"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by shadowfox87 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:22 am

I'm going to quote this since not everyone reads everything in this thread:

Speed vs UI are two different things.
A way to measure this would be to have UI Goku and Jiren race each other in a 100 meter straight dash. The person who wins has higher pure speed. Whereas, a test for reaction time would be, where UI Goku and Jiren have to press a button when a light turns from red to green. The person who presses the button faster, has higher reaction time. So in these two cases, I'm saying Jiren wins the race but UI Goku presses the button faster. They are two completely different things. This is also why Flash, one of the fastest characters in the DC universe, would still lose a fight versus Slade who can predict where Flash will be, trip him, and win the fight.
Of course, I could be completely wrong about my interpretation of this if Toyotaro does contradict it in subsequent chapters, in which case I would really dislike it.
DBS Manga vs Anime Differences: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42062
Timelines Explanation: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=42105
Log Power Scaling: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40610
Science of Ultra Instinct: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=40707

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:37 am

It can also be played as "with no movement of energy wasted, a completed UI lets the user use their ki much more effectively, resulting in a greater concentrated power with less effort"

Basically, UI as SSGrade-4: greater efficiency results in greater power-output for the same energy cost.
Or Vegeta's God-Blue switch: by concentrating your power only in the moment of the attack, it's possible to use more power for each attack because you use much less power the rest of the time.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by superfan2024 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:50 am

New Toriyama corrections for the manga in the new Volume 7 interview have surfaced:

https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 8419355648

Ahhhh, it's so good to see some Toriyama work. Compared to the original drawings by Toyotaro before the corrections we have to really be grateful that Toriyama's actually taking his time to fix things that needs to be fixed.

Edit: Beerus x Ribrianne is canon.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cipher » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:52 am

Don't sleep on Toriyama's real contribution: BeerusxRibrianne.

Edit -- Sorry; had a minor correction and wanted to consolidate before retweets got out of hand, so here's the new link: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 5906147328
Last edited by Cipher on Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:14 pm

Though I like Toriyama's 18 reactions to the situation, I very much prefer Toyotaro's style of drawing 18. Toriyama's modern art style makes 18's face too round and cartoonish. Toyo's style is more reminiscent of DB manga 18.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeztin » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:22 pm

superfan2024 wrote:New Toriyama corrections for the manga in the new Volume 7 interview have surfaced:

https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 8419355648

Ahhhh, it's so good to see some Toriyama work. Compared to the original drawings by Toyotaro before the corrections we have to really be grateful that Toriyama's actually taking his time to fix things that needs to be fixed.

Edit: Beerus x Ribrianne is canon.
Do we know if the july 2018 jump carnival chapter is in the volume?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kudo6000 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:22 pm

God, I love Toriyama’s current art style.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:36 pm

Its wishful thinking but I hope one day we get a release of Toriyama's final drafts for each arc of Super.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:11 pm

Cipher wrote:Don't sleep on Toriyama's real contribution: BeerusxRibrianne.

Edit -- Sorry; had a minor correction and wanted to consolidate before retweets got out of hand, so here's the new link: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 5906147328
Thanks.
Hopefully the interview is interesting.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:07 pm

shadowfox87 wrote:I'm going to quote this since not everyone reads everything in this thread:

Speed vs UI are two different things.
A way to measure this would be to have UI Goku and Jiren race each other in a 100 meter straight dash. The person who wins has higher pure speed. Whereas, a test for reaction time would be, where UI Goku and Jiren have to press a button when a light turns from red to green. The person who presses the button faster, has higher reaction time. So in these two cases, I'm saying Jiren wins the race but UI Goku presses the button faster. They are two completely different things. This is also why Flash, one of the fastest characters in the DC universe, would still lose a fight versus Slade who can predict where Flash will be, trip him, and win the fight.
Of course, I could be completely wrong about my interpretation of this if Toyotaro does contradict it in subsequent chapters, in which case I would really dislike it.
Though I completely agree with the two examples of speed vs UI, however that isn't ever something that really is distinguishable in the series. Speed is speed when it comes to Dbz. Power is power. If you are the faster person, you have the faster reaction speed, in the series. I can only think of a few examples of when they might not be in the series.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:22 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote:Though I completely agree with the two examples of speed vs UI, however that isn't ever something that really is distinguishable in the series. Speed is speed when it comes to Dbz. Power is power. If you are the faster person, you have the faster reaction speed, in the series. I can only think of a few examples of when they might not be in the series.
^Canon fact. Whis even stated Ultra Instinct increases speed. In this chapter we just had a reminder of Popo's teachings that boosts overall speed. Even the Super anime depicted how the power difference between Goku and Jiren was closed when accessing UI.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Tue Sep 04, 2018 12:37 am

Miracles wrote:
ssj3kakarot wrote:Though I completely agree with the two examples of speed vs UI, however that isn't ever something that really is distinguishable in the series. Speed is speed when it comes to Dbz. Power is power. If you are the faster person, you have the faster reaction speed, in the series. I can only think of a few examples of when they might not be in the series.
^Canon fact. Whis even stated Ultra Instinct increases speed. In this chapter we just had a reminder of Popo's teachings that boosts overall speed. Even the Super anime depicted how the power difference between Goku and Jiren was closed when accessing UI.
Maybe I'm a little slow tonight and not following.

