"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[AnimeNation101]

So far, all we’ve seen is telekinesis and genki absorption. Lets hope Toyo can either come up with or even taken unique spells and magical abilities from other popcultures to make Moro a really badass mage.

[Lord Frieza]

So far, all we’ve seen is telekinesis and genki absorption. Lets hope Toyo can either come up with or even taken unique spells and magical abilities from other popcultures to make Moro a really badass mage.

Shouldn’t be all that hard. Just crack open a d&d magic rule book and go to the high tier spell pages.

[Marlowe89]

Eliminating 4 universes, obviously to most, made it come off as Toyo being lazy and just getting rid of 4 universe right off the bat to make the Tournament go by faster or because he was too lazy to give some of those 4 universes more attenaion.

Did you actually bother to read the posts I'd linked to?

Background characters are just that -- background characters. They're not supposed to be given "more attention", if any at all, because their roles dictate that they serve the characters that matter to the story; characters that were set up as the focal point from the beginning. The battle royale isn't a plot point, it's the setting. The setting only matters insofar as it serves its story and characters, which it did.

All three of the universes with plot significance had multiple chapters allocated to their development, which constituted more focused pacing. Giving undeserved screentime to secondary characters results in dragged-out pacing, which exponentially hurts the flow of the narrative. Watching random action figures pummel each other for months on end doesn't make for a concise story, and stories aren't defined by how lengthy its fights are. If a brisk 48-minute battle royale doesn't consist of constant sidelining as a battle royale should, what you're getting is lipservice anyway.

Again, I'd recommend going back and reading the discussion about this chapter after it was released. Several posters, including myself, break this down fairly well.

[Zamasu55]

They fought Black by the third episode of the Black arc, they fought the Androids pretty much immediately after they were born, Raditz was fought immediately, etc. That doesn't mean it's rushed when it's clearly just a showcase of what the villain can do before the heroes are forced to retreat

Yeah, but Black, the androids and Raditz were not the main villains of the arc.

Black was the main villain of the arc. 17 and 18 were also the main villains at the time

No, Black wasn't. Fused Zamasu is the main villain pf the Future Trunks arc.

[AnimeNation101]

So far, all we’ve seen is telekinesis and genki absorption. Lets hope Toyo can either come up with or even taken unique spells and magical abilities from other popcultures to make Moro a really badass mage.

Shouldn’t be all that hard. Just crack open a d&d magic rule book and go to the high tier spell pages.

Fireballs, lighting strikes, illusions, spirit warriors, poison, teleportation, magical barrier, paralysis, time-slowing magic. Thats the kind of stuff i can think of off the top of my head.

[Rakurai]

A role that could have been cemented just as well with her eliminating 2 universes or even 1. Eliminating 4 universes, obviously to most, made it come off as Toyo being lazy and just getting rid of 4 universe right off the bat to make the Tournament go by faster or because he was too lazy to give some of those 4 universes more attenaion. And it makes the tournament feel like less of a Battle Royale. They could have just had Kale go berserk and eliminate random people from random universes. Not just go clear one universe after another until 4 have been gone. You call all this stuff in the anime fluff and superfluous bullshit. But in an arc like the T.o.P, the main plot point is that it IS a Battle Royale. So even doing stuff like focusing on fights between randoms from differnt universe isn’t fluff because thats what you should expect from a Battle Royale. And the manga completely dropped the ball when it came to that. The Kale unnecessarily eliminating 4 universes when she could have been hyped up another way is a perfect evidence of why people saw that as rushing and saw the anime and what it did with the other universe characters as better and not just superfluous bullshit or fluff.

"Too lazy to give some of those 4 universes more attention" and this is where your argument falls flat.

Your assumption of Toyo being too lazy is as baseless as others' assumption of Toriyama being too lax on him (for the record, nobody should be making these kinds of assumptions without the hard evidence to back it up).

Universe 10 had its attention in the FTrunks arc. Toyotarou gave the star fighters of both Universe 2 and Universe 4 a chapter dedicated to them. The only exception is Universe 3 whom we hardly got to see, but he never misled us to believe that they mattered to the plot to begin with much like Universes 2, 4, & 10.

