"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Brojack » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:05 am

Rakurai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:58 pm
I think if you dig deep enough, you'll find a lot of villains are pale imitations of one another in DB. Vegeta was a 'pale imitation' of Raditz. Freeza was a 'pale imitation' of King Piccolo. So on & so forth.
Vegeta was hardly anything like Raditz and the only comparison between Frieza and King Piccolo was a similar motivation. In either of those cases though the latter villain was drastically better.
And I don't see how Moro is a pale imitation to any of those characters you just mentioned.
He was a wrinkly old fossil who seeks and uses the Dragon Balls to regain his youth but even old kicked Gokus ass...just like King Piccolo.

He travels to Namek with the desire of seeking the Dragon Balls and eventually destroys the planet and it's people...just like Frieza. He leads a bunch of minions as they travel throughout and terrorise the universe... just like Frieza. He heads to Earth where said minions fight the Z Fighter scrubs before fighting Goku and Vegeta.... just like Frieza.

He absorbs energy to become stronger...just like Cell.

He's a villain who destroyed countless planets, fought the Kai, was "stopped" by Grand Kai, was confined for millions of years before being released....just like Buu.

He's a powerful anthropomorphic animal that's been around for millions of years...just like Beerus.

He has just other better characters traits rolled into one boring package.
I find Moro's design to be infinitely more interesting.
It would have been interesting 8 years ago. Now he's just yet another anthropomorphic animal from a series that gave a cat, a mouse, a fox, a elephant, a rabbit, a trio of dogs and a bear.

It's just the same thing again except this time it's a goat. He even looks worse now than before, when he was sporting the homeless bum look he at least somewhat different. Now he couldn't look more generic.
His personality far more interesting to me than Buu's. And the way he's interacted w/ other antagonists & teamed up w/ Galactic Patrol prisoners is far more interesting than just wreaking havoc across the universe.
And what is so interesting about it? Like practically every other antagonist that has a crew beneath him, he doesn't give the slightest shit about them. He finds them useless and would gladly kill them at a moment's notice and surely will do.

Typical bad guy will kill his minions to show how bad of a guy he is. Something we saw with Vegeta, Lord Slug, Frieza, Bojack, Hearts, Mechikabura etc. It's just the same thing as always.

What actually would of been different would have been if he actually valued his minions but no it's always the same thing.

What else was so interesting about his personality? That he's so evil he'd kill a young Namek? Because Frieza actually did that already. That's he arrogant and cocky, sure that he'll defeat the good guys? Like every single antagonist.

He's awful, he's not charismatic like Frieza, he's not mysterious like Cell, he's not comical like Buu, he's not part of the series lore and history like Beerus, he doesn't have interesting techniques like Hit, he's not so two shaded like Zamasu, he's not cool or bad ass or imposing like Jiren or Broly.

He has nothing going for him at all. He's just like Lord Slug or Bojack. A forgettable basic villain that Toriyama had little to no involvement with.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:07 am

I think the most interesting qualities of Moro are his creepy demeanor and aura, and how he absorbs energy and builds his minions around it.
But yeah, he's pretty generic and was better looking when old. At least, the arc he brings is very good.
On a side note, I don't think Hearts killed Zamasu to show how bad he is -- he was simply using Zamasu who had completely different ideals to him, but I reckon he didn't kill other minions.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:43 am

Brojack wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:44 pm
Rakurai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:38 pm
He answered a question to you in this thread & you replied in a manner that was pretty condescending & also irrelevant to what he was addressing.
He didn't answer any question of mine. I made the observation that a mod took the opportunity to just sticky his own threads over more relevant ones and he just popped up to say it wasn't true...though that's clearly what happened.

That happened days ago, why are you bringing it up now? Kinda weird that people keep going on about it still.
I find Moro to be a step-down from Jiren. I do like that he's made fools of Goku & Vegeta & forcing them to rethink their usual approaches to battle, but personality-wise he's just a stereotypical Z villain, w/ none of the charisma that someone like Freeza had. Doesn't help that Toyotarou likes to draw him w/ his mouth gaping wide open.

He's still better than kid Buu, who literally had nothing going on for him, but that isn't saying much.
He can't be compared to Kid Buu who was one of several different incarnations of Buu. Kid Buu at least had personality behind him and a good character design. He also wasn't meant to be much of a character, he was basically the last form of a final boss in a video game.

