"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:30 pm

CriticalThinker wrote:
Torturephile wrote: It would be funny if Roshi becomes the Android 17 of the manga.
Doubt that will happen but I would love it if it did end up happening.
1345521 wrote: 17 is fodder compared to kefla though, 17 would get one shot by ssj god, much less kefla. And gohan strength remains to be seen. I was think ultimate gohan is as powerful as 17 and ssj3 goku...but I'm not sure anymore.
What's problem going to happen is Frieza and goha. Will work together. 17 and Roshi take on the pride troopers.
I mean we have no clue as to how much stronger Kefla is when compared to 17. I have no doubt that she is probably stronger but not that much so that he can't fight against her for a bit.
Dude, 17 is only ssj3 tier. He's no match for kefla...AT ALL. Kale alone..it's hard to gage her power but she's at least blue tier. Kefla was stated by Vados to possibly be as stronger then Jiren. 17 gets one shotted by kefla and it's not even close.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Black Hawk » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:34 pm

MoscoSama wrote:How do you guys think Kefla will be eliminated?
If the final four Universe 07 fighters being Goku, Vegeta, No. 17, and Freeza is part of Toriyama's outline, then I expect Gohan-kun will eliminate Kafla at the price of his own elimination, leaving only Top and Jiren as opponents from there. (Whereas Turtle Hermit defeats Casserole but drops out afterward and No. 17 defeats Dispo.) If I had to guess on the method, I think he'll take her down with him without Freeza's involvement. Think Bowser's and Ganondorf's side-specials from Smash Brothers Brawl onward, something to that effect, after wearing Kafla down and reaching his limit. I'm excited to see how it goes!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:36 pm

TKA wrote:Whatever the result, I expect people to be angry that Gohan is a match for Kafla. They'll cite how Kale manhandled Frieza and Goku. They'll neglect that both Frieza and Goku weren't fighting seriously, that she did no permanent damage to either of them, that Vegeta shrugged her off and that she was even weaker than she was at the start when Caulifla (who only has SS1) finally managed to fuse with her. They'll also neglect that ultimate Gohan in the Buu Arc was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, who is also a fusion of two Super Saiyans that were stronger than Android 18 individually.
Idk why in the world Toyo made gohan come to defend goku and was confident he could take on kefla. But if this going to work to make all parties happy, toyos going have to either explain why gohan is so amped OR B. Have gohan use a certain technquie that'll stump even kefla. Vegeta brought out ssj god vegeta just for it serve purpose isln using tactic. So it can be done. Toyotaro knows what he's doing, he's not going to do something to where even his fans can't defend him. He has t done that yet, doubt he will for chapter 39.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LimitbreakerKrillin » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:40 pm

1345521 wrote:
LimitbreakerKrillin wrote:
MoscoSama wrote:-snip-
-snip-
Not going to happen, Gohan ultiamtge form is the combination of all his ssj forms, his base form and rage boost all into one. He can't get stronger then ultimate form unless toyotaro does something creative, which he's cabable of doing. But stacking ssj on ultimate would really ruin the manga chapter since it's a blatant contradiction of the OG manga and toyo dosne't do that.
Dont be so sure, potara's time limit was never established in the original manga, prior to Goku Black Arc most people assumed it was the atmosphere inside Super Buu that caused Vegetto's defusion. Gohan basically needs something to close the power gap between him and Kefla, and combining two already established transformations which we know Gohan can use, would feel less like an a**pull. Same reason why Super saiyan blue kaioken was more easy to swallow than Super saiyan blue evolution in the anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:52 pm

TKA wrote:
Noah wrote:After received the beating of her life by Gohan (reminding of Spopovich vs. Videl), Goku will say that's enough (like Yamu) and then Gohan will just grab her by the leg already unconscious and throw out of the ring.
Lol, sounds like the start to one of those kinds of fanfics/doujins.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MoscoSama » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:02 pm

I don't think there needs to be any scaling bs for kefla to "lose".

