"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:00 am

Liquir wrote:Did Vegeta go SSJ 2 in Chapter 44? There was a page in the chapter when Vegeta pushes forward and a lightning-esque effect appeared that resembles that of a SSJ 2 form (lightning)..
Good old Super Saiyan 2. The transformation people loved, even when they can't tell when someone is using it or not.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheOne » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:28 am

batistabus wrote:
TKA wrote:Really? Villains in dragonball tend to start smug and break their calm facade when they start losing. Since Moro isn't losing yet, he still has his calm demeanor.
Vegeta stole his first meal in millions of years, and he seemed to find it more amusing than anything. Vegeta kicked him in the face, and he hardly frowned. You're right, he's not close to losing at this point, but I can't imagine any other DB villain responding in that way to something like that. He seems much less insecure than what we're used to. I think it's partially because he's so old, partially because he knows his strength isn't want makes him so dangerous, and partially because he's a bit twisted.
You really can’t imagine another villain responding like that? So you’re just going to overlook a base Goku Black taking a pounding from a SSB Vegeta and pretty much smiling and taking hits?
How i predict the tournament will end:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:32 am

Really enjoying this new arc so far! Like a breath of fresh air after the honestly stale ToP in the manga. Very excited to see how this Moro fairs. It's obvious he's going to get his full strength back. Hope he has some cool magical abilities and how that will effect our godly heroes

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:44 am

AnimeNation101 wrote: Thats you assuming right now.

The main plot of this arc is thats its a Battle Royale for the survival of universes. Taking out half the competition in one go to hype up a character when the same hype could have been generated by eliminating 2 universes or even less comes off as Toyo rushing the arc and either not caring/being too lazy to give other universes the attention or it comes off as making the plot of a Battle Royale feel like less of a Battle Royale than it’s supposed to be. Its like how the anime Battle Royale is just every universe lining up to fight U7 with U6 and U11 occasionally getting involved. But at least that gave every universe a substantial ammount of attention. And saying U10 had attention in the Black arc is the worst excuse I've ever seen. The only attention U10 even got in the FT arc was having Gowasu and Zamasu and even than, they were more involved in a conflict mainly happening in Universe 7. None of U10’s mortals, God of Destruction, or Angel were involved in the slightest (besides being killed off screen by Zamasu/Black).
I didn't assume anything. Kale and Jiren got the brunt of the focus in the manga. They had more chapters dedicated to them than any other individual antagonist. They got exposition. It's all in the manga. They are the stars of the ToP arc. Meanwhile, calling Toyotarou lazy because Kale eliminated 4 universes at once is baseless and unsupported. Who are you to dictate how he should pan out his interpretation of Toriyama's outline?

You talk about this feeling of Battle Royale. The manga feels more than a battle royale than the anime to me, because like you said not every universe lined up in order to be eliminated by U6/U7 like some kind of Smash Bros classic mode. Kale actively went for anyone indiscriminately. A battle royale should feel all-around but unpredictable, and an extremely strong but unstable Saiyan rampaging through multiple universes at once is certainly unexpected. She even went for Toppo and Vegeta first, and they were almost taken out too. Do I think 4 universes in one go was fast? Yeah, I do. But then again, I never thought of the ToP as setting itself up to be a battle royale to begin with, considering we didn't even get any focus or build-up of the universes besides U6 & U11 prior.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:47 am

Luso Saiyan wrote: That felt very out of character. Not Vegeta feeling responsibility and desire to protect the Namekians, but flat out saying it outright is what didn't sound natural or in-character. That felt like it was done solely as exposition to explain his state of mind (and I'd argue that there are better ways to do it).
He said it outright because he was responding to Moro's question. Vegeta is blunt and straightforward; he doesn't tend to beat around the bush when prompted for a serious answer. The guy has outwardly expressed his feelings on at least three different occasions in the Boo arc alone.

It's all about context, and it's all about a character who's constantly evolving throughout the series. I don't see how this was even remotely OOC.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:14 am

Posted this in the movie thread, but thought it could also be relevant to the manga and Toyotarou in general:
Toyotarou draws more old characters who haven't been seen in DBSuper. This month features the rest of Bardock's crew: Panbukin, Seripa, Toteppo, & Toma.

https://dragonball.news/news/toyotarou201901.html

Bardock's movie crewmate: "An order to return home has been issued. Bardock and I are heading back to Planet Vegeta. What about you guys?"

Toma: "An order to return home? Wait a minute, we didn't hear about such a thing."

Dodoria: "Kukuku... This right here is the placed where you lot will be killed."

- "After this, Toma and the others couldn't be contacted... Because of this, Bardock's distrust towards the order to return grew much stronger." -

Toyotarou's message: "[Names of crew]! It would've been nice if these four were involved behind the scenes of the Broly film- but that's just my headcanon (lol)."