His backstory wasn't exactly interesting but it was different from other villains in the manga before him. Just a monster that wreaked havoc across the Universe and that's all he takes pleasure in. Like DC's Doomsday.

Moro is a pale imitation of elements of Frieza, Cell and Buu wrapped up together. No interesting design, no interesting personality, no interesting motivations, no interesting backstory, no interesting abilities and no originality.

He's the equivalent of a Android 14 or something. A standard throwaway 90's DBZ movie villain.

Hearts is a much better than Moro and that's the sad damn truth. A character from mini fan service episodes is a far better villain than the one from the Dragon Ball Super manga that's been around for over a year in full length chapters.
And you know what?? All of this is 100% subjective and 100% your own opinion. Yet you’re presenting them as facts. These are not true facts, i disagree with a lot of them. This Arc is awesome and so is Moro. He has more personality than Jiren and Kid Buu taken together (as you claim them to have more than Moro) that one is not simply subjective. Moro does have an interesting design in my opinion. Since it is based on real world abrahamic myths and fables. Moro is somewhat demonic and thus invites a lot of theories and speculation along the way. Also, the symbolism of his attire is interesting and revealing. Again, adding to the conspiracy theory lore. It’s most certainly better than Jiren’s, who had the worst character design ever. A random stereotypical Alien. That’s somehow stronger than a God of Destruction (WTF! That’s the WORST form of writing ever!). Moro is an Ancient Goat Wizard, with exceptionally strong magical capabilities. One who is evil to the core, actually EATS planets, and evolves along the way from old to young again and beyond. Rather than Jiren’s static, unchanging, fixed power level. Moro has a FAR better story and character than Jiren in my opinion. This negativity by people like you really needs to stop.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:55 am

I had this theory that the Dragon Room approached Toriyama to reboot other old movie villains and he declined so Toyotaro decided to mash a bunch of them together to create Moro. Besides the similarities Brojack mentioned, Moro absorbs a planet's lifeforce like the Tree of Might or Big Gete Star since he also targeted New Namek and a galactic prisoner who was sealed by a god like Bojack. He also obtains his youth like Lord Slug and ancient monster who eats energy like Hirudegarn although those traits were already borrowed from manga villains. I don't think that necessarily makes him a bad villain but hopefully he does more to make himself standout and more than the sum of his parts and whatnot.

I'm enjoying this saga so far but different strokes for different folks. It does somewhat feel like a filler, relatively low stakes saga since it comes after the God of the Multiverse threatening several universes. In comparison, a bad guy wanting to eat all life in the galaxy is pretty low stakes. It's difficult to top the stakes of the...ToP so it's understandable they might want to hold that off until a final endgame-type saga. I still feel it had some good moments. This saga is still ongoing so I prefer to stay positive and see how it ends to judge it as a whole.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:12 am

Miracles wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:40 pm
IIRC Toriyama was the one who rewrote BoG's script from TOEI and wrote the entire script of Broly which Nagamine stated they kept intact. Toriyama is the man with the plan for DB. I do not want Potafueer arc levels of fail or GT. Make no mistake, I believe Toyotaro should stay. He has talent but it's obvious he isn't great. I think people's expectations are too high as he is learning and growing in the business.
That's not at all what I heard.

Yes, Toriyama was brought in while BOG was still in development, but he didn't rewrite the script, he worked with the writers at Toei to rework the story.

Broly, I'm pretty sure the account we heard is he turned in a roughly 3-hour first draft script, and then that was worked on by actual screenwriters to turn it into a usable movie script.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:18 am

Brojack wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:05 am

Vegeta was hardly anything like Raditz and the only comparison between Frieza and King Piccolo was a similar motivation. In either of those cases though the latter villain was drastically better.
Raditz & Vegeta were both condescending assholes that underestimated their opponent, toyed w/ them, constantly boasted about how great their strength was in comparison to ppl like Goku.

Freeza & King Piccolo both had the same world domination motivation & eternal youth wish.

They are as much 'pale imitations' as Moro is to Freeza, Cell, & Buu if you wanted to make such type of comparisons.
He was a wrinkly old fossil who seeks and uses the Dragon Balls to regain his youth but even old kicked Gokus ass...just like King Piccolo.

He travels to Namek with the desire of seeking the Dragon Balls and eventually destroys the planet and it's people...just like Frieza. He leads a bunch of minions as they travel throughout and terrorise the universe... just like Frieza. He heads to Earth where said minions fight the Z Fighter scrubs before fighting Goku and Vegeta.... just like Frieza.

