"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheOne]

How to make 18 even more unlikable than she was in the last episode of the Super anime:

Have her not give a shit about her own brother's sacrifice.

Aside from Toyotaro shitting on 18 as usual, this was an okay chapter. I liked the fight scenes.

There’s always the chance that she knew it wouldn’t destroy him. If Vegeta can survive his own explosion from getting stronger than his Buu saga self, Android 17 can survive a bomb that Gero planted in him when he was much weaker. This one actually makes more sense than Vegeta blowing himself up.

[LightBing]

A rather mediocre chapter.

While I like Vegeta paving his own path, both his power up and speech didn't quite work. Vegeta's ignoring and rejecting Whis teachings, just to make his I'm a lone wolf point is dumb. Toyotarõ could very well have him ponder on what Whis had done for him, his progress while alone and make the decision to go in a different direction solo.

The power up is also akin to Gohan, exaggerated and thoughtless. Yes Saiyans get stronger while they fight but never that much, I guess that's the new normal? The thing is Goku's power up is based on a technique that we got clues of, Vegeta apparently got a new aura but what does that mean? There's no reasonable explanation, it's anime like. At least Vegeta wasn't super behind Goku to make it even more outrageous.

Freeza was pretty good here, likewise for #17. I think #18 knows he didn't actually kill himself. She's the only know who truly knows #17 from the people there, besides there's set up. He steps in after Freeza with a "tactic", I don't think he would call suicide a tactic, then there's him distracting Jiren by talking.

Both Freeza and #17 are trying to win using their brains while Vegeta and Goku using force.

I also enjoyed Jiren's characterization here. Please Toyotarõ don't randomly turn him into a villain attacking the crowd, that was beyond stupid.

[sintzu]

Maybe the people on those other threads aren't as toxic and tiresome as you people coming here month in month out to bitch about a spin off adaption manga you read for free when you could just rewatch the anime or go do something else instead of killing the buzz of the people who do enjoy the manga.

During the Black arc and the build up to this tournament I was one of the few defending the manga for nearly everything it did which resulted in me being called a fanboy but now I'm a toxic buzzkill for calling it out on something I think it did wrong ? Those are 2 very different things so which is it ?

[BrolyKale]

I enjoyed this chapter. I really like how Jiren is handled in the manga, I already liked him in the anime, but he is more appealing in the manga. Vegeta not wanting to go UI is good, I was tired of the "Goku did that, so I can do that too". Freezer being a bastard is always good to see, lewl. And C-17 is cool, just like how he was in the anime.

Now I'm glad they didn't make Toppo a Hakaishin, because it didn't really suit someone who fight for justice. And tbh I wasn't expecting much from him and Dyspo, its pretty obvious that Jiren is the only threat in the battlefield and the most competent fighter.

[Noah]

Another disservice from Toyotaro to our fellow Dragon Ball fans.

It's impressive how this guys keeps trying and no matter what's he do: the story still poor and empty. Freeza outsmarting both Toppo and Dyspo? Goku activating UI on his own? #17 using self-destruct since everyone on U7 knows Shenron took the detonator of his body back in the Cell arc?

Please Toyotaro, do us a favor: get out and stop embarrassing yourself.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I don’t think Vegeta’s power up was SSJBE, probably the state before it. It’s probably more powerful than Goku’s SSJBKK though. Toyotarou drew Vegeta with pupils before this arc started, so i’d say he’ll acheive it agaisn’t Jiren.

You have this picture? I don't remember this

In fact, if this design was the Blue Evolution, Vegeta would have to have darker hair. He was?

[OhHiRenan]

Just like with the anime, this is a section of the Tournament of Power I’m just not interested in. I appreciate that it’s all moving faster in the manga, but I think this is just a fundamentally weak arc at its core. It’s a great concept, but it isn’t as fully realized as it could, or should, have been in either medium. The anime slowed the pace down to a crawl, focusing way too much on the minutiae whereas the manga has been breezing by in order to focus on the meat of the arc, letting potential fights go to waste as a result.

