"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TobyS » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:18 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:00 am
The manga is so much the official continuity, that it took them 4 years to announce any merch (figures) to represent it :wave:
Because the manga readers don't buy as many children's dolls?

Merch is made based on predicted sales, not as a confirmation of canonness.

Also most designs are identical so they don't need explicitly manga labelled merch it'd be pointless.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:21 am

I know the go-to DB canon discussion has always been "Shueisha has never specifically said something was canon, so it's whatever you want it to be", but now that they're using 正統続編, it's hard to stand by that.

All that said, that has very little to do with why I prefer the manga.
Noah wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:53 pm
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:33 pm
Throughout the manga however Toriyama has drawn entire pages, we've been outright shown he'll correct several pages worth of dialogue in a chapter if he feels there's an issue or someone is out of character. And he stated that certain events, such as Vegeta going Super Saiyan God in the manga, were intimately supervised by him.
Is that true? I would like to see the source on this one. Always a pleasure to see that Toriyama indeed gives a sh*t about these details.
Here are some examples:

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1036815286861619200
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DekLyZfXUAEtCFh.jpg
https://twitter.com/herms98/status/870475983828115457
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... alk-vol-2/

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:28 am

TobyS wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:18 am
mute_proxy wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:00 am
The manga is so much the official continuity, that it took them 4 years to announce any merch (figures) to represent it :wave:
Because the manga readers don't buy as many children's dolls?

Merch is made based on predicted sales, not as a confirmation of canonness.

Also most designs are identical so they don't need explicitly manga labelled merch it'd be pointless.
1. You have no idea what you're talking about.
2. And why wouldn't the so called "canon continuity" be in there among the top sales pitches? Isn't canon what people crave most?
3. It's not about designs. No poses, attacks, no forms exclusive to the manga, nothing, until a few weeks ago.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:56 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:28 am
And why wouldn't the so called "canon continuity" be in there among the top sales pitches? Isn't canon what people crave most?
It really isn't. It's clearly not seen as that important by the production side, with only the most minor of statements ever being made about it, and for DBS that consists of... a traveling event wall and a single event's giveaway manga preview, from what I've counted.

There is a loud subset of fans online that make a stink about it. Most people just watch, read, watch/read, play, watch/play, read/play, watch/read/play, and don't give any of that any thought at all ever.

I really don't understand the extreme tribalism. Your own standing in the world is not somehow elevated because you chose the "winning" "side" graced with maybe perhaps if you squint canonicity.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:30 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:18 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm

with respect to anime yes, because the mention of goku of strong warriors only makes sense in that version
real Canon no, the manga is canon too but exist a main canon (anime) that without the anime version there would be no manga by the way, in addition to relying on Toei to tell part of the story
it was the toei staff that suggested toriyama to use broly ...
and where is the SSB 100%? SSG proves nothing because it is supposed to be a lower transformation than the SSB that vegeta should already have ..
toyoyaro didn't contribute anything in the movie
There is no main canon, the manga does not follow the anime. The manga is its own official and canonical sequel (according to various official sources already shown). Without anime the manga would exist because the latter is based on Toriyama's script, which gives a sketch for both Toyotaro and TOEI, who interpret it differently (and Toriyama oversees and corrects the manga)

It wasn't just TOEI who wanted Broly, it was the whole Dragon Ball Room because he was a popular character. This is why Kale was created. And Toriyama has changed a lot of things compared to TOEI's original Broly.