We saw 6 pride troopers who got handled by ssj goku basically damage and knock kale off the stage because that form of hers basically makes her predictable and kills her on the inside. I could see Toyotaro make the "green form" do something similar to kefla where she gets weaker as the fight goes on or the opposite of the anime

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by CriticalThinker » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:04 pm

1345521 wrote: Dude, 17 is only ssj3 tier. He's no match for kefla...AT ALL. Kale alone..it's hard to gage her power but she's at least blue tier. Kefla was stated by Vados to possibly be as stronger then Jiren. 17 gets one shotted by kefla and it's not even close.
Like I said before I don't doubt that Kefla is stronger than 17 but I don't think she's so much stronger that she'd just one shot him right away. Ultimately I wasn't really figuring in power levels when I mentioned having 17 team up with Gohan it's just a team up I want to see more of.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:25 pm

I haven't given much thought to Kefla's potential power but she should be stronger than a SSJ3 and weaker than SSJG, there's a lot in-between so it's pretty hard to pinpoint. Gohan, people are forgetting he's been training since the Goku Black arc and he had the unseen Piccolo training, who said to Goku "we can't win without Gohan". Maybe that's not false hype and Toyotarõ has a plan for Gohan slowly powering him up all this time.
MoscoSama wrote:I don't think there needs to be any scaling bs for kefla to "lose".

We saw 6 pride troopers who got handled by ssj goku basically damage and knock kale off the stage because that form of hers basically makes her predictable and kills her on the inside. I could see Toyotaro make the "green form" do something similar to kefla where she gets weaker as the fight goes on or the opposite of the anime
That would defeat the purpose of the fusion which was to stop what was happening to Kale.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MoscoSama » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:35 pm

LightBing wrote:I haven't given much thought to Kefla's potential power but she should be stronger than a SSJ3 and weaker than SSJG, there's a lot in-between so it's pretty hard to pinpoint. Gohan, people are forgetting he's been training since the Goku Black arc and he had the unseen Piccolo training, who said to Goku "we can't win without Gohan". Maybe that's not false hype and Toyotarõ has a plan for Gohan slowly powering him up all this time.
MoscoSama wrote:I don't think there needs to be any scaling bs for kefla to "lose".

We saw 6 pride troopers who got handled by ssj goku basically damage and knock kale off the stage because that form of hers basically makes her predictable and kills her on the inside. I could see Toyotaro make the "green form" do something similar to kefla where she gets weaker as the fight goes on or the opposite of the anime
That would defeat the purpose of the fusion which was to stop what was happening to Kale.

Kefla is definitely above ssb level. Vados stated she might be unmatched on the stage so she's atleast above a suppressed jiren and any blue tier fighters.

I'm not saying kefla will go rampaging or dying but maybe the form itself causes her to get weaker kind of like Golden did for Freeza or Blue used to Goku and Vegeta. Just speculation of course

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:53 pm

Bergamo wrote: Reminder that this is the manga discussion thread.
True. This started because we were arguing weather or not the RoF movie can fit in with the manga as the manga skipped the RoF arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:57 pm

MoscoSama wrote:Kefla is definitely above ssb level. Vados stated she might be unmatched on the stage so she's atleast above a suppressed jiren and any blue tier fighters.

I'm not saying kefla will go rampaging or dying but maybe the form itself causes her to get weaker kind of like Golden did for Freeza or Blue used to Goku and Vegeta. Just speculation of course
Vados didn't say that. If you are referencing to what she said at the end of chapter 37, she's talking about the chance of Kale losing control which did happen; Vados confirmed this was her concern on the last chapter after Kale eliminated Magetta.

I guess a stamina draining form is possible. I hope it doesn't happen that sort of handicap is overdone, getting tired of it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Simere » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:14 pm

LightBing wrote:
MoscoSama wrote:Kefla is definitely above ssb level. Vados stated she might be unmatched on the stage so she's atleast above a suppressed jiren and any blue tier fighters.

I'm not saying kefla will go rampaging or dying but maybe the form itself causes her to get weaker kind of like Golden did for Freeza or Blue used to Goku and Vegeta. Just speculation of course
Vados didn't say that. If you are referencing to what she said at the end of chapter 37, she's talking about the chance of Kale losing control which did happen; Vados confirmed this was her concern on the last chapter after Kale eliminated Magetta.

