"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[FortuneSSJ]

So far the Yardratians didn't show any new technique that we haven't seen before, so I hope Vegeta learns something that's actually new...
I'm also expecting Merus to do something more, otherwise I'm not seeing why bother to introduce a random new angel as galactic patroller and help Goku mastering UI. Whis still exists...

[SSJgogeto]

So Moro destroyed a lot of planets in the galaxy but he never crossed paths with Frieza or Broly in these two months? I know, the galaxy is pretty big and Broly is still in Vampa, but I still find it strange.

[Tai Lung]

the moro arc does not work to more chapters..... in just 1 or 2 should end this already lengthened too much .....

honestly the mystery they present are very poor
the mystery of Goku black was good because at least it was not easy to know how it is possible that there is an "evil goku" and at least it made you think, how was that possible, nobody could guess the answer before it was revealed ... with Merus was so obvious that in a short time he was guessed ... it would have been more interesting if he wasn't and just be a warrior from another universe simply, but ... no

It doesn't matter that he is an angel ... I still believe that Merus is a Gary Stu ... that these angels such strong beings want to help take away too much of the tension ... can literally solve them the easy problem with the power and abilities that they have in addition to wanting to do it ..... the only one who should meddle in the training of goku it was whis his teacher that another angel that nobody knows comes out of nowhere ... that's so boring

I still think that vegeta is very badly represented in this arc ... that someone like him ... thinks so hard to kill an evil opponent seems out of character he is not like that and I sincerely hope that all criminals die of a that idea is terrible and incoherent with the level of mortality originally raised in the series

something good? sure the drawing is very good ... and the fight was acceptable besides the dialogues of the fight of vegeta were of my interest and we confirm that the spiritt control is only ki outside of which many people said otherwise

[Miracles]

Vegeta is showing nice control over his Ki. When the Yardrat told him to be mindful of the power he didn't heed.
When Vegeta wanted to finger blast, which usually are pencil like linear blasts, unknowingly a huge ki attack fired off.
Also, I believe Vegeta guided back that ship back through ki control to Moro's goon. I don't think he realized it.

[Noitsnothim]

Anybody else notice that Merus halo started to appear around his neck when he was about to go all out?

Happy you mentioned this cause I just realized something

all the angels who have their halos around their necks is because they're at full power all the time (No matter what) if and when they are to ever fight they are prepared at all costs and aren't holding anything back

I'm happy Toyo threw that in

[Rakurai]

honestly the mystery they present are very poor
the mystery of Goku black was good because at least it was not easy to know how it is possible that there is an "evil goku" and at least it made you think, how was that possible, nobody could guess the answer before it was revealed ... with Merus was so obvious that in a short time he was guessed ... it would have been more interesting if he wasn't and just be a warrior from another universe simply, but ... no

I can't believe someone would actually think that the "mystery" of Goku Black is better than a real mystery that was of Merus?

Because there was absolutely no way that Zamasu, whose introduction immediately signaled his path to darkness and whom showed a great interest to Goku, was the one inhabiting Goku's body right from the very start. Absolutely no way.

[Tai Lung]

honestly the mystery they present are very poor
the mystery of Goku black was good because at least it was not easy to know how it is possible that there is an "evil goku" and at least it made you think, how was that possible, nobody could guess the answer before it was revealed ... with Merus was so obvious that in a short time he was guessed ... it would have been more interesting if he wasn't and just be a warrior from another universe simply, but ... no

I can't believe someone would actually think that the "mystery" of Goku Black is better than a real mystery that was of Merus?

Because there was absolutely no way that Zamasu, whose introduction immediately signaled his path to darkness and whom showed a great interest to Goku, was the one inhabiting Goku's body right from the very start. Absolutely no way.

Tell me who predicted it before?
most just said things as goten, goku from the trunks timeline (because he touched his chest) or goku from another universe

not really because zamasu shows contempt for goku and mortals ... and goku denied the possibility that zamasu was goku black at mentioning that ki was considerably different and not evil besides that it was not known how zamasu formed an alliance with "evil goku"

The mystery of merus is bad ... it is very easy to guess because he was Gary stu without mistakes that he came out of nowhere
there was no other way... it must be an angel

[Nightbane]

honestly the mystery they present are very poor
the mystery of Goku black was good because at least it was not easy to know how it is possible that there is an "evil goku" and at least it made you think, how was that possible, nobody could guess the answer before it was revealed ... with Merus was so obvious that in a short time he was guessed ... it would have been more interesting if he wasn't and just be a warrior from another universe simply, but ... no

I can't believe someone would actually think that the "mystery" of Goku Black is better than a real mystery that was of Merus?

