"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Grand Marshal 1]

Spoiler:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYTUOETXsAA ... name=large

Spoiler:

Did Goku just go SSB while in UI Omen?

Spoiler:

Wooww wait a minute

Also hi Noitsnothim, it's been a while mate!

Spoiler:

I think he is trying to power stress Omen like he did with Perfected Blue. Can't be sure. A transformation in Omen seems a bit op/fanservice tbh.

Spoiler:

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I wouldn't be surprised Goku would break his limits after the pounding he gets from Moro to achieve temporary or mastered sylver-hair-form.
I'd say he will, otherwise Goku will basically be completely irrelevant from now till the end of the arc.
But when is that ending? The arc could last till the ending of the year. I honestly don't believe Toyotaro will keep him in the ropes untill then.
The only way to make him relevant again in the meanwhile, is to give him the sylver form.
As Omen appears completely useless against Moro.

That, or, find a way to weaken Moro. I believe that's also a good option. Block his ability to absorb energy and/or find a way to start sapping out of him what he has gathered. I think it would be interesting for a villain to be defeated by their own 'weakness' for once. Because Vegeta will probably play a role to this like that. Not by bringing superior firepower in the table.

And from his extremely powered up Prime form, Moro starts getting weaker and older and in the end is unable to fight. So much so that he withers away.

Lol, that would be funny to have Moro basically get drained. It would certainly make things easier if he simply died of old age once they found a weakness and exploited it, though I'm not sure they'll go that route. Moro will probably have some ancient magic plot armour that he's never used before to quickly turn the tables because plot.

[Zamasu55]

Good news, V-Jump's next issue will release on the 19th next month, 2 days earlier than usual.

MUI mamga Goku is on VJumps's front page. I have a nad feeling about this...

FighterZ is getting him as a playable character this week. Assuming you're right, he won't be able to do anything unless Vegeta found a way to permanently prevent him from absorbing energy. If not, he'd have to fight using long range techniques.

My biggest question at the moment is when did Vegeta find the time to get a change of clothes.

If you were going to do something epic, you'd want to look the part wouldn't you ?

Yeah but in manga style and with torn clothes.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I wouldn't be surprised Goku would break his limits after the pounding he gets from Moro to achieve temporary or mastered sylver-hair-form.
I'd say he will, otherwise Goku will basically be completely irrelevant from now till the end of the arc.
But when is that ending? The arc could last till the ending of the year. I honestly don't believe Toyotaro will keep him in the ropes untill then.
The only way to make him relevant again in the meanwhile, is to give him the sylver form.
As Omen appears completely useless against Moro.

That, or, find a way to weaken Moro. I believe that's also a good option. Block his ability to absorb energy and/or find a way to start sapping out of him what he has gathered. I think it would be interesting for a villain to be defeated by their own 'weakness' for once. Because Vegeta will probably play a role to this like that. Not by bringing superior firepower in the table.

And from his extremely powered up Prime form, Moro starts getting weaker and older and in the end is unable to fight. So much so that he withers away.

Lol, that would be funny to have Moro basically get drained. It would certainly make things easier if he simply died of old age once they found a weakness and exploited it, though I'm not sure they'll go that route. Moro will probably have some ancient magic plot armour that he's never used before to quickly turn the tables because plot.

Probably. But I don't rly think that his whole idea as a villain fits to be defeated like everyone else before him (via a final fight, beam struggle etc.)

We must get creative with how villains die smh...

No more erasure tho lol. We had Zamasu for that.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

That, or, find a way to weaken Moro. I believe that's also a good option. Block his ability to absorb energy and/or find a way to start sapping out of him what he has gathered. I think it would be interesting for a villain to be defeated by their own 'weakness' for once. Because Vegeta will probably play a role to this like that. Not by bringing superior firepower in the table.

And from his extremely powered up Prime form, Moro starts getting weaker and older and in the end is unable to fight. So much so that he withers away.

Lol, that would be funny to have Moro basically get drained. It would certainly make things easier if he simply died of old age once they found a weakness and exploited it, though I'm not sure they'll go that route. Moro will probably have some ancient magic plot armour that he's never used before to quickly turn the tables because plot.

Probably. But I don't rly think that his whole idea as a villain fits to be defeated like everyone else before him (via a final fight, beam struggle etc.)

We must get creative with how villains die smh...

