"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:25 pm

Liquir wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:56 am
Thank you! That settles it, then. Freeza isn't one to exert himself unnecessarily. The logic that they see themselves as legitimate businessmen is amusing and fits. As for that final line...

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:30 pm

None of this "business" makes sense once we remember that, by the time of Universe 6 saga takes place, there are just twenty eight planets with life if I remember correctly. There is probably even less by now.

So how exactly does this "business" work? They are killing the last few remaining races to sell to whom exactly? And is this really necessary? Because in a scenario like this, the only thing that could make sense is Freeza actually being a good samaritan and helping the remaining races to look for an empty planet instead, and there must be a lot of them now, "the universe is vast, after all" (as per Kanzenshuu summary).



So in the manga Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan has an ice blue color, huh? Slightly interesting.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm

The number of planets with human life thing really is a difficult tidbit. Does anyone remember what chapter that quote comes from? Does it say ningen or does it just say life? It's Shin's knowledge, so he could always be wrong. Even if there are only 28, I wonder how many of them are actually accounted for. What about planets without humans? Would Moro seek those out? Would Freeza? Is a planetoid like Vampa considered a planet with life? Freeza is free to continue his search elsewhere, but it's possible he won't find anything, and he shouldn't be aware of Shin's number anyway.

(Possibly relevant, there are 28 Neko Majin on Earth and 38 Galactic Patrolmen at the time of Jaco's original manga, Merus has 104 "districts", and Jaco has 3...)

Honestly, I couldn't care less if that line is outright ignored, even if it is an "inconsistency". If it was ever extremely blatant that there were more than 28 planets with life, the Elder Kaioshin could just yell at Shin for not being more diligent and it would done with. Even the Great Priest doesn't know everything.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:18 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:30 pm
None of this "business" makes sense once we remember that there are just twenty eight planets with life if I remember correctly. There is probably even less by now. So how exactly does this "business" work? They are killing the last few remaining races to sell to whom exactly?
This isn't the first, nor will it be the last time, Super says one thing only to say the complete opposite later on. Not only is Freeza in the business of selling planets, so were the Saiyans back in the day. I don't see what was the point of that line as a big part of DB is the different alien races, so why say something that not only doesn't line up with past material, but also won't line up with future material ?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:52 pm

batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm
The number of planets with human life thing really is a difficult tidbit. Does anyone remember what chapter that quote comes from? Does it say ningen or does it just say life?
It's mentioned in chapter 30. Vegeta asks Shin how many planets have mortals on them; Shin's response is 28. We can assume he means sapient life, since that's what "ningen" would generally refer to.

With Moro and Boo having destroyed so many planets in the past (Boo is said to have wiped out hundreds in the original manga) and with the Jaco manga mentioning there aren't many planets with intelligent species, there is at least some small precedence here.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:59 pm

batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm
It's Shin's knowledge, so he could always be wrong.
No, he couldn't be wrong. How many planets with and without lives there are is exactly in his area of expertise. Kaioshins are alternatively known as Sozoshins, the Gods of Creation, it's their job, it's what they exist for, so they have to know it. If Kaioshin of East is wrong even about this, then it's high time to get rid of this character for good as he serves absolutely no purpose at all (and arguably he has never served). At this point, even Mister Satan could be said to be more useful than him.
batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm
Honestly, I couldn't care less if that line is outright ignored, even if it is an "inconsistency".
Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:18 pm
Super says one thing only to say the complete opposite later on. Not only is Freeza in the business of selling planets, so were the Saiyans back in the day. I don't see what was the point of that line as a big part of DB is the different alien races, so why say something that not only doesn't line up with past material, but also won't line up with future material ?
If and whenever a piece of information shows up is only to be ignored later on, then it just shows how terrible the management behind all this is (which is then reflected in the work itself...). I can understand ignoring something because there was no advance research before coming up with an information and that something is a contradictory one, but Universe 7 having twenty eight planets with life is somewhat "acceptable". There's no reason to ignore it. What I do want to know is how to reconciliate it with Freeza's "business".

