"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[CortoMaltese]

It's pretty clear than Meerus is an Angel.
Even if we don't talk about the similarities of the face, the fact that he master the ultra instinct is a big clue (a thing than Vegeta has seen the first), a skill that even the Hakaishin don't possess is the mark of an Angel !
Goku think that Meerus at full power can beat Moro.
As an angel, Meerus can't interfere with mortals, it's the reason why he use some tools like a pistol, because he didn't have the right to use his own strength.
It's the reason why he prefer to dodge Goku's attack !

The real question is why Meerus has joined the galactic patrol ?
He's pretty suspicious !
So several possiblities :
Meerus is an angel of an destroyed universe ?
Meerus is an fallen angel ?

[Noitsnothim]

I wonder if Merus is some form of angel. He could be a lower tier angel, or a "mortal" angel.

Not sure how Ultra Instinct would do against Moro, unless UI has a different source of energy, perhaps Moro would be unable to absorb his energy?

Many times during the TOP spectators mention that Goku is giving off a lot of extreme heat. It is possible his "energy" is not regular or godly ki. We know it is heat-based, so is it "heat ki" ??? If that is the case then not only would Goku have the auto dodge but also ki that can't be absorbed which would be huge against Moro.

I can't wait for next month's chapter.

I'm hoping Vegeta will not learn to teleport, that will be kinda lame. Hope he learns a new ability or technique, not a new saiyan form.

I've already predicted this theory long ago in the thread (I believe) Merus is a reincarnated angel and Moro is an ex God Of Destruction and reason why Merus is alive is because Moro hasn't died

Either that or the dude hails from one of the destroyed universes

[emperior]

Random and scattered thoughts about Chapter 51:

- Meerus is still draining planets and still hasn't got a single iota of charm or depth to his character. Meh.
- The Galactic King feeling naked without his crown cracked me up.
- Jaco is still very funny.
- Vegeta taking his own initiative to deal with Moro? That's... good. Vegeta wanting to achieve victory over Goku? That's...ugh. That's the sort of regressive shit I saw in the early stages of the Tournament of Power and it's a shame that kind of character writing is rearing its ugly head again. One step forward, one step back.
- Toyotaro is really pushing Meerus HARD. Like, he's getting a Roman Reigns level push.
- Is it wrong that I find Meerus' cronies more interesting than Meerus himself? I mean... maybe it's because Meerus has the personality of a cardboard box or that his life draining abilities have become very played out, but I just found the idea simple shit like committing a standard bank robbery, among the over-the-top spectacles that Dragon Ball set pieces and battle have mostly become, to be quite endearing primarily because they feel so down to Earth.
- I really hope the battle coming to Earth leads to more of the supporting getting significantly involved.

Overall... a decent chapter, if also feeling a bit bloated with the unnecessary showcasing of the shenanigans of Meerus' merry band of glorified jobbers.

I agree with every single word you wrote... except for the fact you are making some confusion between Merus’ name and Moro’s

[Super Murjin]

Merus has no staff and no ring around his neck, so it's possible he lost his angelic position or title.

Interesting that Whis nor Beerus seem to care about the Moro battle nor know nothing about Merus.

I'm almost 100% sure Merus is some form of angel, but not sure about Moro being an ex-G.O.D.

[Noitsnothim]

Merus has no staff and no ring around his neck, so it's possible he lost his angelic position or title.

Interesting that Whis nor Beerus seem to care about the Moro battle nor know nothing about Merus.

I'm almost 100% sure Merus is some form of angel, but not sure about Moro being an ex-G.O.D.

Merus's gotta be an angel from a destroyed Universe who joined the galactic patrol because he doesn't believe in purely staying neutral to a G.O.D and wants to give mortals a chance to survive or fight back against certain dire situations unlike whis who is 100% Neutral on whatever happens in his universe is meant to happen and can't change it

Merus knows UI (Goku knows he does he seen it for himself even Vegeta does knows it too) Whis did care for a minute but can't act on it and I think that also serves as an indicator that Merus is an angel who goes against what a Guide supposed to be

[Lord Beerus]

Random and scattered thoughts about Chapter 51:

- Meerus is still draining planets and still hasn't got a single iota of charm or depth to his character. Meh.
- The Galactic King feeling naked without his crown cracked me up.
- Jaco is still very funny.
- Vegeta taking his own initiative to deal with Moro? That's... good. Vegeta wanting to achieve victory over Goku? That's...ugh. That's the sort of regressive shit I saw in the early stages of the Tournament of Power and it's a shame that kind of character writing is rearing its ugly head again. One step forward, one step back.
- Toyotaro is really pushing Meerus HARD. Like, he's getting a Roman Reigns level push.
- Is it wrong that I find Meerus' cronies more interesting than Meerus himself? I mean... maybe it's because Meerus has the personality of a cardboard box or that his life draining abilities have become very played out, but I just found the idea simple shit like committing a standard bank robbery, among the over-the-top spectacles that Dragon Ball set pieces and battle have mostly become, to be quite endearing primarily because they feel so down to Earth.
- I really hope the battle coming to Earth leads to more of the supporting getting significantly involved.

