"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[PFM18]

Thing is that Fat Buu is in the original DBZ manga in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. Hence, if Dai Kaioshin is extracted, then Fat Buu will not be him anymore. That would actually create a contradiction. I find it hard to believe they need the Dai Kaioshin's help. The Elder Kaioshin is the 15th generation Kaioshin; he should be older than Dai Kaioshin. They should just ask him for help.

End of Z/28th Tenkaichi Budokai are thoroughly contradicted already so this wouldn't really change anything other than maybe "EoZ is MORE contradicted now!"

[dbgtFO]

So has Grand Supreme Kai been inside Buu this whole time? What was it , over 5 million years now? You'd think he'd been assimilated by now
If that is the case, then what about South Supreme Kai? Also dormant inside Buu?

Doesn't it kind of contradict Z? 'cause when Goku and Vegeta were inside Buu they didn't see Grand there, only the boys, Piccolo and Buu's good self. I guess Buu could have kept Grand (and South) in a different place inside his body...

Goku and Vegeta were inside Super Buu. The Kaioshin are inside Fat Buu.
And yeah hopefully the South and Great Kaioshin have been completely assimilated by Fat Buu.
I believe that would make the most sense, but we'll find out soon enough, I suspect.

[mahakaishin1991]

Ho about instead of tearing the kais out of Buu, he learns to manifest them as part of his persona? so south or grand kai can take over and shape his body accordingly to their personality and abilities?

Great lords of lords slumbers within Majin Boo , MErus said , so they need to awake him ... when the first form of buu we knew had the conflict with the evil part , the evil part was expelled and the good one kept his form , that somehow could say that the great lord of lords influence is huge , as we can see in his body shape too .
All this make me think that no one is gonna be expelled and what you said is a real possibility with or without shaping bodies.
Very intriguing to know what’s gonna happen about it

I'm not sure if you understood me. i understand how buu absorbed them and that they are asleep. My point is, seperating them from Buu may turn him into something more akin to kid buu. Perhaps as a way around it the Daikaihoh will take over and he will adapt his body to correlate, like how Buu can change shape at will

[mahakaishin1991]

So has Grand Supreme Kai been inside Buu this whole time? What was it , over 5 million years now? You'd think he'd been assimilated by now
If that is the case, then what about South Supreme Kai? Also dormant inside Buu?

Doesn't it kind of contradict Z? 'cause when Goku and Vegeta were inside Buu they didn't see Grand there, only the boys, Piccolo and Buu's good self. I guess Buu could have kept Grand (and South) in a different place inside his body...

Goku and Vegeta were inside Super Buu. The Kaioshin are inside Fat Buu.
And yeah hopefully the South and Great Kaioshin have been completely assimilated by Fat Buu.
I believe that would make the most sense, but we'll find out soon enough, I suspect.

For all we know he kept them seperate from the others, but I find it odd we didnt see them anyway

[shadowfox87]

End of Z/28th Tenkaichi Budokai are thoroughly contradicted already so this wouldn't really change anything other than maybe "EoZ is MORE contradicted now!"

Which contradiction are you referring to? The one where Goku says he hasn't seen Bulma for 5 years? That can still fit. It's Age 780 right now in Super. 780, 781, 782, 783, and 784 - that's 5 years. Since the Tenkaichi Budokai occurs in May, Goku may be simply counting the 5 months that have passed in the current year and rounding up. They can also just make it where they do the whole Goku is dumb and can't count or that Goku forgot a year since he's been training with Uub, time flew by. They can also just do a retcon.

[Melkaniator]

Besides the "not as epic as the last anime fight" this end it's better.

No Zen-Oh ridiculous decision on "selfish wish" no unexplained #17's self-destruction, no "are you sure about choosing a boat over universes?" from #18, no "non-exhausted Jiren evading attacks from base Vegeta and taking lotta time to eliminate eliminate his weak ass.

End of Z/28th Tenkaichi Budokai are thoroughly contradicted already so this wouldn't really change anything other than maybe "EoZ is MORE contradicted now!"

Which contradiction are you referring to?

It depends.

If we're talking manga (which of course it's what the thread's about) may not be that much, but if it's from anime, the contradictions are way more.

They can also just do a retcon.

They might since they suck at writing.

[Noah]

End of Z/28th Tenkaichi Budokai are thoroughly contradicted already so this wouldn't really change anything other than maybe "EoZ is MORE contradicted now!"