I guess a stamina draining form is possible. I hope it doesn't happen that sort of handicap is overdone, getting tired of it.
He's referring to this in 38:

Vados: It seems this happy accident led to the ultimate warrior—with Kale's sheer power and Caulifla's sense for battle in one body, they can combine their respective strengths. In fact, Kefla may be unmatched on this battlefield.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:16 pm

1345521 wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
1345521 wrote: That's accurate. The reason my hope is building is because broly is my favorite character in the franchise and somehow he's coming back and made "canon". And then in this broly movie may not EVEN HAVE toei filler transformations which would be awesome! Here's what I want!
Dbs Orginal anime run be compeltly nulled as noncanon.
We either get a reboot to dbs anime OR the new dbs anime from now adapts toyotaro manga
And then we have an arc where the events of GT ARE CANON(A GT TIMELINE) WOAaaah!!!!!

If this broly can AT LEAST have none of those toei filler forms, a good step in the direction. Because ssj god vegeta was a TOYOTARO idea! And it's in the movie.
HECK NO. Way more db fans have enjoyed the anime compared to the manga.

And about this whole “nullify the dbs anime” and “follow the dbs manga”, never gonna happen. The dbs anime has way more of a following so replacing it in favor of a less know manga that was made to promote the anime is never gonna happen. No one would want a DBS reboot anyway. People want NEW content. Sure, Toriyama and Toei can take some ideas from GT and twist it to make it their own but the moment they make an arc thats exactly GT, you know they’re getting lazy.

And I stand my my statement. Toyotaro is too bad of a story-teller (even when he has a month AND has most of the main story points done for him) to continue Dragon Ball and I hope Toriyama knows that. Also, IMO, his fight scenes aren’t dynamic enough. And if he has that many problems now, imagine him having to create a whole new story, characters, dialogue, fight scenes, etc, while he only has one week to finish a chapter all for the biggest anime series out there. No way.
Take all of that, and go to the dbs manga forum so I can properly discuss those points. I told you, I'm not getting in trouble by mods, again. This forum is about the movie, not dbs manga vs dbs anime.

As I said, ssj god vegeta is a toyotaro idea and somehow made it's way to the dbs movie while no sign of kaioken or evolution.
Ok done. And i don’t see how SSGod Vegeta really plays into most of what i said. But now that you brought it up, I’d say don’t look into it too much. They’ve already stressed that this movie would have fan-service. And there is also the fact that since SSGod is a Toriyama-made transformation most likely unlike SSBKK or SSBE, its way more likely for it to be in since Toriyama is the one writing the movie and every event that happens in it.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:31 pm

Simere wrote:
LightBing wrote:
MoscoSama wrote:Kefla is definitely above ssb level. Vados stated she might be unmatched on the stage so she's atleast above a suppressed jiren and any blue tier fighters.

I'm not saying kefla will go rampaging or dying but maybe the form itself causes her to get weaker kind of like Golden did for Freeza or Blue used to Goku and Vegeta. Just speculation of course
Vados didn't say that. If you are referencing to what she said at the end of chapter 37, she's talking about the chance of Kale losing control which did happen; Vados confirmed this was her concern on the last chapter after Kale eliminated Magetta.

I guess a stamina draining form is possible. I hope it doesn't happen that sort of handicap is overdone, getting tired of it.
He's referring to this in 38:

Vados: It seems this happy accident led to the ultimate warrior—with Kale's sheer power and Caulifla's sense for battle in one body, they can combine their respective strengths. In fact, Kefla may be unmatched on this battlefield.
Oh that's totally different then, I didn't even register that line when I read the chapter. I stand corrected, Gohan should be no match if Vados is referring to power.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:36 pm

1345521 wrote: Idk why in the world Toyo made gohan come to defend goku and was confident he could take on kefla. But if this going to work to make all parties happy, toyos going have to either explain why gohan is so amped OR B. Have gohan use a certain technquie that'll stump even kefla. Vegeta brought out ssj god vegeta just for it serve purpose isln using tactic. So it can be done. Toyotaro knows what he's doing, he's not going to do something to where even his fans can't defend him. He has t done that yet, doubt he will for chapter 39.
Did you not read the post you quoted?