Because there was absolutely no way that Zamasu, whose introduction immediately signaled his path to darkness and whom showed a great interest to Goku, was the one inhabiting Goku's body right from the very start. Absolutely no way.

Tell me who predicted it before?
most just said things as goten, goku from the trunks timeline (because he touched his chest) or goku from another universe

not really because zamasu shows contempt for goku and mortals ... and goku denied the possibility that zamasu was goku black at mentioning that ki was considerably different and not evil besides that it was not known how zamasu formed an alliance with "evil goku"

The mystery of merus is bad ... it is very easy to guess because he was Gary stu without mistakes that he came out of nowhere
there was no other way... it must be an angel

Fam you shit on the Moro arc whenever you get, it's sad that you do considering it's the best Super arc yet and the vast vast majority agree not only on here but other websites as well.

[Michsi]

So I finally have this a proper read and I wasn't really digging anything here. It was neat to find out more about angels and their rules, but Meerus' reveal and subsequent removal from the arc was rather....anticlimactic. The rest was Vegeta pandering which I just can never bring myself to get into and that sucks because it takes up so much of the manga.

I really, really hope we Goku has his proper fight soon, he barely had a turn this arc.

[Rakurai]

Tell me who predicted it before?
most just said things as goten, goku from the trunks timeline (because he touched his chest) or goku from another universe

not really because zamasu shows contempt for goku and mortals ... and goku denied the possibility that zamasu was goku black at mentioning that ki was considerably different and not evil besides that it was not known how zamasu formed an alliance with "evil goku"

The mystery of merus is bad ... it is very easy to guess because he was Gary stu without mistakes that he came out of nowhere
there was no other way... it must be an angel

Okay now I know you're just trolling.

Those Goten theories were nothing more than a joke at best. Anybody who took those seriously were about as far into absurd conspiracy theories as Hit's clone or evil GP.

Everybody and their mother predicted Goku Black = Zamasu as soon as Zamasu debuted in the anime.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/4 ... on_thread/

And with the way that Toei marketed the FTrunks arc, it was quite obvious that Zamasu and Black were related if not the same ppl. Whis even made the same remark that their kis were similar, the ultimate giveaway.

See the difference between Black and Merus is that the majority of fans online believed that Black was Zamasu, due to the anime/manga's painfully obvious hints, hardly constituting a mystery. The Merus is an Angel theory wasn't taken seriously until Ch. 54, since before that we saw that Merus couldn't even fly without boots. Knowing the principles of UI does not immediately mean you're a god - Roshi proved that.

[TheSaiyanGod]

honestly the mystery they present are very poor
the mystery of Goku black was good because at least it was not easy to know how it is possible that there is an "evil goku" and at least it made you think, how was that possible, nobody could guess the answer before it was revealed ... with Merus was so obvious that in a short time he was guessed ... it would have been more interesting if he wasn't and just be a warrior from another universe simply, but ... no

I can't believe someone would actually think that the "mystery" of Goku Black is better than a real mystery that was of Merus?

Because there was absolutely no way that Zamasu, whose introduction immediately signaled his path to darkness and whom showed a great interest to Goku, was the one inhabiting Goku's body right from the very start. Absolutely no way.

Tell me who predicted it before?
most just said things as goten, goku from the trunks timeline (because he touched his chest) or goku from another universe

not really because zamasu shows contempt for goku and mortals ... and goku denied the possibility that zamasu was goku black at mentioning that ki was considerably different and not evil besides that it was not known how zamasu formed an alliance with "evil goku"

The mystery of merus is bad ... it is very easy to guess because he was Gary stu without mistakes that he came out of nowhere
there was no other way... it must be an angel

Remember when people said Merus was a Gary stu, and complained because he was able to easily handle SSJ3 Goku being just a patrolman?

