"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:42 am

Rakurai wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:15 am
I'm a little miffed at how Merus is implied to have ties to Angels as well. Is it impossible for new characters to have unique histories which have no relations to the gods above?
DBS started it's story with Beerus, a GoD. He is the one who made this franchise's revival a success. Therefore, everything in DBS is now connected to the godly realm.

Hit -> Debuted in Champa's arc
Goku Black -> Zamasu, who was a Kaioshin, had the main role (surprisingly enough Rumoosh didn't care about him though)
ToP -> It was THE arc focusing on GoDs, their universes and fighters
Broly -> Only happened because of the ToP resulting in Freeza being alive.
Moro -> Once again, connected to Kaioshins and the upper realm.

It all boils down to Battle of Gods. And it will be, until Goku and Vegeta finally surpass Beerus.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:35 am

Xeogran wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:42 am

DBS started it's story with Beerus, a GoD. He is the one who made this franchise's revival a success. Therefore, everything in DBS is now connected to the godly realm.

Hit -> Debuted in Champa's arc
Goku Black -> Zamasu, who was a Kaioshin, had the main role (surprisingly enough Rumoosh didn't care about him though)
ToP -> It was THE arc focusing on GoDs, their universes and fighters
Broly -> Only happened because of the ToP resulting in Freeza being alive.
Moro -> Once again, connected to Kaioshins and the upper realm.

It all boils down to Battle of Gods. And it will be, until Goku and Vegeta finally surpass Beerus.
I don't quite agree with DBS Broly being connected to the gods above. He is the only exception, however his image is somewhat tarnished by the fact that he's not an original character, but a rip-off of an old fan favorite.

Also, a vague relationship with the gods above had to be shoehorned into Freeza's history which also left a bad taste in my mouth.

I also don't agree with the statement that every character needs to be connected to the gods above. Sure, it could start and end with them, however we could also have original characters which add more depth to the lore while standing out in their own right. Moro while not the best villain in my eyes is a good balance of that given his antagonistic relationship with the Kaioshin, someone who wasn't nurtured but rather opposed them. I'm not even going to mention Hit cause, aside from some personal growth in the ToP, we're probably never going to see much of his own history.

This whole theory of Merus being an Angel was one that was entertained by fans but not taken seriously before, it wasn't necessary. Now it's basically being shoved down our throats. The mystery is fun, yes, but at the same time it only makes the DB universe seem smaller and more focused to a few cast, kind of like what happened with the Saiyans.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Issei189 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:49 am

jplaya2023 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:18 am
chapter was meh i'm tired of seeing gohan getting his ass kicked by random space pirates. Even if it was an android gohan should be powerful enough to beat him. He's galaxy ++ for crying out loud

we all knew meerus was angel who gave up some godhood to join the galatic patrol

how come whiz doesn't call the grand priest father and why hasn't he told beerus about moro yet.

moro said planet earth used to be monkeys but beerus says it used to be dinosaurs. I think we can see the continuity errors between TOTO and AT on this story.

the only thing i'm hoping for in this 2 month training is

- goku masters UI fully
- vegeta masters this useless spirit training which will do nothing against moro
- trunks and goten going into the ROSAT and using gotenks knowledge and becoming ssj3 as adults
- gohan training with whiz and ascending to mystik ssj red
- piccolo going to namek reading their book of legends and becoming way strong.

by the way where was 17 at? i'm pretty sure he should be stronger than gohan. Speaking of which why is he fighting in base? why didn't he use mystik gohan. You can tell because of the drawing he doesn't have that bang in the front and his face is drawn normally
Except Gohan was powerful enough to defeat him. I mean, Gohan clearly kicked his ass and was about to finish him off with a Kamehameha until 73 switched to Moro's abilities and absorbed it. Then he completely drained Gohan, Piccolo and Kuririn's energies, so that's the reason why they lost because they were powerless. Strength was never the issue here.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:53 am

Do ppl really still think that such power level-esque labels like 'galaxy++' tier have any meaning in DB? When has that ever been any meaningful or useful measure of strength? When has that ever been followed in DB? Asking an honest question here.