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:40 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:59 pm
batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm
It's Shin's knowledge, so he could always be wrong.
No, he couldn't be wrong. How many planets with and without lives there are is exactly in his area of expertise. Kaioshins are alternatively known as Sozoshins, the Gods of Creation, it's their job, it's what they exist for, so they have to know it. If Kaioshin of East is wrong even about this, then it's high time to get rid of this character for good as he serves absolutely no purpose at all (and arguably he has never served). At this point, even Mister Satan could be said to be more useful than him.
I understand the role of the Kaioshin, and that's neither here nor there. Shin didn't know that Metalmen existed before the Universe 6 tournament. He is a half-baked Kaioshin, and that's putting it generously. I love the guy (he tries his best), and I think his incompetence is both funny and necessary for parts of the story, but he is in no way omniscient. He studies/observes Universe 7 broadly and has plenty of blind spots. It's not entirely his fault...he was thrust into the position prematurely due to Majin Boo.

Still, I think Toriyama views human life in Universe 7 as limited. Maybe there are 28 planets, maybe there are 38, maybe there are 50. Either way, it seems that human life is somewhat rare despite the size of the universe.

The numbering scheme for Freeza's planets muddies things even further, since some of those are way higher than #28 (RoF had #448), unless there are rich aliens out there that simply collect planets devoid of life. Does Shin not count planets under Freeza's control? Is Freeza constantly destroying his own supply? Yardrat showed us that different planets can have different "types", so despite the variety of aliens we've seen, we shouldn't assume that each race gets their own planet.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:54 pm

batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:40 pm
I think Toriyama views human life in Universe 7 as limited. Maybe there are 28 planets, maybe there are 38, maybe there are 50. Either way, it seems that human life is somewhat rare despite the size of the universe.
Like a lot of things in Super, a simple line or change could go a long way in making things better. Instead of being specific, why not just say there are less planets with life on them than before ? leaving the number out keeps the door open for pretty much anything they want to do.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:06 pm

batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:40 pm
Grimlock wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:59 pm
batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:44 pm
It's Shin's knowledge, so he could always be wrong.
No, he couldn't be wrong. How many planets with and without lives there are is exactly in his area of expertise. Kaioshins are alternatively known as Sozoshins, the Gods of Creation, it's their job, it's what they exist for, so they have to know it. If Kaioshin of East is wrong even about this, then it's high time to get rid of this character for good as he serves absolutely no purpose at all (and arguably he has never served). At this point, even Mister Satan could be said to be more useful than him.
I understand the role of the Kaioshin, and that's neither here nor there. Shin didn't know that Metalmen existed before the Universe 6 tournament. He is a half-baked Kaioshin, and that's putting it generously. I love the guy (he tries his best), and I think his incompetence is both funny and necessary for parts of the story, but he is in no way omniscient. He studies/observes Universe 7 broadly and has plenty of blind spots. It's not entirely his fault...he was thrust into the position prematurely due to Majin Boo.

Still, I think Toriyama views human life in Universe 7 as limited. Maybe there are 28 planets, maybe there are 38, maybe there are 50. Either way, it seems that human life is somewhat rare despite the size of the universe. The numbering scheme for Freeza's planets muddy things even further, since some of those are way higher than #28, unless there are rich aliens out there that simply collect planets devoid of life. Yardrat showed us that different planets can have different "types", so despite the variety of aliens we've seen, we shouldn't assume that each race gets their own planet.
I mean they're most likely going to use the Namekian Dragon Balls or Super Dragon Balls to resurrect those who were killed by Moro and his goons which would then cause the resurrection of other planets in U7 with sapient life that were killed by Boo & Freeza (& Beerus) we could potentially see Planet Vegeta return if such a wish was made

