"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:36 am

sora_02 wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:54 pm
The saiyan can not breathe in space, but the battle of Goku vs bills was in space and when Bardock tries to prevent Frieza from destroying the planet Vejita

The child is the new patriarch so porunga did not disappear, Uub will have taken the divine part of kid Boo? and we stay in them without knowing what the third wish is
Goku and Beerus were still in the stratosphere as officially stated by Toriyama.

Also, it was outright said several times that Saiyans can't breath in space. That was how Freeza tried to kill Goku on Namek after he became a Super Saiyan.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:47 am

HeroR wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:30 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:18 pm
HeroR wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:37 pm


What made Freeza work despite being shallow was his personality. He acted polite, calm, and complimented strong people. However, under that polite facade was a brutal, sadistic, asshole.

That and again, we know Freeza’s motive. He wasn’t completely evil for the sake of evil since he ran a business and wanted to live forever. The business is utter BS, but at the end of the day Freeza is a restate agent.

Also, it is a Toyo problem since Toriyama also wrote Beerus, new Broly, and his father. Heck, even Freeza has layer as seen in Resurrection ‘F’, TOP, and Broly Showing he can make layered villains. Toyo showed that he really can’t.
The discussion is not about what makes Freeza work as a villain, but rather that the fact that the author does not explore his past or his motivations does not mean that it is a negative point, because that is what Toriyama did with Freeza. He is cruel, genocidal and wants to rule the whole universe, why? This has never been explored, Frieza is just a charismatic villain, but he is not someone with several layers (not even in RoF). It's not like Naruto's villains. By the way, does Broly and her father have multiple layers? Much of this is only in the imaginary of the people who super analyze the character only because now he is canonical. As an antagonist he did exactly the same as the old Broly, boring and without personality.

And the model of the villains of Toyotaro is similar to that of the Toriyama. This is just being criticized because they use Zamasu's anime to compare as if he were an example of villain as complex as they say
Even ignoring what makes Freeza works, we knew his goals and why he did what he did. Which is more than we can say about Moro where we don't know why he does what he does other than he wants to eat planets. He did have layers in Resurrection 'F' since as Freeza himself said, he never had to work for anything in his life and Resurrection 'F' was the first time he ever buckled down trained instead of just relying on his natural talent. Which is again, more than we got from Moro.

Yes. Broly's dad was abusive jerk to Broly, but at the same time you can see that he did care and love his son in his own twisted way and a lot of what he did was to keep Broly from killing himself and him. He went too far, but you understood why he reached that point. Broly is more less a boy in a grown man body who has been controlled and used by his father all his life and his devoted to him despite being aware that his father doesn't treat him right. He's probably one of the more realistic portrayal of an abused victim. There is no way you're going to tell me that either character is like their old counterparts, especially Broly.

Toyo is poor model of Toriyama's old style and Toriyama himself doesn't even used that template anymore. And who's 'they'. You're just going to ignore that Toriyama personally wrote Beerus who was more complex than 'evil god'. Same with Hit who is an assassin by trade, but probably one of the most honorable characters in Dragon Ball? This is reversion history to try to justice why Toyo's villains are so lackluster.
That line "Which is more than we got from Moro" does two things wrong. One, the information you described was over an entire arc and a movie. You really expect anyone, let alone someone who has clear problems with his writing to be able to write a one arc story to match that? If so, your expectations are the issue and not the arc. Second, depending on what Moro's wish was this arc could go on for a few chapters more anyway, so you using past tense terms is also wrong. The better way to say that would be "Which is more than we have got from Moro so far."