The whole setting of the ToP is a mask to the real stars of the arc: new Saiyan lore (Kale) and Jiren. One could argue that Kale served as a prelude to the Broly film. It was never really about exploring the fighters of the other universes as much as it was about these two.

--

I found this chapter pretty boring. Battle with no interesting magic twists. Nothing really interesting in general except having the Frieza grunt become a willing ally to Moro's schemes. Thought it was a nice touch to have a more mundane character be wrapped up in this. Kind of like with the other two Frieza soldiers who befriended Broly (I forgot their names).

[Rakurai]

No, Black wasn't. Fused Zamasu is the main villain pf the Future Trunks arc.

Zamasu as a character and persona was the main villain of that arc. The primary roles went to FZamasu and Black. Fused Zamasu was the end antagonist but he does not conform to the standards of a 'main' one.

[AnimeNation101]

A role that could have been cemented just as well with her eliminating 2 universes or even 1. Eliminating 4 universes, obviously to most, made it come off as Toyo being lazy and just getting rid of 4 universe right off the bat to make the Tournament go by faster or because he was too lazy to give some of those 4 universes more attenaion. And it makes the tournament feel like less of a Battle Royale. They could have just had Kale go berserk and eliminate random people from random universes. Not just go clear one universe after another until 4 have been gone. You call all this stuff in the anime fluff and superfluous bullshit. But in an arc like the T.o.P, the main plot point is that it IS a Battle Royale. So even doing stuff like focusing on fights between randoms from differnt universe isn’t fluff because thats what you should expect from a Battle Royale. And the manga completely dropped the ball when it came to that. The Kale unnecessarily eliminating 4 universes when she could have been hyped up another way is a perfect evidence of why people saw that as rushing and saw the anime and what it did with the other universe characters as better and not just superfluous bullshit or fluff.

"Too lazy to give some of those 4 universes more attention" and this is where your argument falls flat.

Your assumption of Toyo being too lazy is as baseless as others' assumption of Toriyama being too lax on him (for the record, nobody should be making these kinds of assumptions without the hard evidence to back it up).

Universe 10 had its attention in the FTrunks arc. Toyotarou gave the star fighters of both Universe 2 and Universe 4 a chapter dedicated to them. The only exception is Universe 3 whom we hardly got to see, but he never misled us to believe that they mattered to the plot to begin with much like Universes 2, 4, & 10.

The whole setting of the ToP is a mask to the real stars of the arc: new Saiyan lore (Kale) and Jiren. One could argue that Kale served as a prelude to the Broly film. It was never really about exploring the fighters of the other universes as much as it was about these two.

--

I found this chapter pretty boring. Battle with no interesting magic twists. Nothing really interesting in general except having the Frieza grunt become a willing ally to Moro's schemes. Thought it was a nice touch to have a more mundane character be wrapped up in this. Kind of like with the other two Frieza soldiers who befriended Broly (I forgot their names).

Thats you assuming right now.

The main plot of this arc is thats its a Battle Royale for the survival of universes. Taking out half the competition in one go to hype up a character when the same hype could have been generated by eliminating 2 universes or even less comes off as Toyo rushing the arc and either not caring/being too lazy to give other universes the attention or it comes off as making the plot of a Battle Royale feel like less of a Battle Royale than it’s supposed to be. Its like how the anime Battle Royale is just every universe lining up to fight U7 with U6 and U11 occasionally getting involved. But at least that gave every universe a substantial ammount of attention. And saying U10 had attention in the Black arc is the worst excuse I've ever seen. The only attention U10 even got in the FT arc was having Gowasu and Zamasu and even than, they were more involved in a conflict mainly happening in Universe 7. None of U10’s mortals, God of Destruction, or Angel were involved in the slightest (besides being killed off screen by Zamasu/Black).

[AnimeNation101]

No, Black wasn't. Fused Zamasu is the main villain pf the Future Trunks arc.

Zamasu as a character and persona was the main villain of that arc. The primary roles went to FZamasu and Black. Fused Zamasu was the end antagonist but he does not conform to the standards of a 'main' one.

This is correct. Fused Zamasu is the equivalent of the main big bad going into their final form. Fused Zamasu wasn’t the mastermind behind the whole conflict of the arc. Thats Zamasu. And Fused Zamasu is just Zamasu’s Final form.