No more erasure tho lol. We had Zamasu for that.

Moro is a villian that always have magical abilities up his sleeve. Anytime Moro finds himself cornered he makes loopholes for himself. Probably has a plan up his sleeve. He's probably saving a bunch of nonsense in his coat to ensure when Goku and Vegeta look like their winning the writers can just have him go"WHOOPS! I'VE PLAYED YOU IDIOTS! I'VE BEEN SAVING (ability he's never used before insert) NOW I HAVE THE UPPER HAND!"

[Grand Marshal 1]

Lol, that would be funny to have Moro basically get drained. It would certainly make things easier if he simply died of old age once they found a weakness and exploited it, though I'm not sure they'll go that route. Moro will probably have some ancient magic plot armour that he's never used before to quickly turn the tables because plot.

Probably. But I don't rly think that his whole idea as a villain fits to be defeated like everyone else before him (via a final fight, beam struggle etc.)

We must get creative with how villains die smh...

No more erasure tho lol. We had Zamasu for that.

Moro is a villian that always have magical abilities up his sleeve. Anytime Moro finds himself cornered he makes loopholes for himself. Probably has a plan up his sleeve. He's probably saving a bunch of nonsense in his coat to ensure when Goku and Vegeta look like their winning the writers can just have him go"WHOOPS! I'VE PLAYED YOU IDIOTS! I'VE BEEN SAVING (ability he's never used before insert) NOW I HAVE THE UPPER HAND!"

Although technically speaking a villain with many hax is interesting, I think that they will make some people view Moro as less of the good enemy he was when the Arc began. You know, be strategic but don't force it.

I am not sure if I remember correctly, but his motivation on not killing Goku and Vegeta on Namek was idiotic.

They were meant to give him more power, yet they remained far away and he became this strong without them being around. I think this will start to have some plot holes.

[Mister_Popo]

I wouldn't be surprised Goku would break his limits after the pounding he gets from Moro to achieve temporary or mastered sylver-hair-form.
I'd say he will, otherwise Goku will basically be completely irrelevant from now till the end of the arc.
But when is that ending? The arc could last till the ending of the year. I honestly don't believe Toyotaro will keep him in the ropes untill then.
The only way to make him relevant again in the meanwhile, is to give him the sylver form.
As Omen appears completely useless against Moro.

That, or, find a way to weaken Moro. I believe that's also a good option. Block his ability to absorb energy and/or find a way to start sapping out of him what he has gathered. I think it would be interesting for a villain to be defeated by their own 'weakness' for once. Because Vegeta will probably play a role to this like that. Not by bringing superior firepower in the table.

And from his extremely powered up Prime form, Moro starts getting weaker and older and in the end is unable to fight. So much so that he withers away.

It would be intresting if the writers did explore other domains or ways of fighting than 'who has the biggest muscle'.
I fully agree.
But we have seen that in most cases it's not applied that way in DB.
For instance UI (Omen) originally in the TOP manga was intended as a technique (more so than in the anime), but look now how Goku is powering up in the form, it's like he's in SSJ3.
Same with Moro, in the first battle he mostly used his magic (which should be his strongest asset), but now he has become an insane powerhouse with muscle that would make even Jiren jealous.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I wouldn't be surprised Goku would break his limits after the pounding he gets from Moro to achieve temporary or mastered sylver-hair-form.
I'd say he will, otherwise Goku will basically be completely irrelevant from now till the end of the arc.
But when is that ending? The arc could last till the ending of the year. I honestly don't believe Toyotaro will keep him in the ropes untill then.
The only way to make him relevant again in the meanwhile, is to give him the sylver form.
As Omen appears completely useless against Moro.

That, or, find a way to weaken Moro. I believe that's also a good option. Block his ability to absorb energy and/or find a way to start sapping out of him what he has gathered. I think it would be interesting for a villain to be defeated by their own 'weakness' for once. Because Vegeta will probably play a role to this like that. Not by bringing superior firepower in the table.

And from his extremely powered up Prime form, Moro starts getting weaker and older and in the end is unable to fight. So much so that he withers away.

It would be intresting if the writers did explore other domains or ways of fighting than 'who has the biggest muscle'.
I fully agree.
But we have seen that in most cases it's not applied that way.
For instance UI (Omen) originally in the TOP manga was intended as a technique (more so than in the anime), but look now how Goku is powering up in the form, it's like he's in SSJ3.

