"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by shadowfox87 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:18 am

IM21 wrote:I am pretty sure Toriyama is checking every single chapter Toyotaro puts out and is more like an editor than a story writter. Thats why I think it was stupid to see some posts, especially on twitter, how Toriyama is gonna be angry with the Roshi vs Jiren stuff. I am sure Toriyama saw that in advance and if he had anything against it he would have said so to Toyo.
Exactly. Given the detail shown here and also in previous interviews, it is clear that Toriyama carefully checks each chapter. Toyotaro is credited for the "Art" in the front cover of the manga while Toriyama is credited for the "story".
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:54 am

shadowfox87 wrote:
IM21 wrote:I am pretty sure Toriyama is checking every single chapter Toyotaro puts out and is more like an editor than a story writter. Thats why I think it was stupid to see some posts, especially on twitter, how Toriyama is gonna be angry with the Roshi vs Jiren stuff. I am sure Toriyama saw that in advance and if he had anything against it he would have said so to Toyo.
Exactly. Given the detail shown here and also in previous interviews, it is clear that Toriyama carefully checks each chapter. Toyotaro is credited for the "Art" in the front cover of the manga while Toriyama is credited for the "story".
I think he also works with the anime's staff so he's not as hands off as we may think he is but they've never given full details on how much involvement he has.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:19 am

One pattern emerges, Mr.Toriyama's prioritizes gags and jokes. From what comes out he's far stricter in these details than storylines where he's even open to moderately important suggestions like Vegetto and SSJG Vegeta.

This scene in particular is much, much better after corrections. Toyotarõ versions is so boring and lifeless by comparison. How I wish Mr.Toriyama still wrote and drawn the manga. :(

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:22 am

Cipher wrote:Don't sleep on Toriyama's real contribution: BeerusxRibrianne.

Edit -- Sorry; had a minor correction and wanted to consolidate before retweets got out of hand, so here's the new link: https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/10 ... 5906147328
I noticed right away that 18 was awfully Toriyama-esque in that chapter and turns out I was right.

Would be better if Toriyama corrected more often, though.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:35 am

sintzu wrote:
shadowfox87 wrote:
IM21 wrote:I am pretty sure Toriyama is checking every single chapter Toyotaro puts out and is more like an editor than a story writter. Thats why I think it was stupid to see some posts, especially on twitter, how Toriyama is gonna be angry with the Roshi vs Jiren stuff. I am sure Toriyama saw that in advance and if he had anything against it he would have said so to Toyo.
Exactly. Given the detail shown here and also in previous interviews, it is clear that Toriyama carefully checks each chapter. Toyotaro is credited for the "Art" in the front cover of the manga while Toriyama is credited for the "story".
I think he also works with the anime's staff so he's not as hands off as we may think he is but they've never given full details on how much involvement he has.
As far was know, Toriyama quasi-micromanages the manga, while he has meetings with the Toei anime staff about future storylines and certain characters and overlooks all of the scripts the writers produce for the anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:50 pm

I wonder if there’s a place to check DBS Manga introductions by toyotaro.
Same as this http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... oductions/
Usually his introductions are kind of extremely humble and they are close to show some negativity , low self steem , being so hard on himself or just that kind of humor that toriyama used on his introductions back in the days.
Sure they show all the time his wish and effort to improve .
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:23 pm

LightBing wrote:One pattern emerges, Mr.Toriyama's prioritizes gags and jokes. From what comes out he's far stricter in these details than storylines where he's even open to moderately important suggestions like Vegetto and SSJG Vegeta.

This scene in particular is much, much better after corrections. Toyotarõ versions is so boring and lifeless by comparison. How I wish Mr.Toriyama still wrote and drawn the manga. :(
No I suspect you wouldn't.

Otherwise you'd get something akin to Jaco the Patrolman, both art and story-wise. Which in and of itself was mediocre at best, nothing like DB in its glory days. Not to mention, the abomination that was DB Minus.

Just because he made the gags in one scene better doesn't mean he would make the manga overall better.

