"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Mon May 11, 2020 6:12 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:57 am
No outline from Toriyama, no comparisons with Toei and somehow we have an arc with more padding than the Goku vs Freeza!
I think there was too much focus on these random goons, especially the first thief trio from when the arc started. Their chapters could be instead spent on a Moro flashback so we would understand his ambitions more.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Mon May 11, 2020 8:08 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:57 am
Somehow we have an arc with more padding than the Goku vs Freeza!
Things have definitely gone on longer than they should've. I don't think the arc should be over, but we should be at least at the start of Vegeta's fight, if not in the middle of it. At this rate, I can see Goku's fight dragging out till June or even July.
Xeogran wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 6:12 am
I think there was too much focus on these random goons.
I was happy to see the Z fighters get screen time, but not for that long. Things also slowed down significantly after Goku and Vegeta's fight with Moro and him arriving on earth. I think this pacing would be fine for a weekly manga, but waiting months is just killing its momentum.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by ShaggyBlanco » Mon May 11, 2020 9:59 am

I think the Z fighters vs Prisoners fight could have been better if anyone did something actually new, like, why have Yamcha there just to do a Wolf Fang Fist again?
I know people say it would just be fanservice but with 2 months to train couldn't they at least have tried to learn Kaioken or something else?
Well at least Krillin's and Gohan/Piccolo's fights were cool

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Lionel » Mon May 11, 2020 11:35 am

ShaggyBlanco wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 9:59 am
I think the Z fighters vs Prisoners fight could have been better if anyone did something actually new, like, why have Yamcha there just to do a Wolf Fang Fist again?
I know people say it would just be fanservice but with 2 months to train couldn't they at least have tried to learn Kaioken or something else?
Well at least Krillin's and Gohan/Piccolo's fights were cool
That sounds far too sensible and I don't expect it in Dragon Ball. Truthfully, the humans and Piccolo should have been ingraining the Kaioken technique into their minds the moment they arrived at King Kai's. It's not a cog in the Toriyama narrational machine, though, so it's been largely cast aside.

I wish something long-term would come from these fights but that doesn't seem likely too happen. Perhaps we could see Yamcha and Chaozu engaging in more standard fights against henchmen since the Moro arc reestablished the notion in fans' minds.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon May 11, 2020 3:49 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:57 am
Miracles wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 4:00 pm
I truly believe, the arc's premise started off well. Entering with Dai Kai, Galactic Patrol and Merus. I just thought the body [in between] work was sluggish, stalling the plot at times. Now we are at the climax, Toyotaro can make or break this saga with this.

I'm rooting for Toyotaro, for the sake of Dragonball. I really want Moro to succeed.
It is already broken a "good" ending is not gonna make up for the way this arc fizzed out. The middle part is the most important it is the meat of the story.

This was his audition and in my opinion he has already failed miserably. No outline from Toriyama, no comparisons with Toei and somehow we have an arc with more padding than the Goku vs Freeza!
No doubt the body of the story was padded. However, an epic climax with good fights, justifying why Moro needed so much prep time in between could be a big pay off. That would give Toyotaro tax credit because a ferocious fight could vindicate the slow build up for Moro's threat and Goku and Vegeta's much needed training.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Mon May 11, 2020 5:13 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:57 am
It is already broken a "good" ending is not gonna make up for the way this arc fizzed out. The middle part is the most important it is the meat of the story.
The "meat" of the story came before the Earth subplot. That's why all this irrelevant business with Gohan, Piccolo, etc. engaging Moro's fodder goons feels like extraneous material compared to the chapters that preceded it. It's just pointless fluff.

I think there's still room for a compelling climax, provided all of that stuff doesn't continue to interfere with (or, at the very least, doesn't distract from) the underlying conflict going forward. It won't make up for anything, but it can improve.

