"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by omegacwa » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:58 am

Noitsnothim wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:40 am
ekrolo2 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:15 pm
Toyo retconing manga UI with anime UI is smart. If you can't beat it steal it.
How's he retconing Manga UI?
Because Goku said that in order to attained UI he had to be pushed to his absolute limit in a situation with extremely high stakes. That's what happened in the anime.

In the manga Goku just thought about all his teachings and being inspired by Roshi was able to unlock UI by concentrating.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OhHiRenan » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:02 am

Concentrating in an extremely high stakes environment where he was pushed to his absolute limits.

Goku triggering UI isn't nearly as dramatic in the manga, but what Goku said still makes sense for the manga continuity.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by omegacwa » Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:09 am

OhHiRenan wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:02 am
Concentrating in an extremely high stakes environment where he was pushed to his absolute limits.

Goku triggering UI isn't nearly as dramatic in the manga, but what Goku said still makes sense for the manga continuity.
I think it's just the way the manga handled the TOP in general that makes it seem odd. The TOP in the manga just didn't seem like it was as dire a situation. Although, for the most part I prefer how the TOP ended in the manga because Android 17 wasn't powered up to a stupid degree like in the anime and the time between Vegeta's elimination to the end was way shorter.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jplaya2023 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 2:45 pm

piccolo needs to get it together or something. Go to namek and talk to the elders and learn about some secrets. I want to see piccolo atleast comparable to goku and vegeta again. His fall from grace is amazing.

Also where is Android 17 at? Wouldn't he be stronger than gohan or not in the manga? where's 18? goten/ trunks? I don't get them not letting them fight when they were fighting a more dangerous foe in buu 5 years ago. Also piccolo is a telepath why can't he communicate with tien and tell him to come. sounds like a plothole

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyanZero » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:27 pm

Yasai9001 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:23 pm
supersaiyanZero wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm
Yasai9001 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:30 pm
:yawn:

Piccolo's fight here is very synonymous to his battle against Cyborg 17. The main reason why he was bound to lose that fight was due to the fact that 17 had infinite stamina.

With that said, do you expect Piccolo to face off with a guy who has knowledge on Piccolo's entire fighting style and is able to copy such for half an hour? On top of that, he has infinite durability and stamina. Oh, and Moro also powered up his minions with the use of his magic, so there's that as well.

Piccolo did his part and did so rather well, in fact.
Piccolo was a brilliant tactician that could hold his own against the fiercest warriors earth had to offer. Now he gets a few panels to job to some newly introduced fodder? Get out of here with that shit.
Again, and I repeat; Piccolo goes to face off against an android who has infinite durbaility as well as stamina, who's also been powered up thanks to Moro's magic...and has a mimic hax. Piccolo isn't some ole bum who can just fight, he's smart, but he's not standing up against that. Sorry to burst your bubble.
'

That's a very lazy excuse loaded with headcanon. The series is peppered with moments where Piccolo's tactical mind has come into play, and he is a character that has been flung into the sidelines almost as disrespectfully as Gohan. Infinite stamina? Copy abilities? Whatever. That can hardly be qualified as being written into a corner. The writer had a chance for Piccolo to shine here and he simply used him to set up another fight.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yasai9001 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:00 pm

How is that a lazy excuse? 73 copies the moves and power of the person he grabs a hold onto. Top that off with infinite durability and stamina, Piccolo isn't winning. So what you don't like it, but it makes sense that Piccolo doesn't win that fight.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:21 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:15 pm
Toyo retconing manga UI with anime UI is smart. If you can't beat it steal it.
It's not a retcon. In the manga, Goku was about to be finished by Jiren, UI activated by calming himself in that moment of life and death.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:28 pm

Pacing's slowed.

I didn't hate it; I didn't love it.

I guess we're not meant to know exactly what Vegeta is learning until he pulls it out in the fight. I guess we're also not meant to know exactly what's up with Merus at this point in time.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:40 pm

Miracles wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:21 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:15 pm
Toyo retconing manga UI with anime UI is smart. If you can't beat it steal it.
It's not a retcon. In the manga, Goku was about to be finished by Jiren, UI activated by calming himself in that moment of life and death.
before he just needed to calm down ...

in fact as we already know he achieve it on his own
now ... he needs to recreate that scenario to break his limits .. the opponent must have enough power to exercise the same risk

it seems obvious to me that there was a change because both methods were explained differently

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:06 pm

I might be the only one that is not fond of the idea of Vegeta going off to Yardrat for training. Not only because it feels like the same thing back with the Gravity Chamber (using the same method Goku did it before), but also because it was something did it on the Android arc.