I don’t hate the manga by any means, and still prefer it to the anime as a whole, but the Universe Survival arc has been a bust for me.

[Rakurai]

Really not a fan of the whole "I'll find my own way to get stronger" Vegeta. He and Goku's next level should've been UI, but this effectively shafted him from getting it. At least we don't get a Vegeta with princess eyes, his power-up is just a strengthened SSB much like Goku's earlier Blue power-up.

Like how Toppo and Dyspo were eliminated by the distance between them and Jiren. Kind of a symbolism for Jiren's relationship with the rest of the Pride Troopers. Also fitting ending for Dyspo, trying to be a team player but failing because the lone wolf on his team. Dyspo is strong but he's no solo boss like Toppo who's the GoD candidate and Jiren who's the mortal stronger than a GoD. Stamina also played a critical role in their demise.

Toyo's UI design is badass. The sleek design works wonders here, it's very fitting for a concept like UI. Love it far more than Yamamuro's and certainly Toriyama's.

Overall a good chapter but hampered by Vegeta's pride speech and regression of his character.

Another disservice from Toyotaro to our fellow Dragon Ball fans.

It's impressive how this guys keeps trying and no matter what's he do: the story still poor and empty. Freeza outsmarting both Toppo and Dyspo? Goku activating UI on his own? #17 using self-destruct since everyone on U7 knows Shenron took the detonator of his body back in the Cell arc?

Please Toyotaro, do us a favor: get out and stop embarrassing yourself.

1. Frieza wasn't outsmarting anybody. Toppo and Dyspo were weakened and he took advantage of that.

2. What makes you think Goku was activating UI on his own? Clearly there is a trigger based on the state of mind and it's certainly not the same as that of the anime's whereby it just turns on at the most critical of moments like a plot device.

3. Fighters can detonate on their own without having a bomb. Are you forgetting about Vegeta?

Speak for yourself. It's like you haven't been paying attention to the details of the story at all.

[Noah]

1. Frieza wasn't outsmarting anybody. Toppo and Dyspo were weakened and he took advantage of that.

2. What makes you think Goku was activating UI on his own? Clearly there is a trigger based on the state of mind and it's certainly not the same as that of the anime's whereby it just turns on at the most critical of moments like a plot device.

3. Fighters can detonate on their own without having a bomb. Are you forgetting about Vegeta?

1. That's lame, Dyspo can travel on the speed of light and Toppo is supposed to be Belmod successor. They were eliminated like fodders, I get that Toyotaro is in such a hurry to start drawing Broly, but he doesn't need to rub that on our faces.

2. Well, is a better being a plot device of something the character have no clue about than something that he barely learns and already knows how to use it free.

3. So what? They will go to the same stupid error from the anime? Having #17 faking his own death out of nothing? I thought Toyotaro/Toriyama could think something better than this.

[The gr]

Freeza outsmarting both Toppo and Dyspo? .

I really don't see the problem of Frieza outsmarting two people if anything Frieza toying with them is the best thing in this chapter.

Certainly better than the last two chapter however not as good as the earlier TOP chapter.

While I liked Frieza toying with the pride trooper, I do wish Toppo and Dyspo contributed more in the Top because they feel like fodder, It would have made their betrayal more shocking because I dig the idea of their demise.

I really didn't cared for Vegeta power up, it came out of nowhere and i didn't liked his speech.

Is cool that Omen wasn't a one of thing and I liked the fact that Jiren mentioned his mentor instead of Belhmod.

Overall this chapter was meh.

[Nevaeh]

- Chapter 40-

It may not be SBB Evolution, but Vegeta also having a stronger version of normal SSB here surprised me. I thought that was something from Toei, just like SSB+Kaioken.
Unfortunately the manga being black and white kills all the appealing these forms may have.

Isn't that what CSSB is supposed to be?

[Issei189]

The Aura is different, so it's not normal SSB, but it doesn't have the same design as Anime SSB.E either

Spoiler:

Regular SSB

Spoiler:

[batistabus]

Aside from that, I quite liked this chapter, especially Jiren. I'll get into that more when I have more time.