[Liquir]

Sorry for double posting guys, but here it is:



And here’s Herms’ Age Guide!
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10276&p=254399

Do you know where (source) is it mentioned the age of the Old Kai? Also does that age include his life up until the sealing of the Z-sword or from that point forward that has passed since his sealing in the Z-sword?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

My only disappointment is that the chapter ended.

Moro and the former Freeza Soldier both makes me excited to see how things will unfold.

[Lord Frieza]

So far, all we’ve seen is telekinesis and genki absorption. Lets hope Toyo can either come up with or even taken unique spells and magical abilities from other popcultures to make Moro a really badass mage.

Shouldn’t be all that hard. Just crack open a d&d magic rule book and go to the high tier spell pages.

Fireballs, lighting strikes, illusions, spirit warriors, poison, teleportation, magical barrier, paralysis, time-slowing magic. Thats the kind of stuff i can think of off the top of my head.

All good examples but a good chunk of them is stuff the guys have faced befor. That said Moro can likely bust out truly over powered versions of all your classic spells.

I want him to have the real good stuff up his sleeves, for example...

In the Slayers series we've got stuff like:

The Ra Tilt - One of the most powerful shamanistic spells which instantly engulfs the target in blue flames while his or her astral body is torn to pieces.

Hell Blast - This spell creates a spear of darkness which steals the life force of the target.

For other franchises:

Final Transmutation - transforming things into gold

The Purple Sun of Xereus - A colossal orb of purple-edged darkness materialises upon the battlefield. Those who do not escape its touch are turned to inert and unfeeling crystal.

Embodiement of Ghur - The shaman snarls, embracing the form of the beast within and becoming a terror to their foes.

The Winter's Long Slumber - The caster touches a willing character, creature, or animal, causing it to immediately fall into a deep sleep akin to a bear's hibernation.

Grasp Heart - A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them.

Meteor Swarm - Which Moro already has.

Power Word Kill - You utter a word of power that can compel one creature you can see within range to die instantly.

[HeroR]

Yeah, but Black, the androids and Raditz were not the main villains of the arc.

Black was the main villain of the arc. 17 and 18 were also the main villains at the time

No, Black wasn't. Fused Zamasu is the main villain pf the Future Trunks arc.

He wasn't the main villain since he didn't exist until near the end of the arc. He was just the final villain. The person pushing the plot and was greatest physical forced was Black.

[OhHiRenan]

It’s really refreshing to see Vegeta’s development in action so prominently. The fake out with Goku rushing to save Esca only for Vegeta to beat him to the punch was fantastic. Easily one of my favorite moments to come out of the Super manga.

[AnimeNation101]

Shouldn’t be all that hard. Just crack open a d&d magic rule book and go to the high tier spell pages.

Fireballs, lighting strikes, illusions, spirit warriors, poison, teleportation, magical barrier, paralysis, time-slowing magic. Thats the kind of stuff i can think of off the top of my head.

All good examples but a good chunk of them is stuff the guys have faced befor. That said Moro can likely bust out truly over powered versions of all your classic spells.

I want him to have the real good stuff up his sleeves, for example...

In the Slayers series we've got stuff like:

The Ra Tilt - One of the most powerful shamanistic spells which instantly engulfs the target in blue flames while his or her astral body is torn to pieces.

Hell Blast - This spell creates a spear of darkness which steals the life force of the target.

For other franchises:

Final Transmutation - transforming things into gold

The Purple Sun of Xereus - A colossal orb of purple-edged darkness materialises upon the battlefield. Those who do not escape its touch are turned to inert and unfeeling crystal.

Embodiement of Ghur - The shaman snarls, embracing the form of the beast within and becoming a terror to their foes.

The Winter's Long Slumber - The caster touches a willing character, creature, or animal, causing it to immediately fall into a deep sleep akin to a bear's hibernation.

Grasp Heart - A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them.

Meteor Swarm - Which Moro already has.

Power Word Kill - You utter a word of power that can compel one creature you can see within range to die instantly.

You wouldn’t dare think we’d see any of this cool shit in a Toriyama story. But its Toyotaro. Lets hope he’s into that shit. The instant death abilities, he prob wont have. Everything else is cool.