I really wish people would stop running away with the idea that Toriyama would do things a lot better than Toyotaro in general. The plot of Super from U6 vs U7 to Goku Black to the ToP was outlined by him and the ideas are nothing to run home praising.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:45 pm

Rakurai wrote:
LightBing wrote:One pattern emerges, Mr.Toriyama's prioritizes gags and jokes. From what comes out he's far stricter in these details than storylines where he's even open to moderately important suggestions like Vegetto and SSJG Vegeta.

This scene in particular is much, much better after corrections. Toyotarõ versions is so boring and lifeless by comparison. How I wish Mr.Toriyama still wrote and drawn the manga. :(
No I suspect you wouldn't.

Otherwise you'd get something akin to Jaco the Patrolman, both art and story-wise. Which in and of itself was mediocre at best, nothing like DB in its glory days. Not to mention, the abomination that was DB Minus.

Just because he made the gags in one scene better doesn't mean he would make the manga overall better.

I really wish people would stop running away with the idea that Toriyama would do things a lot better than Toyotaro in general. The plot of Super from U6 vs U7 to Goku Black to the ToP was outlined by him and the ideas are nothing to run home praising.
True, Toriyama's writing isn't as good as it used to be, but he'd still bring in some charm and quality artwork to the series, something the manga is severely lacking. A bad, charming manga with good art is better than a soulless bad manga with mediocre art.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:52 pm

Rakurai wrote:
LightBing wrote:One pattern emerges, Mr.Toriyama's prioritizes gags and jokes. From what comes out he's far stricter in these details than storylines where he's even open to moderately important suggestions like Vegetto and SSJG Vegeta.

This scene in particular is much, much better after corrections. Toyotarõ versions is so boring and lifeless by comparison. How I wish Mr.Toriyama still wrote and drawn the manga. :(
No I suspect you wouldn't.

Otherwise you'd get something akin to Jaco the Patrolman, both art and story-wise. Which in and of itself was mediocre at best, nothing like DB in its glory days. Not to mention, the abomination that was DB Minus.

Just because he made the gags in one scene better doesn't mean he would make the manga overall better.

I really wish people would stop running away with the idea that Toriyama would do things a lot better than Toyotaro in general. The plot of Super from U6 vs U7 to Goku Black to the ToP was outlined by him and the ideas are nothing to run home praising.
Don't assume and twist my wishes. I'm not basing this on a small correction. First I found Jaco to be delightful and funny. Minus suffers from not being undeveloped, I like it but I can see why others have problems with it. Calling it an abomination is an exaggeration.

The only creatively poor material where Mr. Toriyama had a more hands on approach was FnF but that's not a manga and it has a specific context. It's not enough to justify Mr.Toriyama "losing it".
Unfortunately the current agreement stops us from knowing the full extent of his influence. The upcoming movie might clear up this a bit.

My biggest reason wishing for Mr.Toriyama to write and draw Super is because he made Dragon Ball and it's amazing. It's as simple as that.

I find Toyotarõ's Zamasu Arc to be worthy of being called Dragon Ball, the current arc needs to finish for me to evaluate. He has a lot of good qualities but he hasn't show me any reason why I wouldn't prefer Mr.Toriyama.

I have nothing against him and I think he's doing decent job with some shinning ideas here and there, less bright in other aspects. That's it, nothing against him. Expecting Mr.Toriyama to write and draw his story better than others shouldn't be an opinion that deserves argument, even if it's just an opinion.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:59 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Rakurai wrote:
LightBing wrote:One pattern emerges, Mr.Toriyama's prioritizes gags and jokes. From what comes out he's far stricter in these details than storylines where he's even open to moderately important suggestions like Vegetto and SSJG Vegeta.

This scene in particular is much, much better after corrections. Toyotarõ versions is so boring and lifeless by comparison. How I wish Mr.Toriyama still wrote and drawn the manga. :(
No I suspect you wouldn't.

Otherwise you'd get something akin to Jaco the Patrolman, both art and story-wise. Which in and of itself was mediocre at best, nothing like DB in its glory days. Not to mention, the abomination that was DB Minus.

