"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:10 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
kemuri07 wrote:
LightBing wrote: I don't think he did, can't remember. Are you talking about mind-reading in the Namek Arc? Because Goku never had psychic powers outside of anime filler.
I've only watched the anime version of that arc. So I didn't know that it was filler-only material.
You mean that time he read Kuririn's mind?
Or are you referring to that time he sort of ki pushed Freeza near the beginning of the fight?

Either way, both those things happened in the manga...
My English was confusing, mind-reading is in the manga but I don't consider it the psychic powers in the sense we were discussing. Kiai attacks(like the "shout") likewise doesn't enter the psychic powers category.
However in filler Goku did float, I think it was a pyramid, while he was recovering in the hospital after the battle against the Saiyans.

When I think Psychic Powers, it's rock hurling and holding others in place.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:33 pm

LightBing wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
kemuri07 wrote: I've only watched the anime version of that arc. So I didn't know that it was filler-only material.
You mean that time he read Kuririn's mind?
Or are you referring to that time he sort of ki pushed Freeza near the beginning of the fight?

Either way, both those things happened in the manga...
My English was confusing, mind-reading is in the manga but I don't consider it the psychic powers in the sense we were discussing. Kiai attacks(like the "shout") likewise doesn't enter the psychic powers category.
However in filler Goku did float, I think it was a pyramid, while he was recovering in the hospital after the battle against the Saiyans.

When I think Psychic Powers, it's rock hurling and holding others in place.

In the anime, i know Goku floats a cup of water over his head as well as (episode 43 A Friendly Surprise) lifts a pyramid and jumps through it via telekinesis. I'm unsure if he does this in the manga or not. Even though I believe this is a psychic ability, its a bit more specific to telekinesis.

Anyone with a manga available able to see if that's the case?
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeztin » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:39 pm

ssj3kakarot wrote:
LightBing wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: You mean that time he read Kuririn's mind?
Or are you referring to that time he sort of ki pushed Freeza near the beginning of the fight?

Either way, both those things happened in the manga...
My English was confusing, mind-reading is in the manga but I don't consider it the psychic powers in the sense we were discussing. Kiai attacks(like the "shout") likewise doesn't enter the psychic powers category.
However in filler Goku did float, I think it was a pyramid, while he was recovering in the hospital after the battle against the Saiyans.

When I think Psychic Powers, it's rock hurling and holding others in place.

In the anime, i know Goku floats a cup of water over his head as well as (episode 43 A Friendly Surprise) lifts a pyramid and jumps through it via telekinesis. I'm unsure if he does this in the manga or not. Even though I believe this is a psychic ability, its a bit more specific to telekinesis.

Anyone with a manga available able to see if that's the case?
I don’t think a pyramid was ever shown in the manga. No one in the series other than probably Chaouzou (can’t remember how to spell his name, Tenshinhan’s friend) and Freeza, Guildo (ginyu force) ever showed that type of power. I don’t think freeza’s power is that though, Ithink its just using his energy to move objects outside himself. The principle of flying is putting energy under your feet, I don’t see why that can’t be applied to rocks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:48 pm

Man, that spoiler policy needs to be openly stated. Spoiler discussion literally never adds anything positive to the community.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:47 pm

Monthly temporary lock in progress:

Chapter 41 of the Dragon Ball Super manga by Toyotaro will be serialized in the December 2018 issue of Shueisha's V-Jump magazine, due on Japanese newsstands October 20. Viz will simultaneously publish their English translation of the chapter for free on their website that same day.

As in past months, we are temporarily locking this particular discussion thread ahead of its intended publication. Kanzenshuu does not participate in monetary arrangements to receive stolen intellectual property ahead of release, and will not support these activities by proxy with allowing related discussions. We encourage all fans to consume their media in whole, rather than piecemeal through out-of-context selections and dubious control quality, to ensure thoughtful, comprehensive discussion.

Please note that the locking of this thread does not imply or otherwise allow related discussion in alternate threads.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:54 pm

Hey. This chapter was great.