Prob not gonna happen but i hope we get more backstory on the guy. It seems as though he is from the South galaxy since only the Grand Kaioshin and South Kaioshin fought him. Or maybe those 2 were chosen since they were the only 2 kaioshin absorbed by Buu.

[Kanassa]

Shouldn’t be all that hard. Just crack open a d&d magic rule book and go to the high tier spell pages.

Fireballs, lighting strikes, illusions, spirit warriors, poison, teleportation, magical barrier, paralysis, time-slowing magic. Thats the kind of stuff i can think of off the top of my head.

All good examples but a good chunk of them is stuff the guys have faced befor. That said Moro can likely bust out truly over powered versions of all your classic spells.

I want him to have the real good stuff up his sleeves, for example...

In the Slayers series we've got stuff like:

The Ra Tilt - One of the most powerful shamanistic spells which instantly engulfs the target in blue flames while his or her astral body is torn to pieces.

Hell Blast - This spell creates a spear of darkness which steals the life force of the target.

For other franchises:

Final Transmutation - transforming things into gold

The Purple Sun of Xereus - A colossal orb of purple-edged darkness materialises upon the battlefield. Those who do not escape its touch are turned to inert and unfeeling crystal.

Embodiement of Ghur - The shaman snarls, embracing the form of the beast within and becoming a terror to their foes.

The Winter's Long Slumber - The caster touches a willing character, creature, or animal, causing it to immediately fall into a deep sleep akin to a bear's hibernation.

Grasp Heart - A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them.

Meteor Swarm - Which Moro already has.

Power Word Kill - You utter a word of power that can compel one creature you can see within range to die instantly.

Do we have any cool spells there that haven't been used in Dragon Ball yet?

[Lord Frieza]

Fireballs, lighting strikes, illusions, spirit warriors, poison, teleportation, magical barrier, paralysis, time-slowing magic. Thats the kind of stuff i can think of off the top of my head.

All good examples but a good chunk of them is stuff the guys have faced befor. That said Moro can likely bust out truly over powered versions of all your classic spells.

I want him to have the real good stuff up his sleeves, for example...

In the Slayers series we've got stuff like:

The Ra Tilt - One of the most powerful shamanistic spells which instantly engulfs the target in blue flames while his or her astral body is torn to pieces.

Hell Blast - This spell creates a spear of darkness which steals the life force of the target.

For other franchises:

Final Transmutation - transforming things into gold

The Purple Sun of Xereus - A colossal orb of purple-edged darkness materialises upon the battlefield. Those who do not escape its touch are turned to inert and unfeeling crystal.

Embodiement of Ghur - The shaman snarls, embracing the form of the beast within and becoming a terror to their foes.

The Winter's Long Slumber - The caster touches a willing character, creature, or animal, causing it to immediately fall into a deep sleep akin to a bear's hibernation.

Grasp Heart - A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them.

Meteor Swarm - Which Moro already has.

Power Word Kill - You utter a word of power that can compel one creature you can see within range to die instantly.

You wouldn’t dare think we’d see any of this cool shit in a Toriyama story. But its Toyotaro. Lets hope he’s into that shit. The instant death abilities, he prob wont have. Everything else is cool.

Prob not gonna happen but i hope we get more backstory on the guy. It seems as though he is from the South galaxy since only the Grand Kaioshin and South Kaioshin fought him. Or maybe those 2 were chosen since they were the only 2 kaioshin absorbed by Buu.

True but one can always hope. I'm fine with him being an elemental shaman, which is what his powers in the flash back point to, along with more standerd dark magic abilites. I get my hopes up because he uses magic, with magic anything is possible, it really just limited to your imagination in most cases. Hopefully it will encourage a more creative Toyotaro to really push the boat out.

Do we have any cool spells there that haven't been used in Dragon Ball yet?

Edit: I missunder stood the question could you please elaborate.

[Kanassa]

All good examples but a good chunk of them is stuff the guys have faced befor. That said Moro can likely bust out truly over powered versions of all your classic spells.

I want him to have the real good stuff up his sleeves, for example...

In the Slayers series we've got stuff like:

The Ra Tilt - One of the most powerful shamanistic spells which instantly engulfs the target in blue flames while his or her astral body is torn to pieces.

