"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Tai Lung
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:57 pm

Miracles wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:47 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:36 pm

No, that is what you are doing when you speculate because they cannot use skills that they have not tried or mentioned.

It is not immortal, he feel pain and can not be regenerated his body ...
No the plot has Goku and Vegeta seek other alternatives. Despite other techniques they haven't used cause they won't work.
that the plot ignores these skills without mentioning them is what I criticize ... besides it doesn't explain why they don't work if we already saw that moro skills have limits

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:08 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:57 pm
Miracles wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:47 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:36 pm

No, that is what you are doing when you speculate because they cannot use skills that they have not tried or mentioned.

It is not immortal, he feel pain and can not be regenerated his body ...
No the plot has Goku and Vegeta seek other alternatives. Despite other techniques they haven't used cause they won't work.
that the plot ignores these skills without mentioning them is what I criticize ... besides it doesn't explain why they don't work if we already saw that moro skills have limits
The plot isn't ignoring them just cause it doesn't mention or use them. Goku and Vegeta seeking other means encompasses their entire skill set as useless against Moro.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Saiga » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:02 pm

Where was it said that Toriyama overlooked he storyboards for the Heroes and Yamcha mangas? I've never seen anything to suggest he had a level of involement with those.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm

emperior wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:26 pm
Issei189 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:55 am
When did Nagamine say that ? Can you post an interview because i don't recall him ever referencing or mentioning KK and SSBE's non-inclusion in the movie.
This is the interview I had in mind: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... interview/ but reading it again I probably remembered it wrongly. I don’t know whether or not Nagamine was referring to the quality of the battles when talking about breaking limits. Either way I apologise, I clearly remembered a different thing so unless that was translated by some snippets from some other obscure interview that hasn’t uploaded on the site yet, what I said was the false as there’s no mention of the limit-breaking forms.
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:25 am
———
First of all, please can you guys stop using the “Toriyama criticised the anime” argument? It makes no sense. In fact, the fact he decided to publicly criticise it means he cares about its quality - which is exactly what Toriyama said when he admitted that ever since Evolution Dragon Ball he has grown too fond of its creation which is why he can’t leave it alone.

Second, the fact Toriyama always found something that bugged him with the anime boards is something that goes back as far as the RoF arc/beginning of U6 arc, which is when the show was so bad he complained about it. Nothing suggests the same thing continued to happen all throughout Super’s run.
It also yet again confirms that he checked the anime, unlike what some people here claim.

As for the “Beerus asks Goku if he wants to become God of Destruction”, if you see the video you will see how Goku doesn’t answer Beerus. In fact Beerus casually mentions if Goku is training with the purpose of becoming a God of Destruction and then completely changes discussion and tells Goku he’s gotten too rusty.
Meanwhile in the manga, it’s basically the same thing and Goku even tells Beerus that he’s already told him many times about how he’s not interested in the role:
Also I don’t remember the Resurrection F movie having that same dialogue. The anime retelling for sure didn’t have it, by the way.
I'm not saying that Toriyama doesn't care about DB (if he didn't care he wouldn't have come back, since he himself said that DB had become a thing of the past for him until DB Evolution was released) or that he didn't check out the anime , but the fact is that we have much less information about his involvement in the show (Toyotaro himself said that Toriyama checks his storyboards and ideas, this is even before he started drawing the full chapter).

But since the anime has so much more time to fill in and Toriyama's script is vague, it would be hard for him to be involved in most of the show's events anyway, unlike the manga that is easier to supervise (at least for me).