I have heard people argue this with me, but I have a strong belief that the only reason that Broly's character was so good in the Broly movie is because all they had to do was fix the old one. Think about it, everything that people commonly say could have been better for Broly was done. Have Broly have a grudge against Vegeta instead of Goku. Have a decent backstory and reason why he survived Vegeta. His character was so good because they didn't' have to write it from scratch, they just had to fix the old one. Same goes for Paragus.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:22 pm

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:28 pm
OLKv3 wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:36 pm
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:47 pm
I have to comment on Merus knowing about Buu splitting into his good and evil half's. They could have easily justified this by having Merus mention hearing of this from the Galactic Patrol files or from them poking around in Buu's Memories. Any of that is better than Merus just knowing what happened before.
Merus is still mysterious. We still didn't learn anything about him.
I personally think he's a god or magician who's just using the galactic patrol as cover
They have hinted at none of that and I think what we have is what we are going to get unless something happens next chapter to change that.
His first two appearances definitely had hints that he's not normal.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:19 pm

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:47 pm
I have to comment on Merus knowing about Buu splitting into his good and evil half's. They could have easily justified this by having Merus mention hearing of this from the Galactic Patrol files or from them poking around in Buu's Memories. Any of that is better than Merus just knowing what happened before.
The galactic police monitored Moro's battle against Dai Kai, later knew Dai Kai was absorbed by Buu, so why wouldn't the cosmic police force have info on Buu splitting into good and evil Buu? It simply goes without saying how they know these things.
emperior wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:33 am
sangofe wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:26 am
So do we know if this moro arc is a Toyotaro exclusive story?
Considering how un-Dragon Ball it feels like, how it’s still essentially fillerish as it doesn’t add much to the lore and how Goku is completely irrilevant to the plot as of right now, aside from being able to teleport, I would say that this is definitely a Toyotaro exclusive with Toriyama just approving this stuff because it’s tolerable and doesn’t hurt the series in any way.
Toriyama is probably focusing on his next project. And the slow pace of this arc I think is being done on purpose to buy time for the anime to return/Toriyama to finish his next story/whatever motivation.
Agreed. It doesn't feel like Toriyama. The slow pacing and the dragged out stalling isn't Toriyama's style.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:18 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:19 pm
The galactic police monitored Moro's battle against Dai Kai, later knew Dai Kai was absorbed by Buu, so why wouldn't the cosmic police force have info on Buu splitting into good and evil Buu?
Because they don't seem to know anything else about the Buu Saga, it seems like a weirdly specific detail to know while still not knowing any of the other context that's with it.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:10 pm

Kanassa wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:18 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:19 pm
The galactic police monitored Moro's battle against Dai Kai, later knew Dai Kai was absorbed by Buu, so why wouldn't the cosmic police force have info on Buu splitting into good and evil Buu?
Because they don't seem to know anything else about the Buu Saga, it seems like a weirdly specific detail to know while still not knowing any of the other context that's with it.
They knew the specific backstory of Buu saga where Dai Kai was absorbed by Buu. They knew the history on the danger Moro presented. They even knew a baby Saiyan was sent to earth. So how does it seem the cosmic police would not know about the intricacies of Buu splitting?

I think it's redundant for the police of the universe having to justify why they have such info on such persons/events.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:01 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:10 pm
They knew the specific backstory of Buu saga where Dai Kai was absorbed by Buu. They knew the history on the danger Moro presented. They even knew a baby Saiyan was sent to earth. So how does it seem the cosmic police would not know about the intricacies of Buu splitting?

I think it's redundant for the police of the universe having to justify why they have such info on such persons/events.
They were apparently watching or had someone who witnessed that specific part of the Buu Saga where Buu split, but somehow didn't know about any of the other events in the Buu Saga?

And how does that justify them knowing the intricacies of Buu splitting? The Buu Saga was the only time it happened. The Kais didn't know, Bibidy didn't know, Babidi didn't know, only Buu seemed to know about how his own body worked until the Z-Fighters fought him and found out for themselves.

They have enough omniscience to know of specific events they have no way of knowing and yet at the same time don't have that same knowledge for the other shit that happened in the same event?
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:47 am

Kanassa wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:01 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:10 pm
They knew the specific backstory of Buu saga where Dai Kai was absorbed by Buu. They knew the history on the danger Moro presented. They even knew a baby Saiyan was sent to earth. So how does it seem the cosmic police would not know about the intricacies of Buu splitting?

