"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:26 pm

Cursemark505 wrote:Some of the responses here are interesting.

Image

-In the anime Kale took a kamehameha from ssjb Goku when he was holding back and hits him and the backlash was astronomical. People went on rants, threatened to drop the series, complained about powerscaling, writing etc.

-Manga Kale wrecks Full powered Golden Freeza & was about to wreck Mssjb Goku and most people are fine with it and some even go as far as to praise it.

The bias towards the manga has been clear for a long time now, but now it's 100% solidified.
Weren't a lot of the people complaining about Kale anime fans? Also, execution matters.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:31 pm

I wish to remind peole that in the anime, JIREN moved by himself to stop Berserk Kale.

That's enough to understand how strong she was.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:49 pm

Doctor. wrote:
TKA wrote:I think we need a more robust spoiler policy here, to be quite honest.
What would you suggest?

The mods used to close the thread until the chapter officially released. Not sure if that slipped their mind or they've given up on the idea.
This thread never seems to be able to prevent itself from spiraling after leaks (and occasionally during the interim). Assumptions are often made about the content based on images without the proper context of a fully translated chapter, and more often than not this triggers unnecessary gut reactions that spawn toxic arguments rather than civilized discourse.

It wasn't too bad this time, but I'm nipping it in the bud. We will be returning to that closure policy for now and discussing whether or not there is a better, alternative solution moving forward.

The chapter officially releases on the 21st in print in Japan, and digitally internationally. The thread will be reopened for discussion then.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:14 am

The chapter is now available to read on the Viz website and the thread is open again.

Before posting, please remember that all the community guidelines still apply.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:35 am

Caulifla is so much nicer in this story. Pure like Goku. She's cocky, but as soon as Freeza compliments her, she smiles and compliments him right back :lol:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:43 am

This was probably my favourite chapter of the tournament so far. I feel like Toyotaro puts out better work when he's focusing on one fight per chapter. Freeza fighting all of the Universe 6 Saiyans is something that should've happened in the anime, but all we got to see was him knocking out Cabba.

I like how Toyotaro was using Damon during the chapter so that Freeza would mistake his attacks for Kale's, even though she hadn't done anything yet. It's a good way of showing Damon's presence in the tournament rather than showing him attacking in one episode and then having him eliminated in that same episode.

Freeza knocking Goku out of the way so that he could fight Kale was a great little moment. The argument that followed that was funny.

Good chapter. Much better than what we've been getting for the past few months. Still no Ultra Instinct in sight. I'm really curious on how Toyotaro will approach that transformation.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:51 am

Frieza torturing Saiyans will always be great to see. :twisted:

I hope he continues next chapter before Kefla comes along.

I still find Caulifla the superior Universe 6 Saiyan.

I want to see more of Toppo fighting Vegeta.

Roshi will probably have his fights against the Pride Troopers.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 am

Great chapter. Curious where the heck they're going with Kale though. I feel like she should have been weaker than Frieza at least before gaining the Broly-esque muscle mass. Making me wonder how it's gonna go next chapter since I doubt Goku or Frieza can take on Kale now.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragono » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:14 am

IndieBooToo wrote:
Dragono wrote:
shadowfox87 wrote:
You saw RoF SSB Goku vs Golden Freeza. Golden Freeza is stronger than he was in RoF. He got beaten by BSSJ Kale. This means by logic that BSSJ is already greater than a RoF SSB Goku. Yes, we don't know about ToP SSB Goku, but Goku and Freeza beat each other up just before the ToP started in the manga just like the anime. So a Saiyan without any god ki, the BSSJ transformation would be a greater multiplier than SSG itself. That's what this is saying.
That fight never happened in the manga, Blue was revealed in heroes. Freeza was about to go golden but we never saw it.


The way Toyotaro treats villains in this manga is evidence to say Freeza wasn't as strong as Goku was when they did fight.
Except you have no proof for that last sentence.
What? Hit was weaker in the manga, zamasu was weaker in the manga, goku black was weaker in the manga, merged zamasu was weaker in the manga, the trio de danger were weaker in the manga, what makes you think Freeza is an exception to this rule?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MyNiggaGoku » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:43 am

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:This was probably my favourite chapter of the tournament so far. I feel like Toyotaro puts out better work when he's focusing on one fight per chapter. Freeza fighting all of the Universe 6 Saiyans is something that should've happened in the anime, but all we got to see was him knocking out Cabba.

I like how Toyotaro was using Damon during the chapter so that Freeza would mistake his attacks for Kale's, even though she hadn't done anything yet. It's a good way of showing Damon's presence in the tournament rather than showing him attacking in one episode and then having him eliminated in that same episode.

Freeza knocking Goku out of the way so that he could fight Kale was a great little moment. The argument that followed that was funny.