About Beerus and Goku's Dialogue in the RoF movie
The only thing that has changed is that in DBS Broly Goku wants to get stronger because of the other universes and Vegeta fears that Freeza might get stronger, but Beerus had already asked that (at least in Toriyama's view), in the anime this is also strongly implied. So I don't think this somehow suggests that the movie follows the anime more than the manga.
Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:36 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:25 am
besides have already publicly criticized the anime
also criticized the manga claiming that the battles do not have enough impact
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:25 am
In Broly movie is shown several GoDs when Goku is speaking, and he just saw these gods fight in the manga.
in the anime he also saw the gods in the tournament and pre - tournament
nothing changes that he sees them fight or not, they are gods he know they are strong
I think this criticism from Toriyama was in an interview (where he's talking to Toyotaro), and it was his suggestions for Toyotaro to improve, it wasn't something done in the media to complain about manga problems (which I'm not saying doesn't exist, Toriyama also said he wanted Toyotaro to use more ideas of his own)

In the anime he never saw the GoDs fight. So this scene from the movie can't follow the logic that Goku was just talking about warriors he faced on ToP.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:21 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
I think this criticism from Toriyama was in an interview (where he's talking to Toyotaro), and it was his suggestions for Toyotaro to improve, it wasn't something done in the media to complain about manga problems (which I'm not saying doesn't exist, Toriyama also said he wanted Toyotaro to use more ideas of his own)
both are criticisms that are made so that something improves ... and really does not prove anything just that it is pending, the criticism was in FNF which did not matter followed its course after
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
In the anime he never saw the GoDs fight. So this scene from the movie can't follow the logic that Goku was just talking about warriors he faced on ToP.
Image

Image

yes, it can be
goku is talking about powerful people he met in the tournament.
all Hakaishin are powerful that are at the level of beerus and some of them rival the cat, Goku knows this, no matter if he didn't see them fight.
goku just faced ribrianne and recognized her power in the anime
goku just faced kefla in the anime
dyspo only had relevance in the anime
Goku says he can't stay in the same level because there were so many powerful guys in the tournament, this doesn't make sense in the manga because only Jiren was important to Goku, the others didn't present a challenge for him.

also the movie was made a year in advance is impossible to be based on the manga had to be the anime that was already advanced,

Image

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:45 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:21 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
I think this criticism from Toriyama was in an interview (where he's talking to Toyotaro), and it was his suggestions for Toyotaro to improve, it wasn't something done in the media to complain about manga problems (which I'm not saying doesn't exist, Toriyama also said he wanted Toyotaro to use more ideas of his own)
both are criticisms that are made so that something improves ... and really does not prove anything just that it is pending, the criticism was in FNF which did not matter followed its course after
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
In the anime he never saw the GoDs fight. So this scene from the movie can't follow the logic that Goku was just talking about warriors he faced on ToP.
Image

Image

yes, it can be
goku is talking about powerful people he met in the tournament.
all Hakaishin are powerful that are at the level of beerus and some of them rival the cat, Goku knows this, no matter if he didn't see them fight.
goku just faced ribrianne and recognized her power in the anime
goku just faced kefla in the anime
dyspo only had relevance in the anime
Goku says he can't stay in the same level because there were so many powerful guys in the tournament, this doesn't make sense in the manga because only Jiren was important to Goku, the others didn't present a challenge for him.

also the movie was made a year in advance is impossible to be based on the manga had to be the anime that was already advanced,

Image
You are trying to prove that the movie follows the anime more than the manga, which makes no sense and is not the point of the discussion. We're talking about DBS's supposed "real Canon" (which doesn't exist), and nothing you said really proves that the anime is any more important. DBS Broly followed Toriyama's ideas, not the anime.

That's why we don't have SSB KK and SSB Evolution (which wouldn't make sense if anime was the main thing) but we do have SSG Vegeta (which is an idea of ​​Toyotaro that Toriyama himself approved) and even have a scan of the movie that says that SSG Vegeta from manga would appear

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:06 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:21 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
I think this criticism from Toriyama was in an interview (where he's talking to Toyotaro), and it was his suggestions for Toyotaro to improve, it wasn't something done in the media to complain about manga problems (which I'm not saying doesn't exist, Toriyama also said he wanted Toyotaro to use more ideas of his own)
both are criticisms that are made so that something improves ... and really does not prove anything just that it is pending, the criticism was in FNF which did not matter followed its course after
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
In the anime he never saw the GoDs fight. So this scene from the movie can't follow the logic that Goku was just talking about warriors he faced on ToP.
Image

