"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:09 pm

Doctor. wrote:
I said they're objectively above getting outsped by some random shmucks too afraid to deal with Freeza's empire a few decades ago, which they are.
A few decades ago , saiyans themselfs where afraid to deal with freeza too . Look where we are now .
Unless you only want our heroes to improve , I can’t see any problem with some fast guy with some cool gun joining or evolving his speed in a few decades ....
it’s normal that new characters appear making the feeling of our heroes being vulnerable when a new arc begins until they finish the threats or enemies . I don’t know any other series ( aside of Saitama from O.P.M ) that doesn’t work like that with the main characters , action-fight series talking , of course.
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:20 pm

Doctor. wrote: good writer would work around Goku and Vegeta's retard strength instead of pretending like they're vulnerable weaklings.
How exactly do you propose doing that? In a series where the Galactic tyrant is surpassed by a couple robots, technology is pretty overpowered and it being used to simply knock the BASE Saiyans unconscious is hardly an example of inconsistent/poor writing. They aren't even damaged or hurt in any capacity for that matter. Goku and Vegeta are vulnerable to being unable to breath too, so it is perfectly reasonable that they be vulnerable to something that stuns the nervous system.

This is about as good of an example of a nitpick as they come.
Of course, a good writer wouldn't make Goku and Vegeta this strong so soon after introducing the multiverse concept, but that's a different story entirely.
It's funny you mention that because especially in the manga iteration of the story this is just factually untrue. They have gotten marginally stronger in their Base forms in the manga, just having obscenely powerful God transformations now. So to say "make Goku and Vegeta this strong so soon after introducing the multiverse concept" is just objectively wrong, because thety hardly got any stronger at all.
I literally said "even if they weren't (above getting outsped)" that it's STILL a lazy excuse only because of how often it's used to introduce the next plot point.
I know that's what you said. You said "even if they weren't", but you were simply wrong about the original point that they were.
I said they're objectively above getting outsped by some random shmucks too afraid to deal with Freeza's empire a few decades ago, which they are.
The bolded pretty much disproves your own point. This was DECADES ago, we hardly know that this guy and his stun gun was around at the same time as Freeza and his empire. In fact, we have absolutely no idea if that is the case.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:34 pm

Doctor. wrote: I said they're objectively above getting outsped by some random shmucks too afraid to deal with Freeza's empire a few decades ago, which they are.
Do Goku and Vegeta have an entire army at their disposal like Freeza did? Are they so strong in base that someone capable of (at best) outspeeding them could single-handedly overcome said army when, at least in the manga, they're not really much stronger than their explicitly-weaker-than-Freeza BoG selves? Do we know if Merus was around, or at least employed within the ranks of the Galactic Patrol, during Freeza's reign? Do we know if the Galactic Patrol's technology was as advanced multiple decades ago as it is in the current arc?

If the answer to these questions is "no" (and spoiler alert: it's actually a resounding no) then no, they're objectively not above that at all. You'd have a point only if we were talking about their transformed states.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:06 pm

fexus wrote:We are comparing it to the anime which did the ToP much better.
Stating your point is not the same as proving it.
fexus wrote:The manga while I can say is more the "thinking" man dragon ball.
You said it, not me.
fexus wrote:The anime is the one that people would likely like more. The one that is more likely to be remembered.
Anime has a much wider reach than manga. That is not in any way a reflection of quality.
fexus wrote:Aniraza
I watched the anime. The animation when No. 18 took him down was cool. The story did nothing for me. At its best, the DBS anime is an enjoyable spectacle...aside from episode 131, which was awesome in different ways from the manga.
fexus wrote:The whole scene was treated like a joke. A horribly made one at that.
That scene was meant to be more chaotic than funny. If you found it insulting, it's only because you went into it with expectations from the anime.
fexus wrote:Maybe Kuririn have some hidden power no one knows about right? Oh maybe he learn UI like Roshi.

It's also likely that the humans are never going to get an arc about themselves ever again, so wanting them as much as possible in an arc isn't a ridiculous request. What you want is basically have the humans be gone for the rest of every arc ever. Because they are not needed. They will never be needed than.
If Kuririn had a role that was in line with his character, shared a new side of him, was quirky, or was funny, that'd be just fine. Just doing more things on screen is not inherently better.

