"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Kaiza_Toshiyuki
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:58 am

Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:06 am
how long till people realize this Saga is actually not all that good? compared to the Tournament of Power it's great but to The Future Trunks Saga it's like whatever I feel like the pacing in the FT Saga was better
I personally see this as the best arc in super (broly excluded) simply because it’s interesting and draws me back in each chapter and gives me something to look forward too. The Goku black arc was really good throughout but that ending is almost so bad it ruins the whole arc for me. The tournament of power arc is just bad. Nothing more said.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:07 am

Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:06 am
how long till people realize this Saga is actually not all that good?
You know, when I was saying this arc sucked I would also post some pretty decent length write ups explaining where it fails. What you’ve posted here is useless, and pointless. Tell us why it’s not that good and let’s get a discussion started.

And please don’t say “pacing”. That is such an unsubstantiated, non-empirical metric that can only come down to “I don’t think it’s moving slow” or “I think it’s moving slow.”
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am

I think that based on Toyotaro using things from the past of dragon ball (Planet Yardrat, Planet Zoon , And the Daikaioshin), I think we should just take a moment to go scouring the old dragon ball and dragon ball z manga for little details that might have something to do with what’s going on currently in this arc.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:47 pm

At this point, I feel like Dragon Ball just hates Namek, it keeps genociding it's people and blowing it up.

Why do Moro's crew care about gathering resources? They're gonna be eaten and leading up to that what are they gonna need that shit for?

Every chapter always feels incomplete, as if the end of a chapter was cut to be the opening of the next.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:55 pm

Kaiza_Toshiyuki wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:50 am
I think that based on Toyotaro using things from the past of dragon ball (Planet Yardrat, Planet Zoon , And the Daikaioshin), I think we should just take a moment to go scouring the old dragon ball and dragon ball z manga for little details that might have something to do with what’s going on currently in this arc.
Yep. As Toyotoro likes to keep the story in continuity to Toriyama's Manga.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:38 pm

I didn't enjoy this chapter. Nothing really happened, some fanservice bringing back old planets, Vegeta is still travelling, Goku sparred with Merus, and Moro ate another planet, nothing substantial about the henchmen, I learned nothing new/interesting about them except those robbers having their own little agenda.They are pretty much still in the same place they were in the previous chapter: Vegeta is travelling, Goku not training yet, Moro eating planets. I was hoping Toyo shifted to the next gear in this one, specially with what's at stake and the urgency Merus presented in the beginning of the arc.

The only interesting thing was Merus showcasing his dodging ability but I waited a whole month for just that? some info or a little background would've been well received. I know the whole enchilada will come in the future, but still a little more of that and less of the boring fights between fodder natives and fodder henchmen would've made this chapter more enjoyable to me.
I would've loved to see Vegeta land in Yadrat and at least get started or know what new technique is he going to learn and how difficult it might be, or needing to gain yadratians trust before starting, instead of making faces in his room and promising to surpass Goku once again, or waste that many panels with the simple conquest of Planet Zun.

I don't think Merus is some sort of god/tenshi/GP, if that were the case why need Goku and Vegeta and Buu in the first place? not even Beerus would need them. Besides he can't track Moro without technology or breath in space, he wears a helmet, and I'm not sure about flying either, he uses those boosters from his shoes. It seems more like he has some form of UI and that's why Goku believes he can learn something from him. I don't think he'll end up being that strong either, although how come some non flying character can casually dispose of SS3 Goku? I hope his secret makes sense because there are things that don't add up as of now.

Things I liked: Moro's physical change, looking more menacing now, and his wish starts to make sense: he needed an army to get the planets "conquered" so he can eat them faster, and get them to rob for him, although I don't know why would he need money, fear was always the currency in DB. The planetary fanservice was nice too, and is a good way to include GT's planets.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:52 pm

Kanassa wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:47 pm
Why do Moro's crew care about gathering resources? They're gonna be eaten and leading up to that what are they gonna need that shit for?
Why do you care about waking up in the morning when you're just going to die eventually?

Why do anything?

Same logic applies here. They're criminals who love to steal, kill and destroy. They're doing what they love to do and Moro lets them do it. And I'm sure none of them expect him to kill them.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Captain Awesome » Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:12 pm

I actually enjoyed this chapter, I loved the Galactic King comedy stuff.

There were a few Goku drawings during his spar with Meerus that looked like a huge step up from Toyo's usual work too.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Block88 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:59 pm

I’m annoyed with vegeta acting pissy with goku as if we can’t have him not obsessed over goku at certain points.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:26 pm

TKA wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:52 pm
Kanassa wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:47 pm
Why do Moro's crew care about gathering resources? They're gonna be eaten and leading up to that what are they gonna need that shit for?
Why do you care about waking up in the morning when you're just going to die eventually?