I'm not saying that Broly movie followed the manga, I'm saying that it only followed Toriyama's script (also composed of ideas from both TOEI and Toyotaro), that's why we don't have SSB KK, SSBE or MSSB. and one of the proofs of this is SSG (which even though it's a transformation inferior to SSB, never was used by Vegeta in the anime). Like I said, there is even a scan of the movie that specifically says that SSG Vegeta FROM THE MANGA would appear. The movie does not follow the anime and does not prove that the anime is somehow the main canon
it wouldn't exist ... it was because of the movie that exists

goku SSG appears in the anime ... what vegeta proves nothing

kale was idea of toei, what influenced that broly appears ...
however popular it was, would not have been chosen it was suggested by toei's staff

Noitsnothim wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:24 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:18 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm

with respect to anime yes, because the mention of goku of strong warriors only makes sense in that version
real Canon no, the manga is canon too but exist a main canon (anime) that without the anime version there would be no manga by the way, in addition to relying on Toei to tell part of the story
it was the toei staff that suggested toriyama to use broly ...
and where is the SSB 100%? SSG proves nothing because it is supposed to be a lower transformation than the SSB that vegeta should already have ..
toyoyaro didn't contribute anything in the movie
There is no main canon, the manga does not follow the anime. The manga is its own official and canonical sequel (according to various official sources already shown). Without anime the manga would exist because the latter is based on Toriyama's script, which gives a sketch for both Toyotaro and TOEI, who interpret it differently (and Toriyama oversees and corrects the manga)

It wasn't just TOEI who wanted Broly, it was the whole Dragon Ball Room because he was a popular character. This is why Kale was created. And Toriyama has changed a lot of things compared to TOEI's original Broly.

I'm not saying that Broly movie followed the manga, I'm saying that it only followed Toriyama's script (also composed of ideas from both TOEI and Toyotaro), that's why we don't have SSB KK, SSBE or MSSB. and one of the proofs of this is SSG (which even though it's a transformation inferior to SSB, never was used by Vegeta in the anime). Like I said, there is even a scan of the movie that specifically says that SSG Vegeta FROM THE MANGA would appear. The movie does not follow the anime and does not prove that the anime is somehow the main canon
The Anime is not the main continuity I don't know why this is even being debated and reason for the flashbacks in 'Broly' to the TOP is because in the manga those were the fighters who were hard to beat (Specifically Kefla, Ribrienne, 3 strongest of U11 Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo) the gods of destruction who were in the exhibition match (Manga Version) were included because Goku was amazed by their unique feats

'Super' is a canonical sequel to Dragon Ball as stated Numerous Times
that's false, ribrianne was a warrior random in the manga and none of them fought with goku
batistabus wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:49 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:00 pm
that something is "official" does not make it canon
There is a difference between "official" and "official sequel". The Japanese phrasing is 正統続編. Please see the following:
https://twitter.com/herms98/status/1057 ... 24?lang=en
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2018/11/05/p ... sode-0457/
https://twitter.com/VegettoEX/status/11 ... 5050099712
as far as I remember GT was also considered "official continuation"
batistabus wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:49 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:00 pm
for me it is clear anime is the main canon and manga is not could the real canon because being very dependent on other media
So if the anime returns and doesn't adapt the Broly movie, will it no longer be canon in your view?
the movie would count as continuation
since it was announced as a continuation of the series but it will become secondary ...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:54 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:30 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:18 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:57 pm

with respect to anime yes, because the mention of goku of strong warriors only makes sense in that version
real Canon no, the manga is canon too but exist a main canon (anime) that without the anime version there would be no manga by the way, in addition to relying on Toei to tell part of the story
it was the toei staff that suggested toriyama to use broly ...
and where is the SSB 100%? SSG proves nothing because it is supposed to be a lower transformation than the SSB that vegeta should already have ..
toyoyaro didn't contribute anything in the movie
There is no main canon, the manga does not follow the anime. The manga is its own official and canonical sequel (according to various official sources already shown). Without anime the manga would exist because the latter is based on Toriyama's script, which gives a sketch for both Toyotaro and TOEI, who interpret it differently (and Toriyama oversees and corrects the manga)

It wasn't just TOEI who wanted Broly, it was the whole Dragon Ball Room because he was a popular character. This is why Kale was created. And Toriyama has changed a lot of things compared to TOEI's original Broly.