I believe that UI does in fact increase a number of things. Speed, power ( in the sense of the franchise is considered: harder hits, bigger blast, etc), clearly more durable, and a spidey-sense like ability.

What I was saying in regards to the example about speed and reaction was that in this franchise, those 2 differences ( speed and reaction) have never been differentiated from one another. They always go hand in hand. Speed is reaction time, and reaction time is speed. It doesn't apply to the real world.

Bruce lee can punch faster than Usian Bolt. Usian bolt can move faster than bruce lee. PS. I dont believe anyone is faster than Bruce Lee, he is speed incarnate. :)

So in the series, anyone who has great speed, has always had great reaction time. UI clearly gives Goku, as I mentioned before, a huge speed boost, as well as some of those things that I mentioned previously.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:44 am

ssj3kakarot wrote:
Miracles wrote:
ssj3kakarot wrote:Though I completely agree with the two examples of speed vs UI, however that isn't ever something that really is distinguishable in the series. Speed is speed when it comes to Dbz. Power is power. If you are the faster person, you have the faster reaction speed, in the series. I can only think of a few examples of when they might not be in the series.
^Canon fact. Whis even stated Ultra Instinct increases speed. In this chapter we just had a reminder of Popo's teachings that boosts overall speed. Even the Super anime depicted how the power difference between Goku and Jiren was closed when accessing UI.
Maybe I'm a little slow tonight and not following.

I believe that UI does in fact increase a number of things. Speed, power ( in the sense of the franchise is considered: harder hits, bigger blast, etc), clearly more durable, and a spidey-sense like ability.

What I was saying in regards to the example about speed and reaction was that in this franchise, those 2 differences ( speed and reaction) have never been differentiated from one another. They always go hand in hand. Speed is reaction time, and reaction time is speed. It doesn't apply to the real world.

Bruce lee can punch faster than Usian Bolt. Usian bolt can move faster than bruce lee. PS. I dont believe anyone is faster than Bruce Lee, he is speed incarnate. :)

So in the series, anyone who has great speed, has always had great reaction time. UI clearly gives Goku, as I mentioned before, a huge speed boost, as well as some of those things that I mentioned previously.
Hey, I was agreeing with you and the story. You are right. :thumbup:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:16 pm

This corrections are really good , toriyama touch up is geniusly great , the final page was amazing, one of my favorites in t.o.p manga arc
Image
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:23 pm

It's always interesting to read about the collaborative process between Toyotaro and Toriyama. Those minor dialogue revisions go a long way in demonstrating how relative the concept of beauty actually is, making Ribrianne seem less "freaky" in comparison to Toyotaro's first draft. Good stuff.

Also, it further confirms just how much creative control Toriyama actually has over the manga. Maybe that's both a blessing and a curse.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:03 am

Marlowe89 wrote:It's always interesting to read about the collaborative process between Toyotaro and Toriyama. Those minor dialogue revisions go a long way in demonstrating how relative the concept of beauty actually is, making Ribrianne seem less "freaky" in comparison to Toyotaro's first draft. Good stuff.

Also, it further confirms just how much creative control Toriyama actually has over the manga. Maybe that's both a blessing and a curse.
The curse of toriyama being the main actor (creativity talking) in this series , I.m.o is a bless, and I think the rest of the creativity team should think the same , including toyotaro , may be he can’t unleash himself as much as he wanted or some of the audience could want to see him unleash , but considering his comments, that’s the way to get closer to the gap between him and his sensei.
VOLUME 5 INTRODUCTION BY TOYOTARŌ
On one of my rough drafts, I got a correction back from Toriyama-sensei saying, “I suppose what makes Dragon Ball unique is how it takes the normal way of thinking about things and does something a bit more twisted.
Sensei… I guess that’s what separates geniuses from ordinary joes… I’m working hard to bridge that gap even by an inch!
I’m sure this series can be done better , but also they can be done worse , and the experiments they did in the past without toriyama being involved wasn’t satisfying for me (GT).
So for now the more toriyama we get , the better .
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:20 am

Does anyone know when we can expect the Toriyama interview that's supposed to be in this volume ??
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by IM21 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:26 am

sintzu wrote:Does anyone know when we can expect the Toriyama interview that's supposed to be in this volume ??
there is no interview in the volume.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:16 am

prince212 wrote:This corrections are really good , toriyama touch up is geniusly great , the final page was amazing, one of my favorites in t.o.p manga arc
Image
So I looks like Toriyama really is intimately involved in the manga, he even corrects slight character poses and dialogue. Even the grunts which we would think we’re unimportant were corrected.

Maybe all these “homages” were more Toriyama than Toyotaro.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by IM21 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:48 am

I am pretty sure Toriyama is checking every single chapter Toyotaro puts out and is more like an editor than a story writter. Thats why I think it was stupid to see some posts, especially on twitter, how Toriyama is gonna be angry with the Roshi vs Jiren stuff. I am sure Toriyama saw that in advance and if he had anything against it he would have said so to Toyo.

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