Good chapter. Much better than what we've been getting for the past few months. Still no Ultra Instinct in sight. I'm really curious on how Toyotaro will approach that transformation.
Ehm Damon has already been eliminated in Chapter 36. It's pretty obvious that Kale was sneakily attacking Freeza.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:06 am

MyNiggaGoku wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:This was probably my favourite chapter of the tournament so far. I feel like Toyotaro puts out better work when he's focusing on one fight per chapter. Freeza fighting all of the Universe 6 Saiyans is something that should've happened in the anime, but all we got to see was him knocking out Cabba.

I like how Toyotaro was using Damon during the chapter so that Freeza would mistake his attacks for Kale's, even though she hadn't done anything yet. It's a good way of showing Damon's presence in the tournament rather than showing him attacking in one episode and then having him eliminated in that same episode.

Freeza knocking Goku out of the way so that he could fight Kale was a great little moment. The argument that followed that was funny.

Good chapter. Much better than what we've been getting for the past few months. Still no Ultra Instinct in sight. I'm really curious on how Toyotaro will approach that transformation.
Ehm Damon has already been eliminated in Chapter 36. It's pretty obvious that Kale was sneakily attacking Freeza.
Oh shit, he was too. I completely forgot about that and just thought those sneaky attacks on Freeza were from him and not Kale. Was the invisible person taken care of? Maybe he was pulling those sneaky attacks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MyNiggaGoku » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:12 am

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:
MyNiggaGoku wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:This was probably my favourite chapter of the tournament so far. I feel like Toyotaro puts out better work when he's focusing on one fight per chapter. Freeza fighting all of the Universe 6 Saiyans is something that should've happened in the anime, but all we got to see was him knocking out Cabba.

I like how Toyotaro was using Damon during the chapter so that Freeza would mistake his attacks for Kale's, even though she hadn't done anything yet. It's a good way of showing Damon's presence in the tournament rather than showing him attacking in one episode and then having him eliminated in that same episode.

Freeza knocking Goku out of the way so that he could fight Kale was a great little moment. The argument that followed that was funny.

Good chapter. Much better than what we've been getting for the past few months. Still no Ultra Instinct in sight. I'm really curious on how Toyotaro will approach that transformation.
Ehm Damon has already been eliminated in Chapter 36. It's pretty obvious that Kale was sneakily attacking Freeza.
Oh shit, he was too. I completely forgot about that and just thought those sneaky attacks on Freeza were from him and not Kale. Was the invisible person taken care of? Maybe he was pulling those sneaky attacks.
Both Damon and Gamisaras the invisible have been eliminated by 17 and Piccolo respectively.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:15 am

MyNiggaGoku wrote:
Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:
MyNiggaGoku wrote:
Ehm Damon has already been eliminated in Chapter 36. It's pretty obvious that Kale was sneakily attacking Freeza.
Oh shit, he was too. I completely forgot about that and just thought those sneaky attacks on Freeza were from him and not Kale. Was the invisible person taken care of? Maybe he was pulling those sneaky attacks.
Both Damon and Gamisaras the invisible have been eliminated by 17 and Piccolo respectively.
Ah alright, thanks for clarifying. I probably should've kept up to speed with the eliminations since I clearly wasn't keeping track of them properly.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:44 am

Hey, that wasn't too bad.

I would say its probably the most interesting chapter of the TOP so far.

Freeza is fun, and I absolutely adored the little telekinetic battle he had with Caulifla at the beginning.

Liked the Goku/Freeza dynamic.

Still not a particularly big fan of Kale and the chapter definitely still suffered from a lot of Toyo'isms in the art department despite being better than the last couple of chapters.

Personally, I'm just finding it funny that the first multi part stage of the TOP is Broly, considering Toyo's past with implementing the character, I find it terribly ironic.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Zen Yabuki » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:48 am

Chapter was nice. Best chapter of the ToP by far imo. Kale shitting on Freeza was funny to watch. The Goku/Freeza stuff was nice. Other than that, don't really care much about Cabba or Caulifla.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OriginalRed » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:17 am

It's amazing how different you can view the chapter after reading the official translation as opposed to just going off of the leaks.

Frieza's comments towards Goku about him not taking Kale seriously either means that he, like many people theorized, was simply caught off guard by her surprising power or that his arrogance/pride is so vast that even though Kale is clearly stronger than him, he refuses to admit it. I'm leaning towards the former a bit since he was still a bit cocky even after Kale was beating his ass like a drum.