I really hope ppl don't start thinking that the current trio are capable of obliterating solar systems if they wanted to.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by jplaya2023 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:09 am

Rakurai wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:53 am
Do ppl really still think that such power level-esque labels like 'galaxy++' tier have any meaning in DB? When has that ever been any meaningful or useful measure of strength? When has that ever been followed in DB? Asking an honest question here.

I really hope ppl don't start thinking that the current trio are capable of obliterating solar systems if they wanted to.

in DBZ the strongest fighter won 99% of the time. Maybe since AT isn't writing the manga TOTO has taken his own liberties to the script and has done his own thing.

We know in DBZ gohan was superior to a being that was able to scream open dimensions (Super buu) casually. Now gohan (supposedly stronger) can't even beat great value amazo (from DC comics) it's wack

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:06 pm

Calling it: Next month’s chapter will be a timeskip!

The little fodder fight on earth ended. So there’s nothing else for them to waste time on. So Goku and Vegeta’s training will presume and Moro will keep eating planets and getting stronger while travelling to earth.

Next month’s chapter will be 2 months into the future and Goku and Vegeta’s training will finally finish.

I predict Goku and Vegeta will be about to start fighting Moro at the end of next month’s chapter.

I could be totally wrong on all of this. But this is definitely my prediction.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:37 pm

Well, FT arc had 12 chapters, ToP arc 16 (the actual tournament lasted 10), this arc has been going on for 12 chapters now, so I guess we don't have many chapters left, my guess is it ends around february/march.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by OLKv3 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:51 pm

jplaya2023 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:09 am
Rakurai wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:53 am
Do ppl really still think that such power level-esque labels like 'galaxy++' tier have any meaning in DB? When has that ever been any meaningful or useful measure of strength? When has that ever been followed in DB? Asking an honest question here.

I really hope ppl don't start thinking that the current trio are capable of obliterating solar systems if they wanted to.

in DBZ the strongest fighter won 99% of the time. Maybe since AT isn't writing the manga TOTO has taken his own liberties to the script and has done his own thing.

We know in DBZ gohan was superior to a being that was able to scream open dimensions (Super buu) casually. Now gohan (supposedly stronger) can't even beat great value amazo (from DC comics) it's wack
Why do you continue to ignore that Gohan got his energy drained?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Gt91 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:54 pm

Issei189 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:49 am
jplaya2023 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:18 am
chapter was meh i'm tired of seeing gohan getting his ass kicked by random space pirates. Even if it was an android gohan should be powerful enough to beat him. He's galaxy ++ for crying out loud

we all knew meerus was angel who gave up some godhood to join the galatic patrol

how come whiz doesn't call the grand priest father and why hasn't he told beerus about moro yet.

moro said planet earth used to be monkeys but beerus says it used to be dinosaurs. I think we can see the continuity errors between TOTO and AT on this story.

the only thing i'm hoping for in this 2 month training is

- goku masters UI fully
- vegeta masters this useless spirit training which will do nothing against moro
- trunks and goten going into the ROSAT and using gotenks knowledge and becoming ssj3 as adults
- gohan training with whiz and ascending to mystik ssj red
- piccolo going to namek reading their book of legends and becoming way strong.

by the way where was 17 at? i'm pretty sure he should be stronger than gohan. Speaking of which why is he fighting in base? why didn't he use mystik gohan. You can tell because of the drawing he doesn't have that bang in the front and his face is drawn normally
Except Gohan was powerful enough to defeat him. I mean, Gohan clearly kicked his ass and was about to finish him off with a Kamehameha until 73 switched to Moro's abilities and absorbed it. Then he completely drained Gohan, Piccolo and Kuririn's energies, so that's the reason why they lost because they were powerless. Strength was never the issue here.
Exactly, even goku/vegeta didn't stand a chance against moro.