I'm not saying that Broly movie followed the manga, I'm saying that it only followed Toriyama's script (also composed of ideas from both TOEI and Toyotaro), that's why we don't have SSB KK, SSBE or MSSB. and one of the proofs of this is SSG (which even though it's a transformation inferior to SSB, never was used by Vegeta in the anime). Like I said, there is even a scan of the movie that specifically says that SSG Vegeta FROM THE MANGA would appear. The movie does not follow the anime and does not prove that the anime is somehow the main canon
it wouldn't exist ... it was because of the movie that exists

goku SSG appears in the anime ... what vegeta proves nothing

kale was idea of toei, what influenced that broly appears ...
however popular it was, would not have been chosen it was suggested by toei's staff

Noitsnothim wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:24 am
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:18 pm


There is no main canon, the manga does not follow the anime. The manga is its own official and canonical sequel (according to various official sources already shown). Without anime the manga would exist because the latter is based on Toriyama's script, which gives a sketch for both Toyotaro and TOEI, who interpret it differently (and Toriyama oversees and corrects the manga)

It wasn't just TOEI who wanted Broly, it was the whole Dragon Ball Room because he was a popular character. This is why Kale was created. And Toriyama has changed a lot of things compared to TOEI's original Broly.

I'm not saying that Broly movie followed the manga, I'm saying that it only followed Toriyama's script (also composed of ideas from both TOEI and Toyotaro), that's why we don't have SSB KK, SSBE or MSSB. and one of the proofs of this is SSG (which even though it's a transformation inferior to SSB, never was used by Vegeta in the anime). Like I said, there is even a scan of the movie that specifically says that SSG Vegeta FROM THE MANGA would appear. The movie does not follow the anime and does not prove that the anime is somehow the main canon
The Anime is not the main continuity I don't know why this is even being debated and reason for the flashbacks in 'Broly' to the TOP is because in the manga those were the fighters who were hard to beat (Specifically Kefla, Ribrienne, 3 strongest of U11 Jiren, Toppo, Dyspo) the gods of destruction who were in the exhibition match (Manga Version) were included because Goku was amazed by their unique feats

'Super' is a canonical sequel to Dragon Ball as stated Numerous Times
that's false, ribrianne was a warrior random in the manga and none of them fought with goku
batistabus wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:49 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:00 pm
that something is "official" does not make it canon
There is a difference between "official" and "official sequel". The Japanese phrasing is 正統続編. Please see the following:
https://twitter.com/herms98/status/1057 ... 24?lang=en
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2018/11/05/p ... sode-0457/
https://twitter.com/VegettoEX/status/11 ... 5050099712
as far as I remember GT was also considered "official continuation"
batistabus wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:49 am
Tai Lung wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:00 pm
for me it is clear anime is the main canon and manga is not could the real canon because being very dependent on other media
So if the anime returns and doesn't adapt the Broly movie, will it no longer be canon in your view?
the movie would count as continuation
since it was announced as a continuation of the series but it will become secondary ...
It's not false Ribrienne was a key player in the tournament of power and was used in early promo stuff to showcase that

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:10 am

Totally Not Mark explained it best, that everything that happens in both versions is Toriyama's canon and everything in between isn't, I agree with him. As for the legit sequel, everything points towards the anime

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rebel_Yeh » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:18 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:10 am
As for the legit sequel, everything points towards the anime
Very true.

Dragon Ball Super was originally conceived only as an anime, and was first announced only as an anime.

The manga was not the one that was marketed as the main product.

Toriyama’s character designs for DBS were in color. For example, the hair color for the design of Goku Black’s Super Saiyan Rose form is colored in pink. So the SSJR form’s pink hair color is meant to be seen, which is not possible in the black-and-white manga.

The manga skipped the Resurrection F arc.

Also, Dragon Ball Heroes has a game, an anime, and a manga. Since the game is the main product, the game’s version of events is the true version of the events in Dragon Ball Heroes. Similarly, the Dragon Ball Super: Broly movie is canonical rather than the novelization, because the movie is the main product.