Oddly enough, I'm much more accepting of Kale's strength now after Goku's comments towards her power in this chapter that I wasn't aware of before the official translation. When he first caught her punch, he was impressed but not worried and was certainly stronger at that point. However, as he continued to exchange blows with her, he was startled that her power kept growing and growing at a ridiculous rate and that shock led to Kale finding an opening to break his guard. So it's not as if Kale was just outright stronger than him initially, her unique SSJ transformation trades sanity for an increase in her power the more she uses it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:47 am

OriginalRed wrote:It's amazing how different you can view the chapter after reading the official translation as opposed to just going off of the leaks.

Frieza's comments towards Goku about him not taking Kale seriously either means that he, like many people theorized, was simply caught off guard by her surprising power or that his arrogance/pride is so vast that even though Kale is clearly stronger than him, he refuses to admit it. I'm leaning towards the former a bit since he was still a bit cocky even after Kale was beating his ass like a drum.

Oddly enough, I'm much more accepting of Kale's strength now after Goku's comments towards her power in this chapter that I wasn't aware of before the official translation. When he first caught her punch, he was impressed but not worried and was certainly stronger at that point. However, as he continued to exchange blows with her, he was startled that her power kept growing and growing at a ridiculous rate and that shock led to Kale finding an opening to break his guard. So it's not as if Kale was just outright stronger than him initially, her unique SSJ transformation trades sanity for an increase in her power the more she uses it.
I agree with this evaluation. Freeza hasn't fought seriously yet, he was more upset about Goku than Kale. Goku almost getting hit by Kale is a product of surprise, you can see in the panel with the exclamation point after his guard was broken, he's like "what's going on here"?

I have a lot to say about this chapter, good and bad things. I'll post about it later. I'll just quickly say that I disagree with people saying it's the best chapter of ToP, Frost's chapter still holds it. This one however has the best fight so far.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:46 am

This is the best chapter of the Universal Survival arc that Toyotaro has provided so far by leaps and bounds.

Freeza fighting the U6 Saiyans, especially Caulifla, was fantastic. The dynamic of Freeza with his innate hatred for Saiyans, regardless of even if they come from another universe, was played off extremely well.

Kale stole the show in the chapter.

She was confident and assured in battle right from the get-go (even eliminating someone in her base form nonchalantly), her transformation into her SSJ Beserker form felt very palatable to the plot and the current scenario and she felt very well integrated with Cabba and Caulifla when they were fighting Freeza.

I absolutely loved that angle that Kale was holding back her strength as a favor to Caulifla for saving her when they met. It was wonderful character moment that also managed expand on her personality and provide a tidbit on her backstory.

As much as I liked the character arc Kale had in the anime, as well as her unique relationship with Caulifla, I would have much preferred it if anime had taken the route Toyotaro did with revealing her SSJ Beserker power in the Tournament Of Power. It felt more much more seamless into the plot and tied into her characterisation much better. Whereas in the anime, there was more of that feeling of, "Hey, you guys like Broly? Well, check this out!"

Of course, all this won't mean much if in the next chapter Kale is just tossed out anticlimactically. We have SSJ Kale beating the shit out of Golden Freeza and overwhelming SSJB Goku... build on this Toyotaro. You've created the right amount of hype for a newly introduced character. Don't pull a "Hit" with Kale and pull the rug from underneath her feet.

And of course, the panelling, fight choreography and overall art was stunning overall, but I do have to say that I don't think the black and white composition of the manga does Golden Freeza justice.

With regards to comparing Kale the anime version and the manga version, I think this one of those cases where the two mediums (anime and manga) takes two different approaches at the characterization of certain new characters to get the most they feel they can get out what kind of story they want to tell with the devices at their disposal and what they like about Dragon Ball the best. Toei wanted to give Kale the "Saiyan arc Gohan" treatment with her character development, while making her more of a mythology gag in her initial appearances, and Toyotaro is more straightforward with Kale making her a more no-nonsense Saiyan right off the bat. And how much mileage people get out those approaches will vary. This is much like how Toei and Toyotaro treated Goku Black and Zamasu. The incarnations of those characters had many subtle and nuanced differences that made they seem different when compared to eachother. But how they were written benefited what kind of stories both mediums wanted to tell. Both mediums can take notes from eachother, but ultimately want to tell the story in their own ways.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:17 am

Mmmm , I guess kale transformation doesn’t have green hair here , at least nobody said anything about it
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saturnine » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:22 am

The manga has always been alright with power scaling, but this chapter was downright ridiculous with how powerful Kale was depicted. She should be comfortably below SSj God while at her strongest just like she was in the anime. Making her this strong is inexcusable, unless Freeza is meant to be way below SSj God level himself. Still, this suggests that Toyotaro's relatively consistent powerscaling thus far has been more of a fluke than a conscious effort, which is a damn shame.

At least her initial SSj state before she got buff was made to look interesting. Scary and ominous like stuff only rarely seen in DB.

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