"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:23 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
Edit: I missunder stood the question could you please illaberate.
You said that prior examples, while good, were stuff Dragon Ball has faced before. Looking at your list, plenty of that stuff has been done before (Substitute gold for stone), is boring instant death, or just seems rather bland for a fight (He spawns a spear). Closest to interesting sounding spells on there is the balls that transforms you if you touch them. I was asking if there were any other spells that were more unique or cool.
I see thank you.

Well one that jumps to mind is something like the Giga Slave from Slayers. It's a magic attack that tarnsends Holy or Dark magic because it draws power from the creator of the universe. Downside, it takes a heavey tole on the caster and if miscast it could destroy reality. So the DB equivilent would be summoning power beyond even Zen-Oh.

Chaos Magic is another one, for example chaos flame that do not burn but spread madness and mutation. It's the Russian roulette of magic types.

Time Acceleration. Rathern then stopping or slowing down time, the user can speed up their own personal time to increase attack speed or forcable age the target.

Offensive Dimention Teleoprtation, basically sending your targets to say a Demon Realm. A place they cannot in theory leave and is filled with beings more then happy to kill them.

Curses is actually one of the most obvouse. A premiant and supernatural affliction of bad luck, pain or illness.

De-Powering, using magic to take a persons abilities away.


Edit:

On the subject of time again. Time Loops, trapping your target in a continous loop of time either to disable them or for you to achive a victory because you know everything they are going to try.

For a specific spell there's the Balefire from the Wheel of Time. When used, it destroys the person/object it hits backwards in time. How far back depending on the strength of the balefire.

Another I thought of is Binding spells, specifically ones that bind stronger beings then you like demons or gods.

Image

So for example Moro could caste a spell that forcable binds Beerus to do his bidding. The being is not under any mind control, but due to the spells magic they must obay.

Not all 100% original I'll grant but not used in the way I describe in Dragon Ball.

Edit 2:

I'd like to point out that being a magic user isn't all flashy explosions. While instant death and disable spells are not very thematic it's a pretty core part of what makes magic users what they are. People who can fell the mightiest warriors with a word or gesture.
Magic is the ultimate counter to Zeno.

You literally trap Zeno in an illusion where he’s always having fun and would never want to leave.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Chuquita » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:38 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:
Lord Frieza wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote:
Edit: I missunder stood the question could you please illaberate.
You said that prior examples, while good, were stuff Dragon Ball has faced before. Looking at your list, plenty of that stuff has been done before (Substitute gold for stone), is boring instant death, or just seems rather bland for a fight (He spawns a spear). Closest to interesting sounding spells on there is the balls that transforms you if you touch them. I was asking if there were any other spells that were more unique or cool.
I see thank you.

Well one that jumps to mind is something like the Giga Slave from Slayers. It's a magic attack that tarnsends Holy or Dark magic because it draws power from the creator of the universe. Downside, it takes a heavey tole on the caster and if miscast it could destroy reality. So the DB equivilent would be summoning power beyond even Zen-Oh.

Chaos Magic is another one, for example chaos flame that do not burn but spread madness and mutation. It's the Russian roulette of magic types.

Time Acceleration. Rathern then stopping or slowing down time, the user can speed up their own personal time to increase attack speed or forcable age the target.

Offensive Dimention Teleoprtation, basically sending your targets to say a Demon Realm. A place they cannot in theory leave and is filled with beings more then happy to kill them.

Curses is actually one of the most obvouse. A premiant and supernatural affliction of bad luck, pain or illness.

De-Powering, using magic to take a persons abilities away.


Edit:

On the subject of time again. Time Loops, trapping your target in a continous loop of time either to disable them or for you to achive a victory because you know everything they are going to try.

For a specific spell there's the Balefire from the Wheel of Time. When used, it destroys the person/object it hits backwards in time. How far back depending on the strength of the balefire.

Another I thought of is Binding spells, specifically ones that bind stronger beings then you like demons or gods.

Image

So for example Moro could caste a spell that forcable binds Beerus to do his bidding. The being is not under any mind control, but due to the spells magic they must obay.

Not all 100% original I'll grant but not used in the way I describe in Dragon Ball.

Edit 2:

I'd like to point out that being a magic user isn't all flashy explosions. While instant death and disable spells are not very thematic it's a pretty core part of what makes magic users what they are. People who can fell the mightiest warriors with a word or gesture.
This sounds like it'd make for some genuinely exciting storytelling and you're getting my hopes up for Moro to have these types of powers.

