"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kemuri07 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:34 pm

this guy gets it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:54 pm

Totally Not Mark released a new video detailing Toyotaro's bad panelling and coincidentally used some of my points. I actually compared Toyotaro's panelling with Toriyama's with that same fight with Goku vs. Nappa...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:10 am

I don’t care about what some youtuber has to say. Especially one who thinks the Abridged series did anything better than the original work.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:42 am

That's an awfully minor thing to base such an absolutist opinion on. So what, he pointed out that the abridged series expanded on things like the Androids origins and Krillin's relationship with 18 to an extent, which they did. How does that make his opinion invalid? Or better yet, why does anything have to make anyone's opinion invalid? Whatever happened to just disagreeing with a person?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:55 am

Shaddy wrote:That's an awfully minor thing to base such an absolutist opinion on. So what, he pointed out that the abridged series expanded on things like the Androids origins and Krillin's relationship with 18 to an extent, which they did. How does that make his opinion invalid? Or better yet, why does anything have to make anyone's opinion invalid? Whatever happened to just disagreeing with a person?
He believes Toriyama is absolute and nobody who has ever touched or will touch Dragon Ball can do anything better than him, so his answer is consistent at least. Obtuse and ridiculous, but hey.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:57 am

TKA wrote:I don’t care about what some youtuber has to say. Especially one who thinks the Abridged series did anything better than the original work.
Did it not? Abridged Gero and 16 are so much more interesting than their original counterparts it's not even a contest.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by IM21 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:04 am

Exline wrote:Totally Not Mark released a new video detailing Toyotaro's bad panelling and coincidentally used some of my points. I actually compared Toyotaro's panelling with Toriyama's with that same fight with Goku vs. Nappa...
Well Toriyama said that one of the biggest reason he chose Toyotaro was cause of his panelling so... And yea, Toyo's panelling is nowhere close to Toriyama's but it's still not that bad. The problem is that people like to compare one of the best mangaka or at least action mangaka of all time to Toyotaro.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:16 am

ekrolo2 wrote:Did it not?
Nope.

DBZ Abridged does nothing better than the original. DBZ Abridged is a very good, very painstakingly-made love letter to the franchise, but it is not by any means better than the original. DBZA doesn't exist without the original.

Any idiot can rewrite something, but the creative spark needed to CREATE something from scratch, as well as all the elements needed to come together for that spark to become a fire is not something anyone can make happen.

To even suggest DBZA is better-written in any regard than the original series shows a profound lack of understanding of all the elements that are needed to come together. To suggest that a comedy show made for the internet is better than a time-tested drama show that had to meet standards and practices shows a worrying level of ignorance. I'm sure he did it for the clicks or whatever, but this kind of thinking undersells Akira Toriyama, and unfairly shits on TFS by comparing them to him.

It's not better. It's good in a different way. It's like comparing Deadpool to A Clockwork Orange (but worse since Deadpool is someone's creation from scratch and not a rewrite).
Shaddy wrote:That's an awfully minor thing to base such an absolutist opinion on.
That's not how language works. They're two different sentences. I have a problem with people posting youtube videos as if they're authoritative sources. I find dragonball youtubers to be some of the most ill-sourced, ill-informed and overall low-quality content creators out there (barring some exceptions, like the impeccable TeamFourStar).

I don't care what "Totally Not Mark" thinks, so it's kind of irrelevant to bring him up. Just state the argument he presented.
Doctor. wrote: He believes Toriyama is absolute and nobody who has ever touched or will touch Dragon Ball can do anything better than him, so his answer is consistent at least. Obtuse and ridiculous, but hey.
There aren't enough facepalm emojis in the world.

Don't answer for me, don't guess my stances and don't misrepresent my points.

I said Akira Toriyama's decisions with this franchise are absolute and must be adhered to. It's his creation. He has the right to do with it whatever he wishes, and those who play in his sandbox must adhere to what he laid out; otherwise, don't play in his sandbox and create your own. What's hard to grok about that?

I, then, further elucidated that a fan can choose to like whatever part of the franchise they want and dislike whatever they want, but your preferences as a fan means nothing in the grand scheme of things and absolutely shouldn't be a thing that hinders Toriyama from doing what Toriyama wants.

This will be my last post on this, as it ostensibly has nothing to do with the Dragonball Super manga.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:19 am

I agree with the sentiment that we should leave YouTubers out of this thread. Most of them are low-quality bait, highly opinionated, and contain no more authority on DB than the rest of us here.

You can share a YouTuber's sentiment on the manga and present it as your own but there is no need to relay when one of their videos has been released. We're here to discuss the Super manga, not promote a YouTuber's videos.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:32 am

But since the topic of Toyo's panelling was brought up. I do agree that the reaction panels take up too much unnecessary space. The overall reading flow gets interrupted by too many of them.

