"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Lionel]

You have a few examples of seemingly non power related teamwork appearing to contribute to the defeat of a stronger opponent. Puar and Upa handled Dracula Man through exploiting weakness tropes regarding vampires. In addition, I think the Pride Troopers were starting to get the upperhand against Kale due to predictable movements and stamina loss in the manga.

It's rare but the precedent does exist and could be built upon if Toyotaro/Toriyama wanted to.

[LoganForkHands73]

So we're not gonna discuss the lack of Buu in the second half of this arc? Do you guys really not care about Buu?

I was hoping for him to came back in this arc but it seems that Merus will be the one to do something outside of Goku/Vegeta
But Merus can't fight so what if Buu absorbs him to help?

No bullshit, this is so smart, I would be well down for this twist. The two Chekhov's gunmen merging together in the end. Considering that this arc has made a big deal out of referencing Buu's semi-godlike power from absorbing the Kaioshins in the 1st act, this might not even be that far fetched. Either this happens or Merus does something else to help at the last minute, sacrificing himself in doing so, I'm calling it. But of course they should only provide an opening to net Vegeta the full win, he deserves it more.

[emperior]

Merus will return for sure.
Realistically Buu too should get involved but it’s possible he won’t fight anymore.

If I had to write the arc’s ending myself, I would write Merus’ intervention to be important but he would be stopped by Whis or Daishinkan before taking out Moro for good, then Buu would reappear and immobilize the wounded Moro for Goku and Vegeta to strike the fatal blow.

[Dragon Wukong]

Buu can't really do anything else in this arc. The point of bringing him back was to use the GSK's power to stop Moro, but that power went to Kid Buu. He already got thrashed by Moro, so there's not much else he can do now.

[Noitsnothim]

Merus will return for sure.
Realistically Buu too should get involved but it’s possible he won’t fight anymore.

If I had to write the arc’s ending myself, I would write Merus’ intervention to be important but he would be stopped by Whis or Daishinkan before taking out Moro for good, then Buu would reappear and immobilize the wounded Moro for Goku and Vegeta to strike the fatal blow.

I don't think merus is coming back except as a cameo to watch from the angel realm (Zeno's realm) they really wrote him off in that one panel when he leaves with whis

[Saiga]

I'm sick and tired of Gohan and Piccolo teaming up. Fuck Piccolo man

Nah I wouldn't say that I love Piccolo but man I am tired of them being teamed up now. It's reached to be almost as boring as the Goku and Vegeta team up with how many times they keep glueing them together. Like the latter it was very cool but now it's become overplayed.

I agree, I don't like them being glued to the hip. Especially when this chapter makes them look like equals in strength, which shouldn't be the case at all - Piccolo should be nowhere near Gohan's strength. Makes Gohan feel less important if he's just part of a duo with Piccolo.

[Noitsnothim]

Don't forget that Moro can hack into ones' memories (He did so when Grand Daikaioshin remembered that Goku obliterated his power when he killed Kid Boo with the Spirit Bomb) I think Vegeta is going to be able to do the Kai Kai Matoru and Seal Moro's magic

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Anyone think Moro might get sent back to prison again?

I have a feeling he's going to be defeated but survive. No idea why.

[caire]

I think Vegeta is going to be able to do the Kai Kai Matoru and Seal Moro's magic

That's an interesting thought. That technique was hyped up as the "ace in the hole" but ultimately failed, and the Kai mentioned that it's "far too dangerous to teach anyone else" - maybe a bit of foreshadowing, especially as I do see him having a role in the final fight even if it's just on the sidelines. Plus it involves giving up God magic, and Vegeta did go on his little rant about "stupid god powers" before going to Yardrat. I hope we do see Vegeta's Yardrat techniques as well, but that could be a very unexpected twist if they fail.

[MCDaveG]

I don't know what problem people have with character reactions... People these days are like ''man, they are doing new stuff, they destroyed my childhood because blah blah...'' vs ''man, they are doing the same old stuff, I am bored because bla bla...''

Myself, I did find hilarious No. 18's comment, as everyone is on their edge and she is like: ''Damn, they don't pay us enough money.''
It is stuff like this that made me love the Director's Cut of Battle Of Gods and DB FighterZ, the characters...

