"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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TKA
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:53 pm

Also, if we’re bringing back random GT designs, it’s time to bring Ledgic back. And don’t change a single thing about his shitty design. And don’t try to write him like he’s a real character.
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You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Batman is out there busting his ass to avenge Goku and you won't even go see him do it?!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:03 pm

Merus is clearly the Grand Priest. He told Whis that someday he'll visit U7 to have fun with Goku. This is his way. Amazing foreshadowing.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:16 pm

Merus is clearly X. Merus is clearly Y.

So far at least three people have said Merus is “clearly ____” and they’ve all been different.

But I guess the sheer fact a mystery in the story has people interested enough to be guessing is a good thing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:43 pm

Cranberry's death was a little rushed. I mean he helped Moro more than the prisoners did. Why killing him? Of course, to showcase that he is evil. But at least have Cranberry survive. Yes, and let him flee. Let him go to one of those old Freeza Force stations that he knew off. Perhaps someone can be there, as he did hear that some time ago Freeza was resurrected and had formed a substantial force from remnants. (not knowing of his second death and second revival though).

He goes there and finds no one. But given how the Freeza Force is being rebuilt again since the Broly movie, having soldiers run into him, in hopes of reclaiming old bases sounds good to me. Let them know of Cranberry's past and let them introduce him to Freeza. Tell him about the Saiyans. And Moro. This would be interesting.

Can't say I didn't like the way the prisoners did their thing around the galaxy though. That was fresh. And Moro then coming in to take the energy. They are more like very close partners with mutual interests rather than allies, with the prisoners only being cunning and smart and knowing that they have to respect Moro.

Anyway, another idea I had was that the return of the Grand Supreme Kai should have triggered Shin's soul. He should know that Daikaioshin returned even in the form of Buu. I still don't get why the 2 Supreme Kais were never extracted from Buu in the Galactic Patrol HQ, when it was clearly stated that they would do so. Bringing both back would serve a purpose. They would immediately leave for Namek and ask from Porunga to perhaps Revive the other 2 Supreme Kais. Moro would be pushed back much easier. But for the sake of plot, things could have progressed the same, granted. His wish etc.

For me, this chapter has unfathomable potential. Toyotaro has to do it within some boundaries though. I understand as much. But given how the Manga and the Anime have started to differ this much, I doubt that some wild concepts can't be pulled off. Damn, was actually anything of the things I presented extreme or radical.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Oracle » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:00 pm

If Meerus were an Angel, what would be his respective alcoholic beverage? Also for Moro if he were an ex GoD...?

Excited for the possibility of getting Gohan&Piccolo, Freeza and Broly involved.

Also where the hell is Beerus? :(

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:13 pm

Oracle wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:00 pm
If Meerus were an Angel, what would be his respective alcoholic beverage? Also for Moro if he were an ex GoD...?

Excited for the possibility of getting Gohan&Piccolo, Freeza and Broly involved.

Also where the hell is Beerus? :(
Merus also stands for wine (It's the name of a wine bottle)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:02 pm

OLKv3 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:03 pm
Merus is clearly the Grand Priest. He told Whis that someday he'll visit U7 to have fun with Goku. This is his way. Amazing foreshadowing.
this would a fantastic unexpected reveal if Heroes didn't do this kind of idea first so I think this idea isn't plausible plus it seems like Jaco's known Merus for a very long time

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:27 pm

I wonder if Merus is just stopping time like Hit. He's shown to be able to dodge anything, but has no feats of offensive power at all, and this arc is so laden with obscure internal call backs (e.g. Kaioshin said that there might be Metal-Men in his universe, and one of the escaped convicts appears to be just that) that I'd be surprised if this was never referenced:
Image
Vegeta not being able to see what Merus was doing on the train would make sense in this context too.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:28 pm

HeroR wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 pm
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:38 pm
I like how Moro is like Galactus and the escaped prisoners are like his hearalds, looking for worlds for Moro to eat.

I think people are kinda taking away the wrong thing from Goku vs Merus. This arc has done a pretty good job at establishing a theme of “skill over power” with Moro’s skill with his magic and Merus having skill to dodge and weaves Goku. With Goku learning from Merus and Vegeta learning some new skill from the yardratians this will bring this arc full circle.
Except Moro uses his magic to get more powerful. So it really isn't skill over power. And the fact remains in Dragon Ball that skill means shit if the power different is too vast. Just look at Nappa vs all the Z- Fighters. This is why Roshi dodging Jiren was stupid.
Yes, most of Moro's abilities are used for battle (because that's how DB works).

But he is not overcoming Goku and Vegeta by strength. Vegeta himself said that Moro is weaker than an SSB, however his ability to absorb energy and the allies he released from prison make him able to turn the tables on them.

The power gap between Tenshinhan - Cell was infinitely larger than the Tenshinhan - Nappa gap, but he still managed to hold Cell second form (and even hurt him) long enough for Android 16 and 18 to escape the island.

