there was more variety to these fights. And while I do appreciate the trio having synergy I wish they had something more than just that. Like Bergamo I'll give you the invisible fighter and Ribrianne friends as I had forgot about that so that's my bad, but I don't think Ribrianne was all that unique in this version, I think I just prefer the love based one more. Also the reason I didn't mention Hit or Botamo was because I was only talking about new characters introduced this arc. Despite all my complaining I am hopeful that things will start to pick up in the second half of the tournament. Also sorry if my reply doesn't make much sense as I'm not always the best with explaining my thoughts.

[Exline]

I don't mind the abilities that were given to the fighters in the anime, but I do mind how much that focus dragged out the tournament. If you're referencing how the Trio de Dangers don't have the same abilities in the anime, I'll point to the emphasis on their synergy. So far, nobody else in the tournament, especially not from Universe 7, has shown to be capable of such seamless teamwork. It's not a flashy gimmick, but it shouldn't be discounted. Other than that, we have the invisible fighters, the stretchy arm girls of Universe 2, Ribrianne's beauty-based power, and Hit's Time-Lag so far. Don't forget that so far we've only had 4 chapters of the Tournament of Power; only 15 minutes have passed in-universe, and 37 out of 80 fighters still remain in the ring in this version.

I certainly didn't want the manga to do what the anime did even though the focus in retrospect doesn't bother me that much, it's just I wish there was more variety to these fights. And while I do appreciate the trio having synergy I wish they had something more than just that. Like Bergamo I'll give you the invisible fighter and Ribrianne friends as I had forgot about that so that's my bad, but I don't think Ribrianne was all that unique in this version, I think I just prefer the love based one more. Also the reason I didn't mention Hit or Botamo was because I was only talking about new characters introduced this arc. Despite all my complaining I am hopeful that things will start to pick up in the second half of the tournament. Also sorry if my reply doesn't make much sense as I'm not always the best with explaining my thoughts.

Agreed about Ribrianne. Her love schtick is what I liked about her. Toei did indeed overuse that aspect about her character, but it didn't bother me too much to the point where I downright hated her.

And batistabus, they had synergy as well in the anime did they not? Their attacks were coordinated and they fought well together against Goku to the point where Vegeta had to step in.

[batistabus]

Also the reason I didn't mention Hit or Botamo was because I was only talking about new characters introduced this arc. Despite all my complaining I am hopeful that things will start to pick up in the second half of the tournament. Also sorry if my reply doesn't make much sense as I'm not always the best with explaining my thoughts.

The only reason I mentioned Hit was because he demonstrated a new ability. I think you explained yourself just fine! No need to apologize, I'm happy to have you chime in for the discussion.

Toei did indeed overuse that aspect about her character, but it didn't bother me too much to the point where I downright hated her.

And batistabus, they had synergy as well in the anime did they not? Their attacks were coordinated and they fought well together against Goku to the point where Vegeta had to step in.

It did bother me to that point. Like most things I liked about the anime's telling, the things I enjoyed most about her were the bits of good animation she got (in episode 109, specifically), which has nothing to do with the storytelling. If you really enjoyed the version of her we got in the anime, I don't mean to diminish that, but I feel that her elements were very over-saturated in that version.

Yes, they did have synergy in the anime. My point was that the characters did have a gimmick in Toyotaro's version, even if they didn't have the same individual abilities they had in the anime.

[CriticalThinker]

Agreed about Ribrianne. Her love schtick is what I liked about her. Toei did indeed overuse that aspect about her character, but it didn't bother me too much to the point where I downright hated her.

I found her to be pretty enjoyable throughout the tournament and her love routine never bothered me. Also I am fan of her heart shaped attacks, she to me at least was one of the more unique characters introduced this arc. But I can see why people didn't like her that much in the anime and might prefer the manga version. Going off topic for a second, just want to apologize for not replying to your other comments. I've read them it's just I have a bad tendency of not replying back sometimes.

[Bergamo]

I don't get why people said that Chapter 36 had mediocre art. I get there are a few awkward panels, but the way that 17 and Ribrianne were drawn really stood out to me in this chapter. If the chapter's art was 90% good, doesn't that mean it had good art? Why do people have to focus on that panel of 17 and Damon?

[prince212]

I don't get why people said that Chapter 36 had mediocre art. I get there are a few awkward panels, but the way that 17 and Ribrianne were drawn really stood out to me in this chapter. If the chapter's art was 90% good, doesn't that mean it had good art? Why do people have to focus on that panel of 17 and Damon?

Yeap that panel is weird, but I’m with you , the rest was nice to me , Ribrianne first appearance in the chapter big panel , 18 elimination kick pose ... art was good , and story too , beauty u4 in 15 pages with nice gags , in 15 pages he made it to feel something towards Ribrianne and his girls combined with humor .
Only Jiren retreat was too force or just make me think that he’s not that anime beast
Some people focus on bads , some in goods , I guess