He absorbs energy to become stronger...just like Cell.

He's a villain who destroyed countless planets, fought the Kai, was "stopped" by Grand Kai, was confined for millions of years before being released....just like Buu.

He's a powerful anthropomorphic animal that's been around for millions of years...just like Beerus.

He has just other better characters traits rolled into one boring package.
Travelling to Namek to obtain Dragon Balls to regain his former power & eating the planet.

Absorbs ki & life force energy directly, unlike Cell who literally eats ppl.

Unlike Buu, he was actually stopped by Grand Kai & imprisoned. Buu wasn't stopped by Grand Kai... Buu absorbed him, then Bibidi sealed him.

The Beerus one, I'm not even going to entertain the hilarity of this reach.

I don't disagree there are similarities in traits & backstories, but he is definitely different enough from them. No more than Vegeta to Raditz, or Freeza to Piccolo, or Goku Black to Turles, or Jiren to Hit. I'm sure there are more if you reach hard enough. This is the way DB has always typically been operating, building upon similar character archetypes & roles. It's hardly anything new, but the formula still seems to work as well as ever given a lot of fans online seem to like him.

Also, I would highly recommend you wait until the arc is over to give such an opinion about Moro. We still haven't seen what he's fully capable of or where the course of this arc will take him.
It would have been interesting 8 years ago. Now he's just yet another anthropomorphic animal from a series that gave a cat, a mouse, a fox, a elephant, a rabbit, a trio of dogs and a bear.

It's just the same thing again except this time it's a goat. He even looks worse now than before, when he was sporting the homeless bum look he at least somewhat different. Now he couldn't look more generic.
"Anthropomorphic animal therefore it's not interesting" What a brilliant critique. Still looks better than any version of Buu tho.
And what is so interesting about it? Like practically every other antagonist that has a crew beneath him, he doesn't give the slightest shit about them. He finds them useless and would gladly kill them at a moment's notice and surely will do.

Typical bad guy will kill his minions to show how bad of a guy he is. Something we saw with Vegeta, Lord Slug, Frieza, Bojack, Hearts, Mechikabura etc. It's just the same thing as always.

What actually would of been different would have been if he actually valued his minions but no it's always the same thing.

What else was so interesting about his personality? That he's so evil he'd kill a young Namek? Because Frieza actually did that already. That's he arrogant and cocky, sure that he'll defeat the good guys? Like every single antagonist.

He's awful, he's not charismatic like Frieza, he's not mysterious like Cell, he's not comical like Buu, he's not part of the series lore and history like Beerus, he doesn't have interesting techniques like Hit, he's not so two shaded like Zamasu, he's not cool or bad ass or imposing like Jiren or Broly.

He has nothing going for him at all. He's just like Lord Slug or Bojack. A forgettable basic villain that Toriyama had little to no involvement with.
I'm not here to defend Moro. I don't find any particular pleasure in seeing him either overall. If you don't like him, I don't blame you. All I said is that he is better than Kid Buu, & not any other particular characters.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:22 am

Dbzk1999 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:38 am
words
I'm pretty sure I did a decent job of explaining why Anime Jiren's character doesn't work. He spends too much time doing nothing, and when he does anything it's clear he's holding back for some unexplained reason. Anime Jiren is stronger than time, after all (whatever the heck that means). Manga Jiren is treated as just another warrior and isn't many leagues beyond everyone else in the tournament.

The anime fails Jiren because it has to have a certain number of episodes per season. So they bloat the story, and in doing so Jiren does things that doesn't fit his character. Jiren didn't do shit in the 34 (out of a total of 54) episodes of the ToP that I could stomach. Since the manga has no such restriction, Jiren's growth was consistent.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Brojack » Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:15 am

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:43 am
And you know what?? All of this is 100% subjective and 100% your own opinion.
That's generally how a forum works...
He has more personality than Jiren and Kid Buu taken together (as you claim them to have more than Moro) that one is not simply subjective.
Which isn't saying much. Kid Buu's entire personality was that he was crazy and he laughed a lot, he only even appeared for 9 short chapters. Jiren was also a shit character as well but he was meant to be devoid of personality, he didn't even speak all that much, that was kind of the point. He was the Ivan Drago of Dragon Ball.

