Bergamo wrote:Goku is a better martial artist in the 23rd Budokai and he is a better martial artist in DBS chapter 39. Also, to think that Roshi lived for over 200 years or something and has had less fights than Goku is ridiculous.
I disagree about him being a better MA post 23rd Budokai, also, you're merely just speculating (wildly at that) about Roshi's experiences compared to Goku with zero proof or basis behind it.
Miracles wrote:If Goku remembered his teachings, he would of tapped into UI during Whis explanation on it himself. Which resembled his past principles. This was the whole point of Roshi reminding Goku. So it's not a regression or inconsistency but a continued plot point.
This is just poor storytelling, Roshi didn't show anything different than Whis did, nor would he know anything about what Whis (which is different than what Karin taught Goku) taught Goku either, yet when the plot calls for it Goku just does when he remembers he's not a buffoon...? Like I said before, making side characters shine is fine, just don't do it by undermining pre-established lore/hierarchy to push your contrived flawed narrative.
^You didn't prove Goku's character was regressed. You posted an unrelatable image, which is also out of context, talking about teamwork
against Radditz . Trying to compare that to Goku actually needing more power with Ultra Instinct
to beat Jiren just proves how wrong and desperate you are.
The same situation Goku had against Raditz is happening exactly with Jiren as Raditz and Hit standing in for Piccolo only for Goku to go "Nah, I prefer to fight along against overwhelming enemies" when the stakes are far higher than they were with Raditz. teamwork was greatly stressed as important, but here under Toyotaro's pen Goku is just like "Meh, whatever, I'm going to go do me". What's the point?
Miracles wrote:Goku needing more power is NOT a mistake. The WAY he went about it was the problem. It is vintage Goku to risk his body's well being for more power. This is not regression but continuation.
So he trades one path for power for another? Also, its hilarious that Roshi is berating him when the entire purpose and point of his training for Goku and Krillin back then was just that, power increasing, lol. Practice what you preach old man. Saying Kaioken is the wrong way since Kaio's training was the same as before, more strength training and power enhancing moves I'm curious what others think Goku's problem is when he's relying exactly on what his previous teachers (Roshi included) drilled in his head or is Toyotaro so bad he does not remember the core point of DB and likes to pretend he does by writing scenes that contradict original DB in some vain attempt at forced contrived development? I say forced and contrived since if author has nowhere else to take a character besides retreading old grounds to show circular development then yeah...not very good.
One more thing, did King Kai actually say that "Train your body and spirit" line in the original manga? I can't recall it like I can for Korin and Mr. Popo/Kami so did Toyotaro literally make that up for Chapter 39?
"Before one may reach Heaven, they must endure Hell first. Only then will you be able to attain serenity beyond a sea of strife." & "Fear is not a sign of cowardice but the recognition of danger. Those who ignore this basic emotion do so out of vanity and are thus quelled before victory." - Roy Teal Jr.