[LightBing]

Spoiler:

Aside from that, I quite liked this chapter, especially Jiren. I'll get into that more when I have more time.

At this point I think Toyotarõ is doing it on purpose, he must have caught up some of Mr.Toriyama troll inclinations.
Vegeta's initial assault also references his rage boost against Beerus, I think that's about it in terms of "repetition".

[goku the krump dancer]

Chapter wasn't terrible by any stretch I just wish there was more build up to certain things.. I could've swore that more universes were left but I guess I lost track. I Do like how Toyotaro is playing up the dysfunctionality within the Pride Troopers and Just how noble yet extremely cocky Jiren can be.

[Lord Beerus]

Chapter 40 was basically everything I didn't like about the anime's episodes 122 to 129 condensed into 45 pages.

Some random notes/thoughts on the chapter:

- I've always been one of the people that really liked SSJB Evolution, not for its aesthetic, but more so for what it represented for Vegeta's character and his wholesome growth as a person. In the anime, the foundation for Vegeta attaining SSJB Evolution was based on his intense empathy toward others outside of his inner circle -- which also tied into the main prize of winning the Tournament Of Power (something wanted to accomplish prior to the tournament beginning) -- and his effort to forge his own path of strength beyond what Goku is doing.

In the manga, Vegeta attained his SSJB Evolution form because he was upset that Goku attained Ultra Instinct and left him in the dust again. I despise that motivation because I find to be character regression. That's kind of shit that Android/Cell arc Vegeta was doing, and Vegeta grew beyond that nonsense. Also, Vegeta mentioning that he had no master -- completely disregarding the fact that if it weren't for Whis' teachings and training he wouldn't have been able to attain SSJB Evolution -- was ridiculous. Part of Vegeta having Whis as his martial arts tutor (his first martial arts tutor at that) involved him swallowing his pride and accepting that if he was going to keep with Goku, he would need the help of others to do it. Now he's acting like he became as strong as he did without anybody helping him. What horseshit. Awful character writing.

- I don't know what the fuck is going on with Jiren. He starts out the tournament bum rushing through contestants just to help his team, then the story arbitrarily decides he has to be an asshole who doesn't want to help his teammates because at first it's unnecessary to him and now it's because he wants to fight alone. His motivations in battle is really inconsistent.

- #17's self destruction feel completely flat. I wasn't a huge fan of that moment in the anime, but at least the intention behind that moment in the anime was more earnest and palpable because it was in an moment of desperation and a last ditch attempt to protect Goku and Vegeta from Jiren eliminating the two of them along with and #17 at once. Not to mention #17 felt much more rounded as a character leading up to that character beat and felt more integral to the plot, as well the fact he had created a much better dynamic with the main cast before he blew himself up. The lack of any response from #18 in the manga made this moment all the more jarring and inconsequential.

- Dyspo and Toppo getting jobbed out by Freeza was a major disappointment. I mean, Toppo beat SSJB Goku clean, so I would have thought this would lay the foundation for Toppo being a major hurdle to overcome. But nope. Toppo just gets his ass handed to him offscreen and that's the end of it. Not even expecting anything from Dyspo still left me major underwhelmed with how he bowed out of the story.

- I really don't like that Goku can activate Ultra Instinct at will. I seriously takes away any kind of impact the ability originally had, as well the mystique of it, and reduces it to just another power-up like any other SSJ transformation.

- I also don't really care for Jiren hulking up, as it seems redundant give how nothing in the story has been even a remote threat to him. So it just seems like Toyotaro is having the character beat of Jiren powering up in response to Goku tapping into Ultra Instinct again without taking into consideration that the story never gave the implication that Ultra Instinct was even a threat to him in the first place.

- The panelling and composition of the fight scenes was far superior to what we got last month.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Not a bad chapter. Jirens character is one of the main reasons i like this chapter. Vegeta achieving his own ssbe like form was meh to me. For months most of us always assumed cssb was the manga equivalent of ssbkk and ssbe, now it seems that cssb is just the full power of ssb.