Image

yes, it can be
goku is talking about powerful people he met in the tournament.
all Hakaishin are powerful that are at the level of beerus and some of them rival the cat, Goku knows this, no matter if he didn't see them fight.
goku just faced ribrianne and recognized her power in the anime
goku just faced kefla in the anime
dyspo only had relevance in the anime
Goku says he can't stay in the same level because there were so many powerful guys in the tournament, this doesn't make sense in the manga because only Jiren was important to Goku, the others didn't present a challenge for him.

also the movie was made a year in advance is impossible to be based on the manga had to be the anime that was already advanced,

Image
That's a completely arbitrary rule you've made up. He still sensed those other fighters Ki, felt his friends fight them and probably spoke to everyone else about their battles too afterwards.

He didn't fight the Gods yet they are pictured there, but you say he knows them by reputation, but he knows all the others are the top ten mortals too.

It's just a generic image showing people present at the top, shown to the viewer, Goku doesn't make any of them.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:45 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:21 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
I think this criticism from Toriyama was in an interview (where he's talking to Toyotaro), and it was his suggestions for Toyotaro to improve, it wasn't something done in the media to complain about manga problems (which I'm not saying doesn't exist, Toriyama also said he wanted Toyotaro to use more ideas of his own)
both are criticisms that are made so that something improves ... and really does not prove anything just that it is pending, the criticism was in FNF which did not matter followed its course after
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
In the anime he never saw the GoDs fight. So this scene from the movie can't follow the logic that Goku was just talking about warriors he faced on ToP.
Image

Image

yes, it can be
goku is talking about powerful people he met in the tournament.
all Hakaishin are powerful that are at the level of beerus and some of them rival the cat, Goku knows this, no matter if he didn't see them fight.
goku just faced ribrianne and recognized her power in the anime
goku just faced kefla in the anime
dyspo only had relevance in the anime
Goku says he can't stay in the same level because there were so many powerful guys in the tournament, this doesn't make sense in the manga because only Jiren was important to Goku, the others didn't present a challenge for him.

also the movie was made a year in advance is impossible to be based on the manga had to be the anime that was already advanced,

Image
You are trying to prove that the movie follows the anime more than the manga, which makes no sense and is not the point of the discussion. We're talking about DBS's supposed "real Canon" (which doesn't exist), and nothing you said really proves that the anime is any more important. DBS Broly followed Toriyama's ideas, not the anime.

That's why we don't have SSB KK and SSB Evolution (which wouldn't make sense if anime was the main thing) but we do have SSG Vegeta (which is an idea of ​​Toyotaro that Toriyama himself approved) and even have a scan of the movie that says that SSG Vegeta from manga would appear
with respect to anime yes, because the mention of goku of strong warriors only makes sense in that version
real Canon no, the manga is canon too but exist a main canon (anime) that without the anime version there would be no manga by the way, in addition to relying on Toei to tell part of the story
it was the toei staff that suggested toriyama to use broly ...
and where is the SSB 100%? SSG proves nothing because it is supposed to be a lower transformation than the SSB that vegeta should already have ..
toyoyaro didn't contribute anything in the movie
TobyS wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:06 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:21 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
I think this criticism from Toriyama was in an interview (where he's talking to Toyotaro), and it was his suggestions for Toyotaro to improve, it wasn't something done in the media to complain about manga problems (which I'm not saying doesn't exist, Toriyama also said he wanted Toyotaro to use more ideas of his own)
both are criticisms that are made so that something improves ... and really does not prove anything just that it is pending, the criticism was in FNF which did not matter followed its course after
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:31 pm
In the anime he never saw the GoDs fight. So this scene from the movie can't follow the logic that Goku was just talking about warriors he faced on ToP.
Image

Image

yes, it can be
goku is talking about powerful people he met in the tournament.
all Hakaishin are powerful that are at the level of beerus and some of them rival the cat, Goku knows this, no matter if he didn't see them fight.
goku just faced ribrianne and recognized her power in the anime
goku just faced kefla in the anime
dyspo only had relevance in the anime
Goku says he can't stay in the same level because there were so many powerful guys in the tournament, this doesn't make sense in the manga because only Jiren was important to Goku, the others didn't present a challenge for him.

also the movie was made a year in advance is impossible to be based on the manga had to be the anime that was already advanced,

Image
That's a completely arbitrary rule you've made up. He still sensed those other fighters Ki, felt his friends fight them and probably spoke to everyone else about their battles too afterwards.