Moro is actually meant to have a personality and it's about as deep as a generic DBZ 90's movie villain.
Moro does have an interesting design in my opinion. Since it is based on real world abrahamic myths and fables.
It's just a talking humanoid goat. It's not that deep, it's yet another anthropomorphic animal in the same series that gave us a whole bunch of other powerful anthropomorphic animals. It's not symbolic, it's not interesting, it's the same lazy idea yet again.

A scrawny old ancient being who made a wish and regained a youthful muscular appearance, a complete copy of literally what has just been done with Mechikabura.
A random stereotypical Alien. That’s somehow stronger than a God of Destruction (WTF! That’s the WORST form of writing ever!). Moro is an Ancient Goat Wizard, with exceptionally strong magical capabilities.
What difference does that make? There was a whole bunch of random stereotypical aliens stronger than Frieza, Cell a being made of the strongest beings in the universe and Buu an ancient demonic genie...but it's so farfetched that one could be stronger than Beerus?

All Moro's magic boils down to is that he absorbs energy, an ability that doesn't seem anything remotely like magic as it's just a glorified version of what Android 19 and 20 could do. It's not something unique like Hits ability, it's just the same ability portrayed differently. Instead of having to make contact to absorb energy he can do it without making contact.
One who is evil to the core, actually EATS planets, and evolves along the way from old to young again and beyond. Rather than Jiren’s static, unchanging, fixed power level.
Which again is just the same old thing as before. Every damn villain is evil to the core, that's all you ever get. They're evil from the introduction and that's all there is to it.

King Piccolo was evil to the core and evolved from old to young again. Lord Slug was evil to the core and evolved from old to young again. Mechikabura was evil to the core and evolved from old to young again.

By that regard, Jiren who was a technically a superhero but also a scumbag and didn't have an endless amount of forms was actually different for once.
Moro has a FAR better story and character than Jiren in my opinion. This negativity by people like you really needs to stop.
No, people like you need to stop accepting such crap from this series. Both characters were garbage. You're trying to make him sound more deep and interesting than he is.

He's neither of those things. He is yet another talking animal antagonist, who is just straight evil, who was after the Dragon Balls so that he could regain his youth, can absorb energy and whose motivation just boils down to destroying planets. Which we've had over and over and over again.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:40 am

Kinokima wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:56 pm
Personally I think Jiren is a lot worse than Moro. Just a boring overpowered character. There is nothing to him.
Jiren is a broken soul searching for meaning who hedges his bets to a false god in 'power' and solitude. He's relatable. Moro doesn't seem to have anything to him. Thirteen 45-page chapters later.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Brojack » Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:58 am

Rakurai wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:18 am
Raditz & Vegeta were both condescending assholes that underestimated their opponent, toyed w/ them, constantly boasted about how great their strength was in comparison to ppl like Goku.
So...like every villain in Dragon Ball ever....
Freeza & King Piccolo both had the same world domination motivation & eternal youth wish.
That's not even true. King Piccolo wanted to rule the people Earth. Frieza conquered planets and wiped people out as part of a large organisation. King Piccolo never wished for eternal youth, he wished to regain his youth whereas Frieza wanted immortality.
They are as much 'pale imitations' as Moro is to Freeza, Cell, & Buu if you wanted to make such type of comparisons.
No that's nothing alike at all. Frieza is a completely different character from King Piccolo, the way he ties into the series, his status, his appearance, his abilities, the way he transformed, the way he converses with people, the way he treats his own minions etc. The only worthwhile comparison is they both wanted the Dragon Balls.

Everything Moro is is taken from another character. From being a wizard like Babidi, to a talking animal like Beerus, to killing his own allies like Frieza, to wanting to regain his youth like King Piccolo...there isn't one unique thing that the character has going for him.

