"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:43 pm

I particularly enjoyed this chapter because I don’t like expanding lores too much, like the anime tried to do in most of the Jiren Arc and didn’t convince. I was starting to think the manga would have the same problem, but thankfully it used Kale for a good purpose.

I enjoyed also Vegeta describing Kale’s weakness, which goes exactly on the point about the battle royal allowing circumstances where the weak can beat the strong, like a raid assault. And Caulifla stealing the Potara was a great idea.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:09 pm

It does not make sense to make a tournament of 80 fighters if almost everyone will do fodder ... especially with the theme of the 12 universes ...
something that I liked a lot of the anime is the interaction of caulifla and goku as well as the nameks with piccolo in addition to the battle against anilaza that does not exist here.
It is very disappointing ..
the relation between the members of the U6 is very opportunistic to the exception of caulifla and kale
caulifla stealing the potara is fun
cabba has a good moments with vegeta but her participation feels forced here unlike the anime.
gohan vs kefla? the truth is a very empty fight for me .. caulifla/kefla and goku in addition to being saiyan had much in common that kind of interaction and relation makes the fight have more substance with gohan has nothing really

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:34 pm

What does everyone think will be the match ups for the final stretch?

-I expect Gohan to lose to Kefla with Freeza dispatching her quickly after.
-Vegeta against Toppo is the obvious one.
- #17 and Muten Roshi vs Dsypo and the Army dude.
- Goku vs Jiren

I hope there's interruptions and twists to mix things up. Except Vegeta vs Toppo I want a good and clean 1 on 1 fight there.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:11 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:Garbage chapter, for me. I hate fast eliminations, and the mange is even worse than the anime on that front. It definitely screams 'plot convenience', although the 'You think she's tough? Well, wait till you see Broly!' theory holds a lot of wait as well. But when you trash your arc in order to hype your next one … meh.
I'm sure there are people who would have wanted this arc to go on forever with every single character getting the same build up Jiren did, and keep the plot fatigue going just to have something to talk about, but this is not the first time we've had fast eliminations in tournaments before. Why is this such a problem now and where to people get this expectation for everyone to be equally fleshed out? Maybe the problem is obvious in this arc's poor structure, lack of story and its treatment of the plot to be no different than the U6 arc's silly premise. I still dont agree that this chapter is flawed for reasons in Toyotaro's control, especially with the parallel with the anime literally taking forever to get rid of people mid-way through.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:18 pm

LightBing wrote:What does everyone think will be the match ups for the final stretch?

-I expect Gohan to lose to Kefla with Freeza dispatching her quickly after.
-Vegeta against Toppo is the obvious one.
- #17 and Muten Roshi vs Dsypo and the Army dude.
- Goku vs Jiren

I hope there's interruptions and twists to mix things up. Except Vegeta vs Toppo I want a good and clean 1 on 1 fight there.
Gohan helped by Roshi finish kefla and Roshi selfeliminated
Tired Gohan is eliminated by dyspo
17 and freeza eliminate dyspo
Vegeta eliminates Toppo
Jiren vs the remaining
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MyNiggaGoku » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:20 pm

This chapter is the epitome of what I love about this manga arc: the chaotic nature a battle royale should have. Yes many fodder characters were wasted but I don't mind this at all, since I truly don't care much about fodder getting the spotlight. They are here to be 'sacrificed' in order to create chaos into the tournament.
I wonder what will ultimately happen with Kefla and Gohan and I am also eagerly waiting to get to the main stuff with Jiren.