Hell Blast - This spell creates a spear of darkness which steals the life force of the target.

For other franchises:

Final Transmutation - transforming things into gold

The Purple Sun of Xereus - A colossal orb of purple-edged darkness materialises upon the battlefield. Those who do not escape its touch are turned to inert and unfeeling crystal.

Embodiement of Ghur - The shaman snarls, embracing the form of the beast within and becoming a terror to their foes.

The Winter's Long Slumber - The caster touches a willing character, creature, or animal, causing it to immediately fall into a deep sleep akin to a bear's hibernation.

Grasp Heart - A 9th tier spell in which the caster grabs and crushes their opponent's heart, causing instant death to them.

Meteor Swarm - Which Moro already has.

Power Word Kill - You utter a word of power that can compel one creature you can see within range to die instantly.

You wouldn’t dare think we’d see any of this cool shit in a Toriyama story. But its Toyotaro. Lets hope he’s into that shit. The instant death abilities, he prob wont have. Everything else is cool.

Prob not gonna happen but i hope we get more backstory on the guy. It seems as though he is from the South galaxy since only the Grand Kaioshin and South Kaioshin fought him. Or maybe those 2 were chosen since they were the only 2 kaioshin absorbed by Buu.

True but one can always hope. I'm fine with him being an elemental shaman, which is what his powers in the flash back point to, along with more standerd dark magic abilites. I get my hopes up because he uses magic, with magic anything is possible, it really just limited to your imagination in most cases. Hopefully it will encourage a more creative Toyotaro to really push the boat out.

Do we have any cool spells there that haven't been used in Dragon Ball yet?

Edit: I missunder stood the question could you please illaberate.

You said that prior examples, while good, were stuff Dragon Ball has faced before. Looking at your list, plenty of that stuff has been done before (Substitute gold for stone), is boring instant death, or just seems rather bland for a fight (He spawns a spear). Closest to interesting sounding spells on there is the balls that transforms you if you touch them. I was asking if there were any other spells that were more unique or cool.

[AnimeNation101]

Moro, instead of using regular ol ki blast, should use energy circles. And i hope he has transmutation power.

[Lord Frieza]

Edit: I missunder stood the question could you please illaberate.

You said that prior examples, while good, were stuff Dragon Ball has faced before. Looking at your list, plenty of that stuff has been done before (Substitute gold for stone), is boring instant death, or just seems rather bland for a fight (He spawns a spear). Closest to interesting sounding spells on there is the balls that transforms you if you touch them. I was asking if there were any other spells that were more unique or cool.

I see thank you.

Well one that jumps to mind is something like the Giga Slave from Slayers. It's a magic attack that tarnsends Holy or Dark magic because it draws power from the creator of the universe. Downside, it takes a heavey tole on the caster and if miscast it could destroy reality. So the DB equivilent would be summoning power beyond even Zen-Oh.

Chaos Magic is another one, for example chaos flame that do not burn but spread madness and mutation. It's the Russian roulette of magic types.

Time Acceleration. Rathern then stopping or slowing down time, the user can speed up their own personal time to increase attack speed or forcable age the target.

Offensive Dimention Teleoprtation, basically sending your targets to say a Demon Realm. A place they cannot in theory leave and is filled with beings more then happy to kill them.

Curses is actually one of the most obvouse. A premiant and supernatural affliction of bad luck, pain or illness.

De-Powering, using magic to take a persons abilities away.


Edit:

On the subject of time again. Time Loops, trapping your target in a continous loop of time either to disable them or for you to achive a victory because you know everything they are going to try.

For a specific spell there's the Balefire from the Wheel of Time. When used, it destroys the person/object it hits backwards in time. How far back depending on the strength of the balefire.

Another I thought of is Binding spells, specifically ones that bind stronger beings then you like demons or gods.



So for example Moro could caste a spell that forcable binds Beerus to do his bidding. The being is not under any mind control, but due to the spells magic they must obay.

Not all 100% original I'll grant but not used in the way I describe in Dragon Ball.

Edit 2:

I'd like to point out that being a magic user isn't all flashy explosions. While instant death and disable spells are not very thematic it's a pretty core part of what makes magic users what they are. People who can fell the mightiest warriors with a word or gesture.