Therefore, in the true and canonical version of DBS:

-The one who used the mafuba on Zamasu was Future Trunks, not Goku.

-Gohan wore Goku’s gi in the ToP, not Piccolo’s gi.

-Goku used SSB Kaio-Ken, not Perfected SSB.

-Aniraza was a serious threat to Team Universe 7, not fodder for Kale.

-Gohan’s final opponent in the ToP was Dyspo, not Kefla.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:56 am

Canon is authority. Toriyama is the authority over Dragonball's story as the creator.
Toriyama says the Dragonball Z movies are in another universe from Dragonball.
Toriyama says Dragonball GT is also a side-story from his Dragonball world.
Toriyama rewrote TOEI's Battle of gods script cause their world was different from Dragonball!
Toriyama stated that live-action Dragonball movie is not Dragonball since they didn't heed his advice!
Toriyama SUPERVISES [Authority/Canon] both the Dragonball Super anime/manga!
Both the Super manga/anime are based off Toriyama's movies and plot outlines!
Toriyama does not use SSBE Vegeta, BlueKK Goku, MSSB Goku/Vegeta forms from the anime and manga in his movies.

The anime/manga do not usurp Toriyama's movies which are parent to the anime/manga. They are only connected to his stories.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:23 pm

Rebel_Yeh wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:18 am

Very true.

Dragon Ball Super was originally conceived only as an anime, and was first announced only as an anime.

The manga was not the one that was marketed as the main product.

Toriyama’s character designs for DBS were in color. For example, the hair color for the design of Goku Black’s Super Saiyan Rose form is colored in pink. So the SSJR form’s pink hair color is meant to be seen, which is not possible in the black-and-white manga.

The manga skipped the Resurrection F arc.

Also, Dragon Ball Heroes has a game, an anime, and a manga. Since the game is the main product, the game’s version of events is the true version of the events in Dragon Ball Heroes. Similarly, the Dragon Ball Super: Broly movie is canonical rather than the novelization, because the movie is the main product.

Therefore, in the true and canonical version of DBS:

-The one who used the mafuba on Zamasu was Future Trunks, not Goku.

-Gohan wore Goku’s gi in the ToP, not Piccolo’s gi.

-Goku used SSB Kaio-Ken, not Perfected SSB.

-Aniraza was a serious threat to Team Universe 7, not fodder for Kale.

-Gohan’s final opponent in the ToP was Dyspo, not Kefla.
Why is this wrong on so many levels...

I'll just leave this here.

Image

Image

魔人ブウ編の "その後" を描いた、「ドラゴンボール」の正統続編。

正統続編 = canonical sequel
Super Dragon Ball Heroes Universe Mission translation compilation here. All translations are done and owned by me.

SDBH 9th anniversary the secret development interview here. Learn how original SDBH characters such as SS3 Raditz, SS4 Bardock, Robel, & more were conceived!

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SSJgogeto » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:04 pm

IMO in this image they're talking about Super as a whole, not really about the manga.

You know, like "Dragon Ball Super is the canonical sequel to Dragon Ball. Toriyama makes the story, Toyotaro adapts it to manga and Toei adapts it to anime."

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:05 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:30 am
as far as I remember GT was also considered "official continuation"
@Herms89 wrote:Yes, while GT is typically called a 続編, to my knowledge it's never been referred to as a 正統続編 the way Super is here.
https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/1057917520429015045
It is referred to as a "continuation" because it literally continues where Z left off, but doesn't have the same "canon" connotation.

Toriyama refers to it as a "grand side-story".
SSJgogeto wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:04 pm
IMO in this image they're talking about Super as a whole, not really about the manga.

You know, like "Dragon Ball Super is the canonical sequel to Dragon Ball. Toriyama makes the story, Toyotaro adapts it to manga and Toei adapts it to anime."
The rest of the quote mentions Toriyama and Toyotaro, not the anime. It's also missing the context of the 4 boards containing panels from Toriyama's original manga.