Also, this chapter and this arc overall, doesn't give me the feeling that it's getting rushed. On the contrary, I think it takes its time. Yes, the first 13 chapters were rushed, to that I agree. BoG and parts of the U6 Tournament were just plot points drawn ( the ending of the Tournament and Super Shenron's summoning were dreadful). However, the Zamasu arc and the ongoing ToP are imo nicely paced ( or at least, to my likings). I have the feeling that if someone were to split these chapters into smaller, 15-pages or so chapters, then the pacing would feel much more organic to many people. I don't know, but maybe the fact that we have to consume a lot of events once a month, in one sitting, creates a rushed vibe to the whole narrative.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:53 pm

Are people saying Toyotaro is wasting characters when he really isn't? He literally sacrificed them for the meaningful characters purposes. It's like they were mad at the Trunks portrayal cause he couldn't compete with the heavy hitters.
Bergamo wrote:I really like Obuni's elimination. I like how he says that Gowas' philosophies have helped him make peace with his demise as he runs into a fight he can't win. It really gives the character and his universe a personality.
I thought Obuni was well done in both anime and manga. Morerso the anime.
jeffbr92 wrote:
OhHiRenan wrote:I think, even though it began as promotional material for the anime, the manga has solidified itself as a proper sequel alongside the anime at this point.
That's just headcanon, you may question its quality, but the anime was always the main product who was promoted first by the author himself.
You seem to be very bitter at the recent factual news that the Super manga was the only one considered as canon that continued Toriyama's original DB manga.
It's fine to not accept it but don't go and throw around your headcannon as if it takes away this truth.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:04 pm

Miracles wrote:You seem to be very bitter at the recent factual news that the Super manga was the only one considered as canon that continued Toriyama's original DB manga.
It's fine to not accept it but don't go and throw around your headcannon as if it takes away this truth.
Factual news = a banner from Shueisha? Did the main site has addressed that was a canon confirmation? Oh no, was just you. Even the ones who disagreed with me on the subject said earlier: "There have been no official statements made about canon"

You can deny as much as you want, but the anime is the main product, Toriyama first message about Super was directed to the animated series and the manga came afterwards to promote the latter.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:10 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:Factual news = a banner from Shueisha? Did the main site has addressed that was a canon confirmation? Oh no, was just you. Even the ones who disagreed with me on the subject said earlier: "There have been no official statements made about canon"

You can deny as much as you want, but the anime is the main product, Toriyama first message about Super was directed to the anime and the manga came afterwards to promote the latter.
You don't decide how facts are presented. Super manga being the only canon so far was from an official source [Shueisha] and it holds more weight than any fandom's feelings.
I'm not gonna sit here and have nerd wars over this. It's just something I thought was good for added info but what really angers me is people just outright dismissing authority.
Especially when Shueisha has the Super manga continue Toriyama's original DB manga, THE ULTIMATE authority of the Dragonball franchise.
Last edited by Miracles on Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:10 pm

MyNiggaGoku wrote: Also, this chapter and this arc overall, doesn't give me the feeling that it's getting rushed.
That's because it's not. Every chapter (or sometimes couple of chapters) has a dedicated subplot with its own themes and close-knit structure, yet told within a structureless setting. It's the latter part that gives people the impression it's going too fast, but again, that's almost always made to emphasize and sell the former. Whatever happens to unimportant universes is totally secondary to the progression of a story that isn't focused on them.

You needn't look beyond Kale's subplot to see that. When I think of the story having her go on a bloodthirsty rampage, I expect to see an actual rampage. That's exactly what I got from the manga.
jeffbr92 wrote: Factual news = a banner from Shueisha? Did the main site has addressed that was a canon confirmation?
I don't give a rodent's anus about canonicity arguments, but to respond to your questions, the first answer is "Yes, material from Shueisha/Toei is entirely official" and the second answer is "No, but that doesn't matter because most of our official information doesn't come from the main website". Moving goalposts isn't necessary.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:36 pm

Miracles wrote:You don't decide how facts are presented. Super manga being the only canon so far was from an official source [Shueisha] and it holds more weight than any fandom's feelings.
I'm not gonna sit here and have nerd wars over this. It's just something I thought was good for added info but what really angers me is people just outright dismissing authority.
Especially when Shueisha has the Super manga continue Toriyama's original DB manga, THE ULTIMATE authority of the Dragonball franchise.
You don't decide either. Shueisha is the publisher, DB is owned by Toei Animation and Akira Toriyama, only them could declare an official continuity. There's no guarantee these words from a banner in english language came from one of them.