I do even understand after ToP, that Roshi went to his old days as he trained himself just for that tournament as the world he loves was at brink of possible destruction and now he is back to enjoying life

People have a problem because Toyotarou himself has a problem of properly writing the characters and has since the manga's inception. Let's take the 18 line yo mentioned, for example. Instead of something new, she's been distilled into a moneygrubbing wretch. And that seems to be her only character trait that keeps being brought up - it's natural fans would get tired of seeing only that and nothing else from her. The same goes for things like Roshi's perversion (which really has no place being a thing in 2020), Boo's sleeping gag, perpetually naive Goku, etc.

Well, that is subjective, but I see your point. I think it was funny tidbit with 18, as she was moneygrubbing wretch in Z last time, which is aeons ago, so it was a nostalgic and funny moment for me.
And Roshi si the guy that I grew up with, thank god, still little sad that his progress from ToP went poof, but I also thought that his line about getting the old habits back towards Kuririn was hilarious.

[Michsi]

I don't know what problem people have with character reactions... People these days are like ''man, they are doing new stuff, they destroyed my childhood because blah blah...'' vs ''man, they are doing the same old stuff, I am bored because bla bla...''

Myself, I did find hilarious No. 18's comment, as everyone is on their edge and she is like: ''Damn, they don't pay us enough money.''
It is stuff like this that made me love the Director's Cut of Battle Of Gods and DB FighterZ, the characters...

I do even understand after ToP, that Roshi went to his old days as he trained himself just for that tournament as the world he loves was at brink of possible destruction and now he is back to enjoying life

People have a problem because Toyotarou himself has a problem of properly writing the characters and has since the manga's inception. Let's take the 18 line yo mentioned, for example. Instead of something new, she's been distilled into a moneygrubbing wretch. And that seems to be her only character trait that keeps being brought up - it's natural fans would get tired of seeing only that and nothing else from her. The same goes for things like Roshi's perversion (which really has no place being a thing in 2020), Boo's sleeping gag, perpetually naive Goku, etc.

Well, that is subjective, but I see your point. I think it was funny tidbit with 18, as she was moneygrubbing wretch in Z last time, which is aeons ago, so it was a nostalgic and funny moment for me.
And Roshi si the guy that I grew up with, thank god, still little sad that his progress from ToP went poof, but I also thought that his line about getting the old habits back towards Kuririn was hilarious.

People conflate the anime and manga in many ways and since the anime tends to overuse certain jokes or tropes, people have knee jerk reactions when they see them in the manga too. I don't know how often 18's focus on money came up in the manga retelling, but I admit I thought of the anime first. Same thing as I've said about Piccolo&Gohan team up - it's the anime that tended to have them joined at the hip and even then, it was only as master/student. Objectively speaking, them going all out and fighting side by side was actually pretty novel.

That Piccolo might be now somewhere closer to Gohan in power is a neat concept that I will entertain for now until a future chapter disproves it.

[MCDaveG]

And I also love how Gohan is using his Demon/Piccolo Gi that he used before.
It makes sense as Piccolo was again his mentor before ToP.

[The Undying]

I liked 18's line. It's funny, totally harmless, totally in-character, and shows how even little reactions like this one can help distinguish specific characters in a group of benevolent heroes trying to save their planet. She doesn't need some groundbreaking "moment" right now if her role in the plot doesn't warrant that.

It's minor commentary either way. This is better than what the anime did where her interactions with 17 were either pointlessly flanderized or consisted of overly emotional, absurdly out-of-character reactions purely for melodramatic fluff.

[Kagari]

And I also love how Gohan is using his Demon/Piccolo Gi that he used before.
It makes sense as Piccolo was again his mentor before ToP.

Definitely don't agree. Going back to the Piccolo outfit just screams "Hey, remember the Cell arc?" instead of continuing Gohan's development of wanting to honor his father. But then, Toyotarou seems to struggle with writing Goku and Gohan's relationship to begin with so...