Seems like the OG crew finally made it into movie canon... not? Well either way they'd still be offed in the same manner as the TV special it seems.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:19 am

Doctor. wrote:
batistabus wrote:I'm really liking Moro's personality. Despite the actions that Vegeta has taken against him, he has not come close to losing his cool. That's pretty unique.
It's not. Goku Black and Hit never lost their composure in the anime.
Anime Goku Black's response was too masochistic, which I did not enjoy. Anime Hit was devoid of just about any emotion, which is not what I'm observing here. Anyway, the anime is a separate continuity. Feel free to disagree, but I feel that this is different. Things could change moving forward.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:36 pm

I'm liking this, I just hope it was set after EoZ. Knowing already Mr Buu will survive this arc and will keep being fat and nice sort of bothers me.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:55 pm

batistabus wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
batistabus wrote:I'm really liking Moro's personality. Despite the actions that Vegeta has taken against him, he has not come close to losing his cool. That's pretty unique.
It's not. Goku Black and Hit never lost their composure in the anime.
Anime Goku Black's response was too masochistic, which I did not enjoy. Anime Hit was devoid of just about any emotion, which is not what I'm observing here. Anyway, the anime is a separate continuity. Feel free to disagree, but I feel that this is different. Things could change moving forward.
Here’s the reactions of those 3 after they receive the first contact ...
Hit made an excuse ..https://imageshack.com/i/pnNPOq59j
Goku Black changed his face from sadistic to serious https://imageshack.com/i/pmIzPu3Aj
Moro made a joke ... https://imageshack.com/i/ponJaGoCj
#differences#
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:35 pm

Read the chapter and really enjoyed even if it was really telegraphed. Moros feels so eerie and I like his look without the robe a lot.

Did that Freeza soldier ever appear before? If he was in Namek I would love that.
Loved the Vegeta moment and Goku's having crazy good memory. :)

This chapter left me wanting and extremely curious to where we go from here. Whatever happens I just hope this confrontation doesn't end in a typical fashion(taiyôken) shenanigas. Give Moros some crazy substitution jutsu technique to escape, or something wild like that. That is if he needs to escape, don't mind being surprised.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:45 pm

I have some concerns moving forward. I'm not sure about how much retread I can put up with at this point, and there are certainly familiar elements at play here. If Moro wishes for his youth back, I'll be disappointed. That being said, if he consumes planets and is able to restore his youth that way, I'll be fine with it.

I've been reading the original Dragon Ball manga from the beginning lately, and it's been an especially interesting experience with modern Dragon Ball in mind. It's laugh-out-loud funny and does whatever it needs to in order to be interesting. While I have enjoyed the Super era, and I greatly admire the polished simplicity Toriyama has refined from his style, I do miss the unrestrained feeling from the original. Hopefully Toyotaro's enthusiasm guided by Toriyama's sensibilities can hit a sweet spot, although EoZ will always reign things in to some degree.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:01 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:He said it outright because he was responding to Moro's question.
He didn't question why he was saving the Namekians. He simply questioned that he would dare interrupt his meal. His explanation of why he happens to have a particular care about the Namekians is almost a non sequitur, how he said it was also completely strange (i.e: out of character).
Marlowe89 wrote:It's all about context, and it's all about a character who's constantly evolving throughout the series. I don't see how this was even remotely OOC.
Constantly evolving? How does that even address my argument? He has evolved throughout the series, yes, but he also has kept his demeanor and a lot of other things.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:01 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote: He didn't question why he was saving the Namekians. He simply questioned that he would dare interrupt his meal.
And Vegeta replied to that question with a fairly direct "I interrupted your meal because I can't allow another Namekian to get hurt, since I have a troubled history with them".

This is all very straightforward, friend. No-nonsense responses are wholly in line with how Vegeta communicates with people. He isn't losing his "demeanor" any more than when he constantly wore his heart on his sleeve throughout the manga's final arc and before -- probably less, actually. He's never been one to hide his emotions.

I'll never not be amused by how thoroughly people seem to misunderstand Vegeta's personality. He's not the composed, super stoic badass you're obviously making him out to be, and other characters have remarked on that before.
Luso Saiyan wrote:How does that even address my argument?
There's nothing to address because you didn't even elaborate on your argument. How is it not in-character? How does it not sound natural?

These are questions you need to clarify beforehand.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Luso Saiyan » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:36 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:This is all very straightforward, friend. No-nonsense responses are wholly in line with how Vegeta communicates with people. He isn't losing his "demeanor" any more than when he constantly wore his heart on his sleeve throughout the manga's final arc and before -- probably less, actually. He's never been one to hide his emotions.
Who said anything about losing demeanor or hiding emotions? Actually, he does try to hide certain emotions, but that has nothing to do with what I said.
Marlowe89 wrote:I'll never not be amused by how thoroughly people seem to misunderstand Vegeta's personality. He's not the composed, super stoic badass you're obviously making him out to be, and other characters have remarked on that before.
You obviously are addressing a strawman because I never said Vegeta was a "composed, super stoic badass". One can even argue that composed and stoic is exactly how he was portrayed in the scene I'm criticizing.
Marlowe89 wrote:There's nothing to address because you didn't even elaborate on your argument.
Apparently it was elaborate enough for you to try to address it, as you have. But since you are arguing points that have nothing do with it, maybe I didn't elaborate enough indeed.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:12 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote: Who said anything about losing demeanor or hiding emotions?
You did.