The anime remains as the true sequel of the series until proven otherwise.
Marlowe89 wrote:I don't give a rodent's anus about canonicity arguments, but to respond to your questions, the first answer is "Yes, material from Shueisha/Toei is entirely official" and the second answer is "No, but that doesn't matter because most of our official information doesn't come from the main website". Moving goalposts isn't necessary.
Sorry, but you're not at their position to state that was a confirmation, only Toei or Toriyama could have addressed that. Kanzenshuu is one of the most credible sites when it comes to DB news, if that was supposed to be official statement it would be there on the main site.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:05 am

jeffbr92 wrote: Sorry, but you're not at their position to state that was a confirmation
No, but they are. If said material was associated with official parties, it's official material. Pretty simple stuff. The banner that you're referring to comes from an event that was officially organized by Shueisha and Toei.

I'm not even sure what you're asking for, exactly. A confirmation of a confirmation? I'm not gonna dwell on semantics, but that's redundant.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:26 am

jeffbr92 wrote:
You don't decide either. Shueisha is the publisher, DB is owned by Toei Animation and Akira Toriyama,
Db is owned by Shueisha and birdstudio (Toriyama) , is produced by Toei in his anime version and serialized by Shueisha .
I don’t care about the canon thing . I only can tell that the manga has less inconsistencies
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:42 am

Marlowe89 wrote:I'm not even sure what you're asking for, exactly. A confirmation of a confirmation? I'm not gonna dwell on semantics, but that's redundant.
No, I'm saying that this banner credibility is questionable since there's no guarantee the words come from Toriyama or Toei, if at least was in japanese then we could clear this up much easier.
prince212 wrote:I don’t care about the canon thing . I only can tell that the manga has less inconsistencies
Me neither, is not like you can't enjoy non canon stuff.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supercat » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:17 am

Saiga wrote:
supercat wrote:
Saiga wrote:The initial comparison was 'he's around as tough as Cell, but not a big deal' and later corrects himself by saying Dabra is better than he thought.

I don't think Super Perfect Cell has been so thoroughly surpassed that Goku and Vegeta could talk about him so casually - especially when neither of them have confirmed that the other is capable of Super Saiyan 2.
But what would be the point of comparing two characters when one isn't even at full power? It's just wouldn't be an accurate comparison in my opinion.
It's literally not meant to be an accurate comparison. He's not saying Dabra is exactly as strong as Cell, he's just giving an off-hand reference to where-abouts Dabra lies. Lying somewhere on the spectrum of Perfect Cell fits that.
From a narrative standpoint, I feel specific names are usually used as measuring sticks. If Dabura was only as strong as a suppressed Cell, there really wouldn't be any place for such a statement in my opinion. That would be like Supreme Kai bragging about being stronger than First Form Frieza. These kind of remarks are usually in place to show the audience just how much of a threat these new villains are in comparison to previously established benchmarks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:25 am

And, in Dabra's case, that was used to show he wasn't much of a threat to the current heroes. And this is before Goku and Vegeta had openly come out to each other about having Super Saiyan 2.

I think it's a pretty weird situation either way you interpret it.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:42 am

How does eliminating 20+ characters in the most boring and repetitive way make this feel chaotic?
It felt so convenient and contrived just because they were universes not meant to be too important to the story.

I feel many of you, who seemingly enjoy whatever the manga been's churning out these last few months, don't realize how poorly these characters are portrayed.

Like Doctor said previously, no one is asking for a dedicated chapter for specific fighters, but for these characters to be used in interesting ways that give us an entertaining chapter to read. It's almost as if you are only interested in mindless action and not really anything else.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Analytical Delusion » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:10 am

I enjoyed this chapter for the most part.