He didn't fight the Gods yet they are pictured there, but you say he knows them by reputation, but he knows all the others are the top ten mortals too.

It's just a generic image showing people present at the top, shown to the viewer, Goku doesn't make any of them.
no, that you've made up .. because you are assuming it,
almost all the characters were random in the manga it doesn't make sense those assumptions
I rely on what was seen and what was said.

goku never spoke anything about the other fighters in the manga, he just interested in fighting with jiren and some he did not even see them to appear especially ribrianne ..

The generic makes no sense .... for one simple reason it is assumed that all of them are motivating Goku to continue his training is being taken as something important

Goku in the anime knows how powerful the gods, whis saying that one of them had "defeated beerus"

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:35 pm

Crying about canon and disputing official sources because they go against what you want is the most juvenile crybaby stereotypical fanboy nonsense ever.

Unless we're at the point where we're now doubting Herms, this is all there is to say about the subject, and anything else is just conjecture that should be ignored.
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You saw Batman v Superman? Is it the Ultimate Edition? No? Then you haven't seen Batman v Superman. Batman is out there busting his ass to avenge Goku and you won't even go see him do it?!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:00 pm

TKA wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:35 pm
Crying about canon and disputing official sources because they go against what you want is the most juvenile crybaby stereotypical fanboy nonsense ever.

Unless we're at the point where we're now doubting Herms, this is all there is to say about the subject, and anything else is just conjecture that should be ignored.
A lot of people don't like the idea that the adaptation they prefer might not be the official or "canon" adaptation, even if an overwhelming amount of evidence states otherwise.

It can also boil down to the fact that frankly, a lot of people don't like Toyotaro. Which is fair, he makes plenty of mistakes too, but it doesn't change his current role as someone who seems to be producing a story WITH Toriyama and grabbing a hold of the reigns as time goes on.

Heck, in addition to designing half the Gods of Destruction alongside Toriyama, he's started designing villains for video games like Heroes such as Sealas, a job that they normally get Toriyama to do. However one may feel about it, I feel like people should prepare for the idea that Toyotaro is going to have a more active role in the franchise as time goes on and Toriyama gets older.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:08 am

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:00 pm
TKA wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:35 pm
Crying about canon and disputing official sources because they go against what you want is the most juvenile crybaby stereotypical fanboy nonsense ever.

Unless we're at the point where we're now doubting Herms, this is all there is to say about the subject, and anything else is just conjecture that should be ignored.
A lot of people don't like the idea that the adaptation they prefer might not be the official or "canon" adaptation, even if an overwhelming amount of evidence states otherwise.

It can also boil down to the fact that frankly, a lot of people don't like Toyotaro. Which is fair, he makes plenty of mistakes too, but it doesn't change his current role as someone who seems to be producing a story WITH Toriyama and grabbing a hold of the reigns as time goes on.

Heck, in addition to designing half the Gods of Destruction alongside Toriyama, he's started designing villains for video games like Heroes such as Sealas, a job that they normally get Toriyama to do. However one may feel about it, I feel like people should prepare for the idea that Toyotaro is going to have a more active role in the franchise as time goes on and Toriyama gets older.
The problem with those examples is that Toyo only did World Missions while the new hotness, Kakarot, has an OC made directly form Toriyama's hand. That and the anime did far more in the TOP in than even Toyo. Yeah, he made half the Gods of Destruction, but Toei had to do almost every other fighter and give them personalities and origins since Toriyama couldn't even be bothered to tell them what Dypso, Toppo, and Jiren were to each other despite them wearing the same uniform. He only corrected Jiren since their version didn't match what he had in mind, which would be nice if he put in a note or something. Probably the most standout and lasting one is that Omen came from Toei and got adapted into everything, including Toyo's manga where he could have easily skipped it. In fact, people were certain that Omen wouldn't appear in the manga since 'it wasn't Toriyama'.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:43 am