Now they have 2 months to train. Maybe gohan and piccolo will get some sort of power up. We'll see.
I hope not to see goku/vegeta versus all again.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kagari » Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:55 pm

OLKv3 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:51 pm
jplaya2023 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:09 am
Rakurai wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:53 am
Do ppl really still think that such power level-esque labels like 'galaxy++' tier have any meaning in DB? When has that ever been any meaningful or useful measure of strength? When has that ever been followed in DB? Asking an honest question here.

I really hope ppl don't start thinking that the current trio are capable of obliterating solar systems if they wanted to.

in DBZ the strongest fighter won 99% of the time. Maybe since AT isn't writing the manga TOTO has taken his own liberties to the script and has done his own thing.

We know in DBZ gohan was superior to a being that was able to scream open dimensions (Super buu) casually. Now gohan (supposedly stronger) can't even beat great value amazo (from DC comics) it's wack
Why do you continue to ignore that Gohan got his energy drained?
People ignoring the full picture. 73 couldn't even touch Gohan until he brought out Moro's absorption power.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:42 pm

- Chapter 54 -

DB vilains being stupid... what else is new?! Instead of finish them off, let's give time for the good guys to get stronger...

Gohan being badass is cool, but Toyotaro's lack of creativity made the fight boring. I loved the spirit gun move though!
This is still much better than that ROF disaster. I really like the Clark Kent's vibes Gohan gives.

I don't care if Gohan isn't the strongest or doesn't even want to be a fighter. What I want is to see him shine when his friends need his help and not being an anorexic loser, who isn't sure if he can use SSJ and goes down with one punch by Freeza's base form.

As for his battle outfit, I rather him to have his own outfit. The gi he had when trained with Goten and his great saiyaman outfit when he fought Dabra (no helmet) are so underrated!!

Regardless of anything, the writing of this arc is much more ambitious than anything that came from this franchise after GT ended. And Toyotaro is showing to have more potential than I thought. I don't know what happened behind the scenes, it feels like Toriyama just said to him "Go wild! I want to see what you can do on your own." and he's doing the best he can to prove his worth. I seriously hope he keeps going on like this.

Gorgeous volume cover, by the way!! Easily top 3!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by funrush » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:16 pm

Solid chapter, I like the hook at the end with Whis asking about Meerus. Looks like he really is an angel.

However I've been chomping at the bit to get back to the Yardrat stuff. The idea of Vegeta learning how to shrink/grow, instant TP, use shadow clones, etc. sounds really awesome and a cool way to shake up his fights.

After using Moro's powers the mimic guy switches to a third person's ability, and that person didn't look familiar to me. Is that a new character or is it someone I've forgotten?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Block88 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:03 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:38 pm
Block88 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:15 pm
Okay? That doesn’t mean much that was only two times that happened where Buu was a straight up fuck up while cell he fixed at the end
Y’all made it seem like he did multiple times
Goten growing up without a father might disagree with you about Gohan fixing his own screw ups.

He doesn't have to do it 29 times to show he tends to gets cocky and make mistakes that end really bad. He got two big games in the original run and in both he dropped the ball, if it weren't for Goku's sacrifice he could've never fixed it in the first place. He put Cell to sleep but still got Goku, Trunks and Kaio Sama killed.

There was a pattern in Z with Gohan, you can't deny that, but that pattern is gone in Super and that is what I'm celebrating, that he didn't got sucker-punched like Piccolo in the previous chapter.
Again makes no sense
It was only twice in which like stated Buu was only a clear case of it

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kagari » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:47 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:42 pm
- Chapter 54 -

DB vilains being stupid... what else is new?! Instead of finish them off, let's give time for the good guys to get stronger...

Gohan being badass is cool, but Toyotaro's lack of creativity made the fight boring. I loved the spirit gun move though!
This is still much better than that ROF disaster. I really like the Clark Kent's vibes Gohan gives.

I don't care if Gohan isn't the strongest or doesn't even want to be a fighter. What I want is to see him shine when his friends need his help and not being an anorexic loser, who isn't sure if he can use SSJ and goes down with one punch by Freeza's base form.

As for his battle outfit, I rather him to have his own outfit. The gi he had when trained with Goten and his great saiyaman outfit when he fought Dabra (no helmet) are so underrated!!