Ultimate Gohan being stronger than a fusion of 2 Super Saiyans each above Android 18's power level was established in the Buu arc, with him being much stronger than SS3 Gotenks.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:43 pm

I have no doubt in my mind that Gohan would get wrecked by Kelfa.

Gohan will get help against her.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:44 pm

TKA wrote:
1345521 wrote: Idk why in the world Toyo made gohan come to defend goku and was confident he could take on kefla. But if this going to work to make all parties happy, toyos going have to either explain why gohan is so amped OR B. Have gohan use a certain technquie that'll stump even kefla. Vegeta brought out ssj god vegeta just for it serve purpose isln using tactic. So it can be done. Toyotaro knows what he's doing, he's not going to do something to where even his fans can't defend him. He has t done that yet, doubt he will for chapter 39.
Did you not read the post you quoted?

Ultimate Gohan being stronger than a fusion of 2 Super Saiyans each above Android 18's power level was established in the Buu arc, with him being much stronger than SS3 Gotenks.
Yeah, and he did this with an base form that's below goku and vegetas base too. Hm...I guess I have underestimating how massive of an mutlplyer ultimate gohan is. Imagine if base gohan was as strong as base goku and vegeta in the buu saga, his ultmate form would at least be buuhN tier. Even then, it still wouldn't be enough to face kefla who's stronger then mssj blue. Gohan should stand no chance.

Latinate gohan being strknged the. Ssj3 gotenks means did my sqaut. Since goten and trunks aren't that strong. Kale is massively powerful and caulifa isn't an joke. I just saying it wouldn't make sense for gohan to be stronger then SSJ GOD tier of power, much less kefla range.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:52 pm

TKA wrote:
1345521 wrote: Idk why in the world Toyo made gohan come to defend goku and was confident he could take on kefla. But if this going to work to make all parties happy, toyos going have to either explain why gohan is so amped OR B. Have gohan use a certain technquie that'll stump even kefla. Vegeta brought out ssj god vegeta just for it serve purpose isln using tactic. So it can be done. Toyotaro knows what he's doing, he's not going to do something to where even his fans can't defend him. He has t done that yet, doubt he will for chapter 39.
Did you not read the post you quoted?

Ultimate Gohan being stronger than a fusion of 2 Super Saiyans each above Android 18's power level was established in the Buu arc, with him being much stronger than SS3 Gotenks.
Kale is stronger than SSB Goku. Not only is Kale stronger than Gohan individually, but she is now fused.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:15 pm

Bergamo wrote:
TKA wrote:
1345521 wrote: Idk why in the world Toyo made gohan come to defend goku and was confident he could take on kefla. But if this going to work to make all parties happy, toyos going have to either explain why gohan is so amped OR B. Have gohan use a certain technquie that'll stump even kefla. Vegeta brought out ssj god vegeta just for it serve purpose isln using tactic. So it can be done. Toyotaro knows what he's doing, he's not going to do something to where even his fans can't defend him. He has t done that yet, doubt he will for chapter 39.
Did you not read the post you quoted?

Ultimate Gohan being stronger than a fusion of 2 Super Saiyans each above Android 18's power level was established in the Buu arc, with him being much stronger than SS3 Gotenks.
Kale is stronger than SSB Goku. Not only is Kale stronger than Gohan individually, but she is now fused.
We don't know that. In terms of combat, mssj blue goku would stomp kale. Heck goku could beat kale in ssj god easily. But it's never stated kale has more strndgth then mssj blue goku.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:21 pm

I think gohans plan against kefla is relying in teamwork other than strength .
To say that kale was stronger than Blue Goku is not appropriate just by watching 3 punches .
We don’t even know if kale was able to beat Golden freeza , he stated that he needed to take on her seriously and then that fight was interrupted because kale run crazy to beat others. But later was proved that she was just a surprise factor
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