HeroR wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:08 am
The problem with those examples is that Toyo only did World Missions while the new hotness, Kakarot, has an OC made directly form Toriyama's hand. That and the anime did far more in the TOP in than even Toyo. Yeah, he made half the Gods of Destruction, but Toei had to do almost every other fighter and give them personalities and origins since Toriyama couldn't even be bothered to tell them what Dypso, Toppo, and Jiren were to each other despite them wearing the same uniform. He only corrected Jiren since their version didn't match what he had in mind, which would be nice if he put in a note or something. Probably the most standout and lasting one is that Omen came from Toei and got adapted into everything, including Toyo's manga where he could have easily skipped it. In fact, people were certain that Omen wouldn't appear in the manga since 'it wasn't Toriyama'.
You're ignoring the fact that, yes, while Toei designed most of the ToP fighters, none of them were intended by Toriyama to be "major players" in the Tournament. Toyotaro re-used the designs, but pretty much every non-important fighter got skipped (honestly for the best). The only exception to this IMO was Kale, who was designed by Toei, but gained a sister through Toriyama and could serve as foreshadowing to the Broly movie that justified her importance. Toyotaro designed several Gods of Destruction, who are supposed to be major characters, deities who are the top of the Dragon Ball food chain, so to speak. Belmod, the God of Destruction of the MAIN OPPOSING UNIVERSE, and arguably the biggest provider of Jiren's exposition in BOTH continuities was even a collaborated design between Toyotaro and Toriyama. If that doesn't speak volumes for Toyotaro's role in the future of the franchise, that he's outright collaborating designs TOGETHER alongside Toriyama, I don't know what does.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:26 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:43 am
HeroR wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:08 am
The problem with those examples is that Toyo only did World Missions while the new hotness, Kakarot, has an OC made directly form Toriyama's hand. That and the anime did far more in the TOP in than even Toyo. Yeah, he made half the Gods of Destruction, but Toei had to do almost every other fighter and give them personalities and origins since Toriyama couldn't even be bothered to tell them what Dypso, Toppo, and Jiren were to each other despite them wearing the same uniform. He only corrected Jiren since their version didn't match what he had in mind, which would be nice if he put in a note or something. Probably the most standout and lasting one is that Omen came from Toei and got adapted into everything, including Toyo's manga where he could have easily skipped it. In fact, people were certain that Omen wouldn't appear in the manga since 'it wasn't Toriyama'.
You're ignoring the fact that, yes, while Toei designed most of the ToP fighters, none of them were intended by Toriyama to be "major players" in the Tournament. Toyotaro re-used the designs, but pretty much every non-important fighter got skipped (honestly for the best). The only exception to this IMO was Kale, who was designed by Toei, but gained a sister through Toriyama and could serve as foreshadowing to the Broly movie that justified her importance. Toyotaro designed several Gods of Destruction, who are supposed to be major characters, deities who are the top of the Dragon Ball food chain, so to speak. Belmod, the God of Destruction of the MAIN OPPOSING UNIVERSE, and arguably the biggest provider of Jiren's exposition in BOTH continuities was even a collaborated design between Toyotaro and Toriyama. If that doesn't speak volumes for Toyotaro's role in the future of the franchise, that he's outright collaborating designs TOGETHER alongside Toriyama, I don't know what does.
The had to be 'major players', otherwise Toriyama could have just had a traditional tournament instead of a 80 men royal rumble.. And if they weren't any 'fodder' fighters, what was the point of bringing in characters like Krillin, Tien, Roshi, and even Piccolo if Goku and Vegeta could just solo everything outside ofe except Jiren, Toppo, and Dypso (who again, Toriyama didn't even bothered to give personalities to Toppo and Dypso despite designing them) were meant to be important. Even the Gods of Destruction weren't major players in the arc since Toyo had to make a reason to even have them fight in a rumble. Most of the time, they just sat there and gave commentary. They are about as major as Grand Supreme Kai in Z. Actually worse, since at least the Grand Supreme Kai was a major story reason for Buu being gimped.