At a push you could say "Well he eats planets" which still only boils down to him absorbing energy and growing stronger from it just like Cell to a lesser scale.
Travelling to Namek to obtain Dragon Balls to regain his former power & eating the planet.
Eating the planet which then destroyed the planet....just like Frieza.
Absorbs ki & life force energy directly, unlike Cell who literally eats ppl.
So again, one absorbs energy directly from people to grow stronger and the other absorbs energy indirectly from people to grow stronger. Wow so unique and fresh.
Unlike Buu, he was actually stopped by Grand Kai & imprisoned. Buu wasn't stopped by Grand Kai... Buu absorbed him, then Bibidi sealed him.
Which boils down to the exact same thing. Grand Kai made a sacrifice which ultimately resulted in Moro being confined for millions of years and Grand Kai made a sacrifice which ultimately resulted in Buu being sealed for millions of years.
I don't disagree there are similarities in traits & backstories, but he is definitely different enough from them. No more than Vegeta to Raditz, or Freeza to Piccolo, or Goku Black to Turles, or Jiren to Hit. I'm sure there are more if you reach hard enough.
It's nothing like those. You compare Raditz and Vegeta merely because they are Saiyans but otherwise are nothing alike. You compare Hit to Jiren because they were both Tournament antagonists but otherwise are nothing alike.

You compare Goku Black and Turles because they both have Gokus face otherwise they are nothing alike as one is just a generic Saiyan who looks like Goku while the other was an apprentice Supreme Kai with a hatred towards mortals who stole Goku's body leading to that character having a mystery surrounding him for months.
Also, I would highly recommend you wait until the arc is over to give such an opinion about Moro.
I shouldn't have to. The saga has been going on for over a year. The story is at a point where it seems to be in its final act where the main battles will soon be starting and there's nothing to be excited for because the character is terrible.

Frieza was a good character from the start. Not a crap one that only became good when Goku fought him.
"Anthropomorphic animal therefore it's not interesting" What a brilliant critique. Still looks better than any version of Buu tho.
It's the only critique that's needed because it shows how unoriginal it is. Dragon Ball Super introduced many powerful anthropomorphic animal characters and now Moro is yet another one except it's just a different animal.

So what next? We gonna get a Horse? A Crocodile? A Turtle?

No his design wasn't nearly as good as Buu. Buu actually had a unique design which was nothing like previous antagonists and defied expectations. Moro is just the same thing again. An old wrinkly fossil in a cloak.

Image

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I'm not here to defend Moro. I don't find any particular pleasure in seeing him either overall. If you don't like him, I don't blame you. All I said is that he is better than Kid Buu, & not any other particular characters.
Which again isn't saying much when Kid Buu was a final boss who appeared in half a volume of manga and was a follow up to the other incarnations of Buu that did have more personality.

Whereas there's only been the one Moro who has appeared more and is still awful.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:59 am

wolflonnie wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:07 am
On a side note, I don't think Hearts killed Zamasu to show how bad he is -- he was simply using Zamasu who had completely different ideals to him, but I reckon he didn't kill other minions.
Yeah, pretty much. He wanted to be the Ultimate Godslayer and Zamasu ended up being his first God victim. Both of them knew they couldn't trust one another (Zamasu was also using Hearts as a mere tool), it was just a matter of who would strike first. Unfortunately for Zamasu, it was Hearts.

We can infer Hearts had a good relationship with his other minions, or at least with Lagss, who was described as very loyal to him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:06 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:40 am
Kinokima wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:56 pm
Personally I think Jiren is a lot worse than Moro. Just a boring overpowered character. There is nothing to him.
Jiren is a broken soul searching for meaning who hedges his bets to a false god in 'power' and solitude. He's relatable. Moro doesn't seem to have anything to him. Thirteen 45-page chapters later.
Since when does a villain have to be relatable? You know in real life not every bad person has a tragic back story.


And if you are talking about anime Jiren shoving a “sad backstory” towards the end of a super long arc is hardly what I call good writing.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:27 am

Rakurai wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:38 pm
He was shown 'eating' an entire planet in his first appearance, the flashback of him fighting against Grand Kaioshin. That is, he absorbed the life out of it & simply ate its energy he collected.
Just saw it. He just eats the life energy of the planet destroyed. I mean, it's kinda cool, especially by Dragon Ball standards, it's different and unique. Not Unicron/Galactus-tier of cool, though.
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:12 pm
Dragon Ball seems to be in a similar situation where, what the story needs, is constantly being pulled back by what the series has come to mean and how everyone expects it to stick to its iconography.
The last thing Dragon Ball needs is to stick to its iconography forever. If it didn't have potential to be something more or to do something else, then yeah, alright, just keep doing what will definitely work. But this is not the case at all and thankfully we have more than one evidence showing that. The "main series" needs a revamp, little by little of course, but it needs.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Kinokima » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:41 am

I don’t think the fandom expects Dragon Ball to stick to its iconography and not move forward. The problem is that seems to be what the people in charge think.