Is not like Vegeta is an inexperienced Super Saiyan like post Namek Goku, don't feel like they could teach anything useful to a God-tier.

Just hope they don't teach him the Instant Transmission because the latter is a long time Goku signature technique or any other dumb techniques like I heard in the rumours (Giant form, Multi Form and etc.)

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Strong warriors coming out of nowhere stronger than Freeza in a universe that had already been said... There were no longer strong people.
Yea, that's most likely another Super plot hole (not surprised) as I'll never dig the "fact" that the whole Universe 7 that has like four galaxies (North, South, West and East) have only 28 planets and that Whis never knew anything about Broly.
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After all the theories I have heard, and despite me wanting this extra new ideas for Dragon Ball, the Fallen Angels and stuff sound waaaaaay too much like pulled straight out of a fan manga.
Please, you call these things ideas from a fan manga? I wonder where you are when we were told about red and blue haired Saiyan transformations, Freeza, Future Trunks making a come back and also Evil Goku :lol:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:55 am

Miracles wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:21 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:15 pm
Toyo retconing manga UI with anime UI is smart. If you can't beat it steal it.
It's not a retcon. In the manga, Goku was about to be finished by Jiren, UI activated by calming himself in that moment of life and death.
Still a retcon.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:02 am

Miracles wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:21 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:15 pm
Toyo retconing manga UI with anime UI is smart. If you can't beat it steal it.
It's not a retcon. In the manga, Goku was about to be finished by Jiren, UI activated by calming himself in that moment of life and death.
Goku wasn't at his limits at the time, he was observing Roshi on the sideline, and he transformed before getting into action.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:56 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:40 pm
Miracles wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:21 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:15 pm
Toyo retconing manga UI with anime UI is smart. If you can't beat it steal it.
It's not a retcon. In the manga, Goku was about to be finished by Jiren, UI activated by calming himself in that moment of life and death.
before he just needed to calm down ...

in fact as we already know he achieve it on his own
now ... he needs to recreate that scenario to break his limits .. the opponent must have enough power to exercise the same risk

it seems obvious to me that there was a change because both methods were explained differently
You are forgetting last chapter. Merus said Goku needs to calm his emotions in the face of shock to activate UI. This is exactly what Goku did when Jiren was about to exit him.
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:55 am
Miracles wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:21 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:15 pm
Toyo retconing manga UI with anime UI is smart. If you can't beat it steal it.
It's not a retcon. In the manga, Goku was about to be finished by Jiren, UI activated by calming himself in that moment of life and death.
Still a retcon.
It can't be when Goku just said he was in a life and death situation in the TOP.
mute_proxy wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:02 am
Miracles wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:21 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:15 pm
Toyo retconing manga UI with anime UI is smart. If you can't beat it steal it.
It's not a retcon. In the manga, Goku was about to be finished by Jiren, UI activated by calming himself in that moment of life and death.
Goku wasn't at his limits at the time, he was observing Roshi on the sideline, and he transformed before getting into action.
Goku was at his limits, he even exhausted his body to the utmost. He was put in a life and death situation against Jiren yet he remained calm in that chaotic moment and activated UI just like Merus said.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Michsi » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:18 am

BWri wrote:
Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:12 pm

He turned his back on 73 to get the drop on Shima thus opening himself up to getting grabbed after being told one of them copies powers by grabbing. He did that to save the other bad guys, but leaving himself open like that puts his own friends in danger and we see the results of that, his abilities were stolen and he created an impossible situation for himself, one he wouldn't survive without Gohan's intervention. For Piccolo to be such a careful and cerebral character, that was quite dumb.
He didn't turn his back. I specifically looked to see if there were any panels which showed their positions but there weren't. The reason he was grabbed by the neck was because 73 used that hedgehog's ability which was practically instant transmission except this time without the fancy portal which would've given him time to respond. Unless you think he should've let the gang die, he literally did nothing wrong. It
He did. He left them with someone stronger than he was who could've wiped them all away in one shot. That's dumb.