It honestly wasn't for the best since again, what was the point of the lesser Z-Fighters? If no one except a handful were ever meant to be important to anything, you didn't need 80 people to begin with. Also, Kale didn't really foreshadowed Broly since Kale was design a long time before Canon Broly. Going by the timeline, Super was already on Episode 100 by the time they decided reboot Broly.

Toriyama also co-deigned Heles and her universe got punked out by Kale in the manga and doesn't even have knockouts. Toriyama also designed Rib who did nothing in the Super manga. He also personally designed Sidra, and we know what happened to him.

So in that sense, Toyo's contribution isn't all that impactful. Even his contribution of Vegetto really didn't add anything outside of fan service.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:43 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm
TobyS wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:06 am


He didn't fight the Gods yet they are pictured there, but you say he knows them by reputation, but he knows all the others are the top ten mortals too.

It's just a generic image showing people present at the top, shown to the viewer, Goku doesn't make any of them.
The generic makes no sense .... for one simple reason it is assumed that all of them are motivating Goku to continue his training is being taken as something important

Goku in the anime knows how powerful the gods, whis saying that one of them had "defeated beerus"
It is just a visual, we have no proof that it's what Goku himself pictures and the later visual, where he as a SSG restrains Broly, further suggest it is just for the audience, because Goku never saw Freeza's 2nd and 3rd forms, which are shown in that visual.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:44 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:43 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm
TobyS wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:06 am


He didn't fight the Gods yet they are pictured there, but you say he knows them by reputation, but he knows all the others are the top ten mortals too.

It's just a generic image showing people present at the top, shown to the viewer, Goku doesn't make any of them.
The generic makes no sense .... for one simple reason it is assumed that all of them are motivating Goku to continue his training is being taken as something important

Goku in the anime knows how powerful the gods, whis saying that one of them had "defeated beerus"
It is just a visual, we have no proof that it's what Goku himself pictures and the later visual, where he as a SSG restrains Broly, further suggest it is just for the audience, because Goku never saw Freeza's 2nd and 3rd forms, which are shown in that visual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=besAX_o9BK0

if the comment were given by bulma or vegeta then it would be only for the audience ... because they would not have to think about it be they were not interested.

in context is a memory of goku realizing the incredible warriors of other universes ...

the frieza thing has nothing to do and the context is different ...It begins with the perspective of goku ... while in the last one only the faces of the 3 villains appear, who anyway goku did know them and fight with them even though he did not do it in all its forms.

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TheSaiyanGod
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:18 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm

with respect to anime yes, because the mention of goku of strong warriors only makes sense in that version
real Canon no, the manga is canon too but exist a main canon (anime) that without the anime version there would be no manga by the way, in addition to relying on Toei to tell part of the story
it was the toei staff that suggested toriyama to use broly ...
and where is the SSB 100%? SSG proves nothing because it is supposed to be a lower transformation than the SSB that vegeta should already have ..
toyoyaro didn't contribute anything in the movie
There is no main canon, the manga does not follow the anime. The manga is its own official and canonical sequel (according to various official sources already shown). Without anime the manga would exist because the latter is based on Toriyama's script, which gives a sketch for both Toyotaro and TOEI, who interpret it differently (and Toriyama oversees and corrects the manga)

It wasn't just TOEI who wanted Broly, it was the whole Dragon Ball Room because he was a popular character. This is why Kale was created. And Toriyama has changed a lot of things compared to TOEI's original Broly.