What I liked:

Everything about Jiren. He's not some homicidal maniac intentionally trying to attack the tournament's spectators for no reason, but you still get to see his character unravel in a way that shows him fighting recklessly and without regard for his surroundings. His background should tie into his motivations, so having the reader become aware of his intended wish feels like a more coherent approach. Jiren's personality isn't completely admirable (like his original character concept before the story was fully drafted) nor is it totally contemptible (like in the anime). He's just a flawed antagonist and solid foil to Goku.

Everything about Ultra Instinct. Any technique that emphasizes absolute tranquility and subconscious movement over deliberate thought and emotion needs its design to reflect those aspects; Goku isn't expressionless for the "cool factor", he's expressionless because that's what Ultra Instinct is. It's also mechanically consistent: Jiren couldn't land a clean, unblocked/unevaded hit on UI's perfected state until it was already starting to wear off, indicated visually by Goku's expressions seeping through again. That way the form remains in keeping with how Whis originally described it without totally making it an "insta-win" move. If Goku learned to wield it flawlessly all the time, that'd probably be a real tension killer even in a "lost period" series like this one.

The whole teamwork idea resonates pretty strongly with the themes of the Universe Survival arc and maybe even all of Super, so I'm glad to see the manga committing itself to it. It's not merely a resolution to Goku and Vegeta's absent - or, at best, begrudging - sense of cooperation in the past, it's also a resolution to Universe 7's somewhat troubled teamwork at the beginning of the tournament. And like the anime's final episode, which was actually fantastic, it contrasts nicely with Jiren being a loner. This is good character writing, if a little on-the-nose at times.

What I didn't like:

Still way too many ATATATATATATATA panels at points. Really, that's one of my biggest gripes with Toyotaro as an artist. He's only good at choreography when he wants to be. It somewhat made sense during the part where none of the other competitors could see Goku and Jiren fighting, but even that felt like kind of a missed opportunity.

Overall:

There's something oddly hilarious about having what's probably the best chapter of the entire tournament come right after two lackluster ones. The Universe Survival arc doesn't seem like it'll ever reach the heights of Toyotaro's Future Trunks arc for me, but it's been a great ride nonetheless -- bumps in the road and all. Next chapter is most likely the last one, at least for this arc in particular. I'm excited to see how it ends.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by kudo6000 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:08 pm

While a slight improvement when it comes to Jiren’s backstory in the anime, it really doesn’t make much of a difference. They both have one thing in common; Jiren wants to use the Super DBs to bring back the people/person who is/are most important to him. This time, it’s Jiren’s master..... It’s still stupid. Vegeta practically spoke my mind in this chapter. Jiren wants to bring back his master just to pat him on the head and commend him for being a “good boy.”

I have mixed feelings when it comes to Ultra Instinct. It wasn’t portrayed to be that much of a big deal in the manga as opposed to the anime where every God of Destruction stood in unison and in awe at the mere sight of Goku obtaining it. Sure, there were reactions here, but not as... impactful, I suppose? And that pretty much goes for everything else in this chapter.

I love how Whis (and the over all story) contradicts itself by introducing “Mastered” Ultra Instinct as something Goku has fully wielded, but then it just takes a complete 180 by having Goku revert back to his base form and have it be revealed that he really HASN’T mastered yet. So, it really isn’t “Mastered” Ultra Instinct.... unless Toriyama is suggesting Goku did master it for those few moments he was in it. All in all, really dumb.

Goku and Vegeta haven’t really used team work before this in the manga, which makes it much more fun and interesting to see. It highlights Whis’ (or was it Beerus’?) comment that if Goku and Vegeta were to use combinations more often, they’d be incredible. Sure, the anime did the same, but here it feels more special and apparent, imo.

As far as the action goes, nothing has topped Merged Zamasu vs Goku yet. That was Toyotarou at his peak.

