"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:28 am

Kanassa wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:19 am
Also, I shit talked Vegeta LONG before the manga even existed.

Trust me I don’t care how long you hated a fictional character.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:42 am

sintzu wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:53 am
Lionel wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:29 am
This arc's emphasis on Planet Namek, Kaioshins, and magic utilisation seems almost opposite to what the Saiyans represent, at least in my opinion.
I agree. This was the last arc I thought Vegeta would get focued on in. If anything this seems like a Piccolo and Buu centric arc.
Buu might get something and hopefully he does and Tlthey must at least mention Piccolo regarding fusing or something else regarding Namekians or it is just ridiculous.

If Buu plays an important role then change might happen in the future for others as he has been treated nothing but a joke so far in Super.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 am

namekiansaiyan wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:42 am
If Buu plays an important role then change might happen in the future for others as he has been treated nothing but a joke so far in Super.
Yeah, Buu's the thing I'm curious about in this arc. Especially if he's getting a kaioshin ripped outta him.
Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:28 am
Kanassa wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:19 am
Also, I shit talked Vegeta LONG before the manga even existed.

Trust me I don’t care how long you hated a fictional character.
You don't care so much you comment on how much it annoys you that you mistake people criticizing the quality of a character for hating a character? Okay.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


Obligitory Fan Fic Plug: Dragon Ball - Another Road
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:04 am

Kanassa wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 am
You don't care so much you comment on how much it annoys you that you mistake people criticizing the quality of a character for hating a character? Okay.
You weren’t criticizing you were bashing the character and diminishing the character in a few lines. Most of what you said wasn’t true but I don’t feel like arguing with you about Vegeta as this isn’t really the thread for it.

Plenty of people had said I rather Goku be the focus because I like his character type more. He IS the main character so there is nothing wrong with that

Plenty of other people in this thread were saying I want to see other characters play a prominent role. Like saying I Hope Buu or Piccolo do something. There is nothing wrong with that

There were even people who simply said I don’t like Vegeta as a character or don’t think he would be a good main character. Nothing wrong with that either. And maybe they are right.


So yeah there are ways to present an opinion without character bashing. And really what you said has nothing to do with this arc. Vegeta being prominent or not.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:57 am

Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:04 am
You weren’t criticizing you were bashing the character and diminishing the character in a few lines.
I spoke a judgment of Vegeta as a character, that I believed after the Namek saga his character diminished, that is a criticism. It being short and a few lines doesn't change that. Though, it's certainly not the best criticism.
And really what you said has nothing to do with this arc. Vegeta being prominent or not.
The conversation revolved around opinions on Vegeta's role in the arc as well as whether they'd be fine or not with Vegeta taking a prominent or even leading role. So, me saying that I don't think Vegeta would be good in a leading role is pretty relevant to the discussion at hand, unless you're going to start saying everyone else are saying things that have nothing to do with the arc.

Also, I would like to say that if you truly do not care about something posted, the way to show that would be to not reply to said post, because you don't care about what's being said. You certainly wouldn't go on about how much that part of the post, which you REALLY don't care about, annoys you and then make an entire reply that is just the part you don't care about to say that you don't care. Otherwise, it almost comes off as lying for the sake of simply dismissing a point you care too much about.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


Obligitory Fan Fic Plug: Dragon Ball - Another Road
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:19 am

Kanassa wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:57 am
Also, I would like to say that if you truly do not care about something posted, the way to show that would be to not reply to said post, because you don't care about what's being said. You certainly wouldn't go on about how much that part of the post, which you REALLY don't care about, annoys you and then make an entire reply that is just the part you don't care about to say that you don't care. Otherwise, it almost comes off as lying for the sake of simply dismissing a point you care too much about.
Yes constantly seeing constant negativity about a character I like just by the mere mention of the character is annoying. That is what my initial post was about. I didn’t quote you but your post did spark the post but it was a general comment. Although of course the diminishing the character in a few lines was directed at you. It was indeed a bit passive aggressive of me. And no you didn’t just say I don’t think Vegeta would be a good main character. If that is what you merely had said I wouldn’t have taken issue with your post.