Really looking forward to next month's chapter.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Frieza » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:02 pm

Chuquita wrote:
This sounds like it'd make for some genuinely exciting storytelling and you're getting my hopes up for Moro to have these types of powers.

Really looking forward to next month's chapter.

I really am. Moro is somthing of a wish come true, at least in how he seems. While I liked Jiren and Black/Zamasu a lot, I really want a character who breaks away from the standerd fair and put's the heroes out of their comfort zone. Yes he can fight, this is dragon ball after all, but someone who comes to the table with a skill set completely alien to the heroes. A Foe who can put the stakes back into the story and force Goku and Vegeta to find a way to beat him that doesn't involve just getting stronger... or rather stronger as they usually do.

A magic user is a perfect idea for that because magic is unbound from the limitations of ki. While it has to have some rules for story purposes, it's a massive opportunity to create a character that doesn't just fire bigger beams then the last because magic, by it's definition, is only limited by the writers imagination.

I'm just really hopful that they went down this road not just for a gimmick to actually try and push the series in a better direction one way or another.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:41 pm

batistabus wrote:
Hmm. Since Raspberry is an anime filler character, I'm not convinced that they're the same person, although they might be. The anime character has black/brown eyebrows, but this character's hair is lighter. I got the impression that this character deserted the Freeza Force before (but around the time that) Freeza went to Namek based on his few lines of speech. If he was on Namek, he would have had to use a Ginyu pod to escape, which I suppose is possible. Either way, we'll find out soon enough.

Of course, the Dragon Ball Wikia has already gone ahead and decided that hey are indeed the same character....big surprise there.
Sure he looks the same , funny that doing search about it , you can find the guy on video games 3-4 years ago ...
He knows vegeta , he knew freeza went to namek , etc , perhaps he knows he speach to involuted the dragon and that’s why Moro won’t need him after his wish ...
He seems a lucky random guy ... you guys think Moro will keep his word or will kill him ?
One more thing ... galactic patrol lost all my respect not knowing about new namek many years after ...

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Last edited by prince212 on Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:17 pm

Despite Merus being told Goku and Vegeta are strong, still says they need Boo no matter what. Goku and Vegeta are still very unlikely to beat Moro, even in his weakened state. Vegeta is already using red. Merus is still heading back to HQ for Dai Kaioshin. Rest in peace Vegeta, a weakened Moro is about to body bag.

I thought the chapter was just mediocre. It was nothing more than a set up chapter for the confrontation to introduce Moro's threat level for the next release.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:50 pm

Zamasu55 wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote: Yeah, but Black, the androids and Raditz were not the main villains of the arc.
Black was the main villain of the arc. 17 and 18 were also the main villains at the time
No, Black wasn't. Fused Zamasu is the main villain pf the Future Trunks arc.
Not really. That’s like saying Kid Buu is the main villain of the whole Buu saga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by nato25 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:53 pm

Miracles wrote:Despite Merus being told Goku and Vegeta are strong, still says they need Boo no matter what. Goku and Vegeta are still very unlikely to beat Moro, even in his weakened state. Vegeta is already using red. Merus is still heading back to HQ for Dai Kaioshin. Rest in peace Vegeta, a weakened Moro is about to body bag.

I thought the chapter was just mediocre. It was nothing more than a set up chapter for the confrontation to introduce Moro's threat level for the next release.
Yeah but you need those and so far Moro is looking very threatening. It's the very classic 'Vegeta's cockyness makes the audience know he is about to get wrecked and that makes the villain look even more scary' but it still works I think and it's cool that they gave context to Moro's ki not being strong but terrifying in other ways.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:54 pm

Really looking forward to seeing how this progresses. We already have some enjoyable nuggets of developmental content such as the memorative accountability of Vegeta when he referred back to his wanton slaughter of the Namekian people and how he feels obligated to protect them due to said atrocity. Toyotaro's attempts to branch and forge his own impression on Dragon Ball is a welcome change, if you ask me. We've had too much vapid darwinism dressed up in the form of ki sizes and hair altering transformations. Moro so far is defying that convention, to an extent at least, and aiming for something that's generally not focused upon in all too great of detail.