I think it's redundant for the police of the universe having to justify why they have such info on such persons/events.
They were apparently watching or had someone who witnessed that specific part of the Buu Saga where Buu split, but somehow didn't know about any of the other events in the Buu Saga?

And how does that justify them knowing the intricacies of Buu splitting? The Buu Saga was the only time it happened. The Kais didn't know, Bibidy didn't know, Babidi didn't know, only Buu seemed to know about how his own body worked until the Z-Fighters fought him and found out for themselves.

They have enough omniscience to know of specific events they have no way of knowing and yet at the same time don't have that same knowledge for the other shit that happened in the same event?
First off, who’s to say they DON’T know about other shit that happened during the Buu saga? Just because other events of the arc aren’t being brought up doesn’t mean they dont know about it.

Second off, as I've said before, between Godtube, Zuno, the Galactic Patrol monitoring the goings on of the Universe, their connecting with the Kaioshin, and Jaco having Earth connections, there are many ways they could have found out about such major events.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:02 am

AnimeNation101 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:47 am

First off, who’s to say they DON’T know about other shit that happened during the Buu saga? Just because other events of the arc aren’t being brought up doesn’t mean they dont know about it.

Second off, as I've said before, between Godtube, Zuno, the Galactic Patrol monitoring the goings on of the Universe, their connecting with the Kaioshin, and Jaco having Earth connections, there are many ways they could have found out about such major events.
Their lack of knowledge of Vegeta and Goku's involvement and power, their surprise at Buu's actual abilities and the general selective ignorance they've displayed. Outside of Buu splitting into good and evil buu they don't know shit.

Which one of those lets them witness the one and only instance of Buu's split?
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


Obligitory Fan Fic Plug: Dragon Ball - Another Road
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by AnimeNation101 » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:07 am

Kanassa wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:02 am
AnimeNation101 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:47 am

First off, who’s to say they DON’T know about other shit that happened during the Buu saga? Just because other events of the arc aren’t being brought up doesn’t mean they dont know about it.

Second off, as I've said before, between Godtube, Zuno, the Galactic Patrol monitoring the goings on of the Universe, their connecting with the Kaioshin, and Jaco having Earth connections, there are many ways they could have found out about such major events.
Their lack of knowledge of Vegeta and Goku's involvement and power, their surprise at Buu's actual abilities and the general selective ignorance they've displayed. Outside of Buu splitting into good and evil buu they don't know shit.

Which one of those lets them witness the one and only instance of Buu's split?
You claim that they’ve shown such ignorance but I ask, when? When in this arc has Merus been surprised by Goku and Vegeta’s involvement and power, and Buu’s abilities?

As I remember it, Merus knows who Goku and Vegeta are already when he comes to Earth and he even takes them with him which shows that he knows that they’re powerful. And Merus when he sees Buu in action is implied to be more surprised by how well Buu is doing against Moro and less about how wacky his abilities are (thats more of what Jaco is reacting to).

What other instances have Merus showing off ignorance. And I keep only mentioning Merus because as far as we know, he’s the only one who knew about Buu split thing.
I called it that Gogeta, Bardock, and something Broly related would be in the movie before it was even announced that it was a Broly movie. 8)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:35 pm

AnimeNation101 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:07 am
Kanassa wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:02 am
AnimeNation101 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:47 am

First off, who’s to say they DON’T know about other shit that happened during the Buu saga? Just because other events of the arc aren’t being brought up doesn’t mean they dont know about it.

Second off, as I've said before, between Godtube, Zuno, the Galactic Patrol monitoring the goings on of the Universe, their connecting with the Kaioshin, and Jaco having Earth connections, there are many ways they could have found out about such major events.
Their lack of knowledge of Vegeta and Goku's involvement and power, their surprise at Buu's actual abilities and the general selective ignorance they've displayed. Outside of Buu splitting into good and evil buu they don't know shit.