Overall... a decent chapter, if also feeling a bit bloated with the unnecessary showcasing of the shenanigans of Meerus' merry band of glorified jobbers.

I agree with every single word you wrote... except for the fact you are making some confusion between Merus’ name and Moro’s

D'oh!

I'll go edit that.

[Tai Lung]

ok merus is already fed up ... I don't know what happens to toyotaro with him.

the rest seems acceptable to me ..

[Block88]

Merus has no staff and no ring around his neck, so it's possible he lost his angelic position or title.

Interesting that Whis nor Beerus seem to care about the Moro battle nor know nothing about Merus.

I'm almost 100% sure Merus is some form of angel, but not sure about Moro being an ex-G.O.D.

Not to mention merrus is skin is purple while the rest are blue
Right now things are unknown with merrus him being an angel is possible however is not guaranteed

[Block88]

It's pretty clear than Meerus is an Angel.
Even if we don't talk about the similarities of the face, the fact that he master the ultra instinct is a big clue (a thing than Vegeta has seen the first), a skill that even the Hakaishin don't possess is the mark of an Angel !
Goku think that Meerus at full power can beat Moro.
As an angel, Meerus can't interfere with mortals, it's the reason why he use some tools like a pistol, because he didn't have the right to use his own strength.
It's the reason why he prefer to dodge Goku's attack !

The real question is why Meerus has joined the galactic patrol ?
He's pretty suspicious !
So several possiblities :
Meerus is an angel of an destroyed universe ?
Meerus is an fallen angel ?

I don’t think goku said that?

[Gt91]

Moro could find broly's planet right?
In that case, it could be a great opportunity to see broly again

[Sani007]

I think this "Merus is an angel" theory is like when many people thought that the Great Priest is the real enemy of Universe Survival arc.

[Lord Beerus]

I really don't want Merus to be Angel or to have some kind of mystical or unique background. I just want him to be a capable member of the Galactic Patrol because he worked hard to strive to that standard.

Dragon Ball has relied too fucking much on gimmicky backgrounds to how character are as powerful as they are, that part of what made me appreciate Jiren to a degree is that he didn't have any biological advantage. He wasn't born from a particular race, or had artificially inserted upgrade or even trained under the best martial artist in the universe. He just worked hard for the majority of his life in the raw confines of combat and martial arts and reaped the rewards for it to become so absurdly strong that everyone feared and/or respected for it.

To place a cheap reasoning like Meerus being an Angel or shit like that would only add to Gary Stu-esque subtext of Merus' character that's been creeping in since a few chapter ago.

Just let Merus be himself, he doesn't need to be anymore special than already he is to prove a superficial point.

[Lionel]

If Merus doesn't have an angelic background, I'm incredulous about that idea as well, then some kind of explanation would be appreciated as to how he grew so strong. I mean other fans have brought up a good point about how for decades the Galactic Patrol quivered whenever Freeza's name got brought up, making sure to turn a glaringly blind eye to his misdeeds. Now we have Merus who is dimensions stronger than Buu arc Goku. Where was he previously at the height of Freeza's tyranny? Hopefully this doesn't end up like #17's vaguely defined "I trained" rationale for how he himself got so strong but it's looking like it at the moment.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I really don't want Merus to be Angel or to have some kind of mystical or unique background. I just want him to be a capable member of the Galactic Patrol because he worked hard to strive to that standard.

Dragon Ball has relied too fucking much on gimmicky backgrounds to how character are as powerful as they are, that part of what made me appreciate Jiren to a degree is that he didn't have any biological advantage. He wasn't born from a particular race, or had artificially inserted upgrade or even trained under the best martial artist in the universe. He just worked hard for the majority of his life in the raw confines of combat and martial arts and reaped the rewards for it to become so absurdly strong that everyone feared and/or respected for it.

To place a cheap reasoning like Meerus being an Angel or shit like that would only add to Gary Stu-esque subtext of Merus' character that's been creeping in since a few chapter ago.

Just let Merus be himself, he doesn't need to be anymore special than already he is to prove a superficial point.

Agreed. But be sure that Hit's Clone will probably make an appearance in the dubbed ToP

[Block88]

I think this "Merus is an angel" theory is like when many people thought that the Great Priest is the real enemy of Universe Survival arc.

And that why people need to wait and see

I really don't want Merus to be Angel or to have some kind of mystical or unique background. I just want him to be a capable member of the Galactic Patrol because he worked hard to strive to that standard.