Over all, it was an all right chapter.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:21 pm

Compared to what we've been getting from Toyotaro these past chapters, I actually liked this one. Action was good. While the depiction of UI wasn't as grandiose as the anime's depiction of it (which is fine), UI Goku was actually pretty much invincible and thrashing Jiren around (like we thought it would), unlike the anime where Jiren inexplicably lands multiple hits on UI Goku. In the anime, UI "Omen" was almost taciturn and UI was "chatty". In the manga, it's reversed. Guess I like the manga's depiction over the anime's in that department.

Though, Jiren's wish was much more simplified in the manga. He wants to wish back his master to "tell [him] what a good boy [he is]" like Vegeta put it... the whole reason why his master never approved of Jiren? Because Jiren wouldn't use teamwork. While his wish wasn't as explicit in the anime, it was pretty obvious he was still reeling from the death of his parents (like Batman) and master, rather than the manga (though I didn't like that in the anime his wish wasn't explicitly stated, but one could still guess). Somehow the anime's depiction made it more... interesting? Though neither the manga's nor the anime's depiction of Jiren's intentions was good anyway.

And I guess the whole teamwork bit with Goku and Vegeta was nice.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:34 pm

I really liked this chapter. It might be up there with the opening chapters of the tournament for the best chapter this arc. The action was really good; nice choreography, creative use of angles, little to no unnecessary panels, and good use of space and paneling. The writing was also good; I liked the contrast between Goku and Jiren's fighting styles, and I appreciate that Goku and Vegeta are finally working as a team with perfect coordination, and it ties in organically with Whis' training.

Some minor gripes: Goku is shown to be smug and he's taunting Jiren while he's in Omen. While this wouldn't be a problem if Goku suffered some sort of repercussion for letting his emotions get to him, and using this as the catalyst to 'perfect' UI, he's shown just dodging Jiren's attacks with a cocky grin on his face as Whis states he's 'diving deeper into instinct.' Seems a little incongruous with what Ultra Instinct actually is; obviously not as bad as what the anime did in #130, but still irksome. Makes you wonder what 'unnecessary emotions' are; I'd assume hubris would be an unnecessary emotion, but here it is in display. I still don't care for Jiren's backstory, though it's a bit more interesting here than the anime. The reveal that Gicchin's lesson was about teamwork felt a bit too cheesy, even if fits in thematically with the lesson of the arc.

On a more general note, Jiren really is pathetic in both versions. He'd waste a wish to bring back a person who'd likely be disgusted at the fact that he passed on the opportunity to save millions of lives to resurrect him. This character is a bust.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:54 pm

- Chapter 41-

Good chapter!

I really like the first page.
Despite the homages, UI Goku vs Jiren was fun.

I don't like UI Goku in the manga though. He talks a lot when he should be more "emotionless" and gets skinny for no reason. I thought he would only be skinny until he mastered UI and this was Toyotaro's way of telling the reader that UI Sign was an incomplete version, but seems like that isn't the case and I don't understand why.

I like how Toyotaro is going deeper into Jiren's character. However as a threat, he's not convincing.
In the anime Toei did a great job in making him feel unstoppable, while in the manga he seems to be much weaker.

Goku/Vegeta getting praised for their teamwork thanks to their train with Whis gives it a good sense of conclusion.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by nato25 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:18 pm

Mostly positive vibes from this chapter which is great. I enjoyed it also. I was much more intrigued with Jirens backstory here than in the anime, funny considering this was just words and the anime showed a lot. Felt a lot less generic than a demon attacked my village.

Absolutely loved the payoff of Whis secret team training. We've seen that double sparring thing heaps with Whis but I never knew he was doing it on purpose! I thought he was just too strong for the both of them. Awesome little twist.