[OhHiRenan]

Aside from that, I quite liked this chapter, especially Jiren. I'll get into that more when I have more time.

Here's hoping Toyotaro busts out the big guns for the final fight. He's capable of good choreography. Nowhere near as good as Toriyama, mind you, but still relatively good material when he tries.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Chapter 40 was basically everything I didn't like about the anime's episodes 122 to 129 condensed into 45 pages.

Some random notes/thoughts on the chapter:

- I've always been one of the people that really liked SSJB Evolution, not for its aesthetic, but more so for what it represented for Vegeta's character and his wholesome growth as a person. In the anime, the foundation for Vegeta attaining SSJB Evolution was based on his intense empathy toward others outside of his inner circle -- which also tied into the main prize of winning the Tournament Of Power (something wanted to accomplish prior to the tournament beginning) -- and his effort to forge his own path of strength beyond what Goku is doing.

In the manga, Vegeta attained his SSJB Evolution form because he was upset that Goku attained Ultra Instinct and left him in the dust again. I despise that motivation because I find to be character regression. That's kind of shit that Android/Cell arc Vegeta was doing, and Vegeta grew beyond that nonsense. Also, Vegeta mentioning that he had no master -- completely disregarding the fact that if it weren't for Whis' teachings and training he wouldn't have been able to attain SSJB Evolution -- was ridiculous. Part of Vegeta having Whis as his martial arts tutor (his first martial arts tutor at that) involved him swallowing his pride and accepting that if he was going to keep with Goku, he would need the help of others to do it. Now he's acting like he became as strong as he did without anybody helping him. What horseshit. Awful character writing.

- I don't know what the fuck is going on with Jiren. He starts out the tournament bum rushing through contestants just to help his team, then the story arbitrarily decides he has to be an asshole who doesn't want to help his teammates because at first it's unnecessary to him and now it's because he wants to fight alone. His motivations in battle is really inconsistent.

- #17's self destruction feel completely flat. I wasn't a huge fan of that moment in the anime, but at least the intention behind that moment in the anime was more earnest and palpable because it was in an moment of desperation and a last ditch attempt to protect Goku and Vegeta from Jiren eliminating the two of them along with and #17 at once. Not to mention #17 felt much more rounded as a character leading up to that character beat and felt more integral to the plot, as well the fact he had created a much better dynamic with the main cast before he blew himself up. The lack of any response from #18 in the manga made this moment all the more jarring and inconsequential.

- Dyspo and Toppo getting jobbed out by Freeza was a major disappointment. I mean, Toppo beat SSJB Goku clean, so I would have thought this would lay the foundation for Toppo being a major hurdle to overcome. But nope. Toppo just gets his ass handed to him offscreen and that's the end of it. Not even expecting anything from Dyspo still left me major underwhelmed with how he bowed out of the story.

- I really don't like that Goku can activate Ultra Instinct at will. I seriously takes away any kind of impact the ability originally had, as well the mystique of it, and reduces it to just another power-up like any other SSJ transformation.

- I also don't really care for Jiren hulking up, as it seems redundant give how nothing in the story has been even a remote threat to him. So it just seems like Toyotaro is having the character beat of Jiren powering up in response to Goku tapping into Ultra Instinct again without taking into consideration that the story never gave the implication that Ultra Instinct was even a threat to him in the first place.

- The panelling and composition of the fight scenes was far superior to what we got last month.

The thing with UI now is how is he going to explain it's (seemingly) absence from the movie in his retelling? So far he hasn't portrayed it as some limit breaking form at all. Unless UI being the manga is one of the differences Toriyama talked about.

Toyotaro has been writing a horrible Vegeta for sometime anyway so you're comments don't surprise me. But the Jiren stuff does surprise me as it seemed like he was setting up to go in a different direction with him.

[OhHiRenan]

Dragon Ball Super in general has a poorly written Vegeta. This isn't a Toyotaro exclusive problem. The anime is just as bad in this regard. Both mediums are keeping Vegeta in a weird character limbo where any and all moments of "development" are derivative of beats his arc has already undergone.