Why do anything?

Same logic applies here. They're criminals who love to steal, kill and destroy. They're doing what they love to do and Moro lets them do it. And I'm sure none of them expect him to kill them.
Because I got shit to do? I don't think you've thought through your analogy.

Why do people steal money or anything really? To use what they're stealing in some way. So, why steal money when you're not going to use it in any way? They're pillaging and destroying the universe, they have no benefit or use of these resources.

They should expect him to kill them, or at least leave them to die since he announced his intention to devour the universe in the previous chapter. "Everything's gonna be destroyed in about a week, but I'm sure I'll need grocery money for that empty store I'm already gonna rob."
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:21 pm

I can understand why some people complain that the chapter seems incomplete and that they waited a long time not to see much. But this is probably due to the monthly nature of the manga. We always want big revelations because we only have 1 chapter a month, so when nothing happens, it seems like a bad thing. But these types of chapters are good for taking a break from fighting (which this bow has had almost all the time) and for setting characters and goals. Without that, everything looks rushed and just like another DBZ movie or filler arc
Kanassa wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:26 pm
TKA wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:52 pm
Kanassa wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:47 pm
Why do Moro's crew care about gathering resources? They're gonna be eaten and leading up to that what are they gonna need that shit for?
Why do you care about waking up in the morning when you're just going to die eventually?

Why do anything?

Same logic applies here. They're criminals who love to steal, kill and destroy. They're doing what they love to do and Moro lets them do it. And I'm sure none of them expect him to kill them.
Because I got shit to do? I don't think you've thought through your analogy.

Why do people steal money or anything really? To use what they're stealing in some way. So, why steal money when you're not going to use it in any way? They're pillaging and destroying the universe, they have no benefit or use of these resources.

They should expect him to kill them, or at least leave them to die since he announced his intention to devour the universe in the previous chapter. "Everything's gonna be destroyed in about a week, but I'm sure I'll need grocery money for that empty store I'm already gonna rob."
I think this Moro line actually suggests that he still has more mysteries to reveal. He wouldn't need money if he was just going to eat the whole galaxy or universe, so if he says he needs, there must be something

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:41 am

These chapters are not slow because it’s a monthly manga. Not when many chapters from Toyotaro in the past have been fine and, in fact, people hardly complained about the manga’s pacing in the past. Not that it was any perfect, and at times the pages got too cluttered with dialogue and useless panels (something I am gladly noticing Toyotaro is improving) but at least things were happening with a better sense of progression for the story, and with very little pointless fluff included.
The “it’s a monthly manga” excuse doesn’t hold up. It’s clearly Toyotaro’s fault for not being able to pace his story well. My theory is that he’s being forced to take it very slow because it can’t end too soon or else he would have to jump on the next arc which Toriyama probably has already written, but is being saved to either debut first on the anime or to be announced with it and debut around the same time for both the anime and manga.
Even if I am right, this wouldn’t excuse Toyotaro from adding pointless stuff.

The latest chapter has been admittedly one of the best paced as of lately. Things happened, the story has been (mostly) moved forward with seemingly important developments. But the same can’t be really said about the majority of this arc’s chapters. Especially when stuff like Buu’s involvement, which was hyped from the very first chapter of the story, has turned out to be useless now that Buu’s asleep and has barely accomplished anything besides healing Goku and Vegeta (who still were drained later by Moro without doing anything).
I could go on and on about how much fluff Toyotaro added each chapter. Even in this recent one, we have a pointless interaction between Vegeta and the GP guy.
I would have preferred it if Toyo cut that out completely to show at the end of the chapter the two arriving on Yardrat and Vegeta asking its inhabitants if they have a strange technique to beat Moro.

Hopefully next chapter will be full of interesting stuff happening like Vegeta’s training, Goku’s training and Earth warriors being attacked by those bandits.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:59 am

Chapter I enjoyed the most in a long time.

Is it just me or wouldn't the arc be much better if this was the start and the Namek bit after this?
Like:
-Moro escapes prison with the prisoners and starts attacking planets to get stronger.
- Merus and the Galactic Force get dodged/defeated until they need to resort to Boo.
- Merus "mystery" is introduced while fighting the same random thugs from the start, instead they aren't just stealing they are working for Moro.
- Moro learns of this, discovers New Namek.
- Namek battle without the little rematch(maybe even have Piccolo or someone else come along since there's grunts to fight). Goku and Vegeta lose, do their thing. Moro likewise.