Where are 17 and freeza at in the manga again?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:22 pm

Ultra instinct art , movements and build up to the complete form by calm is awesome . Being skinny and not over muscle has sense , it’s a technique, not a power up .
Jiren whereabouts define him perfectly, he can be wrong and probably he will realize about the team work idea that his master was trying to make him understand, but the route he took is the one that make him this huge beast talking about power . Also fits pretty well with the previous chapters regarding masters and students.
So yeah , this arc has some roots that imply team work or trust (anime) , going back I remember when goku denied some team work with Hit ... I know it’s just plot and a build up to gokus ideas of attain u.i , but .. poor guy .
Happy to see a better vegeta here, being with hight levels of trust about team work for taking the win against that monster that jiren is .
one more chapter i have to say how toyo overused Krillin in the benches .... 14 panels with comments... like there is not enough people around to talk .... grand priest or zenos ...
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:40 pm

Honestly loved the chapter. I really preferred how the manga did Ultra Instinct and Jiren. Glad we finally got to see what his wish was.

Like someone else said, the arc had it's ups and downs, but I liked it for what it was in the end. I wonder how the likely ending next month will be.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:40 pm

That chapter was much better than the previous chapters. Still too many reaction panels but there was some good action without trying to cram a dozen panels onto a single page. I am worried Jiren is about to be added to the underwhelming antagonists pile but we'll see what happens next month. I won't be the least bit surprised if he is but 17 and Frieza are still lurking out there so maybe he'll pull a hat trick. Where the hell are those two hiding, anyway? There's not much rubble. :think:

The Vegeta/Goku teamwork was nice, but when was the last time we actually saw them training 2-v-1 with Whis? Have we ever seen that after the Resurrection F manga? Every example I can think of is them fighting each other or going 1-v-1 with Whis or Beerus. Goku hadn't been training at the start of the arc while Vegeta had so it's a little odd that they'd be so on point, imo.

I..uh...can imagine a few people aren't going to take that mention of Mount Paozu too kindly. :?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:45 pm

This chapter definitely felt like an improvement over the past several ones. I appreciate that they actually specified what Jiren’s wish is, and while his wish is ultimately still a selfish one in the grand scheme of things, it’s nice that Jiren doesn’t come across as a straight up asshole here like he did in the anime.

As for UI, I’m not crazy about how arrogant Goku is portrayed as being. Like what others have said, I prefer the idea of Goku more or less being emotionless and quiet when he’s using UI. It’s also a bit disappointing that we didn’t get to see all the Gods standing in unison upon Goku achieving it like in the anime, but that’s not a huge deal.

All in all, not bad.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:55 pm

Well this is the least offensive chapter since the tournament started, but I still wouldn't call it great. Toyotaro's trademark "cram as much shit in there as you can" approach is still woefully present, but there were at least three (maaaaybe four) pages with some room to breathe occasionally. Unfortunately, since every other page is still totally bloated, I think it's more an accident than Toyotaro actively trying to improve. Other than that...I guess I like seeing Vegeta fight alongside Goku without it playing up the tsundere/penis envy act, but everything else was still kinda dull. My eyes just gloss over every panel with excessive speed lines in this arc.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:57 pm

Good chapter with great art.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by 1345521 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:59 pm

A lot of people liked this chapter, I mean: It was decent. The usual characterization, gore content, and art was another 10/10, but the writing and power scailing are meh. Especiailly the power scailing. Plus the ceratvitiy is kinda abysmal, toyotaro is rushing through this so much he's just copying a lot of what the anime did, and just remixing it. So the chapter was okay, but not very exciting. The UI design in the manga is SOOO much better then the anime, though.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:01 pm

I dig Ultra Instinct here but I feel as though both versions were a missed opportunity when it comes to characterization. You guys know that scene of Rock Lee getting back up to fight Gaara even after two of his limbs get crushed? That's kind of what I wish they did with UI: Goku is absolutely nothing but a fighting machine, almost like a zombie or puppet.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:04 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:I dig Ultra Instinct here but I feel as though both versions were a missed opportunity when it comes to characterization. You guys know that scene of Rock Lee getting back up to fight Gaara even after two of his limbs get crushed? That's kind of what I wish they did with UI: Goku is absolutely nothing but a fighting machine, almost like a zombie or puppet.
Gohan vs Goku episode 90. Maybe Gohan gets UI next :lol:

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