My only gripe is that Toyotaro is rehashing the Namek backdrop for this confrontation. First impressions aren't everything, of course. Hopefully it'll progress to something more than just an isolated conflict on a similar setting as the Freeza arc -- even then, Vegeta's checkered relationship with the Namekian people and Moro's unorthodox comprehension of magic could hopefully change the dynamics somewhat. The fact Merus came to the conclusion that Goku and Vegeta would still lose in spite of being stronger than Moro has me all the more interested. I want to see Moro force Goku and Vegeta out of their comfort zone and into an esoteric realm of art which they can't necessarily grasp or punch out of.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:12 pm

I'm really liking Moro's personality. Despite the actions that Vegeta has taken against him, he has not come close to losing his cool. That's pretty unique.

As for the return of his magic, I'm betting it had something to do with the changes Boo went through when he purged the evil from his body. He said it mysteriously happened a few years ago, so one way or another, it probably had something to do with the Boo arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GreatJaiyaman » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:21 pm

Does anyone think that Raspberry will pull a Finn (star wars) and be former soldier turned hero? Imagine a frieza soldier getting development.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:24 pm

Miracles wrote: It was nothing more than a set up chapter for the confrontation to introduce Moro's threat level for the next release.
Personally, I think that's fine. Necessary, even.

As a setup chapter, it wasn't any worse than, say, 28. Whether it's the Galactic Patrol's deduction at work, the bad guys on the move, an established goal for the central antagonist or some characterization for Vegeta, I feel we're getting more than enough story development to justify its composition.

I totally disagree with people calling it a slow-paced chapter. It's actually quite swift if you're viewing the story holistically; the fact that they've all converged at a destination and are already fighting Moro speaks for itself. Last month gave me the impression they would be jumping through a bunch of trivial excursion hoops throughout the arc (like the train sequence) before finally reaching Moro, but I'm happy the manga chose to forsake that route.

Instead of the illusion that a lot is happening when there's nothing actually happening, this one is much more to the point in terms of approaching the main conflict. I hope it sticks the landing.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:37 am

Looks like jaco is in charge of the 2-3 gags per chapter .
Jaco feels genuine to the original by toriyama. I like it
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:06 am

batistabus wrote:I'm really liking Moro's personality. Despite the actions that Vegeta has taken against him, he has not come close to losing his cool. That's pretty unique.
Really? Villains in dragonball tend to start smug and break their calm facade when they start losing. Since Moro isn't losing yet, he still has his calm demeanor.
--------------------------
I wish I had more to say, but whatever mystery is being built hasn't given us enough clues for us to try to figure it out. I have no reason to be invested in Moro as a villain, nor Merus as a character. Having the bad guy fight right away is certainly unique in Dragonball's "canon" story (it happens all the goddamn time in movies, video games, and the other dragonball fluff out there because they think a fight is all we want), but it's unique for a reason: without build-up there isn't that exciting climax. I'm hoping something big happens next time so this doesn't end up feeling episodic.

Of course, this arc is just 2.5 chapters old at this point, but the pace really needs to pick up.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:25 am

TKA wrote:Really? Villains in dragonball tend to start smug and break their calm facade when they start losing. Since Moro isn't losing yet, he still has his calm demeanor.
Vegeta stole his first meal in millions of years, and he seemed to find it more amusing than anything. Vegeta kicked him in the face, and he hardly frowned. You're right, he's not close to losing at this point, but I can't imagine any other DB villain responding in that way to something like that. He seems much less insecure than what we're used to. I think it's partially because he's so old, partially because he knows his strength isn't want makes him so dangerous, and partially because he's a bit twisted.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Bergamo » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:27 am

AnimeNation101 wrote:
Rakurai wrote:
AnimeNation101 wrote: A role that could have been cemented just as well with her eliminating 2 universes or even 1. Eliminating 4 universes, obviously to most, made it come off as Toyo being lazy and just getting rid of 4 universe right off the bat to make the Tournament go by faster or because he was too lazy to give some of those 4 universes more attenaion. And it makes the tournament feel like less of a Battle Royale. They could have just had Kale go berserk and eliminate random people from random universes. Not just go clear one universe after another until 4 have been gone. You call all this stuff in the anime fluff and superfluous bullshit. But in an arc like the T.o.P, the main plot point is that it IS a Battle Royale. So even doing stuff like focusing on fights between randoms from differnt universe isn’t fluff because thats what you should expect from a Battle Royale. And the manga completely dropped the ball when it came to that. The Kale unnecessarily eliminating 4 universes when she could have been hyped up another way is a perfect evidence of why people saw that as rushing and saw the anime and what it did with the other universe characters as better and not just superfluous bullshit or fluff.
"Too lazy to give some of those 4 universes more attention" and this is where your argument falls flat.