Let's see what happens first.
Miracles wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 3:49 pm
That would give Toyotaro tax credit because a ferocious fight could vindicate the slow build up for Moro's threat and Goku and Vegeta's much needed training.
I agree that Goku and Vegeta's training was built up and emphasized quite a bit. There's definitely potential for some sort of thematic payoff, even if they ultimately don't succeed on their own.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by JulieYBM » Mon May 11, 2020 7:15 pm

The Earthling fights are definitely shallow. What is the arc about? Gokuu getting one step closer to Migatte no Goku'i and Vegeta atoning for his sins against the Namekians. Those two can be accomplished because they have more clear goals. The stuff with the Earthlings just drags.

Personally, I would have used one of the Polunga wishes to have Nail separate from Piccolo to return to Namek as its greatest defender. I think that would have been a way better sub-plot to fill what the Earthlings have been for.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon May 11, 2020 7:56 pm

The Undying wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:13 pm
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 5:57 am
It is already broken a "good" ending is not gonna make up for the way this arc fizzed out. The middle part is the most important it is the meat of the story.
The "meat" of the story came before the Earth subplot. That's why all this irrelevant business with Gohan, Piccolo, etc. engaging Moro's fodder goons feels like extraneous material compared to the chapters that preceded it. It's just pointless fluff.

I think there's still room for a compelling climax, provided all of that stuff doesn't continue to interfere with (or, at the very least, doesn't distract from) the underlying conflict going forward. It won't make up for anything, but it can improve.

Let's see what happens first.
Miracles wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 3:49 pm
That would give Toyotaro tax credit because a ferocious fight could vindicate the slow build up for Moro's threat and Goku and Vegeta's much needed training.
I agree that Goku and Vegeta's training was built up and emphasized quite a bit. There's definitely potential for some sort of thematic payoff, even if they ultimately don't succeed on their own.
Yeah, I think Goku and Vegeta getting some character theme boost is a given. However, what do you think needs to happen with Moro in this fight? Do you feel his months of absorbing planets has to be justified and something else should come from his character?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Mon May 11, 2020 10:49 pm

Miracles wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 7:56 pm
However, what do you think needs to happen with Moro in this fight? Do you feel his months of absorbing planets has to be justified and something else should come from his character?
I don't expect anything new from Moro's character. He's generic, but effective. He's already obstructing the main characters in ways they're totally unfamiliar with, as he's not just packing raw strength thanks to his months-long planet binge; he's also a cunning strategist with ki absorption and a slew of other weird techniques in one package.

His personality quirks are just sufficient enough to help him stand out, but I think the main point behind Moro's role is this new sort of challenge he provides, and that's okay. He gets the job done as an antagonist.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Tue May 12, 2020 9:31 am

Apparently Toyotaro lost the script for an upcoming chapter? Not that it'll probably be a big deal except for lost work time (unless he has to rush the rewrite), but now we're gonna have a "but what was he originally going to say" situation for one of the chapters (probably the June one).
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Tue May 12, 2020 10:27 am

Alruneia wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:31 am
Apparently Toyotaro lost the script for an upcoming chapter? Not that it'll probably be a big deal except for lost work time (unless he has to rush the rewrite), but now we're gonna have a "but what was he originally going to say" situation for one of the chapters (probably the June one).
Sad :(
Do we know it is about DBS? I translated but he says nothing about DB there.
It sure would be a shame though..

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Tue May 12, 2020 11:11 am

Xeogran wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:27 am
Alruneia wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:31 am
Apparently Toyotaro lost the script for an upcoming chapter? Not that it'll probably be a big deal except for lost work time (unless he has to rush the rewrite), but now we're gonna have a "but what was he originally going to say" situation for one of the chapters (probably the June one).
Sad :(
Do we know it is about DBS? I translated but he says nothing about DB there.
It sure would be a shame though..
I guess it isn't directly stated that it's about Super, so it doesn't necessarily have to be. It seems like the safest assumption to me, though, since he talks about not remembering the lines of dialogue (the "serifu") he wrote and I'm not aware of him writing dialogue for anything else.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Tue May 12, 2020 11:37 am