And note you were the one who mentioned that you have “shit talked” Vegeta for a long time. And I commented I don’t care how long you hated the character. How long you disliked the character had nothing to do with my post. It’s irrelevant to my point that you don’t need to say how awful you feel the character is just because someone says maybe Vegeta will be the main character.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:38 am

Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:19 am
Yes constantly seeing constant negativity about a character I like just by the mere mention of the character is annoying.
Constant? Huh, I thought your post was implying you were only seeing posts like this now.
That is what my initial post was about. I didn’t quote you but your post did spark the post but it was a general comment. Although of course the diminishing the character in a few lines was directed at you. It was indeed a bit passive aggressive of me.
I wouldn't call it passive aggressive (I know I always sound condescending, but this bit here is specifically not supposed to be), you were direct.
And note you were the one who mentioned that you have “shit talked” Vegeta for a long time. And I commented I don’t care how long you hated the character. How long you disliked the character had nothing to do with my post.
My post about the length was because I thought (Though, I could have misread) your reply was trying to say that I only had the opinion of Vegeta as a bad character after the Namek arc just to have an opinion that was contradictory for the current moment, so I was saying that I held the opinion that Vegeta's character has been diminished since then before this conversation. I thought defining it as 'shit-talking' would make it sound more humorous.
It’s irrelevant to my point that you don’t need to say how awful you feel the character is just because someone says maybe Vegeta will be the main character.
I don't need to say anything in this thread, you don't need to say anything in this thread, nobody does. But, in a conversation revolving around the opinions on Vegeta's character and role in the arc, it is a relevant thing to say my opinion on the subject.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


Obligitory Fan Fic Plug: Dragon Ball - Another Road
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:21 am

Kanassa wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:38 am
Constant? Huh, I thought your post was implying you were only seeing posts like this now.
Constant means not just in this thread or in relation to this arc but the mere mention of Vegeta gets people who dislike him to come out to say how horrible the character is almost every time. It gets old. Your post may have sparked my comment but the comment was also annoyance in general.

But yes other people in this thread presented “I don’t want Vegeta as the main character” in my opinion in more diplomatic way
I wouldn't call it passive aggressive (I know I always sound condescending, but this bit here is specifically not supposed to be), you were direct.
I guess I didn’t want confrontation so I didn’t quote you directly at first but of course you would notice my post and realize it was partially directed at you. To me it was passive aggressive which I don’t think is a good thing.
My post about the length was because I thought (Though, I could have misread) your reply was trying to say that I only had the opinion of Vegeta as a bad character after the Namek arc just to have an opinion that was contradictory for the current moment, so I was saying that I held the opinion that Vegeta's character has been diminished since then before this conversation. I thought defining it as 'shit-talking' would make it sound more humorous.
No that’s not what I was saying. Vegeta is a popular character but he is also a character that gets a lot of hate. This is certainly not a new trend. And your opinion that he was best in the Saiyan & Namek arc is a common one I see. I don’t agree but well I don’t have an issue with anyone feeling that way.


I don't need to say anything in this thread, you don't need to say anything in this thread, nobody does. But, in a conversation revolving around the opinions on Vegeta's character and role in the arc, it is a relevant thing to say my opinion on the subject.

Of course and you are free to voice your opinion in any way you want. But I do think there are nicer ways to go about it. What you said about Vegeta also doesn’t really say anything about why Vegeta wouldnt be a good main character for an arc. It just tells me how much you dislike the character.