Exactly. The problems is that Super pretends to be a sequel in between chapters of the original story, which of course would bring much trouble, but is not like they should care to keep EoZ the way it is... Just introduce a new version of the epilogue, the manga will remain untouchable anyway.

Which contradiction are you referring to? The one where Goku says he hasn't seen Bulma for 5 years?

How about... "10 years of peace"?

Yeah, but you missed my point... Sheep Man doesn't look weak as Monaka, actually he looks tough! My problem is considering this series is about power creep, this guy to be considered problem enough to both Goku and Vegeta has at least to be strong as Jiren or Broly and that's annoying.

They need the help of Grand Supreme Kai to defeat him, so it's pretty clear he's not the physical type but has magical/mystic powers.

Well, I wouldn't say it's clear, but if he's a character like Babidi: not physically strong but has with incredible powerful sorcery, that could be more interesting.

[superfan2024]

Thing is that Fat Buu is in the original DBZ manga in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. Hence, if Dai Kaioshin is extracted, then Fat Buu will not be him anymore. That would actually create a contradiction. I find it hard to believe they need the Dai Kaioshin's help. The Elder Kaioshin is the 15th generation Kaioshin; he should be older than Dai Kaioshin. They should just ask him for help.

End of Z/28th Tenkaichi Budokai are thoroughly contradicted already so this wouldn't really change anything other than maybe "EoZ is MORE contradicted now!"

In what way has EoZ been contradicted?

[Son-Kakaroto]

Thing is that Fat Buu is in the original DBZ manga in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai. Hence, if Dai Kaioshin is extracted, then Fat Buu will not be him anymore. That would actually create a contradiction. I find it hard to believe they need the Dai Kaioshin's help. The Elder Kaioshin is the 15th generation Kaioshin; he should be older than Dai Kaioshin. They should just ask him for help.

End of Z/28th Tenkaichi Budokai are thoroughly contradicted already so this wouldn't really change anything other than maybe "EoZ is MORE contradicted now!"

In what way has EoZ been contradicted?

age of pan/5 years since goku has seen bulma. In one thoery, either we haven't reached the 5 year time after buu - but that would make pan too old, or we are 7 years already after buu which contradicts what bulma said, since eoz would have to happen in 3 more years.

[PFM18]

End of Z/28th Tenkaichi Budokai are thoroughly contradicted already so this wouldn't really change anything other than maybe "EoZ is MORE contradicted now!"

Which contradiction are you referring to? The one where Goku says he hasn't seen Bulma for 5 years? That can still fit. It's Age 780 right now in Super. 780, 781, 782, 783, and 784 - that's 5 years. Since the Tenkaichi Budokai occurs in May, Goku may be simply counting the 5 months that have passed in the current year and rounding up. They can also just make it where they do the whole Goku is dumb and can't count or that Goku forgot a year since he's been training with Uub, time flew by. They can also just do a retcon.

Bra is 3 during EoZ, and she was born right before the ToP. We are 3 years away from EoZ during the ToP and Bulma says she hasn't seen Bulma in 3 years. That's a contradiction. It also stated in EoZ that it was after "10 years of peace" which is also obviously contradicted. At this point they would be stupid not to retcon EoZ.

Exactly. The problems is that Super pretends to be a sequel in between chapters of the original story, which of course would bring much trouble, but is not like they should care to keep EoZ the way it is... Just introduce a new version of the epilogue, the manga will remain untouchable anyway.

Right. They should not try to keep EoZ intact considering that it used to operate under the pretense that absolutely nothing happened in the 10 years from Buu to EoZ, but now we literally have SEVEN story arcs in between the Buu arc and EoZ.

If we're talking manga (which of course it's what the thread's about) may not be that much, but if it's from anime, the contradictions are way more.

Not at all. Both the manga and anime thoroughly contradict EoZ.

[prince212]

. It also stated in EoZ that it was after "10 years of peace" which is also obviously contradicted.

That is not stated ,talking about the manga . Implied may be , but not stated .

[PFM18]

. It also stated in EoZ that it was after "10 years of peace" which is also obviously contradicted.

That is not stated ,talking about the manga . Implied may be , but not stated .

Are you sure? I believe it was mentioned in the manga, and at the very least if it wasn't it was heavily implied. Either way though, EoZ is already contradicted so we shouldn't be concerning ourselves with whether this new story will contradict EoZ. Again, they would be dumb not to redo EoZ.

Buu can be the same character on super , but he did nothing but sleep .
Buu all forms did lots of things , genocides , internal conflicts and lots of things like they answered you in previous posts , totally non bored my friend

Obviously he doesn't do much in Super, but the point was that they claimed that Super limits his personality when in reality his personality is identical to what it was in the Buu arc where he left off.