I'm not saying that Broly movie followed the manga, I'm saying that it only followed Toriyama's script (also composed of ideas from both TOEI and Toyotaro), that's why we don't have SSB KK, SSBE or MSSB. and one of the proofs of this is SSG (which even though it's a transformation inferior to SSB, never was used by Vegeta in the anime). Like I said, there is even a scan of the movie that specifically says that SSG Vegeta FROM THE MANGA would appear. The movie does not follow the anime and does not prove that the anime is somehow the main canon

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:24 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:18 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm

with respect to anime yes, because the mention of goku of strong warriors only makes sense in that version
real Canon no, the manga is canon too but exist a main canon (anime) that without the anime version there would be no manga by the way, in addition to relying on Toei to tell part of the story
it was the toei staff that suggested toriyama to use broly ...
and where is the SSB 100%? SSG proves nothing because it is supposed to be a lower transformation than the SSB that vegeta should already have ..
toyoyaro didn't contribute anything in the movie
There is no main canon, the manga does not follow the anime. The manga is its own official and canonical sequel (according to various official sources already shown). Without anime the manga would exist because the latter is based on Toriyama's script, which gives a sketch for both Toyotaro and TOEI, who interpret it differently (and Toriyama oversees and corrects the manga)

It wasn't just TOEI who wanted Broly, it was the whole Dragon Ball Room because he was a popular character. This is why Kale was created. And Toriyama has changed a lot of things compared to TOEI's original Broly.

I'm not saying that Broly movie followed the manga, I'm saying that it only followed Toriyama's script (also composed of ideas from both TOEI and Toyotaro), that's why we don't have SSB KK, SSBE or MSSB. and one of the proofs of this is SSG (which even though it's a transformation inferior to SSB, never was used by Vegeta in the anime). Like I said, there is even a scan of the movie that specifically says that SSG Vegeta FROM THE MANGA would appear. The movie does not follow the anime and does not prove that the anime is somehow the main canon
The Anime is not the main continuity I don't know why this is even being debated and reason for the flashbacks in 'Broly' to the TOP is because in the manga those were the fighters who were hard to beat (Specifically Kefla, Ribrienne, 3 strongest of U11 Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo) the gods of destruction who were in the exhibition match (Manga Version) were included because Goku was amazed by their unique feats

'Super' is a canonical sequel to Dragon Ball as stated Numerous Times

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Nightbane » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:53 am

TKA wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:23 pm
Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:50 pm
Except that the anime canon is the main canon of Super and the manga remains as side story fluff for entertainment/promotion.
1. I don't see how what you said there has anything to do with anything I said. This is a thread about the manga. What the anime does is irrelevant.

2. The manga is the legitimate/true successor to Toriyama's work. This has been stated by official sources. DBS: Broly sure ignored the anime-original forms of the characters, and works better as a continuation of the manga. This point is also irrelevant in this discussion because this thread is about the manga, regardless of if it was "the legitimate sequel" or not.

3. Please only quote me when you have something more substantive to say.
Sorry, but nope!

https://comicbook.com/anime/2018/03/12/ ... tinuation/

""The Dragon Ball Super movie this time around will be the next story that takes place after the anime that's currently on TV. The content will shed a little light on previously unexplored topics having to do with Frieza and the Saiyans, and I think it will be a very enjoyable story that serves up a long-awaited formidable opponent!" Toriyama himself said the movie takes place after the anime, and he said absolutely nothing about the manga. I know you really like the manga and that's fine, but Toriyama himself said right there that the movie follows the anime, so yea anime is canon.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:49 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:00 pm
that something is "official" does not make it canon
There is a difference between "official" and "official sequel". The Japanese phrasing is 正統続編. Please see the following:
https://twitter.com/herms98/status/1057 ... 24?lang=en
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2018/11/05/p ... sode-0457/
https://twitter.com/VegettoEX/status/11 ... 5050099712
Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:00 pm
for me it is clear anime is the main canon and manga is not could the real canon because being very dependent on other media
So if the anime returns and doesn't adapt the Broly movie, will it no longer be canon in your view?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:00 am

The manga is so much the official continuity, that it took them 4 years to announce any merch (figures) to represent it :wave:

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