So even when the gap is too large, it is still possible for someone weaker to excel by using techniques. In Saiyan arc, a 2x difference was enough to one shot the enemy. But that changed a lot after Freeza arc, so this example of Tenshinhan and Nappa is not so valid now

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:35 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:28 pm
HeroR wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 pm
Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:38 pm
I like how Moro is like Galactus and the escaped prisoners are like his hearalds, looking for worlds for Moro to eat.

I think people are kinda taking away the wrong thing from Goku vs Merus. This arc has done a pretty good job at establishing a theme of “skill over power” with Moro’s skill with his magic and Merus having skill to dodge and weaves Goku. With Goku learning from Merus and Vegeta learning some new skill from the yardratians this will bring this arc full circle.
Except Moro uses his magic to get more powerful. So it really isn't skill over power. And the fact remains in Dragon Ball that skill means shit if the power different is too vast. Just look at Nappa vs all the Z- Fighters. This is why Roshi dodging Jiren was stupid.
Yes, most of Moro's abilities are used for battle (because that's how DB works).

But he is not overcoming Goku and Vegeta by strength. Vegeta himself said that Moro is weaker than an SSB, however his ability to absorb energy and the allies he released from prison make him able to turn the tables on them.

The power gap between Tenshinhan - Cell was infinitely larger than the Tenshinhan - Nappa gap, but he still managed to hold Cell second form (and even hurt him) long enough for Android 16 and 18 to escape the island.

So even when the gap is too large, it is still possible for someone weaker to excel by using techniques. In Saiyan arc, a 2x difference was enough to one shot the enemy. But that changed a lot after Freeza arc, so this example of Tenshinhan and Nappa is not so valid now
Again, reference Babidi about how you can do a magician type that isn’t fighting.

And you said it, stated out weaker than Blue and got stronger. That’s really no different from Black and Broly outside of Moro eating for his power. And his allies are fodder, so them turning the tables was forced.

And Tien damn near killed himself too.

It really didn’t changed after Freeza since techniques did shit to Cell and Goku only did so well because Cell held back.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:59 pm

HeroR wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:35 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:28 pm
HeroR wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:51 pm


Except Moro uses his magic to get more powerful. So it really isn't skill over power. And the fact remains in Dragon Ball that skill means shit if the power different is too vast. Just look at Nappa vs all the Z- Fighters. This is why Roshi dodging Jiren was stupid.
Yes, most of Moro's abilities are used for battle (because that's how DB works).

But he is not overcoming Goku and Vegeta by strength. Vegeta himself said that Moro is weaker than an SSB, however his ability to absorb energy and the allies he released from prison make him able to turn the tables on them.

The power gap between Tenshinhan - Cell was infinitely larger than the Tenshinhan - Nappa gap, but he still managed to hold Cell second form (and even hurt him) long enough for Android 16 and 18 to escape the island.

So even when the gap is too large, it is still possible for someone weaker to excel by using techniques. In Saiyan arc, a 2x difference was enough to one shot the enemy. But that changed a lot after Freeza arc, so this example of Tenshinhan and Nappa is not so valid now
Again, reference Babidi about how you can do a magician type that isn’t fighting.

And you said it, stated out weaker than Blue and got stronger. That’s really no different from Black and Broly outside of Moro eating for his power. And his allies are fodder, so them turning the tables was forced.

And Tien damn near killed himself too.

It really didn’t changed after Freeza since techniques did shit to Cell and Goku only did so well because Cell held back.
But Moro is a fighter type too, the difference being that he uses magic but uses it in combat.

I am not saying that he is a wizard who uses only techniques to overcome physical strength. He is strong, but not as strong as Goku and Vegeta. Normally, the two together would destroy him. But Moro has techniques that allow him to overcome his enemies without necessarily being stronger. And the strategy he used with the Dragon Balls also helped

And indeed, his allies would normally be fodder. But Moro's techniques are precisely what make him and his allies capable of facing both Saiyans (Vegeta said that without Moro's help, even Kid Trunks could deal with Saganbo).

And I'm saying that since Freeza arc, a big difference in strength doesn't mean much, because special techniques like Kikoho and Makankosappo are capable of affecting much stronger beings. That's why Tenshinhan and Nappa's example is not so valid now

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:15 pm

I just hope they give Merus a very thorough, in-depth background and reason for him being able to toy with a post ToP ssj3 Goku. Otherwise, there are questions like.." where the F has he been" If this guys has the dodge-haxz like he does and a stun gun that is more powerful than Frieza's goon's "God Killer Ring" :lol: then I hope they at least give a reason as to why he hasn't been doing his job as a galactic patrol man. They send Jaco to save the day and he is a comedic relief, I get it. Clearly you can't always have, or in Dragon ball, ever have, the foresight to see that far into the future and decide to have a patrol man give current Goku a run for his money...but basically....I just hope there is at least enough story behind who Merus is, why he hasn't been involved, etc. Otherwise it just devalues everything GOku and Vegeta have done this far and their progression seems so much less than what it really is. I think if they really explain why Merus is as good as he is, it could actually benefit Goku/Vegeta. I know Dbz did this too, with the Androids, and I thought it was garbage. SSJ is introduced and then some machines are made that can rival this legendary form, created by Gero of all people, the same guy who made machines that were fodder just years before. Buu on the other hand was perfect writing imo. A legendary monster of epic devastation, who was in a deep sleep. Anyway...