Regardless of anything, the writing of this arc is much more ambitious than anything that came from this franchise after GT ended. And Toyotaro is showing to have more potential than I thought. I don't know what happened behind the scenes, it feels like Toriyama just said to him "Go wild! I want to see what you can do on your own." and he's doing the best he can to prove his worth. I seriously hope he keeps going on like this.

Gorgeous volume cover, by the way!! Easily top 3!
Resurrection F was almost 5 years ago... Gohan was treated well and strong again in the Universe Survival arc back in 2017. It's time to let RoF go.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:26 am

jplaya2023 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:09 am
Rakurai wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:53 am
Do ppl really still think that such power level-esque labels like 'galaxy++' tier have any meaning in DB? When has that ever been any meaningful or useful measure of strength? When has that ever been followed in DB? Asking an honest question here.

I really hope ppl don't start thinking that the current trio are capable of obliterating solar systems if they wanted to.

in DBZ the strongest fighter won 99% of the time. Maybe since AT isn't writing the manga TOTO has taken his own liberties to the script and has done his own thing.

We know in DBZ gohan was superior to a being that was able to scream open dimensions (Super buu) casually. Now gohan (supposedly stronger) can't even beat great value amazo (from DC comics) it's wack
Yes because Raditz beating Goku & Piccolo, Saiyan arc Vegeta beating Goku on Earth, Super Perfect Cell beating SS2 Gohan, SS Goku beating Android 19, SS3 Goku beating Kid Buu were all things that happened in the manga, am I right? Or are you implying that Toriyama didn't come up with the opposite of those events and just let his assistants try scripting those parts?

If the only thing you're looking is to calculate & compare power levels or figure out how many galaxies Moro's henchmen can blow up. Then DBS isn't for you and you should probably stick with DB fanfic like YoungJiji's.

Also, Idk who TOTO is but I strongly suggest you put more thought into what you write next time unless you want to make yourself look more like a fool. Or at least try to read the chapter properly instead of throwing your hands up in the air about a character's loss.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TheOverlyMadHatter » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:20 am

Welp, Merus being an Angel is anything but confirmed.

Enjoyed this last chapter quite a bit. Toyotarou seems to be improving his page structure; less clutter, and the fights are easier to follow and more creative. A little disappointed the fight on Earth was settled so quickly. Would have loved to see characters like Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Roshi, and 18 join the fray since this could have been a fight where they wouldn't be completely fodderized. 17 is probably still out at sea sipping on Margaritas with his totally existant family.
funrush wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:16 pm
After using Moro's powers the mimic guy switches to a third person's ability, and that person didn't look familiar to me. Is that a new character or is it someone I've forgotten?
He got that power from that Hedgehog-like race whose planet Moro & Friends invaded last chapter. He copied their portal opening powers.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:44 am

This chapter confirmed a long running gag I had with my friends, that the heroes will never get to use their cool villain powers again but villains sure can. No gigantification for Piccolo, even when it would have been cool in the ToP, but villains like 73 get to do it willy nilly.

I did overall enjoy this one and am looking forward to rereading it.

Good
+I like how it jumped into the action right away.
+Loved Gohan's reference to his Oozaru transformation
+Loved the Piccolo/Gohan banter "I don't know how to feel about you defeating a copy of me so easily" and the clothes beam.
+I find it interesting how careful and strategic Moro is being. He's still scared of something, even going so far to use 73 to store his powers. Very fascinating.
+The Merus mystery is building nicely.
+Jaco's eyesight is still top tier.
+++Hellzone Grenade

Neutral
=Would have preferred to see more training of Gohan and Piccolo so references to Gohan knowing Piccolo's moves feels less "out of nowhere". It makes sense that he would be familiar with Piccolo's techniques, but since I've never seen a panel of Gohan even witnessing Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade or Gigantification, I immediately head scratch for a while.