I think this discussion is interesting, but it's no indication of which series is better...at least not inherently. If the anime were called the "official sequel to the Dragon Ball manga" instead of the manga, I would still prefer the manga. The problem is when people come in this thread and try to diminish the manga when the same arguments are used more effectively in the opposite direction.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SSJgogeto » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:22 pm

I know about the quote and the context, but at the same time I think the phrase is interpretative. A more specific sentence would really help a lot in this case.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:27 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:56 am

Toriyama rewrote TOEI's Battle of gods script cause their world was different from Dragonball!
I did not know that, can you expand on the subject?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:56 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:27 pm
I did not know that, can you expand on the subject?
Here's a translation by Kei17 of Toriyama's comment in the 30th anniversary Super History Book back in 2015:
Akira Toriyama wrote:Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime, so it seems that Dragon Ball has grown on me [so] much that I can't leave it alone.
The longer story involves Toriyama being shown the original script for Kami to Kami about an evil lizard-esque God of Destruction (named "Virus") who corrupted the hearts and minds of good people, requiring Goku to transform into a Super Saiyan God. Toriyama read the script and wasn't happy by how bleak (and un-Dragon Ball like) it was. Motivated by his dissatisfaction with Dragon Ball Evolution, he, seemingly to the surprise of everyone at Toei, changed almost everything, but salvaged the God of Destruction and Super Saiyan God plot points. Birusu (Virus) was interpreted by Toriyama as being a play on "beers", resulting in the alcohol puns for the rest of the GoDs and angels.

Despite his aloof nature, Toriyama cares about Dragon Ball. He'd like to continue being a hermit, but he wants it left in good hands. Dragon Ball GT and other filler content has a reputation for being lower-quality compared to the original manga, so Toei wants to retain him as much as possible. By all accounts, it seems that Toyotaro has been chosen as someone Toriyama can trust to continue his legacy, and that Shuesha/Toei can trust to reproduce the ephemeral Toriyama essence. Toyotaro was able to prove himself with Victory Mission and the RoF promo manga. He was put onto the main series and given freedom to add his own flavor to Toriyama's Super outline. He designed and co-designed Gods of Destruction with Toriyama. Now, he's co-writer and (seemingly) lead character designer for an entire arc. I've been saying this for a while now, but it seems that Toriyama will focus mainly on films while Toyotaro (under a direct working relationship with Toriyama) fills in stories in between and the anime (hopefully) adapts the manga. Even if one thinks they can dismiss Toyotaro's significance at the moment, that strategy seemingly won't play out in the long run...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:43 pm

mute_proxy wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:28 am
And why wouldn't the so called "canon continuity" be in there among the top sales pitches? Isn't canon what people crave most?
I agree with VegettoEX. Toriyama working on DBS is a major selling point because he's the original author but the general audience doesn't care about canon. It's mainly a vocal online minority. In this day and age of constant reboots and remakes, the general audience is already used to the idea of multiple continuities so they probably wouldn't care if that was being applied to Dragonball.

Toriyama himself seems to disregard anime and manga exclusive content and only what he included in his own outlines when working on the next story. In DBS: Broly, he didn't include SSB/Kaioken, Ascended SSJB, or Mastered SSJB. The only fans to be bothered by this are the ones online arguing about canon but most fans probably just assumed Toriyama doesn't include them in his continuity of DBS. When Freeza encountered Gogeta, Gogeta said something about Freeza being dead for so long and didn't learn about fusion. In the DBS anime, Freeza saw Gotenks in the RoF saga and Kefla in both versions. I'm pretty sure Kelfa was Toei's idea and then Toyotaro decided to use her in the manga. In either case, Gogeta was apparently the first fusion character Freeza met in the continuity Toriyama cares about.