Which one of those lets them witness the one and only instance of Buu's split?
You claim that they’ve shown such ignorance but I ask, when? When in this arc has Merus been surprised by Goku and Vegeta’s involvement and power, and Buu’s abilities?

As I remember it, Merus knows who Goku and Vegeta are already when he comes to Earth and he even takes them with him which shows that he knows that they’re powerful. And Merus when he sees Buu in action is implied to be more surprised by how well Buu is doing against Moro and less about how wacky his abilities are (thats more of what Jaco is reacting to).

What other instances have Merus showing off ignorance. And I keep only mentioning Merus because as far as we know, he’s the only one who knew about Buu split thing.
Animenation101 is absolutely right Kanassa. Just because Merus doesn't talk about other events from the Buu saga doesn't mean they don't know about it. Dai Kai is the subject and who is important to the current situation. It's only relevant to stay on topic where stopping Moro is concerned.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Murjin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:32 pm

So will Moro be killed in this arc or will he be spared or sealed away again for another time?

If he is to die and not survive past this arc; who will be the one to end him?

Goku
Vegeta
Broly
Majin Buu/Dai Kaioshin
Beerus
Merus
Whis
Gogeta
Vegetto

:think:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sintzu » Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:04 am

Super Murjin wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:32 pm
So will Moro be killed in this arc or will he be spared or sealed away again for another time?

If he is to die and not survive past this arc; who will be the one to end him?

Goku
Vegeta
Broly
Majin Buu/Dai Kaioshin
Beerus
Merus
Whis
Gogeta
Vegetto

:think:
I highly doubt Merus will do it. I'm also ruling out fusion. Beerus and Whis are barely in the story so they're unlikely. Broly wasn't even mentioned so he won't show up out of nowhere just to kill the villain. Vegeta is probably being saved for a Sadal arc. It's down to Goku and Buu/Kaioshin. With the build up Kaioshin has gotten, I think he may be the one to end Moro.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Super Murjin » Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:22 pm

sintzu wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:04 am
Super Murjin wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:32 pm
So will Moro be killed in this arc or will he be spared or sealed away again for another time?

If he is to die and not survive past this arc; who will be the one to end him?

Goku
Vegeta
Broly
Majin Buu/Dai Kaioshin
Beerus
Merus
Whis
Gogeta
Vegetto

:think:
I highly doubt Merus will do it. I'm also ruling out fusion. Beerus and Whis are barely in the story so they're unlikely. Broly wasn't even mentioned so he won't show up out of nowhere just to kill the villain. Vegeta is probably being saved for a Sadal arc. It's down to Goku and Buu/Kaioshin. With the build up Kaioshin has gotten, I think he may be the one to end Moro.
I agree :thumbup:

However if the arc goes on abit longer and the battle moves on from New Namek to let's say Vampa or Beerus' planet ... that would change things.

If Whis and Beerus jump in later maybe they will use the sealing technique mentioned back at the end of the Future Trunks arc or maybe they will teach it to Vegeta, Dai Kaioshin and Goku :think:

This is assuming that Moro wished for immortality.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 pm

One thing I like about this arc is that, in a way, Merus is the main character. He hasn't had the most page time, but I like the idea that Goku and Vegeta are intruding on his story. The arc has been about Merus' mission to recapture Moro. He was planning on doing it without Goku/Vegeta's help in the first place. While he was happy to have the help of the Saiyans, they haven't accomplished much up until now. They intercepted Moro prematurely and allowed their energy to be absorbed. Merus' plans and actions have had the most effect in terms of cornering Moro and pissing him off. I don't know where this arc will go from here, but I think there's a good chance that Merus will be the one to seal the deal in the end.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jun 25, 2019 4:53 pm

Perhaps someone can help me here because I'm a little rusty: was it stated already who, why, what or how did Moro get some of his magic back so he could break out of the prison?
he got it back a few years ago before the actual escape, implying it might have been something caused by the time Boo showed up, be it his awakening, his death, splitting in two, rebirth as Uub or else.
Was this adressed again? this Kid Boo god ki reveal could be linked to Moro's escape?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:18 pm

Oh great, another fight with Moro.