He went to save some that was in the process of dying- or at least that's what he knew. We can even see he was surprised- and a little disgruntled- that Jaco could fly and by the time he saw that, 73 and the other were already one their way to them.
That's just a lucky happenstance. He had no way of knowing that those two wouldn't just wipe out Dende, Bulma, Satan, Krillin, and the Macareni gang. He knows that they're low down killers, as evidenced by Shima attempting to murder Pasta.

So your answer to his predicament was to just let Jaco fall to his death? That's what you believe Piccolo's characterization should be like? Had it been Bulma that was falling, would you still think the same thing about his action? I;m sure he would've gone right back up there had 73 not gone after them the second he flew after Jaco.

Again, it feels like this is taking the most unfavorable interpretation of that chapter with gusto.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yasai9001 » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:10 pm

Great reply, Michsi. Couldn't have said any of that better myself.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:30 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:56 am
You are forgetting last chapter. Merus said Goku needs to calm his emotions in the face of shock to activate UI. This is exactly what Goku did when Jiren was about to exit him.
which obviously is not the only thing necessary ...

because now another is the main premise that is much more appropriate to anime ..

and that contradicts the manga in the scene where goku uses it on his own ...

I think I recognize a retcon when I see it ...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:04 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:30 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:56 am
You are forgetting last chapter. Merus said Goku needs to calm his emotions in the face of shock to activate UI. This is exactly what Goku did when Jiren was about to exit him.
which obviously is not the only thing necessary ...

because now another is the main premise that is much more appropriate to anime ..

and that contradicts the manga in the scene where goku uses it on his own ...

I think I recognize a retcon when I see it ...
If Goku hadn't achieved Migatte no Gokui in that moment and Goku had been eliminated by Jiren, do you think U7 could've won the Tournament of Power? The scene was set up to be a critical and literal do-or-die moment. If he fails to activate the ability in that moment, Jiren knocks him off the stage and U7 has no chance of victory.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:08 pm

batistabus wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:04 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:30 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:56 am
You are forgetting last chapter. Merus said Goku needs to calm his emotions in the face of shock to activate UI. This is exactly what Goku did when Jiren was about to exit him.
which obviously is not the only thing necessary ...

because now another is the main premise that is much more appropriate to anime ..

and that contradicts the manga in the scene where goku uses it on his own ...

I think I recognize a retcon when I see it ...
If Goku hadn't achieved Migatte no Gokui in that moment and Goku had been eliminated by Jiren, do you think U7 could've won the Tournament of Power? The scene was set up to be a critical and literal do-or-die moment. If he fails to activate the ability in that moment, Jiren knocks him off the stage and U7 has no chance of victory.
In that scene he already has the UI, only that he managed to tame it

in this scene .. he did it on his own
{Scanlation removed by Moderator.}

What is the main problem here?

1.- that the "new premise" just explained now ... but in the tournament neither whis nor roshi explained anything about it at the time.
2 .- What we saw in the tournament was clearly different with the scene already mentioned.

that ...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:16 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:30 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:56 am
You are forgetting last chapter. Merus said Goku needs to calm his emotions in the face of shock to activate UI. This is exactly what Goku did when Jiren was about to exit him.
which obviously is not the only thing necessary ...

because now another is the main premise that is much more appropriate to anime ..

and that contradicts the manga in the scene where goku uses it on his own ...

I think I recognize a retcon when I see it ...
"In the face of shock" is the same as the TOP's "life and death situation". Nothings changed to get UI.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Fri Oct 25, 2019 7:04 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 6:16 pm
Tai Lung wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:30 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri Oct 25, 2019 2:56 am
You are forgetting last chapter. Merus said Goku needs to calm his emotions in the face of shock to activate UI. This is exactly what Goku did when Jiren was about to exit him.
which obviously is not the only thing necessary ...

because now another is the main premise that is much more appropriate to anime ..

and that contradicts the manga in the scene where goku uses it on his own ...

I think I recognize a retcon when I see it ...
"In the face of shock" is the same as the TOP's "life and death situation". Nothings changed to get UI.
in the first scene it can probably coincide with that logic ... but in the second one it clearly transforms without any external factor

I was calm ...
I wasn't getting attacked
and jiren was was holding back in the battle vs frieza and 17

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