And for the record while Vegeta may be my favorite I don’t for a second think he would work as a better main character than Goku. Which is why I said I am just happy for well written character moments. Vegeta is prominent enough. I am happy with where the character is now.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:30 am

Vegeta's been compelling in Super. My favorite scene is still him using the same attacke that killed Nappa against Cabba, excellent scene that demonstrated the growth of the character. By far the best use of a reference by Toyotarõ

Even in this arc we had his regret for his past actions. While Vegeta's been established as a good guy, his former crimes haven't been touched and we didn't knew how he felt about it. We now know he fight's for more than his family and protecting his new home, he fight's to pardon himself.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:11 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:21 am

Of course and you are free to voice your opinion in any way you want. But I do think there are nicer ways to go about it. What you said about Vegeta also doesn’t really say anything about why Vegeta wouldnt be a good main character for an arc. It just tells me how much you dislike the character.

And for the record while Vegeta may be my favorite I don’t for a second think he would work as a better main character than Goku. Which is why I said I am just happy for well written character moments. Vegeta is prominent enough. I am happy with where the character is now.
You have a point, I could have made a clearer explanation.

To give this arc credit, the idea of Vegeta trying to atone for the past that no one ever brings up, but it falls into the same trap that a lot of Dragon Ball falls into when it comes to character development where it has to have the characters awkwardly exposit their character development for the audience instead of letting it come naturally and allowing the audience to see the build-up to this change and such. Still, this is at least better than a lot of those moments back in Z because it feels like it has more ground instead of Toriyama having to extend the story.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


Obligitory Fan Fic Plug: Dragon Ball - Another Road
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:20 pm

Kanassa wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:11 pm
To give this arc credit, the idea of Vegeta trying to atone for the past that no one ever brings up, but it falls into the same trap that a lot of Dragon Ball falls into when it comes to character development where it has to have the characters awkwardly exposit their character development for the audience instead of letting it come naturally and allowing the audience to see the build-up to this change and such. Still, this is at least better than a lot of those moments back in Z because it feels like it has more ground instead of Toriyama having to extend the story.

I enjoyed the moment because I was happy to finally see Vegeta mention his past. I also think it was important for Vegeta to say it himself not for anyone else to comment on look how much Vegeta has changed. However when it happened in the middle of a battle with Vegeta telling his feelings to Moro is not exactly the most well written way to present it. But well Dragon Ball isn’t always subtle I guess.


It’s also to me not enough and I wish there was more focus on this in relation to Vegeta’s character. I don’t expect there to be more but I would be pleasantly surprised if there was. Although I also don’t think exploration of this means Vegeta has to beat the main villain of the arc. I would much rather have the former than the latter personally.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:32 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:20 pm
It’s also to me not enough and I wish there was more focus on this in relation to Vegeta’s character. I don’t expect there to be more but I would be pleasantly surprised if there was. Although I also don’t think exploration of this means Vegeta has to beat the main villain of the arc. I would much rather have the former than the latter personally.
I expect there to be more, but I think it's gonna be more people saying "Wow, Vegeta's real nice. Hey, do you remember all the shit he did?". I think I'd care more if the Namekians themselves showed knowledge of Vegeta's actions and maybe acted scared of him despite his attempts to help. Like, that awesome 'Zuko Alone' episode from Last Airbender.

Moror, as a villain, hasn't really done anything so far that'd make me want a specific character to be the one to beat him.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


Obligitory Fan Fic Plug: Dragon Ball - Another Road
Kanassa wrote:
FoolsGil wrote:I hope Mark is dead. But chances are the dragonballs will bring his stupid ass back. :D
- FoolsGil, Out of Context, 2017

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:46 pm

Kanassa wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:32 pm
Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:20 pm
It’s also to me not enough and I wish there was more focus on this in relation to Vegeta’s character. I don’t expect there to be more but I would be pleasantly surprised if there was. Although I also don’t think exploration of this means Vegeta has to beat the main villain of the arc. I would much rather have the former than the latter personally.
I expect there to be more, but I think it's gonna be more people saying "Wow, Vegeta's real nice. Hey, do you remember all the shit he did?". I think I'd care more if the Namekians themselves showed knowledge of Vegeta's actions and maybe acted scared of him despite his attempts to help. Like, that awesome 'Zuko Alone' episode from Last Airbender.

Moror, as a villain, hasn't really done anything so far that'd make me want a specific character to be the one to beat him.