How interesting.

And now the wish he made last chapter that was being played as a mystery is already being brought up, not even a full chapter later?

Does Merus have any flaws? He's Future Trunks if Future Trunks had remained as "badass" as he was after he beat Frieza. He spent the rest of the arc being outmatched, outsmarted and talked down to. It kept him from being a (for lack of a better term) Mary Sue. That's Merus right now. Thoroughly uninteresting and good at everything he does. He hasn't done a single thing that makes me think "Wow, this arc couldn't have worked without him."

This is shaping up to be the worst, most boring arc since DB started getting new content again with Battle of Gods. This is a Toei movie with extra steps.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:18 pm

batistabus wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:56 pm
One thing I like about this arc is that, in a way, Merus is the main character. He hasn't had the most page time, but I like the idea that Goku and Vegeta are intruding on his story. The arc has been about Merus' mission to recapture Moro. He was planning on doing it without Goku/Vegeta's help in the first place. While he was happy to have the help of the Saiyans, they haven't accomplished much up until now. They intercepted Moro prematurely and allowed their energy to be absorbed. Merus' plans and actions have had the most effect in terms of cornering Moro and pissing him off. I don't know where this arc will go from here, but I think there's a good chance that Merus will be the one to seal the deal in the end.

It doesn’t sound like everyone else would but I actually would enjoy that sort of twist

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:37 am

I’m glad I’m not the only one who is absolutely disliking this arc under basically every aspect.
I was starting to be under the impression that maybe I started to grow a dislike for Dragon Ball itself considering how overhyped this new manga arc is by the majority of the fandom.
Surely not having a weekly series going on has been slowly killing my hype, but this arc being so boring is only making things worse. It doesn’t help how awfully paced it has been so far, it’s so obvious that Toyotaro has been buying time because the higher-ups still haven’t decided just what the fuck they have to do regarding Dragon Ball’s future (and most importantly, regarding the future of this manga), or probably already have and are forcing him to slow things down.
I just can’t wait for this arc to be over to see what comes next, and hopefully it will be a story written by Toriyama, even if just an outline.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Chuquita » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:26 am

emperior wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:37 am
I’m glad I’m not the only one who is absolutely disliking this arc under basically every aspect.
I was starting to be under the impression that maybe I started to grow a dislike for Dragon Ball itself considering how overhyped this new manga arc is by the majority of the fandom.
Surely not having a weekly series going on has been slowly killing my hype, but this arc being so boring is only making things worse. It doesn’t help how awfully paced it has been so far, it’s so obvious that Toyotaro has been buying time because the higher-ups still haven’t decided just what the fuck they have to do regarding Dragon Ball’s future (and most importantly, regarding the future of this manga), or probably already have and are forcing him to slow things down.
I just can’t wait for this arc to be over to see what comes next, and hopefully it will be a story written by Toriyama, even if just an outline.
Agreeing with this. For me, for the most part, this arc's been a rough sit full of missed opportunities (I'd have liked to see Piccolo involved since the majority of this is taking place on Planet Namek and Moro completely retooled as I like the magic user concept behind him, but nothing else about him.).

It's difficult when there's new DB stuff coming out and I don't have much interest in it (neither this arc nor Heroes is doing much for me) but finding other things to do in place of some of that spare DB time helps. I've got two non-internet related projects going on in my life that I probably wouldn't have as much time for if I was as interested in the Moro arc as I was back during the early parts of the Goku Black arc.

I'm sure eventually those behind the scenes will get their plans together and resolve their differences so in the mean time I'm gonna continue doing what I have been because I don't know when DB's really coming back in weekly series form.
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