He also tends to go a bit overboard with the dialogue. More recently, I saw this panel of Vegeta's solo training recount in Japanese, and let me tell y'all, it was wayyyyy too damn long for a single speech bubble to fit in Japanese. he could've broken it up with some flashbacks of King Vegeta & his space pirate days to make it less tedious to read.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:52 am

I've yet to see an argument regarding the manga from DBtubers that hasn't already been brought up and discussed in this thread extensively. If you feel it's a point worth repeating, that's totally fine, but represent it on your own terms and save the promotional circlejerking for platforms like Twitter.

Thanks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:06 am

Is the Dragon Ball community on Twitter that big for it to be used as a boogeyman so often? It's been invoked at least twice unprovoked in the last few pages. Legitimate question, I don't use the platform.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:04 pm

Rakurai wrote:I saw this panel of Vegeta's solo training recount in Japanese

Yeah that’s insane. The speech bubbles take up 2/3s of that panel. Too much dialogue has always been a problem with this manga, and it’s likely because he has to fit so much into each chapter.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


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You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Batman is out there busting his ass to avenge Goku and you won't even go see him do it?!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:26 pm

Aside from the fact that TNM's humor is really hard to sit through, that video is a waste of time.

1. The title is shameless clickbait. No other way around it. Anyone who takes that approach automatically loses credibility.
2. It's largely a rehash of another popular video he's already made.
3. Toytaro's overuse of paneling is so blatantly obvious if you're at all familiar with the original manga. It's not some deep analytical insight.
4. We've had this conversation multiple times in this thread. The last instance that stands out to me is back in April with Exline leading the charge.
Doctor. wrote:Is the Dragon Ball community on Twitter that big for it to be used as a boogeyman so often? It's been invoked at least twice unprovoked in the last few pages. Legitimate question, I don't use the platform.
Yes, I think it's the most centralized place for "discussion". You get all sorts converging from casuals to DBtubers to Kanzenshuuites. It's much less of a commitment than a forum, and you get a lot more feedback on your individual posts. You can also follow people who create content for the series (Toyotaro, Toei staff, the dub team) and stay up to date with the latest translations via Herms. It's a good place to be if you want to stay in the know, but not a good place to be if you want to have a serious conversation.

I would say I'm slightly addicted to Twitter. It's this crazy feedback loop that seems to amplify everything out of control. I don't like that, and I'm trying to cut back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Waluigiman » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:31 pm

TKA wrote:I don’t care about what some youtuber has to say. Especially one who thinks the Abridged series did anything better than the original work.
Agreed. They are not the ultimate authority and everyone should make their own opinions.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:42 pm

TKA wrote:
That's not how language works. They're two different sentences. I have a problem with people posting youtube videos as if they're authoritative sources. I find dragonball youtubers to be some of the most ill-sourced, ill-informed and overall low-quality content creators out there (barring some exceptions, like the impeccable TeamFourStar).

I don't care what "Totally Not Mark" thinks, so it's kind of irrelevant to bring him up. Just state the argument he presented.
Okay, but I don't think that's what Exline was doing at all. He just said a video came out. Besides the fact that invalidating someone's opinion because they happen to use youtube as a platform is also ridiculous and unnecessarily judgemental (read: several members of this community?), if it really matters so little, why respond to it with such anger and ferocity, like this one dude is such a huge issue? Why not just ignore it and discuss whatever you want to discuss?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nokra » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:24 pm

The problem with the dbs manga is that there are almost no hype/memorable moments compared to the anime. It just feels flat reading through it and waiting for a plot point to be reached then it's on to the next one. The manga also makes the characters both weaker and super incompetent compared to their anime counterparts.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LimitbreakerKrillin » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:40 pm

Nokra wrote:The problem with the dbs manga is that there are almost no hype/memorable moments compared to the anime. It just feels flat reading through it and waiting for a plot point to be reached then it's on to the next one. The manga also makes the characters both weaker and super incompetent compared to their anime counterparts.
I dont know about that, I think the manga version of Goku black arc had lots of hype and momorable moments. Though if just mean the ToP arc specifically, then yeah I can somewhat agree.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:45 pm

“Hype” moments are shallow and what constitutes a moment like that varies wildly from person to person. For example, I consider Merged Zamas and Goku brawling as they take more and more battle damage way cooler than the bloodless, clean fights of the anime.
The Creatives who inspire me: Akira Toriyama, George Lucas, Chris Nolan, J. R. R. Tolkien and Zack Snyder


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You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Batman is out there busting his ass to avenge Goku and you won't even go see him do it?!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:37 pm

TKA wrote:“Hype” moments are shallow and what constitutes a moment like that varies wildly from person to person. For example, I consider Merged Zamas and Goku brawling as they take more and more battle damage way cooler than the bloodless, clean fights of the anime.
does the presence of blood really make a big difference?

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