"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:01 pm

HeroR wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:02 am
LightBing wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm
In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.

UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.

He is hitting harder, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hurt Jiren. Just dodge since Goku at his max couldn't do a thing against Jiren.
"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.

Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.

The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.

Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:41 pm

LightBing wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:01 pm
HeroR wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:02 am
LightBing wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm
In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.

UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.

He is hitting harder, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hurt Jiren. Just dodge since Goku at his max couldn't do a thing against Jiren.
"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.

Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.

The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.

Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.
I went back to read the chapter, and you're right. UI Goku was never attacking directly, only counter-attacking whenever Jiren missed.

Furthermore, Jiren's dialogue makes all the more sense when you interpret UI Goku's style as exploiting Jiren's open/blind spots.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:36 pm

LightBing wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:01 pm
HeroR wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:02 am
LightBing wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm
In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.

UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.

He is hitting harder, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hurt Jiren. Just dodge since Goku at his max couldn't do a thing against Jiren.
"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.

Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.

The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.

Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.
As we have seen in Dragon Ball, even if Goku was hitting weak spots, it wouldn't done anything if his power didn't go up since Jiren was tanking blows from even Vegeta's new Blue form. So yes, Goku hit harder in UI.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:26 am

HeroR wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:36 pm
As we have seen in Dragon Ball, even if Goku was hitting weak spots, it wouldn't done anything if his power didn't go up since Jiren was tanking blows from even Vegeta's new Blue form. So yes, Goku hit harder in UI.
What I've seen in Dragon Ball is weaker characters doing damage to stronger ones when their guard isn't up. This usually never results on a win because immediately the stronger character stops messing around and/or the damage isn't enough.

Ex: Yamcha's Spirit ball vs Kami, Piccolo kicking Freeza, Vegeta vs Cell, hell Kuririn throwing panties to distract Jackie Chun almost won him the match and it was the only hit he landed.

Tanking blows is the opposite of what Jiren was doing against UI Goku, the comparison has nothing to with this...
By tanking Jiren had no weakness exposed, against Goku he was being taken advantage of.
He would have won or at least tied if all he did was tank but since the time was running out he was forced to attack.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:08 am

Rakurai wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:47 am
You'd be better off waiting for Lee to start writing that Jump Force manga.
really? I didn't know, it sounds interesting
LightBing wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:01 pm
"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.

Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.

The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.

Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.
I not think see any sense that the UI does not make you more powerful but if it were not, I would not have the power to hurt Jiren and if it were not faster I could not avoid Jiren, even though I have the ability to evade.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:49 am

LightBing wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 10:26 am
HeroR wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:36 pm
As we have seen in Dragon Ball, even if Goku was hitting weak spots, it wouldn't done anything if his power didn't go up since Jiren was tanking blows from even Vegeta's new Blue form. So yes, Goku hit harder in UI.
What I've seen in Dragon Ball is weaker characters doing damage to stronger ones when their guard isn't up. This usually never results on a win because immediately the stronger character stops messing around and/or the damage isn't enough.

Ex: Yamcha's Spirit ball vs Kami, Piccolo kicking Freeza, Vegeta vs Cell, hell Kuririn throwing panties to distract Jackie Chun almost won him the match and it was the only hit he landed.

Tanking blows is the opposite of what Jiren was doing against UI Goku, the comparison has nothing to with this...
By tanking Jiren had no weakness exposed, against Goku he was being taken advantage of.
He would have won or at least tied if all he did was tank but since the time was running out he was forced to attack.
So you're saying that Jiren's guard wasn't up while facing UI Goku when Jiren himself said that he always fight at his best to Vegeta? Because those situations you named is specifically when the person put their guard down, now when someone strikes them in mid-combat.

The point is that Vegeta even with his power-up couldn't damaged Jiren despite Jiren being surprised by the power-up, yet UI Goku floored him in a few hits. So even if we say UI Goku was only as strong as a power-up Vegeta in his new form, that still makes UI a power-up since Vegeta's new form is beyond Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:12 am

Does anyone have an image of the full DBS manga spineart up to the current volume? I could only find one online going up to volume 5 so it's missing volumes 6-9. Thanks.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:57 pm

Honestly, that could be very well just Jiren whining because Goku's attacks are now hurting him.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:26 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:08 am
Rakurai wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 9:47 am
You'd be better off waiting for Lee to start writing that Jump Force manga.
really? I didn't know, it sounds interesting
I was being sarcastic...
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:08 am
LightBing wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:01 pm
"Attacks that explore openings aren't true strength" said by Jiren while getting his ass handled. Most of Goku's attacks are clearly counter-attacks which translate this idea into battle.

Nobody, ever, said Goku got stronger or hits harder. Ultra Instinct isn't a power up in the normal sense, it would go against the thematic of the arc.

The whole dispute of Goku's and Jiren's characters is one blindly pursing power while the other with the help of his master(Muten Roshi) and all other ones he had in the past understands power isn't the solution.
There's another theme where teamwork matches pure power as well.

Goku doesn't hit harder, he hits better.


I not think see any sense that the UI does not make you more powerful but if it were not, I would not have the power to hurt Jiren and if it were not faster I could not avoid Jiren, even though I have the ability to evade.
The way that Ultra Instinct has always been described is not as a power boost. UI Goku was counterattacking Jiren, in other words hitting Jiren when his guard was down. Of course, it wasn't always the case that he could get an effective hit simply because Jiren could tank them some time after the blows connected.