Then again looking at what sells perhaps that is what the fandom wants. The fandom after all is a bit larger than people who discuss things on here are on Twitter. And I think there are a substantial group of people who are Dragon Ball fans who are just in it for the fights and power ups.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:57 am

Not every villain needs to be relatable. Not every villain needs to be unrelatable. Not every villain needs to be explained. Not every villain needs to go unexplained. Not every villain needs to be succinct. Not every villain needs to be verbose.

The world is big enough for your Emperor Palpatines and Rita Repulsas, while also having your Anton Chigurhs and Commoduses. As long as the villain fits what the author is doing, there is no right or wrong way to do them.

Moro has taken a backseat for like 6 chapters now, and is clearly being portrayed as mysterious. We know nothing about what he wants. That isn't a problem, since that's clearly intentional on the author's part. Stop thinking about what you'd like the character to be and start thinking about what the author is going for and if the author is succeeding at it or not. This is the framework all of my critiques are built around.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:21 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:12 am
Miracles wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:40 pm
IIRC Toriyama was the one who rewrote BoG's script from TOEI and wrote the entire script of Broly which Nagamine stated they kept intact. Toriyama is the man with the plan for DB. I do not want Potafueer arc levels of fail or GT. Make no mistake, I believe Toyotaro should stay. He has talent but it's obvious he isn't great. I think people's expectations are too high as he is learning and growing in the business.
That's not at all what I heard.

Yes, Toriyama was brought in while BOG was still in development, but he didn't rewrite the script, he worked with the writers at Toei to rework the story.

Broly, I'm pretty sure the account we heard is he turned in a roughly 3-hour first draft script, and then that was worked on by actual screenwriters to turn it into a usable movie script.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Brojack » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:25 pm

TKA wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:57 am
Moro has taken a backseat for like 6 chapters now, and is clearly being portrayed as mysterious.
But he's not mysterious. There's no mystery surrounding him at all.
We know nothing about what he wants.
He wants to eat planets. That's the gimmick of the character. It's no deeper than that.
Kinokima wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:41 am
Then again looking at what sells perhaps that is what the fandom wants. The fandom after all is a bit larger than people who discuss things on here are on Twitter. And I think there are a substantial group of people who are Dragon Ball fans who are just in it for the fights and power ups.
The problem is that fans standards for this series have dropped considerably in recent years to the point that people will just happily accept an arc like this despite how bad it is.

Battle of Gods, Resurrection F and Broly are all mediocre movies at best with a paper thin story. Broly was admittedly entertaining purely because of the animation but that's the only reason it gets praise. If it looked no better than the other movies it wouldn't be considered any better.

Dragon Ball Super was so downright bad for the first 40 episodes and three Sagas that when it actually picked up it was enough to make fans happy with it despite it still not being any good.

Between all the stories revolving around Beerus, Golden Frieza, Hit, Goku Black, Jiren, Broly and Moro. One, just a mere one of them has something that resembles an half decent story and that's the one with Goku Black which still wasn't that great.

The stories for the others are so downright awful it truly boggles the mind how people can accept it. The Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime is also not good.

The only good thing coming out of this franchise right now is the games.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:49 pm

Brojack wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:25 pm
The only good thing coming out of this franchise right now is the games.
Great. If you feel that way, please move on. You've made your point.

Ultimately, the arc is not over. Harshly criticizing something when you don't have all the information just makes you look foolish. In the case of the DBS manga, we see complaints like this month after month, and despite that many of these complaints end up being off the mark, very few people admit they were wrong, or at the very least, too hasty. In theory, we should be here as fans talking about something that we like. If you only like the games, I have just the place for you.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Brojack » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:37 pm

batistabus wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 3:49 pm
Great. If you feel that way, please move on. You've made your point.
No, this is a forum, not a fan club.
Ultimately, the arc is not over. Harshly criticizing something when you don't have all the information just makes you look foolish.
This is exactly what I mean by how fans nowadays just easily accept anything. The entire arc has been terrible for over a year. It doesn't make an ounce of difference that we might get more information. It should never be terrible in the first place.

If you watch a two hour movie and its first hour and a half are terrible...then it's a terrible movie. Whatever it is they might come out with won't stop what we've had so far from being bad.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Jan 31, 2020 5:46 pm

Moro's plans aren't fully revealed. He has some mystery left.
Last edited by Miracles on Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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