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:44 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:06 pm
I mean they're most likely going to use the Namekian Dragon Balls or Super Dragon Balls to resurrect those who were killed by Moro and his goons which would then cause the resurrection of other planets in U7 with sapient life that were killed by Boo & Freeza (& Beerus) we could potentially see Planet Vegeta return if such a wish was made
I assumed they'd use the DBs to undo Moro's mess from this arc, but I hadn't considered that their wish might bring back planets destroyed by Moro in the ancient past. Although, even if this were possible from wording similar to "Bring back everything destroyed by Moro and his prisoners!", it's very likely that it would never be specified, and we'd end up in a similar place where we're wondering if No.17's wish brought back Universes 13-18. How would such a wish bring back planets destroyed by Boo and Freeza?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:28 pm

batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:44 pm
Noitsnothim wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:06 pm
I mean they're most likely going to use the Namekian Dragon Balls or Super Dragon Balls to resurrect those who were killed by Moro and his goons which would then cause the resurrection of other planets in U7 with sapient life that were killed by Boo & Freeza (& Beerus) we could potentially see Planet Vegeta return if such a wish was made
I assumed they'd use the DBs to undo Moro's mess from this arc, but I hadn't considered that their wish might bring back planets destroyed by Moro in the ancient past. Although, even if this were possible from wording similar to "Bring back everything destroyed by Moro and his prisoners!", it's very likely that it would never be specified, and we'd end up in a similar place where we're wondering if No.17's wish brought back Universes 13-18. How would such a wish bring back planets destroyed by Boo and Freeza?
such a wish could bring back those slained by Boo and Freeza only IF the wish was worded like this: "Bring back all those who died throughout our Universe" but that would only happen by accident if it were someone like Krillin who would make the wish lol

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:31 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:30 pm
None of this "business" makes sense once we remember that, by the time of Universe 6 saga takes place, there are just twenty eight planets with life if I remember correctly. There is probably even less by now.

So how exactly does this "business" work? They are killing the last few remaining races to sell to whom exactly? And is this really necessary? Because in a scenario like this, the only thing that could make sense is Freeza actually being a good samaritan and helping the remaining races to look for an empty planet instead, and there must be a lot of them now, "the universe is vast, after all" (as per Kanzenshuu summary).



So in the manga Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan has an ice blue color, huh? Slightly interesting.
"They take possession of the planets, kill all the original inhabitants of the planet, in order to resell them to extraterrestrials who have nowhere to live and are in deep trouble. So it’s business."

So if Freeza expires inhabitants from one planet, then gives it to others who have no world, the cycle of "ningen" life is safely continued.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:02 am

batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:40 pm
but he is in no way omniscient.
He doesn't need to, he just needs to do his job.
batistabus wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:40 pm
He studies/observes Universe 7 broadly and has plenty of blind spots. It's not entirely his fault...he was thrust into the position prematurely due to Majin Boo.
I would agree since originally it was supposed to be five Kaioshins, and the lack of them would overload the existing Kaioshin. However, Dragon Ball Super wants us to think that it's just one Kaioshin per Universe, which means he can't have "blind spots". The entire Universe is under his jurisdiction/supervision, not just a part of it anymore, like it was when there were five Kaioshins. And even then, the currently Universe 7 Kaioshin has the luxury of having another Kaioshin beside him, he's not alone. And if I remember correctly, according to Toriyama's interview, Kaios can also help them in this matter.

That excuse is no longer available to make. Yes, he took the role kinda "prematurely" (there is an information which says the Old Kaioshin was the previous Kaioshin of East before being sealed, which means the currently one took on the job a bit (?) before Majin Buu had appeared), but millennia have passed since then. He had plenty of time to get used to it.
Miracles wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:31 pm
So if Freeza expires inhabitants from one planet, then gives it to others who have no world, the cycle of "ningen" life is safely continued.
What? Why do they have to kill if there are more planets that are empty and most likely suitable for living than those with lives? If they have to kill the very few remaining races I fail to see how life is "safely continued".

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:58 am

Grimlock wrote:
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:02 am
Miracles wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:31 pm
So if Freeza expires inhabitants from one planet, then gives it to others who have no world, the cycle of "ningen" life is safely continued.
What? Why do they have to kill if there are more planets that are empty and most likely suitable for living than those with lives? If they have to kill the very few remaining races I fail to see how life is "safely continued".
The inhabited planets obviously would be more lucrative due to already being livable. To those who don't have one.
Instead of trying to auction off inimical [Shout out to Broly movie] planets. So life on orbs will always be.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by sangofe » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:25 am

I can't wait for DB Super in Full Color! https://www.db-z.com/dragon-ball-super- ... t-gratuit/

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:11 am

First of all: I absolutely love the cover for this volume.
And I am glad we are finally getting the DBS manga in full color. But I don’t agree with their choice of not keeping the normal Super Saiyan color from the full color version of Toriyama’s manga, and I also do not like how they draw everyone with skin highlights when they are transformed/have an aura.
Also, the shading style is different from the old style used in the full color manga - it’s more similar to how it was under Yamamuro in Super, while it actually should be more how it is in DBS Broly.
But I like many other choices such as giving SSG a more intense red color.