"He has evolved throughout the series, yes, but he also has kept his demeanor and a lot of other things."

The wording of your statement implicitly suggested it was related to your argument, otherwise you wouldn't have brought it up. My response was (appropriately) based on that, as well as arguments from others with the same position as yourself.

I don't do argumentum ad nauseam, so maybe don't beg the question next time.
Luso Saiyan wrote:Apparently it was elaborate enough for you to try to address it, as you have. But since you are arguing points that have nothing do with it, maybe I didn't elaborate enough indeed.
Amigo... this isn't how discussion works.

It's not my responsibility to try and decipher the reasoning behind your premise, although I did make the attempt based on what you specifically said yourself. If your assertion is poorly articulated, I can't articulate it for you. That's your job.

You still haven't answered my questions. If you can't meet me halfway, I'm not going to waste my time continuing this.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheRed259 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Vegeta fights in his normal state, then goes SSJ and then SSJ God.

I hope they don't plan on paying homage to the Broly movie because that would mean that Goku will interrupt the fight in the next chapter and then you know the rest of the story.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:17 pm

nato25 wrote:
Miracles wrote:Despite Merus being told Goku and Vegeta are strong, still says they need Boo no matter what. Goku and Vegeta are still very unlikely to beat Moro, even in his weakened state. Vegeta is already using red. Merus is still heading back to HQ for Dai Kaioshin. Rest in peace Vegeta, a weakened Moro is about to body bag.

I thought the chapter was just mediocre. It was nothing more than a set up chapter for the confrontation to introduce Moro's threat level for the next release.
Yeah but you need those and so far Moro is looking very threatening. It's the very classic 'Vegeta's cockyness makes the audience know he is about to get wrecked and that makes the villain look even more scary' but it still works I think and it's cool that they gave context to Moro's ki not being strong but terrifying in other ways.
I agree, chapters like these are necessary. I just never really cared for them. It's just setting up Moro's greatness now. Remember, this is a "stronger than ever" Goku and Vegeta a weakened Moro is facing after Broly. A good writer is going to establish a villains threat level clearly and I think this is a good way to do it.
Marlowe89 wrote:
Miracles wrote: It was nothing more than a set up chapter for the confrontation to introduce Moro's threat level for the next release.
Personally, I think that's fine. Necessary, even.

As a setup chapter, it wasn't any worse than, say, 28. Whether it's the Galactic Patrol's deduction at work, the bad guys on the move, an established goal for the central antagonist or some characterization for Vegeta, I feel we're getting more than enough story development to justify its composition.

I totally disagree with people calling it a slow-paced chapter. It's actually quite swift if you're viewing the story holistically; the fact that they've all converged at a destination and are already fighting Moro speaks for itself. Last month gave me the impression they would be jumping through a bunch of trivial excursion hoops throughout the arc (like the train sequence) before finally reaching Moro, but I'm happy the manga chose to forsake that route.

Instead of the illusion that a lot is happening when there's nothing actually happening, this one is much more to the point in terms of approaching the main conflict. I hope it sticks the landing.
Agreed, I like the fact that it was to the point. I don't see how people can say it was slow paced. As you mentioned, we were getting developments from all sides. Moro himself, Vegeta's remorse, the Freeza goon letting us in on his involvement and the mainsters already facing Moro. Wow, can the manga get a break, people were saying the TOP was rushed now this chapter is slow? Lol.
Last edited by Miracles on Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:19 pm

Luso Saiyan wrote:That felt very out of character. Not Vegeta feeling responsibility and desire to protect the Namekians, but flat out saying it outright is what didn't sound natural or in-character. That felt like it was done solely as exposition to explain his state of mind (and I'd argue that there are better ways to do it).
I can understand why you feel that way. Even though Vegeta loves Bulma, he doesn't outright say it and would be embarrassed to have it brought up.

Instead of Vegeta explaining why he did it, he could have simply said nothing. The development would still be there, but younger (which also means new) audience members might not pick up on it. The other option would be for somebody else to point it out, but since Goku is the only option - and he didn't know about it - that's not exactly possible. I suppose a Namekian could've brought it up.

Since Vegeta has been put in an unusual role this arc, I can accept a more talkative and open side from him. My interpretation is that Vegeta was clarifying his actions. Despite doing something heroic, he didn't do it because he's a hero, and he doesn't want Moro thinking that's the case. He's doing it because he feels the need to repay a debt, and thus doesn't deserve any such credit.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by prince212 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:50 pm

Vegeta attitude is not a big surprise as goku being scared of an enemy in the way he is , I don’t recall something like that before , he’s always all for the fun of fight .
Vegeta already showed us that he’s not embarrassed to say , for example , “I’m not training because I’m gonna have a child pretty soon”. Also , vegeta is alive because they wish some namekians to come back to life , not thinking that he was included in the pack , so he is half namekian :lol:
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:03 pm

The French Twitter account @VJump_Archives found the source of Moro's belt symbol. Apparently, it's from the language of the Galactic Patrol.
https://twitter.com/vjump_archives/stat ... 35265?s=21

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