There are more appropriate and satisfying roles for the earthling characters besides fighting. They can be smart. They can be funny. They can be wise. They can do something unexpected. I much prefer Kuririn delivering great gags than going through a generic fighting loop.
fexus wrote:but the sense of Dragon Ball just isn't there anymore. The anime on the other hand manage to retain that sense of feeling.
It's the exact opposite. Not only is Toriyama's essence much more palpable in the manga (both due to Toyotaro's obsession with living up to his idol and Toriyama's direct contributions in terms of script and art), but Toei's version is so disjointed with different writers trying to tell different stories that you end up with a muddled mess of false promises and dead ends.
fexus wrote:In service doesn't justify the bad treatment given to Kuririn.
Kuririn's gags with Ribrianne were the funniest parts of the arc. Genuinely funny. Funny in the way that feels like Toriyama wrote them (because he contributed heavily). Do you disagree?
fexus wrote:If you were to show the average fan how Kuririn is treated in the anime and manga, I can assure you people would absolutely like the anime way more.
The majority of English-speaking Dragon Ball fans think the DBZ dub with the Faulconer score is the optimal Dragon Ball viewing experience. I'm not going there.
alakazam^ wrote:Kuririn also disqualified contestants,

showed the audience they should pay attention to their surroundings in a setting like that.
Showing up and throwing out a few attacks for the sake of checking the "Kuririn did something" box is not enough for me.

We don't need to be shown that turning your back to 70 hostile enemies, throwing up the victory sign, and talking to the spectators in a battle royale is a bad idea.
Doctor. wrote:I said they're objectively above getting outsped by some random shmucks too afraid to deal with Freeza's empire a few decades ago, which they are.
Again, we know virtually nothing about this guy. He could be an artificial human. He could be a time manipulator. He could have a paralysis ability. They made it a point to show how fast he was 3 times in half a chapter, and the final time Vegeta was already aware of it. He could be the fastest person in existence, but if he's not strong enough to physically wound Freeza (who has a body so durable that he can survive being cut in pieces), he wouldn't be able to stop him. Maybe his suit makes him fast, and maybe that's why he's the only character with stripes along the side of his uniform. Jaco has shoes that make him fly, so why not? Maybe his movements didn't trigger a reaction from the Saiyans because he didn't have killing intent, or any ki at all.

Maybe it won't get explained, but it's too damn soon to take such a strong stance on it. I wonder if people reacted this way when Trunks first showed up in the manga and killed Freeza.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:17 pm

Marlowe89 wrote: Do we know if Merus was around, or at least employed within the ranks of the Galactic Patrol, during Freeza's reign? Do we know if the Galactic Patrol's technology was as advanced multiple decades ago as it is in the current arc?
This pretty much sums it up well. Freeza's reign was decades ago and we have absolutely no idea if Merus was part of the ranks of the Galactic Patrol at the time or if he had access to this technology capable of knocking our Saiyans unconscious back during the time in question.
batistabus wrote: If Kuririn had a role that was in line with his character, shared a new side of him, was quirky, or was funny, that'd be just fine.
Literally all of the above happened in the anime adaptation of the story. Not sure how this helps your case.

But, this isn't an anime vs manga thread and I don't see why we need to constantly make it that way.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:28 pm

PFM18 wrote:Literally all of the above happened in the anime adaptation of the story. Not sure how this helps your case.
I don't agree at all.
PFM18 wrote:But, this isn't an anime vs manga thread and I don't see why we need to constantly make it that way.
Because it's impossible to talk about the DBS manga while pretending that the anime doesn't exist. They're both takes on the story I really care about: Toriyama's vision. I feel the manga consistently delivers on that vision in a way that preserves things I like about Toriyama's Dragon Ball much better than the anime. If you're not interested in bringing up the anime in this thread, you're free not to.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:34 pm

I'm not so sure Goku can really sense God ki. Chapter 29 Gokus says to Toppo " I can't sense your power just like the Gods behind us. But I can tell how incredibly strong you are." The line just seems odd. Can anyone offer in explanation or other manga dialog where Goku says he can sense it. Maybe Toppo doesn't have normal ki?

Also in chapter 29. Goku is utterly amazed at the battle of all the Gods of Destruction. So much so that he says things like " their strength is mind blowing," " To be honest, i can't even figure out whos fighting who anymore," " their battle was too intense to comprehend, ours wont be anything like that!"