I prefer viewing the series as a multiverse with both versions of DBS, GT, the old movies, etc as existing in multiple continuities. I find that easier than arguing what is more canon than the other especially since we don't know what else will be retconned or ignored in later storylines. It would be funny if Toei could decide to have a shorter DBS Kai that are advertised as following Toriyama's outlines more closely. Should fans who enjoyed the original DBS disregard it because this version would be considered more "canon"? It would throw a wrench in these neverending canon discussions which is likely isn't a concern to Toei or the general audience.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by anubisj » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:03 pm

batistabus wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:56 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:27 pm
I did not know that, can you expand on the subject?
Here's a translation by Kei17 of Toriyama's comment in the 30th anniversary Super History Book back in 2015:
Akira Toriyama wrote:Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime, so it seems that Dragon Ball has grown on me [so] much that I can't leave it alone.
The longer story involves Toriyama being shown the original script for Kami to Kami about an evil lizard-esque God of Destruction (named "Virus") who corrupted the hearts and minds of good people, requiring Goku to transform into a Super Saiyan God. Toriyama read the script and wasn't happy by how bleak (and un-Dragon Ball like) it was. Motivated by his dissatisfaction with Dragon Ball Evolution, he, seemingly to the surprise of everyone at Toei, changed almost everything, but salvaged the God of Destruction and Super Saiyan God plot points. Birusu (Virus) was interpreted by Toriyama as being a play on "beers", resulting in the alcohol puns for the rest of the GoDs and angels.

I´ll be honest, that whole bleak dragon ball thing sounds awesome to me. I wished Toriyama hadn´t insisted on making Super for kids.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:06 pm

dragon ball is and always will be for kids, even though it can be enjoyed by everyone.
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Koitsukai
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:12 pm

batistabus wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:56 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:27 pm
I did not know that, can you expand on the subject?
Here's a translation by Kei17 of Toriyama's comment in the 30th anniversary Super History Book back in 2015:
Akira Toriyama wrote:Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime, so it seems that Dragon Ball has grown on me [so] much that I can't leave it alone.
The longer story involves Toriyama being shown the original script for Kami to Kami about an evil lizard-esque God of Destruction (named "Virus") who corrupted the hearts and minds of good people, requiring Goku to transform into a Super Saiyan God. Toriyama read the script and wasn't happy by how bleak (and un-Dragon Ball like) it was. Motivated by his dissatisfaction with Dragon Ball Evolution, he, seemingly to the surprise of everyone at Toei, changed almost everything, but salvaged the God of Destruction and Super Saiyan God plot points. Birusu (Virus) was interpreted by Toriyama as being a play on "beers", resulting in the alcohol puns for the rest of the GoDs and angels.

Despite his aloof nature, Toriyama cares about Dragon Ball. He'd like to continue being a hermit, but he wants it left in good hands. Dragon Ball GT and other filler content has a reputation for being lower-quality compared to the original manga, so Toei wants to retain him as much as possible. By all accounts, it seems that Toyotaro has been chosen as someone Toriyama can trust to continue his legacy, and that Shuesha/Toei can trust to reproduce the ephemeral Toriyama essence. Toyotaro was able to prove himself with Victory Mission and the RoF promo manga. He was put onto the main series and given freedom to add his own flavor to Toriyama's Super outline. He designed and co-designed Gods of Destruction with Toriyama. Now, he's co-writer and (seemingly) lead character designer for an entire arc. I've been saying this for a while now, but it seems that Toriyama will focus mainly on films while Toyotaro (under a direct working relationship with Toriyama) fills in stories in between and the anime (hopefully) adapts the manga. Even if one thinks they can dismiss Toyotaro's significance at the moment, that strategy seemingly won't play out in the long run...
Thank you very much, I had no idea about this lizard fella named Virus. We dodged that bullet.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:45 pm

FYI, all that info is translated and collected with all the necessary context right on our "Battle of Gods" page in the movie guide (see the extensive "ORIGINAL DRAFT/DESIGN CONCEPTS" section there), and most of it is also available in its full context throughout our "Translations" section.

And reminder that Jake and I went through aaaaaallllll of those "canon" words in a podcast episode last year. (Since then, I've seen 正統続編 one more time.)
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