Just because he made the gags in one scene better doesn't mean he would make the manga overall better.

I really wish people would stop running away with the idea that Toriyama would do things a lot better than Toyotaro in general. The plot of Super from U6 vs U7 to Goku Black to the ToP was outlined by him and the ideas are nothing to run home praising.
True, Toriyama's writing isn't as good as it used to be, but he'd still bring in some charm and quality artwork to the series, something the manga is severely lacking. A bad, charming manga with good art is better than a soulless bad manga with mediocre art.
Guys forget about it , the best scenario with toriyama being involved is the one we’got right now
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:05 pm

I feel like when some fans say stuff like "Toriyama must have been too busy with the movie to check the manga" and such, its just a coping mechanism of sorts rather than just accepting that certain characters were never intended by Toriyama to play a big role or weren't very important to him.

For example, its seems very clear that Toriyama didn't really care how Anilaza or Kefla were eliminated and was open to the different interpretations of the manga and anime. However if Toei staff or Toyotaro went to him and suggested that Gohan or Vegeta defeat Jiren instead of Goku ,17 and Freeza, I am 100% confident saying he would shoot it down.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:29 pm

IM21 wrote:
sintzu wrote:Does anyone know when we can expect the Toriyama interview that's supposed to be in this volume ??
there is no interview in the volume.
Disappointing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:17 pm

prince212 wrote: Guys forget about it , the best scenario with toriyama being involved is the one we’got right now
Akira Toriyama wrote:
Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Exactly, his time is long past. If he wanted to he’d do it himself. Right now we have someone willing to carry the torch and Toriyama acting as a mentor. It doesn’t get much better than that.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:56 pm

LightBing wrote:
Don't assume and twist my wishes. I'm not basing this on a small correction. First I found Jaco to be delightful and funny. Minus suffers from not being undeveloped, I like it but I can see why others have problems with it. Calling it an abomination is an exaggeration.

The only creatively poor material where Mr. Toriyama had a more hands on approach was FnF but that's not a manga and it has a specific context. It's not enough to justify Mr.Toriyama "losing it".
Unfortunately the current agreement stops us from knowing the full extent of his influence. The upcoming movie might clear up this a bit.

My biggest reason wishing for Mr.Toriyama to write and draw Super is because he made Dragon Ball and it's amazing. It's as simple as that.

I find Toyotarõ's Zamasu Arc to be worthy of being called Dragon Ball, the current arc needs to finish for me to evaluate. He has a lot of good qualities but he hasn't show me any reason why I wouldn't prefer Mr.Toriyama.

I have nothing against him and I think he's doing decent job with some shinning ideas here and there, less bright in other aspects. That's it, nothing against him. Expecting Mr.Toriyama to write and draw his story better than others shouldn't be an opinion that deserves argument, even if it's just an opinion.
Jaco isn't even on the same level of charm as DB, it's not even the same genre as DBZ. If you found it delightful and funny then great and I'm sorry for assuming, but it's more akin to Dr. Slump than DB, and I can say Dr. Slump is genuinely more funny than Jaco because I've read both. Dr. Slump doesn't hold a candle to DB let alone DBZ, which is the main product which has gained international popularity and is a huge commercial success. Not DB, not Dr. Slump and certainly not Jaco. Manga is both story and art, his modern art style wouldn't appeal to most fans and his stories are of the quality that leads to BoG, RoF, and DB Minus nowadays, barring Broly since it is yet to be released. Again, these stories are decent at best if only because of Toei's involvement and the only DB manga story he's released and made alone most recently is frankly shit.

DB Minus is an abomination and I do not exaggerate. It was pointless and ruins a good story that was the original Bardock TV special. It shows nothing new or special about the Saiyans, contradicts the original manga, makes Goku's kind and gentle personality less interesting cause of Gine and soft Bardock, and the tie in to Jaco had zero relevance, hell Grandpa Gohan's appearance in Jaco was irrelevant and nothing but a cameo. The only reason I can see it being made was so it could make Jaco sell better given it has the DB brand and people will gobble DB shit up. Hell Jaco itself contradicts the original manga since Bulma finished up university whereas Bulma met Goku while she was on summer break before going back to school.