Your assumption of Toyo being too lazy is as baseless as others' assumption of Toriyama being too lax on him (for the record, nobody should be making these kinds of assumptions without the hard evidence to back it up).

Universe 10 had its attention in the FTrunks arc. Toyotarou gave the star fighters of both Universe 2 and Universe 4 a chapter dedicated to them. The only exception is Universe 3 whom we hardly got to see, but he never misled us to believe that they mattered to the plot to begin with much like Universes 2, 4, & 10.

The whole setting of the ToP is a mask to the real stars of the arc: new Saiyan lore (Kale) and Jiren. One could argue that Kale served as a prelude to the Broly film. It was never really about exploring the fighters of the other universes as much as it was about these two.

--

I found this chapter pretty boring. Battle with no interesting magic twists. Nothing really interesting in general except having the Frieza grunt become a willing ally to Moro's schemes. Thought it was a nice touch to have a more mundane character be wrapped up in this. Kind of like with the other two Frieza soldiers who befriended Broly (I forgot their names).
Thats you assuming right now.

The main plot of this arc is thats its a Battle Royale for the survival of universes. Taking out half the competition in one go to hype up a character when the same hype could have been generated by eliminating 2 universes or even less comes off as Toyo rushing the arc and either not caring/being too lazy to give other universes the attention or it comes off as making the plot of a Battle Royale feel like less of a Battle Royale than it’s supposed to be. Its like how the anime Battle Royale is just every universe lining up to fight U7 with U6 and U11 occasionally getting involved. But at least that gave every universe a substantial ammount of attention. And saying U10 had attention in the Black arc is the worst excuse I've ever seen. The only attention U10 even got in the FT arc was having Gowasu and Zamasu and even than, they were more involved in a conflict mainly happening in Universe 7. None of U10’s mortals, God of Destruction, or Angel were involved in the slightest (besides being killed off screen by Zamasu/Black).
You do realize that Kale didn't eliminate every member of those 4 universes right? Saying Kale eliminated half of the competition is like saying that universe 7 eliminated 100% of all fighters in the anime. She got the finishing blows on 4 universes that all had a varying number of fights and moments in the prior chapters.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Liquir » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:53 am

Did Vegeta go SSJ 2 in Chapter 44? There was a page in the chapter when Vegeta pushes forward and a lightning-esque effect appeared that resembles that of a SSJ 2 form (lightning)..

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:26 am

What kinda annoys me is that Toyo pulled a very classic, but annoying RPG trope. Namely, characters who knows important information, yet won't tell the characters what it is. Instead, they give you text of vagueness that will only make sense after shit hits the fan.

Like, we're are just told 'Moro can used magic'. Yet, for some reasons, no one asked what kind of magic that he can used. Just that he can absorbed energy from planets. Like, why wouldn't you tell Goku and Vegeta what else Moro can do instead of the classic, 'they won't win'. At least Shin, for all his issues, actually explained the nature of Babidi's magic, namely his ability to control evil people.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Doctor. » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:55 am

batistabus wrote:I'm really liking Moro's personality. Despite the actions that Vegeta has taken against him, he has not come close to losing his cool. That's pretty unique.
It's not. Goku Black and Hit never lost their composure in the anime.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:07 am

Lionel wrote:Really looking forward to seeing how this progresses. We already have some enjoyable nuggets of developmental content such as the memorative accountability of Vegeta when he referred back to his wanton slaughter of the Namekian people and how he feels obligated to protect them due to said atrocity.
That felt very out of character. Not Vegeta feeling responsibility and desire to protect the Namekians, but flat out saying it outright is what didn't sound natural or in-character. That felt like it was done solely as exposition to explain his state of mind (and I'd argue that there are better ways to do it).

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:12 am

Zamasu55 wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:
Zamasu55 wrote: Yeah, but Black, the androids and Raditz were not the main villains of the arc.
Black was the main villain of the arc. 17 and 18 were also the main villains at the time
No, Black wasn't. Fused Zamasu is the main villain pf the Future Trunks arc.
Fused Zamasu is literally Black's final form
Black was the main villain of the arc. He set everything in motion and the goal was to stop him.

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