They even said it made no sense for someone like him to know UI and make Goku awaken the transformation while Whis didn't. Merus angel's theory was not taken seriously until a few chapters ago. Of course after the clues given it was easy, but no one imagined it at first

[Tai Lung]

Okay now I know you're just trolling.

if you want to think it with everyone who disagrees with you, ok
you save me the work having to answer you

Those Goten theories were nothing more than a joke at best. Anybody who took those seriously were about as far into absurd conspiracy theories as Hit's clone or evil GP.

you would be denying that there were people who genuinely believed it ... now they will tell you no but there is even a topic in the forum about it

Everybody and their mother predicted Goku Black = Zamasu as soon as Zamasu debuted in the anime.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/4 ... on_thread/.

false .... and the link you have shown is only a lot of people complaining about gohan, others who believe that gowasu is black.
Gokublack copies technique and forms, or that it was from another universe

only 1 mentions that possibility and he mentions that he is not sure .... and again those possibilities were discarded when zamasu appeared next to black because nobody could guess the entire process of the zamasu plan

And with the way that Toei marketed the FTrunks arc, it was quite obvious that Zamasu and Black were related if not the same ppl. Whis even made the same remark that their kis were similar, the ultimate giveaway.

See the difference between Black and Merus is that the majority of fans online believed that Black was Zamasu, due to the anime/manga's painfully obvious hints, hardly constituting a mystery. The Merus is an Angel theory wasn't taken seriously until Ch. 54, since before that we saw that Merus couldn't even fly without boots. Knowing the principles of UI does not immediately mean you're a god - Roshi proved that.

fake again whis said his energy was similar however goku denied this after having his fight with him
this theory was presented until before they reach namek
The character's design, vegeta suspected of him, that made a lot of impossible feats for someone in a universe with such a low mortality level and that Merus is also the name of a wine brand pff until the dog guesses it

Roshi fighting with Jiren is stupid that nobody takes seriously lol

[batistabus]

It's funny, I think the Merus mystery worked especially effectively because of "meta" reasons. There was always this assumption that Toyotaro is incompetent, or falling back on tired DB tropes, or that this is filler and can't possibly be important, so critical hints were overlooked. From the first chapter Merus appeared, all the complaints were "How were Vegeta and Goku caught off-guard again?? Such lazy writing by Toyotaro...", completely ignoring that it was shown and stated that these characters were NOT caught off-guard, and that Vegeta couldn't sense Merus' power. There were a lot of little hints along the way (until it became more blatant in Merus training Goku in the ROSAT), but some preferred to just call Merus a "Gary Stu" and blame the mystery on bad writing rather than use critical thinking, or at the very least, keep an open mind. So it goes.

As for the chapter I liked it a lot. I'm busy with the holidays, so I won't do a thorough review, but I want to address the criticisms of "Vegeta wank"...

I don't understand this perceived "bias" fans think Toyotaro has for Vegeta. I thought Broly was Toyotaro's favorite character, hence "rushing the Tournament of Power to get to the Broly arc" or the ToP's "Kale wank"? Actually, his favorite character is Goku. Unlike fans, when you properly handle the Dragon Ball series and its characters, you choose to put characters in the spotlight based on the story you're trying to tell. A major factor in this arc has been the final steps of Vegeta's redemption. He's made right on his wrong against the Namekians, he's balanced his spirit, and he's developed a sense of mercy. If Vegeta were to die at this point, I'd bet he'd even end up in heaven. Aside from that, Goku's growth in Super doesn't work without Vegeta to race against. I prefer Vegeta going his own way over just following in Goku's footsteps. Again, this is falling into the lazy trend of "blame Toyotaro for what I don't immediately understand/like" rather than engaging with the work itself.

[Tai Lung]

Fam you shit on the Moro arc whenever you get, it's sad that you do considering it's the best Super arc yet and the vast vast majority agree not only on here but other websites as well.

that many say "something" does not make it true do you think that humans only use 10% of the brain?
it is very easy for me to show that it is one of the worst super arcs

a boring villain, a ridiculous concept with space criminals, inconsistencies with the level of mortality, Vegeta out of character, inconsistencies with the power of dai kaioshin, generally repetitive fights and with nothing new to show so far, Gohan and the others being defeated just to make time again ... almost the same as fnf and I am sincerely offended that they copy tournament character designs

etc etc and could go on with a list

and no, with that I don't want to offend anyone either if someone likes "the moro arc" good for them.

Remember when people said Merus was a Gary stu, and complained because he was able to easily handle SSJ3 Goku being just a patrolman?