Yes.

Both the anime and the Manga had a good build-up to Ultra Instinct

The Manga may have presented it a little better as a technique, but the anime never really contradicted its nature as a technique either.

Now the Manga throws dirt at what it had built by making Goku power up in Omen???

The anime version stands at the top for me now. It felt natural, with its weaknesses and Jiren getting weak enough so Freeza can fight him kept the plot consistent on Goku not getting an absolute power up (he kinda did, but not in a Battle of Gods or Resurrection F fashion).

[Kinokima]

Why couldn’t they let Vegeta fight in his Yardrat outfit. Such a disappointment

[Mister_Popo]

That, or, find a way to weaken Moro. I believe that's also a good option. Block his ability to absorb energy and/or find a way to start sapping out of him what he has gathered. I think it would be interesting for a villain to be defeated by their own 'weakness' for once. Because Vegeta will probably play a role to this like that. Not by bringing superior firepower in the table.

And from his extremely powered up Prime form, Moro starts getting weaker and older and in the end is unable to fight. So much so that he withers away.

It would be intresting if the writers did explore other domains or ways of fighting than 'who has the biggest muscle'.
I fully agree.
But we have seen that in most cases it's not applied that way.
For instance UI (Omen) originally in the TOP manga was intended as a technique (more so than in the anime), but look now how Goku is powering up in the form, it's like he's in SSJ3.

Yes.

Both the anime and the Manga had a good build-up to Ultra Instinct

The Manga may have presented it a little better as a technique, but the anime never really contradicted its nature as a technique either.

Now the Manga throws dirt at what it had built by making Goku power up in Omen???

The anime version stands at the top for me now. It felt natural, with its weaknesses and Jiren getting weak enough so Freeza can fight him kept the plot consistent on Goku not getting an absolute power up (he kinda did, but not in a Battle of Gods or Resurrection F fashion).

Another great exemple of this was Zamasu. He started of as this unclassic tactical villain that didn't seem so strong, but he ended up challenging Vegetto Blue, in the anime which is within the realm of the unimaginary. If other features like tactics or techniques are introduced in DB, it still ends up going along with (much) higher power levels at the end.
What Vegeta is learning may seem more like a technique at first hand, but i wouldn't be surprised the training at Yardrat affected his power level as well in quite a severe way. His first battle on Yardrat already suggested this.

[Grand Marshal 1]

It would be intresting if the writers did explore other domains or ways of fighting than 'who has the biggest muscle'.
I fully agree.
But we have seen that in most cases it's not applied that way.
For instance UI (Omen) originally in the TOP manga was intended as a technique (more so than in the anime), but look now how Goku is powering up in the form, it's like he's in SSJ3.

Yes.

Both the anime and the Manga had a good build-up to Ultra Instinct

The Manga may have presented it a little better as a technique, but the anime never really contradicted its nature as a technique either.

Now the Manga throws dirt at what it had built by making Goku power up in Omen???

The anime version stands at the top for me now. It felt natural, with its weaknesses and Jiren getting weak enough so Freeza can fight him kept the plot consistent on Goku not getting an absolute power up (he kinda did, but not in a Battle of Gods or Resurrection F fashion).

Another great exemple of this was Zamasu. He started of as this unclassic tactical villain that didn't seem so strong, but he ended up challenging Vegeta Blue, in the anime which is within the realm of the unimaginary. If other features like tactics or techniques are introduced in DB, it still ends up going along with (much) higher power levels at the end.
What Vegeta is learning may seem more like a technique at first hand, but i wouldn't be surprised the training at Yardrat affected his power level as well in quite a severe way. His first battle on Yardrat already suggested this.

I get it. Pretty much,
"You learned the ability but you must be strong enough to use it" shenanigans.

Which in turn makes you stronger and blah blah, classic fighting. Don't mind me, I rly enjoy DB for the fights, but at this point it gets awfully repetitive.

[Matches Malone]

Based on a new summary, UI Omen was stronger than Moro, maybe even strong enough to take him down, but something went wrong with Goku's training that prevented him from using it longer. In other words, there'll be no need to bring out mastered UI, Goku just needs to find a way to get back into Omen.

[TheNingen]

Omen wasn't stronger than Moro. Moro was stronger the entire time.