Skar wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:12 am
Does anyone have an image of the full DBS manga spineart up to the current volume? I could only find one online going up to volume 5 so it's missing volumes 6-9. Thanks.
Here's my DBS manga collection. It's missing the special Vol. 5 cover with FTrunks in it, but it is what it is.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:51 pm

Thani wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:57 pm
Honestly, that could be very well just Jiren whining because Goku's attacks are now hurting him.
It's clear that Goku's attacks are hurting him or at least having an effect, there's no doubt about that. But it's UI Goku's fighting style, coupled with the fact that he says this:

"Attacks that exploit openings in an opponent... is not true strength!"

that leads Jiren to whine. And it's all what UI is about.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:24 pm

I think a lot of the issue here is people are conflating anime Jiren with manga Jiren. They're two VERY different characters, and anime Jiren is far stronger. In the manga, Jiren has to actually try while fighting people, and isn't portrayed as being insurmountable. In fact, when he fought Hit he won by exploiting an opening for a split second, instead of just overwhelming him with force like in the anime.

To put this into arbitrary numerical scales (because that always goes well in dragonball discussion, amirite?), Anime Jiren is a 10 while everyone else are 6s; Manga Jiren is a 10 while everyone else are 8s and 9s.

Anyway, when Goku went Ultra Instinct (in the manga), he didn't get a power boost. Jiren was already taking damage from blue-level fighters before Goku transformed, so it wasn't an increase in power that made Jiren start losing, but a change in technique. Goku always had the power necessary to hurt him. Even with Ultra Instinct, Jiren was still powerful enough to match up against Goku by using pure brute force.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:57 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:26 pm
Here's my DBS manga collection. It's missing the special Vol. 5 cover with FTrunks in it, but it is what it is.
Thanks! I was curious if all seven Dragonballs had appeared in the spineart by now. Is it possible that the manga is coming to an end soon? I suppose it depends on the spineart of next two volumes. If they complete the image for Champa, Vados, and Hit without showing other characters then that might be it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Chuquita » Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:37 pm

I'm kind of curious as to if at some point before the anime returns they would try to have Toyotaro alter his artstyle to more closely match Shintani's new look for the franchise.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Akamay » Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:10 pm

Chuquita wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:37 pm
I'm kind of curious as to if at some point before the anime returns they would try to have Toyotaro alter his artstyle to more closely match Shintani's new look for the franchise.
I don't think Toyotaro was following Yamamuro's style, there is not really a reason for him to follow Shintani's either.
For as much as people tend to bash him about the manga, it's not like his art is horrendous.
As long as his stuff is consistent, it should be fine, I guess?

If he does indeed end up changing up his style, I'd say it'd be more gradual, kinda like how Toriyama took years to change up how he draws stuff.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:08 pm

What are you guys predictions for this arc climax?

You think Moro might just end up in a prison so Lula could break free and reveal himself to be the real threat?

Lord Beerus wrote:
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The anime may have beaten Toyotaro to punch and shown the wonderfully whimsical combat capabilities of Majin Boo, but that didn't make Majin Boo beat-down of Moro any less great to watch.
Oh for sure, like a SSJ3-tier at best being able to push a guy that handled both blue Gods Goku and Vegeta is totally fine.
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So can anyone tell me why Dragon Ball Super only releases a chapter once a month and not every 2 weeks?
Because it's a promotional work only.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:27 pm

Noah wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:08 pm
Oh for sure, like a SSJ3-tier at best being able to push a guy that handled both blue Gods Goku and Vegeta is totally fine
You missed how Buu got a power boost from unlocking Dai Kai's memories inside him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:00 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:27 pm
You missed how Buu got a power boost from unlocking Dai Kai's memories inside him.
And suddenly Dai Kai is God-tier? Why let himself to be absorbed by Boo? Why not just end the conflict when he could? This just brings a plot hole.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:46 pm

Noah wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:00 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:27 pm
You missed how Buu got a power boost from unlocking Dai Kai's memories inside him.
And suddenly Dai Kai is God-tier? Why let himself to be absorbed by Boo? Why not just end the conflict when he could? This just brings a plot hole.
Releasing Dai Kai's memories awakened BUU's latent power, not Dai Kai's.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:34 pm

Noah wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:08 pm
You think Moro might just end up in a prison so Lula could break free and reveal himself to be the real threat?
Holy Shit, I think that was the best sentence about this arc I've ever read hahahaha

About Buu, well, Daikaioshin indeed WAS "God-tier" before beating Moro the first time. But after sacrificing most of his power, he became weaker than South Kaioshin and, thus, vulnerable to Buu.

I think it's both. Since Good Buu still has both Kaioshin inside of him, plus being physically the same kind of being as the original Majin Buu, he has a lot of potential power. He probably regained some power from both kais, plus unlocking his own inner potential, PLUS being virtually immune to most of Moro's spells (remember tho, he was physically impaled by Moro, which suggest they are physically close enough that one can harm the other). All that combined with his regeneration allowed him to overwhelm Moro, methinks

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Mon Jun 17, 2019 1:42 am

All I'm saying is this arc better not be anywhere near a climax. If anything, this should be the first act setting up the interesting stuff to come. Otherwise, it'll easily be the worst manga arc.
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