They even said it made no sense for someone like him to know UI and make Goku awaken the transformation while Whis didn't. Merus angel's theory was not taken seriously until a few chapters ago. Of course after the clues given it was easy, but no one imagined it at first

if they imagined it before arriving at namek ....Of course the didn't take it so seriously ...but just by investigating the meaning of his name you could confirm that

Gary Stu is not only someone who is very strong but also someone who has no mistakes in his exploits and even in his personality
merus is still perfect in that ... even now as angel is someone very special

[FrioPolar]

Why do you keep paying attention to "Tai Lung"? Just ignore him.

[Tai Lung]

Why do you keep paying attention to "Tai Lung"? Just ignore him.

if you have something to tell me directly do it

unlike you I do not criticize or offend anyone for their opinions I have made it clear that everyone has their own way of thinking about it and I have even mentioned good things about chapters that I liked like buu and piccolo

I have said it before you can ignore me if you want but if your only defense is to belittle me for my opinions I think we already know who the troll

[LightBing]

Entertaining chapter, I enjoy these little "side-quests" specially if it involves Vegeta.

About Merus, we need more about him and the angels. Otherwise his inclusion is simply a plot device to train Goku and that would be pretty lame...
Either he's a plot device or organically inserted.

The Yardrats contribution is a little harder to swallow. Spirit unbalance is something that should be resolved by now, right? I mean Vegeta can easily switch between SSG and SSB. It could be something different but the shallow explanation leaves me doubtful.

I was hoping Vegeta would develop his own style and techniques, a branching path from Goku's Ultra Instinct, so far the only thing he did was get stronger...

After a return to form the last couple of chapters are disappointing. This arc has been mediocre, the final confrontation needs to be strong to elevate it. Although I doubt it can reach the Tournament and Goku Black one's, specially the later.

[Noitsnothim]

Why do you keep paying attention to "Tai Lung"? Just ignore him.

if you have something to tell me directly do it

unlike you I do not criticize or offend anyone for their opinions I have made it clear that everyone has their own way of thinking about it and I have even mentioned good things about chapters that I liked like buu and piccolo

I have said it before you can ignore me if you want but if your only defense is to belittle me for my opinions I think we already know who the troll

Dude shut up and quit pestering Rakurai unlike you he's always backed up his claims with factual evidence to support what he's arguing (Such as the Goku Black being Zamasu revelation)

[TheSaiyanGod]

Remember when people said Merus was a Gary stu, and complained because he was able to easily handle SSJ3 Goku being just a patrolman?

They even said it made no sense for someone like him to know UI and make Goku awaken the transformation while Whis didn't. Merus angel's theory was not taken seriously until a few chapters ago. Of course after the clues given it was easy, but no one imagined it at first

if they imagined it before arriving at namek ....Of course the didn't take it so seriously ...but just by investigating the meaning of his name you could confirm that

Gary Stu is not only someone who is very strong but also someone who has no mistakes in his exploits and even in his personality
merus is still perfect in that ... even now as angel is someone very special

And then people said he couldn't be an angel because of the color of his skin and his hair. The name was not suggestive enough to make Merus Angel's theory strong until a few chapters ago, when Toyotaro gave very clear evidence that this was true.

Merus is an angel in training, he was in danger of being erased because he was about to break the law of angels. I don't know how he is this "perfect being" that you said

[DiscountDabi]

So far the Yardratians didn't show any new technique that we haven't seen before, so I hope Vegeta learns something that's actually new...
I'm also expecting Merus to do something more, otherwise I'm not seeing why bother to introduce a random new angel as galactic patroller and help Goku mastering UI. Whis still exists...

I would argue that while Whis taught Goku to go ultra instinct, Merus is Superior when it actually comes to training him to do it. Since no amount of training Whis would be willing to do would push Goku to that point where he got lucky in the tournament of power. Which is where Merus enters.

Merus was willing to help train Goku to use ultra instinct, not because he was getting something out of it like Whis and getting food. He did it because he genuinely wanted to help Goku. And was willing to push the line of what an angel is allowed to do to help him there. Something Whis would never be willing to do.

Edit: Want to add how this arc could have Merus sacrifice himself for the Universe because of that Bias he has for the side of good. It would be a really good way to make this character a lot have called a Gary Sue and devoid of Character have a really interesting moment.