[Miracles]

Does anyone else feel like Toriyama changed his mind halfway through the ToP? A big deal was made of the fact that Jiren was the one mortal who even the Gods of Destruction were powerless against, and how Goku needed to master the technique that was beyond the Destroyers to have a chance against him. When they finally clashed against each other, Beerus admitted in a bittersweet tone that Goku was incredible, seemingly accepting that he had been surpassed, with the anime version making this particularly clear when it had Goku and Jiren punching each other set to music where the singer screams about how even the gods are in awe. Then it has them stand up respectfully, acknowledging the fight.

But as of the latest arc, Goku claims he hasn't pulled off Ultra Instinct even once since Jiren knocked him out of it. He doesn't use it in the Broly movie either. And in both the Broly arc and the La Cabra arc, Beerus is still acting like the same smug prick and Goku is still chasing his tail. What was even the point of the ToP and Ultra Instinct if everything was going to be reset?

There is a problem, Jiren being above all gods and Goku surpassing Beerus is nothing but fiction. It wasn't stated anywhere in the anime or manga.
Neither was Ultra Instinct stated to be "above the gods" but was stated to be "the state of the gods." There is no reset but lack of comprehension from the fans.

[prince212]

. It also stated in EoZ that it was after "10 years of peace" which is also obviously contradicted.

That is not stated ,talking about the manga . Implied may be , but not stated .

Are you sure? I believe it was mentioned in the manga, and at the very least if it wasn't it was heavily implied. Either way though, EoZ is already contradicted so we shouldn't be concerning ourselves with whether this new story will contradict EoZ. Again, they would be dumb not to redo EoZ.

Yes I’m sure . Yes there’s contradictions ( pan 4 years age and bulma and goku 5 years not seeing each other )

Buu can be the same character on super , but he did nothing but sleep .
Buu all forms did lots of things , genocides , internal conflicts and lots of things like they answered you in previous posts , totally non bored my friend

Obviously he doesn't do much in Super, but the point was that they claimed that Super limits his personality when in reality his personality is identical to what it was in the Buu arc where he left off.

Just told you that I.m.o buu is not bored like you said .

[RandomGuy96]

Does anyone else feel like Toriyama changed his mind halfway through the ToP? A big deal was made of the fact that Jiren was the one mortal who even the Gods of Destruction were powerless against, and how Goku needed to master the technique that was beyond the Destroyers to have a chance against him. When they finally clashed against each other, Beerus admitted in a bittersweet tone that Goku was incredible, seemingly accepting that he had been surpassed, with the anime version making this particularly clear when it had Goku and Jiren punching each other set to music where the singer screams about how even the gods are in awe. Then it has them stand up respectfully, acknowledging the fight.

But as of the latest arc, Goku claims he hasn't pulled off Ultra Instinct even once since Jiren knocked him out of it. He doesn't use it in the Broly movie either. And in both the Broly arc and the La Cabra arc, Beerus is still acting like the same smug prick and Goku is still chasing his tail. What was even the point of the ToP and Ultra Instinct if everything was going to be reset?

There is a problem, Jiren being above all gods and Goku surpassing Beerus is nothing but fiction. It wasn't stated anywhere in the anime or manga.

Nope.


This statement would include Whis's power when he knocked out a raging Beerus with one hit. It's established early on that Goku and Vegeta can read his energy too.

He's not even anywhere close to full power at the point he's stated to surpass the level of the Gods of Destruction in general:

Goku would annihilate Beerus with UI, that's the entire reason the power-up was written out.

As for the manga, we're directly told that Jiren is stronger than Belmond, and we directly see that Belmond outmatches Beerus and the other ten gods combined in a direct fight:


Belmond was able to paralyze the other GoDs with his ki attack and pressure them all at the same time with a barrage; it was also shown that his attacks were potent enough to easily slice through their flesh (as demonstrated when one cut off Rumshii's ear), to the point that Iwne feared he would kill all of them. This is notable because as we see in the giant free-for-all melee later, Beerus is negligibly stronger than the other GoDs, if he is at all (he ends up injured and exhausted to the point he can barely stand, despite not having taken injuries going in to the melee like Rumshii or Liquiir). The only GoD that was able to break out of Belmond's energy spheres was Liquiir, not Beerus, and Liquiir was totally unable to damage Belmond even with his strongest barrage which intimidated the other GoDs.