But then later, the moth-ball God says that SSG Goku and Toppo are already fighting at the level of the Gods. Why would Goku be so shocked about the Battle Royal of the Gods and their mind blowing strength if he too had that strength?

Not a huge deal, the chapter didn't seem to sit well with me after I read it again.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:35 pm

batistabus wrote:I don't agree at all.
If you aren't seeing it, I can't help but wonder if you are trying not to.
Because it's impossible to talk about the DBS manga while pretending that the anime doesn't exist. They're both takes on the story I really care about: Toriyama's vision. I feel the manga consistently delivers on that vision in a way that preserves things I like about Toriyama's Dragon Ball much better than the anime. If you're not interested in bringing up the anime in this thread, you're free not to.
We have other threads for the expressed purpose of discussing how the anime compares to the manga. If we do that in this thread, not only does it render the other thread(s) redundant, but it clogs up the thread with the endless anime vs manga debates and we don't actually get to ya know, discuss the manga in the official manga discussion thread.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:40 pm

PFM18 wrote:If you aren't seeing it, I can't help but wonder if you are trying not to.
I eagerly watched the DBS anime every week as it aired in Japan. Despite how much I prefer the manga, I still found it entertaining. I conditioned myself to simply ignore things I didn't like so I could just sit back end enjoy it more. I did not enjoy Kuririn's role in the anime's Universe Survival Arc.
PFM18 wrote:We have other threads for the expressed purpose of discussing how the anime compares to the manga. If we do that in this thread, not only does it render the other thread(s) redundant, but it clogs up the thread with the endless anime vs manga debates and we don't actually get to ya know, discuss the manga in the official manga discussion thread.
I do think the other thread is redundant. We're not just talking about anime vs manga; we're specifically talking about the Tournament of Power, which just ended in the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:56 pm

Doctor. wrote: They objectively are, but even if they weren't, it's more than tiresome at this point how "being caught off-guard" is used as an (increasingly lazy) excuse for whatever new plot point Toriyama, Toei and Toyotaro want to cook up.
Yeah, I've gotta agree with this. We saw people "caught off guard" multiple times in the original manga, it didn't make them vulnerable to a ring laser or a taser.

Also Merus's design is terrible.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Nov 20, 2018 9:59 pm

The design of the escaped prisoner has been revealed on the V-Jump website.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:03 pm

That's certainly a less-conventional design for an arc villain (I mean, aside from the lines coming down from the eyes, we seem to see a lot of those). He's dressed in big ol' rags by the looks of it. I kind of hope that's to mask the fact that he's not actually all that muscular and has a way of fucking with people in ways other than punchy-punchy-fight-fight, but I also kind of know that's expecting a lot more from this manga, and even Dragon Ball as a whole, than is probably wise.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:08 pm

batistabus wrote:The design of the escaped prisoner has been revealed on the V-Jump website.
Wait is this a joke?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emi_b7 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:11 pm

Another pic:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:13 pm

PFM18 wrote:Wait is this a joke?
Nope. There's another image of him here, although it's mostly grayed out.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OhHiRenan » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:13 pm

Well, he looks better than Jiren which is really all the praise I can toss his way. I don’t know what is is, but something about his design feels overwhelmingly unlike Dragon Ball.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RedHeat » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:20 pm

OhHiRenan wrote:Well, he looks better than Jiren which is really all the praise I can toss his way. I don’t know what is is, but something about his design feels overwhelmingly unlike Dragon Ball.
Looks kinda like a Blue Dragon or Dragon Quest character, maybe.
Feels over Reals.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:21 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Wait is this a joke?
Nope. There's another image of him here, although it's mostly grayed out.
Not sure how I feel about that design. My initial reaction was it being "fake news" but he doesnt look like a fighter ,this could get interesting.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:23 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Marlowe89 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:Wait is this a joke?
Nope. There's another image of him here, although it's mostly grayed out.
Not sure how I feel about that design. My initial reaction was it being "fake news" but he doesnt look like a fighter ,this could get interesting.
Same here . Wow . I need it in action and without colors, honestly for now I’m in shock :crazy:
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:26 pm

PFM18 wrote:
batistabus wrote:The design of the escaped prisoner has been revealed on the V-Jump website.
Wait is this a joke?

I can see it now! He will be accompanied by 2 more billy goats gruff! And they dispise people trespassing over their land! No more trip trapping over our bridge!
" I swear on that faith I can never back down now" - Goku

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