Well we all know Vegeta is “nice” now I am more interested in how Vegeta himself views & reflects on his past actions

The Namekians being afraid of him could have been an interesting place to take the chapter. I guess that ship has sailed though.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by AnimeNation101 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:04 pm

LightBing wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:30 am
We now know he fight's for more than his family and protecting his new home, he fight's to pardon himself.
I like this. Super the anime has kinda made the whole “fighting for family thing and fighting for Cabba thing stale with Vegeta.” I like the idea of Vegeta fighting to pardon his sins or something like that.

Too bad its not the kind of reason that can be used every arc. I can only be used in this case because this arc involved Namekians being threatened.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:13 pm

It is incredible to see Vegeta get character development in both the anime & manga version of SUPER and I'm not even a fan of him but I show praise to characters that need it the only thing I do want them t change however is his jobbing to each major villain

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:10 pm

Kanassa wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:32 pm
Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:20 pm
It’s also to me not enough and I wish there was more focus on this in relation to Vegeta’s character. I don’t expect there to be more but I would be pleasantly surprised if there was. Although I also don’t think exploration of this means Vegeta has to beat the main villain of the arc. I would much rather have the former than the latter personally.
I expect there to be more, but I think it's gonna be more people saying "Wow, Vegeta's real nice. Hey, do you remember all the shit he did?". I think I'd care more if the Namekians themselves showed knowledge of Vegeta's actions and maybe acted scared of him despite his attempts to help. Like, that awesome 'Zuko Alone' episode from Last Airbender.

Moror, as a villain, hasn't really done anything so far that'd make me want a specific character to be the one to beat him.
That’s a good point. Vegeta’s evil past is treated like a bad drug addiction and he’s now clean, instead of him being a mass murderer. Even Goku mentioning how Vegeta tried to nuke the Earth is treated as humor.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:27 pm

People wanting Buu to play a role in this arc well it looks like you got your wish

https://twitter.com/suisoukiraki/status ... 57216?s=21

More on the twitter feed.


Also barefoot Goku and Vegeta. Well they showed barefoot Goku last chapter but not Vegeta. I’m happy. It’s the little things that count.

https://twitter.com/suisoukiraki/status ... 49152?s=21


Edit: Looks like I was wrong already so I’ll just let the images speak for themselves

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Namz » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:25 pm

Good for Bu, but this makes no sense. If Moro absorbed Goku and Vegeta's power then Bu shouldn't be match against him

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeztin » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:46 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:27 pm
People wanting Buu to play a role in this arc well it looks like you got your wish

https://twitter.com/suisoukiraki/status ... 57216?s=21

More on the twitter feed.


Also barefoot Goku and Vegeta. Well they showed barefoot Goku last chapter but not Vegeta. I’m happy. It’s the little things that count.

https://twitter.com/suisoukiraki/status ... 49152?s=21


Edit: Looks like I was wrong already so I’ll just let the images speak for themselves
Oh wow, looks like Boo is actually more useful than Goku and Vegeta in this fight. Does magic not work on him? That was awesome.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:58 pm

Kinokima wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:27 pm
People wanting Buu to play a role in this arc well it looks like you got your wish

https://twitter.com/suisoukiraki/status ... 57216?s=21

More on the twitter feed.


Also barefoot Goku and Vegeta. Well they showed barefoot Goku last chapter but not Vegeta. I’m happy. It’s the little things that count.

https://twitter.com/suisoukiraki/status ... 49152?s=21


Edit: Looks like I was wrong already so I’ll just let the images speak for themselves
I'm wondering how they intend to go about substantiating Buu's role in this. The intention of the Galactic Patrol was to somehow extract Dai Kaioshin from Buu, correct? We know Buu is a magical creature with unique abilities that set him apart from others. Problem is, we've seen him fight before against Kid Buu and Beerus. If these abilities could have tipped the scales in his favour then why did the outcome of those fights see him being incapacitated? It's kind of up in the air at this moment.

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