[Dragon Wukong]

Definitely don't agree. Going back to the Piccolo outfit just screams "Hey, remember the Cell arc?" instead of continuing Gohan's development of wanting to honor his father. But then, Toyotarou seems to struggle with writing Goku and Gohan's relationship to begin with so...

To be fair, now that Goku is alive and well Gohan doesn't really need to wear his gi to honor him. I think going back to Piccolo's gi makes sense at this point, especially given all the emphasis between the ToP and this arc on his teamwork and relationship with Piccolo.

[Tai Lung]

I still don't understand the moro's abilities .. he can absorb energy without a known limit ... unlike the androids, bergamo or yakon ok this can be coherent because it is "magic" but which then we see that Saganbo has a limit on the energy you can receive ... this mean that his limit is above the level of the gods, does anyone find this strange?

[Michsi]

Definitely don't agree. Going back to the Piccolo outfit just screams "Hey, remember the Cell arc?" instead of continuing Gohan's development of wanting to honor his father. But then, Toyotarou seems to struggle with writing Goku and Gohan's relationship to begin with so...

To be fair, now that Goku is alive and well Gohan doesn't really need to wear his gi to honor him. I think going back to Piccolo's gi makes sense at this point, especially given all the emphasis between the ToP and this arc on his teamwork and relationship with Piccolo.

Definitely. Gohan is and always will be Piccolo student first and foremost and the same way Goku keeps wearing the uniform of the Turtle School long after he left it and surpassed his teacher (and had several others teacher afterwards ), Gohan keeps returning to Piccolo's uniform.

I always felt like Gohan going straight to Piccolo to ask for his gi right after he spent a year training with his father was a statement on Gohan's part.

Gohan asking for his father uniform in the Boo arc on the other hand seemed more based on sentimentality and a tribute to him as he thought he would never see him again.

And another thing. Piccolo and Gohan's appearance looks nothing alike, so each of them retain their own individual look , even when standing next to each other. On the flip side, Gohan kinda seems like a watered down copy of Goku when wearing his father's gi.

[Tai Lung]

I liked 18's line. It's funny, totally harmless, totally in-character, and shows how even little reactions like this one can help distinguish specific characters in a group of benevolent heroes trying to save their planet. She doesn't need some groundbreaking "moment" right now if her role in the plot doesn't warrant that.

It's minor commentary either way. This is better than what the anime did where her interactions with 17 were either pointlessly flanderized or consisted of overly emotional, absurdly out-of-character reactions purely for melodramatic fluff.

that is not true ... because that shows the relationship of siblings they have ... does not contradict their personality at any time because in the original manga their relationship was never shown ..
and is coherent that android 18 show indifference with others but is weird to show it with her own family, especially now that lazuli is more human thanks to family life

[Kagari]

Definitely don't agree. Going back to the Piccolo outfit just screams "Hey, remember the Cell arc?" instead of continuing Gohan's development of wanting to honor his father. But then, Toyotarou seems to struggle with writing Goku and Gohan's relationship to begin with so...

To be fair, now that Goku is alive and well Gohan doesn't really need to wear his gi to honor him. I think going back to Piccolo's gi makes sense at this point, especially given all the emphasis between the ToP and this arc on his teamwork and relationship with Piccolo.

Except the anime version emphasized the relationship between Goku and Gohan more than anything else. Sure, Piccolo helped train him but Gohan was still out to prove himself to his dad and reach his heights. The manga version didn't do anything to further either relationship other than saying Piccolo and Gohan trained off screen. There's no value in that to me.

[The Undying]

but is weird to show it with her own family

Too late - the anime already showed this when it had her threatening to end 17's life during the recruitment period. Toei's writers didn't even stop at indifference, they took a pretty straightforward character trait and promptly flanderized it to 11 by regressing her to the point of being downright hostile.

You don't get to write scenes like that and then have her dramatically whine in the very same story arc because her brother chose to resurrect the destroyed universes instead of wishing for a cruise ship. That's inconsistent characterization. It's also incoherent characterization; these are not lines 18 would say, and largely come across as if they were written by someone with zero understanding of Toriyama's sensibilities.

They couldn't even decide what her relationship with 17 was supposed to be. It's absolutely OOC.