I just hope the story adds to the previous information, power structure, etc. Build on what you've already built, don't devalue and take away by just adding Merus-type characters just bc.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:08 am

Disappointing chapter to me. We've seen more from Meerus, he's better than us all expected, and it consists of basically two forces, Goku and Vegeta, moving their pawns to defeat Moro. It still didn't reveal exactly what Vegeta wants on Yardrat besides the vague "they employ various techniques" and part of the chapter was filled with Moro and his gang causing a ruckus on many planets. Moro looks younger, as well.

It seems the Merus vs Goku's sparring session emphasizes movements and the ability to dodge swiftly, that isn't dependant on battle power, which was the foundation of U.I and how Goku came to achieve it in the ToP.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:13 am

in all honesty I don't want Goku to master UI in this saga (I really don't) if anything I would like his body to start getting use to UI little by little and start adapting to it kinda like how Beerus utilized it in the Zen Exhibition match against the other Gods of Destruction

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:46 am

Vegeta randomly going to Yardrat to learn "interesting" techniques feels like a badly written plot device in the making, I don't like it at all.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:06 am

how long till people realize this Saga is actually not all that good? compared to the Tournament of Power it's great but to The Future Trunks Saga it's like whatever I feel like the pacing in the FT Saga was better

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TysonWine » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:32 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:46 am
Vegeta randomly going to Yardrat to learn "interesting" techniques feels like a badly written plot device in the making, I don't like it at all.
I don't like it either. Vegeta randomly decides to go to Yardrat because they may have a technique that could help him? It would've been better if Vegeta went to a new planet that he visited back in his days of serving Frieza. Maybe he would have to make amends for his past actions against that race, earn their trust, and then have them teach him a technique he's seen before hand. Now that I think about it, it would've made more since for Goku to have the idea, seeing as he's actually been there before. Maybe he knows they have a technique he didn't have time to learn or was incapable of learning in his less experienced days.

Toyotaru is such a fan. Yardrat would be the last thing on Toriyama's mind.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ahill1 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:34 am

If Goku's getting U.I in this arc, can this be the definitive and last arc of Super? I basically see U.I as the ultimate technique, mentioned since the beginning of the series... can't see there being something on top of it, or enemies that would be threatening with Goku tapping into it at will.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lukmendes » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:37 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:27 pm
I wonder if Merus is just stopping time like Hit. He's shown to be able to dodge anything, but has no feats of offensive power at all, and this arc is so laden with obscure internal call backs (e.g. Kaioshin said that there might be Metal-Men in his universe, and one of the escaped convicts appears to be just that) that I'd be surprised if this was never referenced:
Image
Vegeta not being able to see what Merus was doing on the train would make sense in this context too.
I dunno about that, if it was time skip then I think Goku would recognize it (Unless Toyotaro decided to make him not recognize it to keep Merus mysterious), a bit before Goku throws that first punch too, we can see Meerus looking at his hand before the punch, so it looks like he's just good at reacting, Goku wanting to train with Merus to maybe get UI again may hint towards that too, 'cause if Goku could learn how to dodge like him, then logicaly he could learn UI.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:55 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:13 pm
I really don't want Merus to be Angel or to have some kind of mystical or unique background. I just want him to be a capable member of the Galactic Patrol because he worked hard to strive to that standard.

Dragon Ball has relied too fucking much on gimmicky backgrounds to how character are as powerful as they are, that part of what made me appreciate Jiren to a degree is that he didn't have any biological advantage. He wasn't born from a particular race, or had artificially inserted upgrade or even trained under the best martial artist in the universe. He just worked hard for the majority of his life in the raw confines of combat and martial arts and reaped the rewards for it to become so absurdly strong that everyone feared and/or respected for it.

To place a cheap reasoning like Meerus being an Angel or shit like that would only add to Gary Stu-esque subtext of Merus' character that's been creeping in since a few chapter ago.

Just let Merus be himself, he doesn't need to be anymore special than already he is to prove a superficial point.
A minor, new, inoffensive and, for the moment, shallow character like Merus is a candidate Gary Stu. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Oh boy, the Internet these days.

Even if Merus happened to be a Angel hybrid or whatever, I don't see what's so bad about it really.
We're at a point where higher beings are a common sight. Eventually the Angels' lore should be tackled on, so it could be started by Merus.

And really, the guy hasn't done ANYTHING important. He's has just been dodging stuff left and right at some weird and uncanny levels, which are being pointed out by the story. That's IT.
A badly written Merus would've owned Moro in lieu on Buu and everyone would've pointed out how cool he is. That hasn't been the case, hasn't it?

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