[Hellspawn28]

I'm going to bet that the new arc in the manga won't be adapted and the anime probably be won't be back. They may keep Super going as both as a manga and movies.

[shadowfox87]

age of pan/5 years since goku has seen bulma. In one thoery, either we haven't reached the 5 year time after buu - but that would make pan too old, or we are 7 years already after buu which contradicts what bulma said, since eoz would have to happen in 3 more years.

Pan was born before Revival of F sometime in Age 779, after the Battle of Gods. We have no idea what month. It is stated by the Tournament Announcer in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai that Pan is four years old. At that time, the Age is 784. Hence, we would think that 784-779 = 5 years not 4. However, the Tenkaichi Budokai occurs in May of the year. Hence, if Pan's birthday is before May, then she's technically still four years old. The same thing goes with the Goku haven't "visited" Bulma for 5 years. It may be not a full 5 years, but Goku could be rounding up 4.5 years.

Bra is 3 during EoZ, and she was born right before the ToP. We are 3 years away from EoZ during the ToP and Bulma says she hasn't seen Bulma in 3 years. That's a contradiction. It also stated in EoZ that it was after "10 years of peace" which is also obviously contradicted. At this point they would be stupid not to retcon EoZ.

Where does it say in the original DB/DBZ manga that Bra is 3 years at the time of the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai? I read the manga and there's no mention of Bra's age at all. Do you mean Pan like the above guy? Also, nowhere does the manga say "10 years of peace" either. The narrator says "10 years later" in Chapter 518. Then in Chapter 519, Goku and Vegeta discuss how it's been hard to raise Goten and Trunks. Goku then responds, "Yea but that just means the world's at peace" which also doesn't mean "10 years of peace". I also don't know what you mean by "Bulma says she hasn't seen Bulma in 3 years" - I'm guessing there is a typo somewhere.

[prince212]

age of pan/5 years since goku has seen bulma. In one thoery, either we haven't reached the 5 year time after buu - but that would make pan too old, or we are 7 years already after buu which contradicts what bulma said, since eoz would have to happen in 3 more years.

Pan was born before Revival of F sometime in Age 779, after the Battle of Gods. We have no idea what month. It is stated by the Tournament Announcer in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai that Pan is four years old. At that time, the Age is 784. Hence, we would think that 784-779 = 5 years not 4. However, the Tenkaichi Budokai occurs in May of the year. Hence, if Pan's birthday is before May, then she's technically still four years old. The same thing goes with the Goku haven't "visited" Bulma for 5 years. It may be not a full 5 years, but Goku could be rounding up 4.5 years.
.

How do you guys interpreted chapter 31 of super , where it’s said that 10 years ago Satan defeat cell and seven years later buu.
Is it not telling us that we are just 3 years after killing buu meaning still 7 years to EOZ ?
Super Manga didn’t say time that passed between buu and B.o.G....

[shadowfox87]

How do you guys interpreted chapter 31 of super , where it’s said that 10 years ago Satan defeat cell and seven years later buu.
Is it not telling us that we are just 3 years after killing buu meaning still 7 years to EOZ ?
Super Manga didn’t say time that passed between buu and B.o.G....

The Super Manga didn't but it was stated in the the “World of Dragon Ball Tour” exhibition in Japan on 2013 that Battle of Gods starts four years after the defeat of Buu. In Chapter 31 of the DBS Manga, Satan says that it was over 10 years ago that he defeated Cell. The Buu Saga is 7 years after Cell, and Battle of Gods is four years after the defeat of Buu. Satan is also saying that line in Age 780, which is 6 years after the defeat of Buu. So 7+6=13 years, so yes it's over 10 years ago.So Satan is correct. We are four years to EoZ.

[prince212]

How do you guys interpreted chapter 31 of super , where it’s said that 10 years ago Satan defeat cell and seven years later buu.
Is it not telling us that we are just 3 years after killing buu meaning still 7 years to EOZ ?
Super Manga didn’t say time that passed between buu and B.o.G....

The Super Manga didn't but it was stated in the the “World of Dragon Ball Tour” exhibition in Japan on 2013 that Battle of Gods starts four years after the defeat of Buu. In Chapter 31 of the DBS Manga, Satan says that it was over 10 years ago that he defeated Cell. The Buu Saga is 7 years after Cell, and Battle of Gods is four years after the defeat of Buu, 7+4=11 years, so yes it's over 10 years ago. Satan is correct. We are four years to EoZ.

Ok so ..do we still have more than 6 years to E.o.z , right ?