Pros:
• Art has been pretty good the past couple chapters, after one month (I think it was 36?) felt rushed and had some weird art (like that 17 panel).
• In the anime, it made it seem like Goku was hand-feeding Kale/Caulifla. Here, they feel like a threat, with Kefla looking like a legit mid-boss.
• I liked the sudden eliminations. There wasn't much payoff from Kale/Kefla in the anime, here she (they?) eliminates a ton of characters.
• Another chapter with Vegeta and Toppo fighting in the background. I'm hoping there will be some legit payoff, and Toppo will fight him in his god form.
• I liked the callback to the legendary super saiyan as self-destructing under his/her own power. Might've been anime only, but reminds me of what Vegeta said.
• The Kefla fusion makes a lot of sense here, since Kale's fighting style is predictable. Kale's power plus Caulifla's fighting prowess makes a lot of sense.
• It seems Kahseral will play a bigger part in the manga than in the anime. In the latter, he looks to be closer to Dyspo/Toppo, in the former he was an also-ran.
• I liked Kale eliminating her own people (and even striking Caulifla, skipping the soft spot in the anime), because it really shows how little control she has over the form.

Cons:
• I really don't like Gohan lining up against Kefla. He is completely outclassed so it would be hard to swallow him winning, and it would feel a bit underwhelming if he gets crushed.
• I would have preferred to either have Kefla beat Aniraza, or for Kale to have eliminated him. I didn't think he would appear in the manga, and it felt a little wasted.
• I didn't like that Dyspo was caught off guard by Caulifla, who he should by all means (unless he's much weaker than in the anime) be much stronger than.
• Seeing how big a role Kale/Kefla is playing, it would've been nice if Hit had a bigger part. I guess his role was to job to Jiren, and he did put up a decent fight, but he should've been a bigger threat IMO.

Next chapter (39) predictions:
• Honestly, who else is available to fight? So we have Goku, Vegeta, Freeza, 17, Gohan, Roshi left for team 7; Kefla for team 6; Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo, Kahseral for team 11.
• I don't know if Kefla will be eliminated next chapter, or the one after. But I have a feeling Gohan will get absolutely bodied, and will need to use his wits. Maybe Roshi teams up with Gohan, and all three are eliminated?
• So if that's the case, it leaves us with a pretty entertaining final 4 vs 4 for universe 7 vs 11. Goku/Jiren, Vegeta/Toppo, Freeza/Dyspo seem like they'll happen, and maybe 17/Kahseral if the latter survives the chapter (maybe he's who Roshi defeats?).
• Note - I didn't expect to see Aniraza or Kefla in the manga. I think I said a few months ago I didn't expect to see either of those forms, God Toppo or Evolution Vegeta. Maybe we see all four? Or maybe Mastered Blue Vegeta can take down God Toppo (in a double elimination or otherwise).
• I wonder when we'll see UI Goku? I doubt we see the Omen version since we're so late in the game already.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:00 am

Exline wrote:How does eliminating 20+ characters in the most boring and repetitive way make this feel chaotic?
It felt so convenient and contrived just because they were universes not meant to be too important to the story.

I feel many of you, who seemingly enjoy whatever the manga been's churning out these last few months, don't realize how poorly these characters are portrayed.

Like Doctor said previously, no one is asking for a dedicated chapter for specific fighters, but for these characters to be used in interesting ways that give us an entertaining chapter to read. It's almost as if you are only interested in mindless action and not really anything else.
They served their purpose and that's good enough taking account the context of the tournament, although this chapter passed the line and went overkill.

Cabba, Kale and Caulifla were all properly used even the secondary Pride Troopers got their time on the sun. Are you asking for every single participant to "matter" have an motivation or a gimmick? Because that's pretty unrealistic and would be a sure way to make the arc a failure by conception.

Are you saying there's not enough characters doing stuff? Then what's the best number/percentage? I don't know seems pretty arbitrary, the only thing I'm sure is that the extremes don't make for a good story. I wouldn't mind Aniliza and a couple of others having more of an impact but that's my preference and claiming wasted potential isn't really an argument. This to say that I don't agree with you.

Maybe the 23rd TB should be looked at as the balance between those who matter and those who don't. It's the most similar I can think off.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolySSJL » Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:06 am

This chapter is amazing... Kale is SOOOO much better than the anime (design, she attacks everyone and not only U7,...).

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