Dragon Ball has relied too fucking much on gimmicky backgrounds to how character are as powerful as they are, that part of what made me appreciate Jiren to a degree is that he didn't have any biological advantage. He wasn't born from a particular race, or had artificially inserted upgrade or even trained under the best martial artist in the universe. He just worked hard for the majority of his life in the raw confines of combat and martial arts and reaped the rewards for it to become so absurdly strong that everyone feared and/or respected for it.

To place a cheap reasoning like Meerus being an Angel or shit like that would only add to Gary Stu-esque subtext of Merus' character that's been creeping in since a few chapter ago.

Just let Merus be himself, he doesn't need to be anymore special than already he is to prove a superficial point.

While I get you what your saying but the fact that goku and vegeta are like “who this guy and what’s he’s hiding kinda tells us there’s something going on with him that he ain’t telling us.

[FortuneSSJ]

- Chapter 51-

I love the way Toyotaro is using and developing DB world.
It was nice to see Pui Pui planet and race.

With some villains going to Earth, this may give a chance to other Z fighters to fight.

The only thing I don't like is Merus and it's already ridiculous how much Toyotaro is hyping him. I usually don't care about power levels, but the fight could have stopped when Goku used SSJ3. And now this guy will help Goku in mastering UI, because why not?!

[emperior]

The filler nature of this arc makes me quite sure that there’s no way Goku will be mastering Ultra Instinct here. Apart from the gags, this is clearly a Toyotaro arc which is shown by the designs of the new characters, which are clearly not Toriyama’s. The pace is also much slower than it has ever been in the manga, so either is Toyotaro terrible at pacing a story on his own, or he’s most likely being forced to take it slower because he can’t jump on the next arc, which is most likely a Toriyama-written one, until Toei releases or is close to release their new DB show.

Also not only would Goku mastering the technique of the Gods by training with Merus feel like a terrible fan fiction, it would be way too soon and would also completely devalue the worth of Whis as a teacher.
Instead, I have a hunch Goku will be learning the ”same principle” version of UI Roshi has and Merus seemingly has too. Not that it makes any sense but at least it will create an artificial progression towards Goku’s full achievement of the technique. This very rough version of UI could prove useful, in conjunction with whatever technique Vegeta will learn on Yardrat, to beat Moro.

[TKA]

Enjoyed this chapter 100%.

Clearly there’s a mystery with Merus and why he’s so perfect. That needs to be explained. Maybe him being a Mary Sue has actual plot relevance. Hopefully that’s where this is going.

It seems whatever Vegeta is going to learn on Yardrat will match Ultra Instinct.

Regardless, it’s a strange decision to have Vegeta declare in the Tournament of Power that he’ll do things his way from now on, give him a power boost from that, but then immediately have him needing to swallow his pride and go train with others again. The narrative calls it out, so it isn’t necessarily bad writing; it’s just strange writing that could prove to be interesting.

This arc has officially left Toei movie status and is now a real Dragonball arc. The structure harkens back to Piccolo Daimao, considering they fought the main villain so early. Hopefully this arc goes deep into next year so we can really flesh all this out.

By the arc’s end, I’ll have to reread it all and see if the structure makes sense. Those early chapters were a rough, boring slog. Maybe they’ll be better with hindsight.

I give it 5 moos out of 20 garlics.

Addendum:

In wrestling terminology, I popped so fucking hard for Planet Zoon and Pui Puis. What a pull. Oh man. That was great.

Final thing I’ll say about the structure is this. I’m wondering why Toyotaro had Moro kill the guy serving as his top henchman only to immediately introduce another character into that same role. Is it to show Moro is evil? Well we’ve seen him be evil for most of his time in the manga, so was it necessary? Who knows. Let’s see how all this unfolds.

[Kaiza_Toshiyuki]

I like how Moro is like Galactus and the escaped prisoners are like his hearalds, looking for worlds for Moro to eat.

I think people are kinda taking away the wrong thing from Goku vs Merus. This arc has done a pretty good job at establishing a theme of “skill over power” with Moro’s skill with his magic and Merus having skill to dodge and weaves Goku. With Goku learning from Merus and Vegeta learning some new skill from the yardratians this will bring this arc full circle.

[HeroR]

I like how Moro is like Galactus and the escaped prisoners are like his hearalds, looking for worlds for Moro to eat.

I think people are kinda taking away the wrong thing from Goku vs Merus. This arc has done a pretty good job at establishing a theme of “skill over power” with Moro’s skill with his magic and Merus having skill to dodge and weaves Goku. With Goku learning from Merus and Vegeta learning some new skill from the yardratians this will bring this arc full circle.

Except Moro uses his magic to get more powerful. So it really isn't skill over power. And the fact remains in Dragon Ball that skill means shit if the power different is too vast. Just look at Nappa vs all the Z- Fighters. This is why Roshi dodging Jiren was stupid.