I have a feeling that Toyotaro doesn't understand UI at all. The way he writes Goku when he's using it, both based on how expressive and chatty he is, and now just turning UI into an all out brawler form like SSB is supposed to be....it's really turning me off to the manga. Toyo is going for flash and power while sacrificing the ideas behind something, or his surface level writing just isn't interesting.

More and more as the manga goes on, I realize that Toyo cannot write interesting stories or stick to established concepts well at all. I wish Toriyama had picked someone else.

[Grand Marshal 1]

Omen wasn't stronger than Moro. Moro was stronger the entire time.

I have a feeling that Toyotaro doesn't understand UI at all. The way he writes Goku when he's using it, both based on how expressive and chatty he is, and now just turning UI into an all out brawler form like SSB is supposed to be....it's really turning me off to the manga. Toyo is going for flash and power while sacrificing the ideas behind something, or his surface level writing just isn't interesting.

More and more as the manga goes on, I realize that Toyo cannot write interesting stories or stick to established concepts well at all. I wish Toriyama had picked someone else.

Not an experienced author myself, but I believe that Dragon Ball, with all its fights, has left a large territory of ideas out of its concept. You would believe that Toyotaro would be able to be far more creative than this. Moro is a creative villain actually, but the more in-depth the story is, the more it seems like this Arc has basically nothing to offer to the DB mythos.

It doesn't feel as much of a pivotal moment as it should for a main Arc. I don't blame Toyotaro for being bad at his work, but as a customer to the DB franchise, I'm kinda dissapointed.

[Gt91]

vegeta is fighting in

Spoiler:

his SSB form. I wonder if he has a new trasformation.

[Matches Malone]

It's interesting that both Beerus and Whis turned their back on earth, showing just how unstable and unreliable they are.

vegeta is fighting in

Spoiler:

his SSB form. I wonder if he has a new trasformation.

I don't think we're getting a new form, as the main point of Vegeta's training was to learn Ki control and techniques.

[Noitsnothim]

Spoiler:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYTUOETXsAA ... name=large

Spoiler:

Did Goku just go SSB while in UI Omen?

Spoiler:

Wooww wait a minute

Also hi Noitsnothim, it's been a while mate!

Spoiler:

I think he is trying to power stress Omen like he did with Perfected Blue. Can't be sure. A transformation in Omen seems a bit op/fanservice tbh.

Spoiler:

way too long sounds gr8 to hear from you friend!

I think your theory is way better and sounds more right than mine Goku's digging deep into his reserves as UI Omen and he looks more accurate to his anime design

[Mister_Popo]

It's interesting that both Beerus and Whis turned their back on earth, showing just how unstable and unreliable they are.

vegeta is fighting in

Spoiler:

his SSB form. I wonder if he has a new trasformation.

I don't think we're getting a new form, as the main point of Vegeta's training was to learn Ki control and techniques.

He would not have dared to become stronger in the process?

[emperior]

This is beginning to feel more and more like it will truly end up being a filler arc, unfortunately.

I have a hunch that whatever comes next has already been written by Toriyama, and that Goku will get Ultra Instinct and Vegeta something else and that’s why Toyotaro was able to fill in the gaps this way.

The fact that Vegeta will conveniently NEVER use Instant Transmission again is weird. Does it mean that the next time a situation arises that needs both Goku and Vegeta to teleport somewhere, that Vegeta will just grab Goku’s hand again?

I really hope the technique Vegeta has learned and that Toyotaro has been hyping up for 1 years ends up being something really cool AND especially something that won’t just be discarded the next arc or just work on Moro.
Considering how it seems like Toriyama had no plans for Vegeta’s future, besides that he won’t achieve Ultra Instinct, I wouldn’t mind it if Toyotaro, possibly with Toriyama’s help, has come up with something Vegeta-exclusive which will rival Ultra Instinct. And that something may very well be this technique Vegeta will use.

I say this because I am afraid this arc will end up being just kinda filler stuff, and that would diminish my enjoyment of it on later re-reads. It’s already been dragged a lot compared to the other manga’s arcs, and that doesn’t help when re-reading it.

[Grimlock]

So if this statement from the summary I just read is correct: "Yadorats state they are forbidden to use Instant Transmission to go to other planets".

Then we go back to an old question that should have already been answered: why and how the hell there is an Yadorat (and a Tsufurujin) in the Universe 2 team in the Tournament of Power?