As for the two bonus pages: I love them. They are really funny.
Also, I see some people do not get that Freeza doesn’t necessarily exterminate mortals - he subdues them, or actually makes business with them. An example could be the USA: even if they have, or could have, the power to exterminate all the other countries they won’t do it as it would hurt their economy.
So what Freeza does is exterminating the non intelligent alien races to sell those habitable planets to the aliens he makes business with. It’s just that simple. Even Minus shows Bardock killing what seemed like mindless aliens.
Maybe every once and then they may have to kill some species or conquer their planet by force if they don’t need to do business with them.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:48 am

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These 3 pages alone conveyed a much better sense of action than the DBS Manga and this is from PR manga based on an arcade game

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:50 am

I like the colors mostly. Except for SSJ God. The light color Red of Goku’s HAIR is fucking ugly as fuck in this full colored db super manga! It’s way too extreme, in your face, simple, and lazy. It’s simply hideous! It doesn’t bring the serious, and beautiful feel, of the darker, Magenta color from the Anime version of SSJ God! Dark Red (Magenta) Hair... And light, firey Red colored Eyes! That’s the way it should be! Just like in the Anime!

Hair should be Magenta (DARK Red)

Eyes should be LIGHT Red!

Balance folks!😎
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by YuseiFudou » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:51 am

Haven't found this on here while reading, possibly missed it. But what do you guys think Vegeta could possibly obtain that will best Moro in any way? We know what sort of what things Yardrats are capable of, but I'm thinking about what could actually be useful against Moro.

Considering that Vegeta has been absent for a couple of chapters by now and is still over there training, all this hype is being built up to the point that it makes me think that he's most certainly going to come back with something that will definitely give him the edge over Moro. Possibly even defeat Moro and giving him the most sought after "win" that many people want him to have after that stupid Resurrection of F ending.

Then we know that Goku is going up against Moro using Ultra Instinct -Omen-, but if this is still not enough to best Moro, there is always Mastered Ultra Instinct. Assuming that Goku will end up using it (most likely he will), my question would be that IF even Mastered Ultra Instinct is not enough to beat Moro, what could Vegeta learn from the Yardrat that could make a difference here?
I just can't think of what it could be and I'm dying to know! :crazy:

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:04 am

YuseiFudou wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:51 am
Haven't found this on here while reading, possibly missed it. But what do you guys think Vegeta could possibly obtain that will best Moro in any way? We know what sort of what things Yardrats are capable of, but I'm thinking about what could actually be useful against Moro.

Considering that Vegeta has been absent for a couple of chapters by now and is still over there training, all this hype is being built up to the point that it makes me think that he's most certainly going to come back with something that will definitely give him the edge over Moro. Possibly even defeat Moro and giving him the most sought after "win" that many people want him to have after that stupid Resurrection of F ending.

Then we know that Goku is going up against Moro using Ultra Instinct -Omen-, but if this is still not enough to best Moro, there is always Mastered Ultra Instinct. Assuming that Goku will end up using it (most likely he will), my question would be that IF even Mastered Ultra Instinct is not enough to beat Moro, what could Vegeta learn from the Yardrat that could make a difference here?
I just can't think of what it could be and I'm dying to know! :crazy:
At this point, the only logical ability should be immunity to Moro’s magic. So that Moro won’t be able to steal Vegeta’s energy without his consent. If he doesn’t become immune to Moro’s energy stealing ability, all this training he’s been doing would be pretty much useless and a waste of time and effort, since Moro could simply suck it all away from him before Vegeta can go on the offense.
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