Alruneia wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:31 am
Apparently Toyotaro lost the script for an upcoming chapter?
That's why it's good to have copies of important files, as a computer crash or just throwing away random papers can end up costing you a lot of time and effort.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by FortuneSSJ » Tue May 12, 2020 2:42 pm

The next chapter get delayed because Toyotaro accidentally deleted the script and not because of Coronavirus would be a surprising plot twist.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by caire » Tue May 12, 2020 5:29 pm

Xeogran wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 3:05 am
So what is the symbol on Moro's belt supposed to mean?
I think it's just an arbitrary symbol. In the interstitial pages for volume 12, we see some members of Moro's gang lined up against a height chart, and if you look closely on the axis then one of the symbols perfectly matches Moro's symbol (it's most clear on Yuzun's, right at the bottom).

https://mobile.twitter.com/DbsHype/stat ... 1106189312

So if anything, it seems to be a number. I don't think it holds any significance.

As for the issues with pacing, I think reading through this arc in its collected format (ie, in the volumes themselves) will actually make for quite satisfying pacing. As others have said, it's just the monthly wait that makes it difficult.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Tue May 12, 2020 8:53 pm

Toyotaro losing script...really sucks for him. Since Dragon Ball isn't all that complicated anyway, I'm sure it'll be fine, and I would be shocked if things got delayed.

As for Moro's belt symbol, all I know is that it represents some kind of "a" sound in the language used by the Galactic Patrol:
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Tue May 12, 2020 9:25 pm

Drafts for this month's chapter are out on dragonball.news now. It looks like the chapter is called Merus' Miscalculation (according to Google Translate anyway...), so I think this chapter is going to take the expected route. It's next month that's going to be interesting, and that's not even taking the lost script business into account.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Tue May 12, 2020 10:03 pm

Alruneia wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:25 pm
Drafts for this month's chapter are out on dragonball.news now. It looks like the chapter is called Merus' Miscalculation (according to Google Translate anyway...), so I think this chapter is going to take the expected route. It's next month that's going to be interesting, and that's not even taking the lost script business into account.
It honestly feels really weird to see Goku powering up in anger while in UI (a technique/state that's achieved by being calm and collected) It's not weird seeing him get this way in the anime but the manga took such a left turn with certain events that it doesn't feel right

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Tue May 12, 2020 10:34 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 10:03 pm
Alruneia wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:25 pm
Drafts for this month's chapter are out on dragonball.news now. It looks like the chapter is called Merus' Miscalculation (according to Google Translate anyway...), so I think this chapter is going to take the expected route. It's next month that's going to be interesting, and that's not even taking the lost script business into account.
It honestly feels really weird to see Goku powering up in anger while in UI (a technique/state that's achieved by being calm and collected) It's not weird seeing him get this way in the anime but the manga took such a left turn with certain events that it doesn't feel right
I don't get why Goku is showing all these emotions while in UI. In any other state you can expect Goku to be like that. Like he's powering up and he's....emotional? I thought it was just a minor fluke but its kinda weird to see Goku getting all angry when he's supposed to be in a calm state of mind. Isn't that kind of defeating the point of UI being a state of being that is unlocked when you are calm? Maybe they're trying to make it seem like Goku's got more comfortable and can express more emotions while using UI or something?

Maybe if he ever gets MUI(Which I'm not too sure of given he hasn't reached it during training with Merus) he'll act all calm, cool and stoic. Given how much MUI is a massive bitch to obtain, I'm not too sure he'll get it . If he does, it'll be by chance.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Tue May 12, 2020 10:43 pm

You guys think Vegeta's gonna show up soon? Like Goku's brawl with Moro is obviously for him to have extra time to train but how long is he gonna be? He ain't my favorite character(Goku, Merus, Whis, Gohan) but I'm hoping he isn't just going to be on Yardrat for like another two chapters only for him to show up at the last possible moment or have a small panel where's he STILL training for that mystery technique that he's been jumping through hurdles to master. The pace of this arc is kinda iffy at times, even though this is my favorite arc I wish certain parts weren't so long.
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