Bad
-As much as it makes sense and as good as Gohan did before 73's haxx, it's still annoying how quickly the B-team jobs out. They got no wins here. The point of using strong henchmen is so the hero can look strong overcoming them but the B-team can't even overcome the henchmen. Hopefully they get the runback, while Goku and Vegeta fight Moro. There'd be no satisfaction in Goku or Vegeta one-shotting 73 after what he and his crew managed to do to Piccolo, Gohan, and Krillin.


Rakurai wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:15 am
I'm a little miffed at how Merus is implied to have ties to Angels as well. Is it impossible for new characters to have unique histories which have no relations to the gods above?
This is DB we're talking about (especially Super). Usually the most convenient path is the one that's taken. Making a character related to one of the most mysterious and powerful species of beings is the easiest way to get them over with the audience. Honestly, I'll take that over more random aliens just being stronger than established characters for no reason. Either that or introduce a new power mechanic into the series that makes random strong aliens make sense. That's what I thought god ki would do, but really, it does very little and doesn't matter when people like Jiren exist.
jplaya2023 wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:09 am
We know in DBZ gohan was superior to a being that was able to scream open dimensions (Super buu) casually. Now gohan (supposedly stronger) can't even beat great value amazo (from DC comics) it's wack
I kind of like it. It opens the door for more creative fights and combatants. Great Value Amazo does crack me up though, because it's true. :lol:

I just need it to make a little more sense, otherwise the gains that everyone's made in previous arcs feels more and more useless and it stops feeling like anyone is making any progress strengthwise. The Moro power boost to his cronies lends it some weight here, but it still feels over the top that random space pirates can contend with people thousands of times stronger than Namek arc Final Frieza. And even with abilities like absorption, it seems absurd that Gohan can't just speed blitz 73. But now that I think of it, he did get powered by Gohan's Kamehameha
funrush wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:16 pm
However I've been chomping at the bit to get back to the Yardrat stuff. The idea of Vegeta learning how to shrink/grow, instant TP, use shadow clones, etc. sounds really awesome and a cool way to shake up his fights.
Nooooooo! I feel this is so out of character and kind of goofy for Vegeta. I prefer to keep him separated from that era of DB. At most, I'd like maybe a single clone that talks just as much s*** as he does. That would be hilarious. But I'd rather the DB gimmicks stay with the DB characters. Vegeta's encroached on their territory enough.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Yasai9001 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:01 pm

I see people don't like the fact that Moro is willing to let the protagonists get stronger; yes, it's a trope that's happened more than once in the past, but it actually makes the most sense here. Moro himself said that he'll let them get stronger because it'll be more chi for him to take. Everyone else left the Earth because they had to follow orders.

I don't see the big deal here. Moro only thinks that Goku and Vegeta are training to become strong enough to beat him, not to learn techniques and abilities that'll help beat him. Moro's logic is totally fine here in my opinion. He's actually being smart instead of being stupid.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kanassa » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:27 pm

Yasai9001 wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:01 pm
I see people don't like the fact that Moro is willing to let the protagonists get stronger; yes, it's a trope that's happened more than once in the past, but it actually makes the most sense here. Moro himself said that he'll let them get stronger because it'll be more chi for him to take. Everyone else left the Earth because they had to follow orders.

I don't see the big deal here. Moro only thinks that Goku and Vegeta are training to become strong enough to beat him, not to learn techniques and abilities that'll help beat him. Moro's logic is totally fine here in my opinion. He's actually being smart instead of being stupid.
Because it's another instance of Moro flip-flopping on what the fuck he wants to do, makes the chapter feel more pointless and is just general stupidy for a character the manga really wants you to think is smart. The lazy goat man needs to make up his mind. "Don't worry, NEXT TIME I WILL TOTALLY EAT YOU AND KILL YOU... Okay, I'll let you escape to eat more off of you even though this has fucked me over every god damn time." Usually, when this trope is used in a story, it's used like once at the end of the second act of said story arc. I don't recall many stories that have used it this many times with the same villain in the same story arc.

It especially adds a feeling of repetition when Gohan's fight basically ended in the same way every fight has ended in this arc.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:44 pm

Am I the only one who's badly waiting for the current manga-only content to be animated?

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