Hoping the current set up's we have form into something good. Merus deal needs to be explained very well...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saturnine » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:52 am

I say both the latest chapter and this arc overall is quite excellent. Not only is it not super short, but it's allso well paced and what's most important - the events occur on a universal scale, making use of space and all the planets. Dragon Ball being too restricted to Earth post Freeza arc was a common complaint, even to the point where people appreciated GT for doing a space travel arc. This is much, much better than anything GT ever attempted or delivered.

Can't help but love the revisiting of planets we already know. New Namek, Zoon, and most importantly we're likely going to finally see Yardrat with our own eyes. That's pretty amazing if you think about it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Cold Skin » Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:57 pm

Merus could simply be a warrior that chose to focus all of his training on dodging/flowing, and none of it on strength since he uses weapons for that. Since he's not supposed to kill anyone in this path he's chosen, it would make sense that if he spent an undefined time training, ALL of his training for years would have been dodging and turning back the opponent's own strength against themselves only, since the rest can be handled with weapons.

And THAT is a kind of warrior that would be unprecedented, yet perfectly reachable for basic fighter-style mortals and ideal to train for Ultra Instinct.

Although his size and appearance would make him a perfect disguise for the Great Priest, it's also perfectly believable that Merus is just a strong fighter who entirely dedicated his skills to moving and dodging, leaving the rest to neutralizing weapons given the job he chose to have.

Of course, his appearance close to the Great Priest could also mean a "fallen" or rather deactivated angel - having lost the supreme power of angels but still retaining naturally their will to focus on movement and dodging -, which would go with the theory of Moro being a previous God of Destruction given his animal appearance typical of various gods of destruction.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:47 pm

Really liked the chapter.

Took me a second to get used to Moro without a beard, but we've known this was coming since the initial Dai Kaiōshin flashback.

I wonder what this means...

Some really nice tension between Goku and Merus. That hand-funnel technique Merus used was pretty awesome. This gag had me dying:

I really enjoyed the low key conversation between Vegeta and Irico. I'm pretty excited about what will come next for them.

My biggest concern going forward is Moro. I liked him early on, but he's a bit more straightforward than I was expecting. I thought this worked fine when he had a goofy sidekick to balance him out in Cranberi (like Jaco to Merus), but Saganbo doesn't play off of Moro nearly as well. I like Saganbo's design as an alien version of a '50s American prisoner, but I hope he amounts to more than just "thug boss".

Here's the question: does the next chapter take its time to show us Vegeta and Goku training, or do we just jump right back into the action after a short time skip? Really hoping for the former, but I'm prepared for the latter. The fact that there will likely be an earth subplot gives me hope that we'll get a bit more time to breathe before taking on Moro again.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:48 pm

it's disappointing to note that Toyo's DB artstyle hasn't improved one bit it's stayed and remained the same (Constantly) while his storytelling has leveled up a bit

Each Saga in the original DB run was followed by new art style and made each saga feel separate (which was great)

I still think Shueisha & Toriyama picked the wrong guy (They should've gone with DragonGarowlee) even if he writes slow his art still comes out looking great and more in line with Toriyama's original stuff (Plus it improves over time)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:59 pm

batistabus wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:47 pm

My biggest concern going forward is Moro. I liked him early on, but he's a bit more straightforward than I was expecting. I thought this worked fine when he had a goofy sidekick to balance him out in Cranberi (like Jaco to Merus), but Saganbo doesn't play off of Moro nearly as well. I like Saganbo's design as an alien version of a '50s American prisoner, but I hope he amounts to more than just "thug boss".
Always enjoy reading your thoughts on these chapters!

I don't think Saganbo needs to be more. All of these villains are just basic thugs and that's how the story presents them. I did mention, however, a few pages back that I wonder why Toyo chose to kill off Cranberry only to replace him with a character in a similar role. Especially after he gave Cranberry that hilarious backstory.

It's funny that just as you start disliking Moro, I start finding him intriguing. He skipped out on wishing for immortality and whatever his goal is, it's something he couldn't just wish for. It's a pretty weird set up that could pay off huge. I'm really interested in the places this story can go now.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kaiza_Toshiyuki » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:46 pm

To people who have issue with Toyotaro and what he is doing with merus, I don't think you have much to worry about conserning an explanation. I remember that in the chapter where Moro got his wishes, people were asking why the dragon didn't disapear when cranberri killed moori. Then at the start of the next chapter, it was the first thing explained. Similar things have happened too.

Chances are Toyotaro knows how big of a question he just raised and already has an answer for it.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:32 am

With the battle between Moro and the Galactic Patrol likely heading to Earth, and with the interaction between Goku and Merus suggesting that technique is more important than power, I think they're setting up the Z fighters to be recruited by the Galactic Patrol and become relevant again. I'd love to see a Galactic Patrol spin off series.

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