So yes I firmly believe Toriyama himself wouldn't make the story better, only worse due to his modern art style which is not fit for DB and his storyboarding which isn't any more interesting or appealing than the DBAF fanfiction I've read from Toyble or even YoungJiJi. Toriyama has been done with DB for a long time now, he's only getting pulled back cause corporate penny pinchers keep asking him to.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Sora Saiyan » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:08 am

Rakurai wrote: Toriyama has been done with DB for a long time now, he's only getting pulled back cause corporate penny pinchers keep asking him to.
I wouldn’t say that. From the interviews I remember around BoG he basically forced himself in, and wanted DB to be portrayed how he believed it should. DB Evolution appears to have influenced his return, as that was a point of note around BoG. Toriyama definitely doesn’t like putting much work in, but he most definitely hasn’t been done with DB for a long time.

He even complained about the Super anime and said in that interview “so it seems that Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can’t leave it alone”. He definitely likes DB enough now, and has stated so.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolySSJL » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:29 am

Do not forget that Dragon Ball original manga is amazing not for Toriyama... it was for its editor: Yū Kondō. Of course Toriyama was pretty good with the development of the history, drawing,... but the real genious here was Yū Kondō. He had the following ideas:

-Saiyans
-The super saiyan
-Raditz and Gohan
-Ozaru Vegeta
-Space travels
-The comeback of the Red Ribbon.
...

Kondō was the editor of Toriyama between the beggining of Piccolo Daimaoh and the ending of the Cell arc. The best part of the entire DB franchiste. It's not coincidence.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Draconic » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:37 am

Are people really starting to shit on Toriyama and his manga for the sake of THIS garbage fire of a manga maybe looking a bit better? What the fuck?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheMikado » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:44 am

Draconic wrote:Are people really starting to shit on Toriyama and his manga for the sake of THIS garbage fire of a manga maybe looking a bit better? What the fuck?
Toriyama is world famous primarily for a very specific portion of his work, and not even his manga.
Specifically the Dragonball “Z” anime which as the user above you points out is primarily surrounding a VERY specific section of his work.

Let’s not act like Toriyama created his works in a vacuum and everything he touched was gold. I enjoy the original Dragonball run but it was nowhere as popular nor remembered. Toriyama really only has the level of world-wide recognition he has today primarily due to the “Z” anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Hawk9211 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:52 am

BrolySSJL wrote:Do not forget that Dragon Ball original manga is amazing not for Toriyama... it was for its editor: Yū Kondō. Of course Toriyama was pretty good with the development of the history, drawing,... but the real genious here was Yū Kondō. He had the following ideas:

-Saiyans
-The super saiyan
-Raditz and Gohan
-Ozaru Vegeta
-Space travels
-The comeback of the Red Ribbon.
...

Kondō was the editor of Toriyama between the beggining of Piccolo Daimaoh and the ending of the Cell arc. The best part of the entire DB franchiste. It's not coincidence.
Oh,look another post filled with ignorance and baseless assumptions.Torishima was his editor till 23 world tournament,kondō over took in Saiyan saga.Some of these ideas are confirmed to be from toriyama.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BrolySSJL » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:00 am

Hawk9211 wrote:
BrolySSJL wrote:Do not forget that Dragon Ball original manga is amazing not for Toriyama... it was for its editor: Yū Kondō. Of course Toriyama was pretty good with the development of the history, drawing,... but the real genious here was Yū Kondō. He had the following ideas:

-Saiyans
-The super saiyan
-Raditz and Gohan
-Ozaru Vegeta
-Space travels
-The comeback of the Red Ribbon.
...

Kondō was the editor of Toriyama between the beggining of Piccolo Daimaoh and the ending of the Cell arc. The best part of the entire DB franchiste. It's not coincidence.
Oh,look another post filled with ignorance and baseless assumptions.Torishima was his editor till 23 world tournament,kondō over took in Saiyan saga.Some of these ideas are confirmed to be from toriyama.
Any sources?

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Y%C5%AB_Kond%C5%8D

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